Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Rape me baby one more time.
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Sonic CinePlayer chosen to power DVD-playing version of Nintendo's Wii (late 2007)
- Thread starter Alcibiades
- Start date
soundwave05
Member
I would not be surprised if there's another new DS hardware iteration late next year either. Something with built-in flash memory like the Wii has, for game downloading and what not (thus ditching the GBA slot allowing for space saving). Of course Nintendo can then re-charge you to re-buy all your old GB + GBA titles.
Cosmonaut X
Member
The Black Brad Pitt said:
*checks watch*
Took you long enough ;-)
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
soundwave05 said:
That I would like as far as GB titles are concerned since the DS and Ds Lite Hardwares cannot play GB cartridges, but they would need to keep GBA compatibility in HW though.
The reason it needs to be new hardware is simple: Macrovision.
The DVD CCA mandates that all DVD players with composite/S-Video out have Macrovision hardware to **** up the signal so that DVDs can't be recorded on a VCR. I'd bet anything that the current Wii model has no such hardware. There's a real expense with that too, so Nintendo probably opted out of it when finalizing the original design, and are now looking to add it to next year's model because they now think Wii's going to have massive sales-age.
So yeah, it can't be a software upgrade to existing Wiis.
You can certainly argue whether that was a good decision or not, but eh. I could not care less if it had DVD playback or not, personally. I'm not going to wear out a $200+ console playing Disney's library daily for my kid(s). Would much rather wear out a $30 DVD player.
The DVD CCA mandates that all DVD players with composite/S-Video out have Macrovision hardware to **** up the signal so that DVDs can't be recorded on a VCR. I'd bet anything that the current Wii model has no such hardware. There's a real expense with that too, so Nintendo probably opted out of it when finalizing the original design, and are now looking to add it to next year's model because they now think Wii's going to have massive sales-age.
So yeah, it can't be a software upgrade to existing Wiis.
You can certainly argue whether that was a good decision or not, but eh. I could not care less if it had DVD playback or not, personally. I'm not going to wear out a $200+ console playing Disney's library daily for my kid(s). Would much rather wear out a $30 DVD player.
soundwave05
Member
Well since Nintendo is bringing back the DVD functionality in this model, perhaps the PC monitor output they promised earlier on as well will come back in this new version too. I have a question about DVD upconverting though .... if the Wii DVD can upconvert a DVD image to 720p or 1080i, couldn't it do the same with a video game image? It'd be nice to have the whole "can't play GC games with Classic Controller/can't save GC games to internal flash memory" shitfest ironed out while they're at it. If they're going to address one issue, they might as well knock out the other ones too.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
fresquito said:
Digital out is a big deal. For Nintendo.
soundwave05
Member
I think I'm going to buy the white Wii model for this Christmas because I just have to play Zelda ASAP, then sell it next year. By then there should be new colors (hello glossy black) and the confusion over the different models should also be clarified.
Hopefully this whole thing forces Nintendo to at least make digital audio output standard, since it would be rather stupid to have two seperate manufacturing lines for such a miniscule hardware difference. Black casing + digital audio out would be enough for me to dump the regular Wii model.
Hopefully this whole thing forces Nintendo to at least make digital audio output standard, since it would be rather stupid to have two seperate manufacturing lines for such a miniscule hardware difference. Black casing + digital audio out would be enough for me to dump the regular Wii model.
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Its all these damn exams getting in my way.Cosmonaut X said:
my only three complaints with the wii are: no true 5.1 surround sound HUGE - for me. no DVD playback, i have 3 DVDs at my house but it would´ve been nice, and really, how expensive can it be? and the price, $220 would´ve been ideal, but meh, i can live with $250.
still, the games (Zeldaaaa and Mario Galaxy) make me feel less raped
HUGE - for me. no DVD playback, i have 3 DVDs at my house but it would´ve been nice, and really, how expensive can it be? and the price, $220 would´ve been ideal, but meh, i can live with $250.still, the games (Zeldaaaa and Mario Galaxy) make me feel less raped
Alcibiades
Member
interesting... that makes Panajev's idea of paying for the ability later a little complicated, no?zigg said:
maybe sending back Wii's to the factory to install the Macrovision stuff for a fee? not sure how many people would opt for that...
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
zigg said:
Very small modification of the CRTC/Video Encoder Circuit to allow for Macrovision:
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Alcibiades said:
Exactly, if Nintendo saved $0.XX per unit not allowing for Macrovision signal modification in their video encoder chip (which, quite likely, they have not designed in-house but bought it from a third party which manufactures Macrovision enabled chips too) then yes, they would not be allowed to sell DVD playback functionality for the existing Wii.
"This would PISS me off to no end!"
Alcibiades
Member
The fact that it costs anything at all is reason enough to not deal with it IMO. Right now the focus should be on getting as many Wii's out there as possible before the end of the year to ride the momentum, along with a solid Zelda, Wii Sports, and Excite Truck. Everything else is secondary.
Panajev2001a said:
So you know the costs are sub-$1.00, then? Where'd you find this out?
MORE: As of last year, protection royalties for DVDs made up 55% of Macrovision's revenue. Meaning those chips.
Mr. Pointy
Member
Bad Nintendo! Baaaaad! No biscuit for you!
In the last announcement about this Nintendo said this unit was for Japan only just like the Panasonic Gamecube Q. I doubt that's going to change unless the Wii DVD player sells a significant amount of units. And knowing Nintendo, they are going to make these things hard to get in the first place. So I'm not expecting this to be the "replacement" of the current Wii like the DS Lites replaced the original DS.
Do you know what razors are? They're little plastic handles that hold sharp metal blades, used to remove unwanted hair.Cosmonaut X said:
They're a great invention, but if you were to sell one to every customer in the world, you'd practically run yourself right out of business, right? Well that's where the blades come in. They get dull and wear out, and if you're the only one who makes the kind of blades that fit in the handles you sold, then all of your previous customers have to keep coming back to you for replacements, and you'll have work for as long as people have unwanted hair. That's why the blades are important and you need to protect that market. They're where the money is.
But when a customer is buying a new razor, he's mostly looking at the handle. He doesn't care that you'll get his business for the next five years, he's just looking at the handle and a couple spare blades. If your blades are about the same price as the next guy's offering, but one of you has a better/cheaper handle, that's the one he'll get. So if you're smart, you make the best possible handle you can, and give them away practically for free. You can even pay people to take them, as long as it keeps you employed making blades.
Unfortunately, Nintendo doesn't believe this.
Videogames don't get dull with time. And apparently Nintendo doesn't think we get tired of them after we beat them. Nintendo thinks we just dispose of them whenever we see better ones, and that they'll stop getting better very soon. So Nintendo thinks they need to grab hold of as much money as they possibly can, while they still can. They think we want low prices on the handles, and that they can deliver a competitive price simply by cutting corners. A philosophy that has led to them losing two generations of customers, and missing out on billions of dollars.
Now Nintendo is trying again, and they might actually succeed this time, thanks to the creativity and innovation that should rightfully make them the best in this business, and because their biggest competition may have gone a little overboard in trying to make the world's greatest handle. And if they don't fall on their face again this time, then maybe it was a good idea for Nintendo to make a grab for the cash (this time), but we have to wonder if their customer base could be even bigger if they had a more appealing handle.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Alcibiades said:
Oh cut this thing, GCN discs compatibility in itself SERVES NO PURPOSE for the Wii experience and thus it should have been sacked instead of investing money in making it work. In terms of Virtual Console experience you could have handled it with downloads just like you are doing with N64, SNES, NES and other systems' titles... it is not like broadband connected gamers are not downloading 1+ GB worth of demos to their consoles already (things such as distributed delivery methods as well as support for intelligent download resume functionality can help a lot of users and content providers).
Still, sacking GCN discs compatibility would have been a horrible idea.
You gave SCE a good ammo to shut up the complaints about the lack of rumble though, thanks
....
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
AniHawk said:
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Yes it deserved that many lols
Alcibiades
Member
are you serious?Panajev2001a said:Oh cut this thing, GCN discs compatibility in itself SERVES NO PURPOSE for the Wii experience and thus it should have been sacked instead of investing money in making it work. In terms of Virtual Console experience you could have handled it with downloads just like you are doing with N64, SNES, NES and other systems' titles... it is not like broadband connected gamers are not downloading 1+ GB worth of demos to their consoles already (things such as distributed delivery methods as well as support for intelligent download resume functionality can help a lot of users and content providers).
Still, sacking GCN discs compatibility would have been a horrible idea.
You gave SCE a good ammo to shut up the complaints about the lack of rumble though, thanks
...
The amount of people interested in backwards compatibility and rumble is probably more than the amount they figured would pay extra later for DVD movie functions... the reason it's not worth worrying about is because it's not that important when most people own DVD players, and when it's not going to help sell the Wii. If they could have done it for nothing that's one thing, but apparantly it costs money.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
zigg said:
In 2005 they made $203.23 Million of TOTAL revenue:
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=MacroVision&hl=en
55% of that would be: $101.615 Million of total revenue for the whole year.
Almost 20 Million DVD players were sold in 2005 alone if you SIMPLY count PlayStation 2 as the only DVD player sold (and I am quite confident that it was not the only DVD enabled player sold on the market in 2005).
Even if licensing for the DVD Macrovision protection were something like $2.5 a player (guys, IIRC RSX costs SCE about $5-6 of royalties to nVIDIA, to put things into perspective) with PlayStation 2 alone they would have made HALF their TOTAL revenue for the year 2005.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Alcibiades said:
You were not talking about how many people would care, it was not your point.
This was:
Alcibiades said:
.
Alcibiades
Member
ok, you got me, but really, the point was about spending money that most people wouldn't care about...
like I said, if it was free, even if only 1% cared then why not?
but it's not, so why worry when it's not that big an issue (to most, of course)?
like I said, if it was free, even if only 1% cared then why not?
but it's not, so why worry when it's not that big an issue (to most, of course)?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Alcibiades said:
I worry because it is an issue to me
. I might not be the only one, I hope. Still, being "mistreated" by a company is not in my best interest as a "customer". it might be if I owned stocks or were working for Nintendo, but it might be wrong in those cases too... just ask F.I.A.T. dive into the ground in the past till they started to care more about what they gave their customers for their money.
radioheadrule83
Banned
What makes Wii's DVD drive different from - say - a PC DVD drive? Don't those handle region encoding and protection in firmware? Cos you can sure as hell turn it off or circumvent it. And those play movies... as far as I'm aware, there's no Macrovision thingymebob in my PC
I really think this could be a simple firmware tweak. I don't see why they'd go through the trouble of changing the manufacturing process for something which they acknowledge there's little need for these days.
I really think this could be a simple firmware tweak. I don't see why they'd go through the trouble of changing the manufacturing process for something which they acknowledge there's little need for these days.
MrSardonic
The nerdiest nerd of all the nerds in nerdland
i'll get a wii end of 2007 then
Cosmonaut X
Member
MrSardonic said:
...and if it does turn out to be a firmware update?
Cosmonaut X
Member
jarosh said:
I can never tell these days...
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
jarosh said:
Yes, and so ?
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
He has his reasons and so do i.jarosh said:
Nintendo peddling backwards.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
jarosh said:
I am interested to have a cute device (that also plays games if I feel like playing them) to bring around, that is solid and small: the Wii fits the bill even better than PSTwo as far as compactness and perceived solidity (Nintendo systems are usually pretty resistant).
MrSardonic
The nerdiest nerd of all the nerds in nerdland
jarosh said:
i'm not.
Cosmonaut X said:
then I'll get a Wii at the end of 2007.
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
$100-130?Fatghost said:
:lol
yeah well, i'm not asking in a general sense. i realize that some people want the wii to play dvds, that doesn't bother me. i have no interest in damage controlling nintendo's decisions. i'm specifically interested in panajev's answer, since i know he's such a tech head and already has many BETTER options to playback dvds.The Black Brad Pitt said:
okay i guess that makes sense.Panajev2001a said:
Alcibiades
Member
that, or a subtle way to troll... :lolPanajev2001a said:
at this point, I'm thinking Nintendo should have just left this off the table completely...
Cosmonaut X
Member
MrSardonic said:
Eh? If it's a firmware update that extends to systems bought on day one, then I don't see the problem. You would get DVD functionality at the same time, but you'd have a year with the system before DVD playback was implemented.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Alcibiades said:
I am not trolling. Sure, I pay money to buy devices just to mock them...
Bah...
Cosmonaut X
Member
Fatghost said:
Did I say that any firmware update would be given away?