Support NeoGAF

[MagnaderAlpha]

Ew what a toxic attitude. I'm 20 and love this series more than I should, warts and all, but there's no need to be so gross and defensive about the classics being more well liked. Maybe consider why that may be.

There are people that believe their ideal version of a series is the correct one. I'm not knocking that, since I obviously have a preferred version of Sonic the Hedgehog, but sometimes they get salty when they don't get their way or feel the world is out to tell them that maybe the series has moved on(or back) to something that they don't agree with. Being the fan of a series for so long, it's bound to change sometime to the point where a group of fans are thrown under the bus. Usually that happens with older fans in hopes to attract newer fans, let the sacrificial flames ignite. But, there are a lot of newer fans I find, coming with the newer waves after that sacrifice that seem to believe their versions is untouchable. I'm just saying, it happened before, it could happen again. Those who hopped on via SA aren't any more special than those who hopped on in the beginning. Everybody is fair game to be thrown under the bus if a shift in style dictates so. I've been thrown under the bus many times, but I've learned to live with it. Those who haven't, well, its a scary thing to discover how you aren't that special, nor is your preferred taste. The only thing you can take solace in is knowing that it doesn't erase the fact that your time existed, and that means in the future, it's likely that someone can be inspired by the style you loved.

 

[@MUWANdo]

Okay, so, this is a personal and somewhat complex web of nonsense involving a highly unstable individual I was friends and briefly FWBs with, but I can only assume there will be a never-ending clusterfuck on gaf now until the end of time, which inevitably involves you guys and gals on the mod team in some way, so I'm an open book here. The woman in question ended up being completely psychotic and held a grudge against me after a bizarre love triangle situation developed a few years ago between me, her, and another girl (the other girl I ended up in a long-term relationship with shortly thereafter). This NOLA story she apparently just put up on social media is a delusion of a deeply disturbed person who had a total psychological breakdown as a result of me and the other girl getting together, because she (phew, yeah...) became obsessively infatuated with the other girl (she's bi) on sight when the three of us met up. I wanted to just stay friends with the girl making the accusation and made it super super clear ahead of time that me and the other girl were interested in each other romantically and that could play out as such when we met up. Supposedly this was not a problem for her from accusation, but in reality she uhhh wanted me to die painfully after seeing me and the other girl interact. Plus she became infatuated with the other girl simultaneously to this (she's bi), which created the aforementioned bizarre love triangle that ended up causing her to implode and have an apparently very intense and long-lasting grudge. The whole story about how that love triangle thing played out is, frankly, nuts and scary, and involves this girl bringing us to a compound of dangerous scientology spinoff cultists on that same trip, who roofied us, attempted to recruit/scam me and attempted to abduct/rape the girl I ended up dating, in what was a fucking scary situation that resulted in me and the other girl and the rest of my friend circle never speaking to this girl from the accusation again.

 

[Tain]

But I thought the bright and busy aesthetic made it unreadable!

lol

 

[Vanillalite]

Feels like the series really died when they tried to do the OG like 2d sprite based GBA games that just never took off with the public at large.

Like they did exactly what they are trying to do now, but nobody really cared?

 

[@MUWANdo]

Okay, so, this is a personal and somewhat complex web of nonsense involving a highly unstable individual I was friends and briefly FWBs with, but I can only assume there will be a never-ending clusterfuck on gaf now until the end of time, which inevitably involves you guys and gals on the mod team in some way, so I'm an open book here. The woman in question ended up being completely psychotic and held a grudge against me after a bizarre love triangle situation developed a few years ago between me, her, and another girl (the other girl I ended up in a long-term relationship with shortly thereafter). This NOLA story she apparently just put up on social media is a delusion of a deeply disturbed person who had a total psychological breakdown as a result of me and the other girl getting together, because she (phew, yeah...) became obsessively infatuated with the other girl (she's bi) on sight when the three of us met up. I wanted to just stay friends with the girl making the accusation and made it super super clear ahead of time that me and the other girl were interested in each other romantically and that could play out as such when we met up. Supposedly this was not a problem for her from accusation, but in reality she uhhh wanted me to die painfully after seeing me and the other girl interact. Plus she became infatuated with the other girl simultaneously to this (she's bi), which created the aforementioned bizarre love triangle that ended up causing her to implode and have an apparently very intense and long-lasting grudge. The whole story about how that love triangle thing played out is, frankly, nuts and scary, and involves this girl bringing us to a compound of dangerous scientology spinoff cultists on that same trip, who roofied us, attempted to recruit/scam me and attempted to abduct/rape the girl I ended up dating, in what was a fucking scary situation that resulted in me and the other girl and the rest of my friend circle never speaking to this girl from the accusation again.

 

[Raitaro]

That guy is Takashi Iizuka, who was a level designer on Sonic 3, director on the Adventure games and producer on pretty much every other Sonic game since Yuji Naka left. His presence doesn't really indicate much of anything, I don't think.

Thanks for filling in that blank. Not sure if I'd want him to be supervising or not after you explained who he is, honestly.

 

[goldenpp72]

Feels like the series really died when they tried to do the OG like 2d sprite based GBA games that just never took off with the public at large.

Like they did exactly what they are trying to do now, but nobody really cared?

Didn't those games sell quite a bit? Not like huge amounts but I think they tended to sell 1-2 million copies a piece. Keep in mind, that Sonic as a series has a lot of ups and downs, Sonic and Knuckles didn't sell so hot back then as example. Really, if the game isn't a big multi platform release (unleashed, heroes) then the general cap for sales seems to be 2 million, even the Dreamcast titles couldn't match those.


Sonic needs to be put on as many platforms as possible to generate big sales, whenever the series is not on all platforms (see generations, colors, etc) it tends to only do pretty good.

 

[MrBadger]

Absolutely. It (and the shit gameplay) is why I'm not as crazy about Sonic Unleashed as some other Sonic fans.

Feels like the series really died when they tried to do the OG like 2d sprite based GBA games that just never took off with the public at large.

Like they did exactly what they are trying to do now, but nobody really cared?

Hm, I was always of the impression that the Advance and Rush series did pretty well

 

[Neff]

Lost World looked more like how a Sonic game should look to me than Mania does. They really nailed the look of the old games in 3D and I don't think it gets enough credit for it.

 

[Mman235]

This is why Sonic Mania stands out so much. It feels so much more authentic than the Project 2017 trailer that bookended the party. It's not just that Mania invokes nostalgia; it displays a fundamental understanding of Sonic. I trust that Whitehead, Headcannon and PagodaWest can make something truly special in Sonic Mania; it stands to become one of the best Sonic games since the original trilogy.

This is the thing that stuck out about Mania and the reason it's the first Sonic thing I'm excited for since the early-32 bit era. There's a bunch of aesthetic touches the original Sonic games had that that footage was full of (on top of stuff like the music being spot-on). That's in contrast to something like Sonic 4, that was a similar nostalgia grab on the surface but was empty surface level pandering with none of the more subtle touches.

 

[TheDinoman]

Didn't those games sell quite a bit? Not like huge amounts but I think they tended to sell 1-2 million copies a piece. Keep in mind, that Sonic as a series has a lot of ups and downs, Sonic and Knuckles didn't sell so hot back then as example. Really, if the game isn't a big multi platform release (unleashed, heroes) then the general cap for sales seems to be 2 million, even the Dreamcast titles couldn't match those.


Sonic needs to be put on as many platforms as possible to generate big sales, whenever the series is not on all platforms (see generations, colors, etc) it tends to only do pretty good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#Dreamcast

Sonic Adventure actually sold 2.5 million on the Dreamcast.

 

[InsaneTiger]

Colours is not average and has a lot of charm. Would say the same of Generations and Lost World.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, as am I entitled to my opinion. I think the 3D games are all average.

 

[Simbabbad]

Lost World looked more like how a Sonic game should look to me than Mania does. They really nailed the look of the old games in 3D and I don't think it gets enough credit for it.

That it did.

Shame the game released in a broken alpha stage.

 

[wrowa]

I love watching the Sonic Mania trailer. I'm not even a huge fan of 2D Sonic's gameplay and yet the trailer really makes me want to play it. The look, the sound, it's just fun.

The trailer for Project Sonic 2017 on the other hand looks bland and unnecessarily edgy/dark in comparison. I wish they would lead 3D Sonic in a direction that screams more "fun" as well,

 

[TheDinoman]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, as am I entitled to my opinion. I think the 3D games are all average.

Funny thing about that comment is, Sonic 06 wishes it could be considered "average", instead of being considered the nadir of the entire series lol

 

[Pimpbaa]

I think the 3D games are all average.

Either average or totally fucking broken. Thinking of any Sonic games past the ones on the genesis/megadrive just makes me depressed.

 

[J@hranimo]

That it did.

Shame the game released in a broken alpha stage.

?

What was Alpha about it? The mechanics functioned, there weren't any game breaking aspects of the game and it performed pretty smoothly for the most part. Lost World from the bits I have played suffered from inconsistent level design especially in 2D. Doesn't scream "broken alpha build" to me.

To bring it back to the thread subject, I'd say the aesthetics are definitely key to what most fans, especially those who grew up with the 90s games, enjoyed and loved. I'd still say that gameplay matters most though. With Taxman x Stealth rocking the game engine I'm more than confident Sonic Mania will be fantastic along with Padoga West handling visuals (and I've looked up some of their mobile games, very slick stuff ) along with Tee Lopes creating catchy tunes.

I keep saying that Sonic Mania to me is a "dream game" because it feels like this team "made it." It's like some of the Sonic fangame folks finally convinced SEGA they know what they're doing when it comes to proving they can make a product that evokes a classic, 90s-era Sonic platformer that can stand on its own as a successor to Sonic 3 & Knuckles. They're giving them that chance and I cannot wait to see more of this.

 

[Piers]

Either average or totally fucking broken. Thinking of any Sonic games past the ones on the genesis/megadrive just makes me depressed.

Worse yet: the Megadrive games were all between 1991-1994.
Three years.

 

[Village]

Nah, I don't think so.

There are bunches of people who like different versions of sonic and different aesthetics, I think there is a reason they have to regularly give " we aren't making sonic adventure 3" right now statements.

Sonic's and his friends designs work , like they work very well they have worked continued to draw fans despite years of bad games, and they can fit in a lot of aesthetics. To suggest its just one, is just dismissive and sort of a really bad argument because the odd continued interest of the concept of SA3 to the degree in was trending on twitter the entire time that show went proves that.. people just want games that they like rather aesthetic. Sonic 06 would have been shit pop aesthetic or no. Generations would still be good pop aesthetic or no.

The trailer for Project Sonic 2017 on the other hand looks bland and unnecessarily edgy/dark in comparison.

How does it look edgy?

Not everything that isn't happy is edgy.

Sometimes a bad thing happens, bad things can happen. They happen in real life, its fine.

27. My 17 year old cousin and 10 year old nephew are real excited about Sonic Mania as well, but have been real let down in the past by Sonic. Anecdotally, they both also thought Sonic 2017 looked like it was going to be "bad and dumb like other Sonics".

This style is how Sonic works, Sega is being really dumb by not 100% rebranding and focusing on it. Mania shouldn't be the offshoot with more "I'm a mature and edgy hero" being the mainline. That Sonic is a joke, and never hasn't been.

If Mania nails the gameplay as much as the style, they would be so dumb to not learn from that.

I can bring anecdotal evidence that leans towards the opposite. My nephew doesn't like classic sonic, he thinks he looks dumb.

So you know.. anecdotal evidence.

Ew what a toxic attitude. I'm 20 and love this series more than I should, warts and all, but there's no need to be so gross and defensive about the classics being more well liked. Maybe consider why that may be.
.

I don't think he's getting defensive considering everything he just said are fairly common criticisms of games like colors.

He just doesn't like classic sonic... and that's ok. He didn't claim anyone was inferior or anything, why is toxic because he's not fond of something. he has the right that opinion a right to voice... that's ok.

 

[goldenpp72]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#Dreamcast

Sonic Adventure actually sold 2.5 million on the Dreamcast.

I believe Advance broke 2 million, so i'd call that close to a tie, consider Sonic Adventure was the glorious return of the series after skipping a whole generation, a launch title on a system that launched big, and easily the highest selling game on the platform, i'd not call the Advance series a failure.

I believe I read the highest selling portable Sonic was Sonic Rush at over 3 million, which was the oddball out and on a system that over 100 million bought, so yeah. The series has been on a big decline lately but well, the games have sucked.

 

[TheCongressman1]

How does it look edgy?

Not everything that isn't happy is edgy.

Sometimes a bad thing happens, bad things can happen. They happen in real life, its fine.

Edgy is an overused word, but the tone of the trailer is pretty melodramatic. Sonic looks over a burning city, gritting his teeth and clinching his fists. I think it may be that way ironically, because when Classic shows up, the tone changes. So it might end up following Colors/Generations' lighthearted feel.

I'd personally like another Sonic with darker themes, but they haven't done a great job with that in the past. It can be done well without being over the top, but I'm not sure they'd get it right.

 

[MrCunningham]

The whole pop-up art aspect was only really a thing in Japan for the longest time. American marketing focused on making Sonic basically the video game version of Bart Simpson. Europe was a nice in-between.

Just compare the box art for the first Sonic the Hedgehog on all regions.

Don't forget about the Canadian box art...

Which is essentially just the European box art with "Genesis" branding. Though back in the day I was always a little confused with the "For use with the Sega Mega Drive Video Entertainment System" text on the bottom. I guess they forgot to change that?

 

[MrBadger]

Lost World looked more like how a Sonic game should look to me than Mania does. They really nailed the look of the old games in 3D and I don't think it gets enough credit for it.

I didn't really think so. I thought Lost World's art style was pretty generic. Especially the beach area and the volcano area. Maybe I'm not giving it enough credit but it didn't feel distinctly "Sonic" to me like Mania does. It didn't prove to me that it could create original zones in the style of classic Sonic, because the only areas that really made me think of them were the levels that were just straight up copies like Green Hill and the casino.

 

[cordy]

I love this stuff.

Yep, that's Sonic.

I also didn't have a problem with the Adventure series but it felt like I don't know, say instead of Mario being in their different worlds they'd have a game that takes place in Brooklyn. That just doesn't work that well even if the mechanics work. This is Sonic. I will say Adventure 2 did it better than anything else this series has done with realistic visuals.

 

[Village]

Edgy is an overused word, but the tone of the trailer is pretty melodramatic. Sonic looks over a burning city, gritting his teeth and clinching his fists. I think it may be that way ironically, because when Classic shows up, the tone changes. So it might end up following Colors/Generations' lighthearted feel.

I'd personally like another Sonic with darker themes, but they haven't done a great job with that in the past. It can be done well without being over the top, but I'm not sure they'd get it right.

He's upset eggman did a bad, its fine.

Also going over the top os what makes serious sonic stories worth it. There is a value in embracing sillyness unapologetically that i think sonic and a lot of media when a lot of stuff became self referencing apologetically for its sillyness.

There is a value in jusy being dumb and the story taking that stupidity strait. Just dont sonic 06 it