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[Gunstar Ikari]

In hindsight, you can probably look at how much worse Planet Wisp was in Generations than in Colors as a sign that Sega can't keep it together for very long. They managed to fuck up level design concepts that were less than a year old.

 

[Blue-kun]

The funny thing is that most of these previews sound like they actually disliked Generations/Unleashed and Modern Sonic's gameplay as a whole, as opposed to just thinking that Forces itself is the problem.

Instances like "Sonic only needs to be pointing towards a direction to succeed" or complaints that "figuring out how to keep running w/o being interrupted relies on getting stopped several times before you get used to the stages" are pretty hilarious and basically come from people who were never going to like this game in the first place.

And, really, the latter complaint in particular is ridiculous because you can say the same thing to about every Sonic game ever released, even the Mega Drive ones. You're not going to speed through levels if you don't dedicate yourself to learning its design and enemy/barrier placement. The first time you play through them you'll get hit by stuff you couldn't avoid on time and you'll hit rocks and other obstacles placed in order to do just that. It's how Sonic was designed since, I dunno, forever.

Of course, the whole "Sonic only needs to be pointing towards a direction to succeed" is pretty laughable, as well. Because, again, you can also say that about Unleashed and Generations, and those games didn't get half the flak shown above.

Sonic was never a game you play once to be "challenged". There's nothing challenging about the platforming in the original Mega Drive games. They were all incredibly simple games and honestly if you press a direction and just struggle along you'll reach the end of the level without much trouble most of the time. The real fun of any Sonic game is getting better at it, and mastering the levels in order to achieve better times and pull out the whole thing in speedy fashion, mastering whatever techniques the blue blur has at its disposal. If you approach Generations/Unleashed Day Levels with that mind, the stage design is pretty fantastic. See Modern Seaside Hill in Generations, for an example.

So, yeah. I don't see why I should be worried, and for ages now I've known better than to trust game journos in regards to Sonic. We don't see eye to eye, and most of the time the complaints being made just sound totally out of place to someone who actually likes Sonic games, be them new or old.

P.S: Most of these people played the introductory level and are basing the entire game on it, too. It's like assuming the entirety of Sonic Unleashed Day Levels are gonna be as simple as Windmill Island....

 

[RK128]

The funny thing is that most of these previews sound like they actually disliked Generations/Unleashed and Modern Sonic's gameplay as a whole, as opposed to just thinking that Forces itself is the problem.

Instances like "Sonic only needs to be pointing towards a direction to succeed" or complaints that "figuring out how to keep running w/o being interrupted relies on getting stopped several times before you get used to the stages" are pretty hilarious and basically come from people who were never going to like this game in the first place.

And, really, the latter complaint in particular is ridiculous because you can say the same thing to about every Sonic game ever released, even the Genesis ones. You're not going to speed through levels if you don't dedicate yourself to learning its design and enemy/barrier placement. The first time you play through them you'll get hit by stuff you couldn't avoid on time and you'll hit rocks and other obstacles placed in order to do just that. It's how Sonic was designed since, I dunno, forever.

Of course, the whole "Sonic only needs to be pointing towards a direction to succeed" is pretty laughable, as well. Because, again, you can also say that about Unleashed and Generations, and those games didn't get half the flak shown above.

Sonic was never a game you play once to be "challenged". There's nothing challenging about the platforming in the original Mega Drive games. They were all incredibly simple games and honestly if you press a direction and just struggle along you'll reach the end of the level without much trouble most of the time. The real fun of any Sonic game is getting better at it, and mastering the levels in order to achieve better times and pull out the whole thing in speedy fashion, mastering whatever techniques the blue blur has at its disposal. If you approach Generations/Unleashed Day Levels with that mind, the stage design is pretty fantastic. See Modern Seaside Hill in Generations, for an example.

So, yeah. I don't see why I should be worried, and for ages now I've known better than to trust game journos in regards to Sonic. We don't see eye to eye, and most of the time the complaints being made just sound totally out of place to someone who actually likes Sonic games, be them new or old.

P.S: Most of these people played the introductory level and are basing the entire game on it, too. It's like assuming the entirety of Sonic Unleashed Day Levels are gonna be as simple as Windmill Island....

When I used to write a lot for gaming last year, I made my personal promise to treat every game fairly, more so after how much hate Sonic gets from gaming press. I plan on being fair to Mania and Forces when I review them this year.

Regarding the rest of your points, I'm sure later Modern Sonic stages will have more depth. Though I think SEGA/Sonic Team should have picked a later-game stage to show off. This would shut people up about how linear things are.

 

[Suzuki Yu]

I have a theory - and it's completely unsubstantiated mind you - that Sonic Team probably spent a significant amount of time working through prototypes for a new type of 3D Sonic game but were paralysed by the potential negative effects of change/uncertain about quality/forced into something safer by higher ups, and ended up reverting to basically making Generations 2 with not a whole lot of time left on the clock before a desired release window.

this is exactly how i am looking at things for the past couple of months.
actually i can't think of any other possible scenarios.

what i am imagining based on logic/previous statements, team A was working on something completely new just like lost world (from team B) but then it got scrapped completely in favor of something more safe and risk averse specially after multiple failures like lost world & Boom.
from what i can see so far from this game there is no way this is in development for more than roughly two years (i don't believe Izuka's statement in this regard at all)
this is simply not on par with the quality known from Sonic Team during the boost formula period. the level design here is really bad and even some of the assets used and gameplay elements felt rushed!

surely something that we don't know about happen in the past few years.

 

[Gunstar Ikari]

Though I think SEGA/Sonic Team should have picked a later-game stage to show off. This would shut people up about how linear things are.

It wouldn't. People have already made up their minds regarding Boost Sonic and won't be told otherwise.

 

[Spaghetti]

I get the impression Forces when though a very troubled development, not unlike Sonic 06. But thanks to having a winning formula lean on (Modern Sonic), they scrambled together whatever they had done to make something like a Modern Sonic game.

Classic being tossed in and Avatar scream 'Gameplay styles to pad out game when our assets are being limited'. Generations didn't have this problem really, but it's far more evident with Forces I think.

With Avatar being so similar to Modern Sonic, it's clear that Avatar was made to compensate for the lack of Modern Sonic Stages. Classic...was included for the very same reason. To use existing assets to pad out the game.

I hope that using a solid formula would lead to a good game at the very least, but I think they wanted to make an Adventure styled game but forced it into a Modern Sonic game. The whole 'darkness' aspect, vocal themes coming back? Stables from the Dreamcast Era sonics.

I will say this though; I am feeling a creative spark that I felt was missing in Generations and Lost World. This same spark lead to Unleashed and Colors, two of my favorite Sonic's. So, hoping my gut feeling is right and this will be fun.

We're more or less on the same page, but I don't feel as optimistic about Forces as a full package. I see panic, instead of a creative spark. Just a last-ditch effort to salvage several years of development by trying to hit as many of the demographics known to buy Sonic games.

I don't want to write the game off prematurely, but nothing about Forces seems a step beyond Generations, and in some cases looks like regression. The sorta botched 3D Classic Sonic stuff is even more pronounced with Mania releasing in the same year.

 

[ShadiWulf]

the game doesn't look anywhere near as bad as some of these previews are making it out to be. We got direct feed gameplay of all 3 styles from E3 thanks to IGN. Ignoring the avatar gameplay, it's basically Sonic Generations. Avatar gameplay is definitely the most platforming/weapons heavy of the 3 styles though. I see why that might be polarizing to some people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyTzm8WgtlE

 

[The Xtortionist]

At least the soundtrack'll be good.

 

[Xist2inspire]

The funny thing is that most of these previews sound like they actually disliked Generations/Unleashed and Modern Sonic's gameplay as a whole, as opposed to just thinking that Forces itself is the problem.

Instances like "Sonic only needs to be pointing towards a direction to succeed" or complaints that "figuring out how to keep running w/o being interrupted relies on getting stopped several times before you get used to the stages" are pretty hilarious and basically come from people who were never going to like this game in the first place.

And, really, the latter complaint in particular is ridiculous because you can say the same thing to about every Sonic game ever released, even the Mega Drive ones. You're not going to speed through levels if you don't dedicate yourself to learning its design and enemy/barrier placement. The first time you play through them you'll get hit by stuff you couldn't avoid on time and you'll hit rocks and other obstacles placed in order to do just that. It's how Sonic was designed since, I dunno, forever.

Of course, the whole "Sonic only needs to be pointing towards a direction to succeed" is pretty laughable, as well. Because, again, you can also say that about Unleashed and Generations, and those games didn't get half the flak shown above.

Sonic was never a game you play once to be "challenged". There's nothing challenging about the platforming in the original Mega Drive games. They were all incredibly simple games and honestly if you press a direction and just struggle along you'll reach the end of the level without much trouble most of the time. The real fun of any Sonic game is getting better at it, and mastering the levels in order to achieve better times and pull out the whole thing in speedy fashion, mastering whatever techniques the blue blur has at its disposal. If you approach Generations/Unleashed Day Levels with that mind, the stage design is pretty fantastic. See Modern Seaside Hill in Generations, for an example.

So, yeah. I don't see why I should be worried, and for ages now I've known better than to trust game journos in regards to Sonic. We don't see eye to eye, and most of the time the complaints being made just sound totally out of place to someone who actually likes Sonic games, be them new or old.

P.S: Most of these people played the introductory level and are basing the entire game on it, too. It's like assuming the entirety of Sonic Unleashed Day Levels are gonna be as simple as Windmill Island....

I wholeheartedly agree with all of this. What's sad is that the bolded is something that even a lot of Sonic fans tend to overlook.

As for Forces itself, I'm still looking forward to it, but I'm preparing myself for a letdown. I feel like Modern Sonic gameplay is once again going to show enough current quality and future promise to stick around, but the other stuff (Classic Sonic gameplay, OC gameplay, story, aesthetics, music) is going to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth. And since Mania's going to be around to further highlight Forces' flaws, we'll get even more calls to revamp the formula or focus primarily on Classic Sonic.

I'll probably like it (there are only a few Sonic games I flat-out don't like), but I think it'll be an obvious step backwards from Generations, which is disappointing.

 

[Sami+]

At least the soundtrack'll be good.

the pain persists
i cant resist
but thats what it takes
to be infinite

 

[The Xtortionist]

the pain persists
i cant resist
but thats what it takes
to be infinite

Edgy as fuck but it'll make one hell of a boss theme if they use it right.

 

[March of the Crabs]

I just want more Generations style gameplay so I'll take what I can get. Bummer this isn't better than it is though.

 

[Kusagari]

I'm the tallest of mountains
I am the roughest of waves
I'm the toughest of terrors
I am the darkest of days
I'm the last one that's standing
Don't try to stand in my way
'Cause I've been up against better
JUST TAKE A LOOK AT MY FACE

Infinite saving video games.

 

[Labombadog]

Not surprised one bit. Give Sonic to Nintendo.

 

[RK128]

the pain persists
i cant resist
but thats what it takes
to be infinite

I really love the theme honestly. If they use it right, it will be the Metal Gear Rising levels of 'Stupid Rock but God DAMN that fight was amazing! RULES OF NATURE!'.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Yep, time to retire this boost shit. Make Sonic Adventure 3 already Jesus Christ.

Also they've only demoed that first stage and two other small snippets. There's a lot that remains to be seen, so hopefully that will assuage calls to panic just yet.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I dunno why they added the Avatar crap. 3 different stylesisnt what the franchise needed. Generations and Colors are the only good 3D entries and half of those games are 2D.

That said anyone saying you just hold boost to do well in modern sonic games. I got S rank on every stage in Generations (not particularly difficult tbh) and you do need good uniterupted runs through the levels. Level design in those games are good.

Yep, time to retire this boost shit. Make Sonic Adventure 3 already Jesus Christ.

Also they've only demoed that first stage and two other small snippets. There's a lot that remains to be seen, so hopefully that will assuage calls to panic just yet.

Sonic Advdnture is awful. Boost gameplay is way better.

 

[Father_Brain]

I have a theory - and it's completely unsubstantiated mind you - that Sonic Team probably spent a significant amount of time working through prototypes for a new type of 3D Sonic game but were paralysed by the potential negative effects of change/uncertain about quality/forced into something safer by higher ups, and ended up reverting to basically making Generations 2 with not a whole lot of time left on the clock before a desired release window.

I want to give Sonic Team the benefit of the doubt that they would not willingly backslide on a working formula.

This is all too plausible.

 

[Dash Kappei]

Fuck Kevin Robinson tho

 

[Toxi]

Sounds like they somehow regressed on the boost gameplay. I wasn't a huge fan of it in the first place, but that sucks for the many people who did love it.

Also, the custom character stages unsurprisingly sound like complete ass.

Being punished for circumstances you can’t predict, and the constant chore of stopping and starting, remains as tiresome as it did in 2003’s Sonic Heroes. Control is often taken away from you, too, and set pieces are presented through a wildly choppy frame rate. Platformers are at their best when you’re rewarded for tight precision and exploration. Sonic Forces clasps your hand like an overbearing parent and seldom lets go.

This is the only negative quote that strikes me as a bit odds. Like I can get either complaint on its own, but together it feels kinda like the weird perception some people have of the Genesis Sonic games. Is it unfair because you get stopped repeatedly if you treat the game as mindlessly automated and just hold right/forward?

Granted, they've played the game and I haven't, so it probably makes more sense when you've experienced it.

Edit: I see I'm not the only person to bring this up.

 

[nbnt]

The funny thing is that most of these previews sound like they actually disliked Generations/Unleashed and Modern Sonic's gameplay as a whole, as opposed to just thinking that Forces itself is the problem.

Yep, as always with critics and 3D Sonic games. Can't trust any of these impressions.

 

[Deleted member 465307]

Based on the complaints, people aren't complaining about a lack of polish (Switch version aside). Complaints about the playstyles (Avatar gameplay in particular) and the level design point more towards the game's design, rather than glitches and bugs that need to be stamped out. A 2018 delay (even if it was for a full year) would not be enough to make coherent structural changes.

Yes, you're probably right. My hope would be that perhaps a few changes implemented over the course of a year could swing the game's review scores upwards by a few points, but I'm sure that's only wishful thinking.

 

[Rlan]

Main issue is that they've just shown off a single level type (Green Hill City) across all 3 characters, and all 3 character's levels have been super short (1.5 minutes), super linear and incredibly flat.

Classic Sonic's levels look like they're made out of blocks, rather than rolling hills for example. It feels more like one of the bonus levels in Generations, rather than the main one.

 

[Gunstar Ikari]

I dunno why they added the Avatar crap. 3 different stylesisnt what the franchise needed. Generations and Colors are the only good 3D entries and half of those games are 2D.

Padding. Sega cannot and/or is unwilling to give up the resources to make a game that is 100% 3D Sonic and lasts longer than an hour. So you get half-assed gimmicks and awkward 2D gameplay because they're much cheaper to make and inflate playtime.

2D segments are by far the worst parts of the Boost formula. Sonic's floatiness is basically required for 3D gameplay, but feels like shit in 2D. Not to mention the incredibly boring level design that these segments tend to have.

 

[Toxi]

2D segments are by far the worst parts of the Boost formula. Sonic's floatiness is basically required for 3D gameplay, but feels like shit in 2D. Not to mention the incredibly boring level design that these segments tend to have.

The Classic Sonic portion and 2D Modern Sonic sections of Generation's Chemical Plant feel like an artist performing one of his best songs, except 50 years have passed since his glory days and he just finished rehab.

 

[Wildo09]

Pretty sure Sonic Team isn't making Mania though that ruins Eurogamer's joke.
Yeah, the post e3 previews were pretty negative.
Don't remember there being many games with negative previews that ended up amazing. Especially Sonic which is usually the opposite

It does seem like the 4th Boost game everyone told Sonic Team to make instead of something different so there's that.

Maybe they were referring to Puyo Puyo Tetris. I would agree, that game is fantastic.

 

[Joey Jo-Jo Jr]

I'll wait until I try it myself. "Critics" have been trashing 3d Sonic games since Sonic Adventure on Dreamcast.
I loved the Adventure games. Also enjoyed Heroes, Generations and Lost World.
I haven't played the rest.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

That Waypoint preview spends half of the article talking about Mario Odyssey and Kingdom Battle. That's not even fare.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Could someone please explain to me what the hell happened here?

Why does Sonic Team literally refuse to just give the classic Sonic stages the actual classic physics? It was one of the only real issues with Generations so a follow-up should have fixed that.

And more importantly, why did this take six fucking years?

Seriously, they did it. They put out Colors and Generations, two great games with a great foundation for sequels. I mean, the easiest possible option would be to do Generations 2 two to three years after the original, fixing the issues with the original.

Instead, it's six years later and we're getting a game that is basically a lazy version of Generations 2 that takes place in an ugly world.

And my god, it's going to look even worse after Mania releases.

 

[Professor Lexicovermis]

I really love the theme honestly. If they use it right, it will be the Metal Gear Rising levels of 'Stupid Rock but God DAMN that fight was amazing! RULES OF NATURE!'.

Unless Infinite is revealed to be Mr. President somehow, they'll never hit Armstrong levels.

 

[Zalman]

Sonic Forces looks so unfocused to the point where it feels like Sonic Team has no idea where to go and they're just trying everything to see what sticks.

Here's what I would have done: Take the boost gameplay from Colors/Generation and build on it. Have a game entirely focused on improving that experience.

What they did instead, based on the previews, was take it and make it feel worse. At the same time, they're throwing in Classic Sonic because people liked it six years ago. And let's also throw in custom characters because why not?

All these extra elements they're adding are unnecessary, especially now that we have Mania coming out. If they can't do 2D better than Mania (they can't), then leave it out.

And for the first time in a Sonic Team game, even the music doesn't sound that great. The soundtrack might end up being good, but the snippets they've shared so far are a far cry from the quality we usually see in their games - even Lost World had a fantastic soundtrack.

I think the game might still be fun. I enjoyed Generations, and this doesn't seem to be that much different than that. But I can't help but be disappointed every time I see it because it's clear Sonic Team doesn't understand the appeal of its own franchise.

 

[Ferr986]

Could someone please explain to me what the hell happened here?

Why does Sonic Team literally refuse to just give the classic Sonic stages the actual classic physics? It was one of the only real issues with Generations so a follow-up should have fixed that.

And more importantly, why did this take six fucking years?

Seriously, they did it. They put out Colors and Generations, two great games with a great foundation for sequels. I mean, the easiest possible option would be to do Generations 2 two to three years after the original, fixing the issues with the original.

Instead, it's six years later and we're getting a game that is basically a lazy version of Generations 2 that takes place in an ugly world.

And my god, it's going to look even worse after Mania releases.

This game didn't take 6 years, there was Lost World in between.

 

[Not75Drops]

The teams wouldn't be static would they? Didn't the Colours team and some of the Generations team go on to make Lost Word?

I feel like the only reason Generations used the boost formula in the first place is because they wanted the game to be released before the 20th anniversary, and then threw in the Classic Sonic levels to flesh the game out a bit.

But yeah, I'm not too excited for Forces right now. It doesn't help that Sega has been showing the same two levels over and over again since the announcement. It's like after Lost World and to an extent, Boom, Sega got cold feet and told Sonic Team to scrap whatever ideas they had and play it safe with the next title.

I mentioned this in the music thread, but it's nearly August and we still have no date for this. With the holiday being stacked and the tepid impressions, I wonder if Sega will delay this until early next year. They have Mania coming out soon anyway, even though that probably won't make them as much money.

 

[Verder]

okay the infinite theme fucking grew on me.

its way too catchy.

like its super bumping lol

 

[MrBadger]

I'm not expecting my opinions to change on Forces. It looks like a worse Generations that's doubling down on the shitty 2D platforming of Colours, Lost World and modern Gens while looking like a step back from that game in every other regard. It's revisiting the edgy anime stuff from the mid-2000's while also continuing to pander to the retro audience who are getting their fill elsewhere.

Infinite's theme is great though. Both in the catchy sense and the ironic sense

Sonic Team never learn. I'm now convinced that Colours and Generations were flukes.

I don't know how they managed Classic Sonic in Generations. It wasn't what retro fans wanted but as a 2D platformer it was decent and had fun level design. No other Sonic Team games past the 90's have had good 2D platforming, and Forces seems to be continuing that trend.

 

[BassForever]

Yeah some of the complaints read like "boost sonic/generations were never good" which I don't agree with. Everytime I watch gameplay of forces it looks fine as a generations 2 with the nostalgia sucked out and a bland art style that makes everything feel sterile.

If Mania was not a thing I don't think it would get so ravaged, but with Mania being what the older fans have wanted for 20+ years and seemingly being a bettee game it makes the big budget forces look even worse.

 

[13ruce]

Well I am more excited for Sonic Mania than I am for Mario Odyssey.

Sonic Mania is an event. It feels special. Odyssey is just gonna be another great Mario game. Those happen all the time. It's getting old.

Yeah the open playroom Mario 64 like game since Sunshine a decade+ ago (nearly 15 years) it sure is getting old....

By the way also excited for Mania but more so for Odyssey.

 

[RockmanBN]

I'm just disappointed that Modern Sonic is still ~70% 2D. We already get our 2D fill from Classic Sonic. Would have preferred to keep each dimension of platforming with their respective Sonic.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

I'm just disappointed that Modern Sonic is still ~70% 2D. We already get our 2D fill from Classic Sonic. Would have preferred to keep each dimension of platforming with their respective Sonic.

I'm disappointed that Modern Sonic is still ~30% 3D. We've already had our fill over nearly two decades of shitty 3D Sonic games. Would have preferred for 3D Sonic to never have existed at all.

#2Dforlyf

 

[WillyFive]

I'm just disappointed that Modern Sonic is still ~70% 2D. We already get our 2D fill from Classic Sonic. Would have preferred to keep each dimension of platforming with their respective Sonic.

Yeah, it's very frustrating watching gameplay of this game and it being almost entirely 2D. What's even the point when it is also releasing next to Mania?

 

[Pie and Beans]

Amazing to think this is the game they took "extra time" to make "really good". Sonic Team is pretty much done, especially still under Iizuka who has been a disaster for more than a decade.

 

[Stop It]

3D Sonic games based on the "Gotta go fast" principal just don't work for me.

They're almost completely on rails. It's like a QTE sequence only without button prompts. The worst thing is of course that there's a dedicated base insisting that Sonic must be fast paced so completely decimating any gameplay variation. I think critics have gotten sick of the 3D formula.

2D wise the game can match Generations which was pretty good but with a good near half of the game in 3D, it's not going to be Day 1 for me.

Any comparison to Mario is just unfair on the hedgehog.

 

[IronicSonic]

I'm with Blue-kun and RK128.

Also Spaghetti has a good point regards Sonic Forces development.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Padding. Sega cannot and/or is unwilling to give up the resources to make a game that is 100% 3D Sonic and lasts longer than an hour. So you get half-assed gimmicks and awkward 2D gameplay because they're much cheaper to make and inflate playtime.

2D segments are by far the worst parts of the Boost formula. Sonic's floatiness is basically required for 3D gameplay, but feels like shit in 2D. Not to mention the incredibly boring level design that these segments tend to have.

Pretty much, and has been this way since Unleashed. Colours is still something of a weird exception to the rule, though I'd say that's partially because of the lower resolution target (so graphical fidelity is less of a priority, allowing for dev time on other areas), plus the continued use and emphasis of a consistent 2.5D approach. That 2.5D approach has slowly faded with each successive game Sonic Team have put out, making it an explicit aspect of the series that there are two different gameplay styles that have to be catered to.

The sad thing is, with Mania coming out, they actually could cater to the two separately, and ideally, successfully. If they wanted to.

 

[NZerker12]

I can't really take the word of people saying the modern sonic gameplay feels worse after one short level, especially when the last time they played generations was probably 6 years ago.

Its still too early to even make any decisions yet considering we have hardly seen anything from the game.

 

[Piers]

Amazing to think this is the game they took "extra time" to make "really good". Sonic Team is pretty much done, especially still under Iizuka who has been a disaster for more than a decade.

Going by how we're literally seeing more and more detail get added to the stages as time goes by, and how weirdly small Modern Sonic's first stage is, it seems more like the game only entered actual production starting from last year.
Especially with this slide from the Japanese 25th anniversary event...

...supposedly stating that "Sonic Project 2017 begins development" (Granted, anyone that can read this will have a clearer translation) Yipes.

 

[TimmiT]

Yeah some of the complaints read like "boost sonic/generations were never good" which I don't agree with. Everytime I watch gameplay of forces it looks fine as a generations 2 with the nostalgia sucked out and a bland art style that makes everything feel sterile.

Probably worth keeping in mind that the writers of these articles have to play a ton of games and probably haven't played Colours and Generations since their release. Not that that means that their opinion is invalid or anything, but that does mean they're more likely to have their opinion on boost Sonic be determined by how good it is in Forces.

And I don't think the problem in Forces is just a lack of nostalgia and a bland art style. The level design in all of the four levels shown so far have very little meat to them and really just look boring. And it's not even because they're only showing early levels. Colours, Generations, and even Lost World all made a good first impression. Each of those games had way more going on even in their first levels than in any of the Forces levels shown so far.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Going by how we're literally seeing more and more detail get added to the stages as time goes by, and how weirdly small Modern Sonic's first stage is, it seems more like the game only entered actual production starting from last year.
Especially with this slide from the Japanese 25th anniversary event…

…supposedly stating that "Sonic Project 2017 begins development" (Granted, anyone that can read this will have a clearer translation) Yipes.

Lots of scrapped prototypes then.

Also, bonus side-eye whenever Iizuka pretends to have anything to do with Sonic Mania.

 

[MrBadger]

Probably worth keeping in mind that the writers of these articles have to play a ton of games and probably haven't played Colours and Generations since their release. Not that that means that their opinion is invalid or anything, but that does mean they're more likely to have their opinion on boost Sonic be determined by how good it is in Forces.

And I don't think the problem in Forces is just a lack of nostalgia and a bland art style. The level design in all of the four levels shown so far have very little meat to them and really just look boring. And it's not even because they're only showing early levels. Colours, Generations, and even Lost World all made a good first impression. Each of those games had way more going on even in their first levels than in any of the Forces levels shown so far.

To add on to that, first levels in Sonic games usually set good first impressions even in the games that didn't end up being so hot. Sonic Adventure had the Orca sequence, SA2 had the iconic boarding down San Francisco, Seaside Hill in Sonic Heroes had lots going on visually and even back in the day, Sonic 3 had lots of cinematic set-pieces in Angel Island, and Green Hill was the level in S1 that shaped how the sequels would be designed.

I think it's perfectly fair to form opinions on how Forces will be based on what Sonic Team have chosen to show us.

 

[ZeoVGM]

This game didn't take 6 years, there was Lost World in between.

Was the seriously the same team as Generations and this? I always considered it more of a spin-off.