abstract alien said:The classic sonic games were great at the time, but they havent aged well at all.
I still think Sonic CD plays great. :/
But I'd say Sonic 1 didn't age well, and 2 and 3 are still good. I wasn't such a big fan of S&K though.
abstract alien said:The classic sonic games were great at the time, but they havent aged well at all.
thechristoph said:Hey, screw you pal! Viking is a good, fun little game. There's a lot to enjoy there. What does a Viking do? Run around and kill shit. What do you do in this game? Run around and kill shit. There's a story but each cutscene says PRESS A TO SKIP in huge letters, almost inviting you to not give a fuck about anything that isn't running around and killing shit.
Perhaps, but it most likely would have been the better game for it, and might've helped to reinvigorate Sonic Team's zombie souls, and restored our faith in Sonic Team, instead of simply adding to the problem.jeremy1456 said:NiGHTS Journey of Dreams bombed, but Sega didn't lose much money on it.
There's no doubt in my mind it would have done equally bad, or even worse on the PS3 and 360 given the demographics.
Only Sonic can restore any faith in "Sonic team". I mean, if nintendo made crap loads of shitty main line LoZ/ Mario titles would a could-be-almost-decent-or-above Kid Icarus title restore faith in those teams?ruby_onix said:Perhaps, but it most likely would have been the better game for it, and might've helped to reinvigorate Sonic Team's zombie souls, and restored our faith in Sonic Team, instead of simply adding to the problem.
ruby_onix said:Perhaps, but it most likely would have been the better game for it, and might've helped to reinvigorate Sonic Team's zombie souls, and restored our faith in Sonic Team, instead of simply adding to the problem.
So the lesson to be learned is... don't work for Sega?drohne said:to a degree, sure, but moving to a generationally weaker console that would force compromises in even the least ambitious design plan must be uniquely problematic
Yes. Miyamoto's put out (almost) his fair share of turkeys, but after one great game, all is always forgiven. Clearly not everyone is Miyamoto, but the principle is there, and every game counts.Black-Wind said:Only Sonic can restore any faith in "Sonic team". I mean, if nintendo made crap loads of shitty main line LoZ/ Mario titles would a could-be-almost-decent-or-above Kid Icarus title restore faith in those teams?
Yes, a game is automatically better with HD graphics than without. Nevermind the fact that HD graphics aren't the issue here. Sega telling Sonic Team to make an entirely new game from scratch after already spending half their time and at least half of their budget on something else is the issue. It's a near-certainty that the PS360 game (if it really existed) would've been better than the final product. It's just a question of how much better.jeremy1456 said:HD graphics don't automatically make a game 'better.'
It's not like they switched development teams - it was still being made by SONIC TEAM. The same Sonic Team that made PSU, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic the Hedgehog 2006, etc.
Come on.
Mama Robotnik said:Upon witnessing the overnight success of the Wii, Sega of Japan apparently forced Sonic Team to retool the game for Nintendos lower-spec platform
jeremy1456 said:HD graphics don't automatically make a game 'better.'
It's not like they switched development teams - it was still being made by SONIC TEAM. The same Sonic Team that made PSU, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic the Hedgehog 2006, etc.
Come on.
Thunder Monkey said:So the lesson to be learned is... don't work for Sega?
ruby_onix said:Yes. Miyamoto's put out (almost) his fair share of turkeys, but after one great game, all is always forgiven. Clearly not everyone is Miyamoto, but the principle is there, and every game counts.
Sonic Team USA is not the same team as Sonic Team. Kind of a moot point since they don't exist any more, but don't mix the failures of one up with the failures of the other.jeremy1456 said:HD graphics don't automatically make a game 'better.'
It's not like they switched development teams - it was still being made by SONIC TEAM. The same Sonic Team that made PSU, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic the Hedgehog 2006, etc.
Come on.
No... this is a piece of shit.drohne said:don't work for sega, wii is a piece of shit -- seems like all the lessons here are fairly obvious
Skiptastic said:They would have been better off selling themselves to Microsoft from a hardcore fan's perspective than merging with Sammy. MS at the time, and from all I've seen still to this day, is so fucking concerned with not shitting up classic hardcore franchises and development teams that they would probably have kept Smilebit and Overworks as their own development teams.
Never with one so adept.drohne said:i see you've played knifey spoony before
Andrex said:...uh, like?
Naming names seems like it would be a bad idea. I assumed everyone would just insert their own names in their heads. :lolAndrex said:...uh, like?
I didn't!ruby_onix said:Naming names seems like it would be a bad idea. I assumed everyone would just insert their own names in their heads. :lol
The key is to do alot more gold than crap.ruby_onix said:Yes. Miyamoto's put out (almost) his fair share of turkeys, but after one great game, all is always forgiven. Clearly not everyone is Miyamoto, but the principle is there, and every game counts.
Diablos said:Despite all of the stupid things Sega has done and will continue to do, they have at least partially redeemed themselves with one of the best games released in the past ten years or so:
I still can't believe they made this. In the back of my mind I still sometimes think it's by Square, tri-Ace, Atlus, etc. etc. But, no, it's from the team that was once AM1.
meppi said:What I find peculiar myself is that they seemingly had to change the game for to be on Wii overnight with the same release date and everything still in place. And yet, instead of trimming the fat and focussing on the core of the NiGHTS gameplay and levels, they still found a way too keep in all the crap like on foot missions, awkward storylines and throwaway padded levels.
This could have forced them to make a more compact game, which would likely have been a step up from the one we got in the end. But somehow, with the time they had left they still thought it necessary to inject the NiGHTS concept with fluff that made it anything but a better game.
The rot goes real deep in Sega.ivysaur12 said:This. The game could have been better than it was if the developers had the right direction. They did not, and from the way the game flowed it seemed as if they never did. Even though I enjoyed the flying levels, everything else was a chore to get through.
Zoramon089 said:I hope people don't seriously think that Nights 2 would have magically increased in quality if it had remained on 360/PS3 [...]
holy shit :lolIn Bens own words: Theres no doubt that Sonic Team have lost their quality touch. They are worse than talentless: they are without passion. Bored, weary, closed-minded and out of touch with any sense of what makes games good anymore. Quite simply put, after making so many of them, Sonic Team is tired of Sonic games - something Ben cites as a reason for Yuji Nakas resignation in 2006.
It explains... so much.Haunted said:holy shit :lol
I think it might be some form of Group-serving bias maybe (?)GrotesqueBeauty said:There are an awful lot of people taking all this at face value. What happened to GAF's healthy sense of skepticism? There's nothing that corroborates what's being said about Journey of Dreams yet people are attaching all sorts of significance to it as though it were fact, then labeling their own hasty conjecture based on a few lines from some dude's blog as "near certainty". What's more, Famistsu published rumors about NiGHTS Wii an entire year before the blog entry being cited, and more than half a year before this guy claims development for the platform began.
So why are people treating this as gospel all the sudden? Could it be that they're more willing to accept rumors and speculation uncritically when it reinforces their already existing opinions on a subject? The article is an interesting glimpse into one guy's scattershot observations and largely second hand accounts, but some of you are gleaning way too much from a few tidbits of unsubstantiated information.
...RobbieNick said:House of The Dead: Overkill
MadWorld
Sonic and the Black Knight
The Conduit
All Wii games by Sega for the first half of this year.
It's official. The Wii is no longer "two GameCubes duck-taped together", but a GameCube and a Dreamcast duck-taped together.:lol
Amir0x said:It would not surprise me if NiGHTS was the epic abomination it was due to that, because a lot of its low-tier problems were related to its technical aspects. But I have no doubt it would have still sucked if it was designed at all like the game turned out to be... it was a very very poor shadow of the original.
Segata Sanshiro said:NiGHTS JoD has its flaws but it is nowhere near a shitty game. Anyone that thinks so is a dumbfuck of the highest order. And a ball-licker. And a puppy murderer. And a PS3 owner.
Alex Anderson said:PSU is garbage.
Alex Anderson said:I got it at launch for the PC and half of the areas were still locked despite all the content already being on the disc.
Alex Anderson said:The addition of item synthesis was completely pointless, the areas are incredibly short, unvaried, and this is made even more annoying by having to navigate between them via the much too large ship lobbies. The game simply had far too little content for everything to be spaced out that much.
Alex Anderson said:It didn't feel like you were actually questing, just playing same-looking 10 minute area, rinsing and repeating in order to level up. PSO may be the same 6-hour Forest, Caves, Mines, Ruins run every time, but at least it felt like an actual quest that had a point to it.
Alex Anderson said:And the music and art direction was worse. The game is just an abortion and I wish I could forget it.
It doesn't have to be about the HD twins.Black-Wind said:As for Nights and this "could only be done on the HD twins!" bit . . . we have heard this phase before and I don't see Sega pumping that much money and effort into Nights to actually warrent such a feat. "It would have been sooooooo good! There were ideas that could only be done with the power of the HD twins!" . . . I think the game would have still been crap. I don't see Sonic Team as anything to put too much bank in when it comes to lines like that about such a low-key game.
I'm the only one who used the words "near certainty" when describing the theoretical quality of a game, which I stand behind (as I do the example above), and I even qualified it by questioning the existence of such a game in the very same sentence.GrotesqueBeauty said:There are an awful lot of people taking all this at face value. What happened to GAF's healthy sense of skepticism? There's nothing that corroborates what's being said about Journey of Dreams yet people are attaching all sorts of significance to it as though it were fact, then labeling their own hasty conjecture based on a few lines from some dude's blog as "near certainty".
Kilrogg said:Why would a publisher force its developers to remake a game without giving them more time to do it?
Oh, right, because they're dumb.
GrotesqueBeauty said:There are an awful lot of people taking all this at face value. What happened to GAF's healthy sense of skepticism? There's nothing that corroborates what's being said about Journey of Dreams yet people are attaching all sorts of significance to it as though it were fact, then labeling their own hasty conjecture based on a few lines from some dude's blog as "near certainty". What's more, Famistsu published rumors about NiGHTS Wii an entire year before the blog entry being cited, and more than half a year before this guy claims development for the platform began.
So why are people treating this as gospel all the sudden? Could it be that they're more willing to accept rumors and speculation uncritically when it reinforces their already existing opinions on a subject? The article is an interesting glimpse into one guy's scattershot observations and largely second hand accounts, but some of you are gleaning way too much from a few tidbits of unsubstantiated information.
I realize you're the only one who used those specific words; I quoted them because they happen to capture a general posture being taken by a few people in this thread. I also realize you felt the need to qualify your assumption, but that only underscores why harping about how much better the game would have been in HD is presumptuous to begin with. You've built one assumption on another.ruby_onix said:I'm the only one who used the words "near certainty" when describing the theoretical quality of a game, which I stand behind (as I do the example above), and I even qualified it by questioning the existence of such a game in the very same sentence.
The article says the guy was a "Game Evaluator" and an "Admissions and Recruitment Executive" at Sega Europe. It's all well and good that he had foreknowledge of some themes in the next Sonic game (something you might expect of a "Game Evaluator"), but that doesn't make him an authority on all of Sega's internal dealings, particularly when he's talking about matters not even taking place within the same division of Sega, or even on the same continent for that matter. We can confirm the Sonic unleashed info because the game has been released, but the same can't be said of the NiGHTS stuff. Like I said before, there is nothing outside of a single blog post to corroborate his version of events, so while it's interesting as speculation and conjecture it should ultimately be taken with a grain of salt.FoxSpirit said:Because it was confirmed that the source was valid? Both by confirming he was an ex Sega employee and his forcasting of Sonic Unleashed's werehog.
So it's not a rumour. Stuff like that happens from time to time. On the shoryuken forums we recently had one of the developers of Streetfighter:The Movie (The arcade version). Was a nice discussion with some nice behind the scene pics from the mocap work.
I would never say their games are shitty.Segata Sanshiro said:NiGHTS JoD has its flaws but it is nowhere near a shitty game. Anyone that thinks so is a dumbfuck of the highest order. And a ball-licker. And a puppy murderer. And a PS3 owner.
The nerve of that guy eh?!AniHawk said:Okay, now that's just going one too far.
GrotesqueBeauty said:I realize you're the only one who used those specific words; I quoted them because they happen to capture a general posture being taken by a few people in this thread. I also realize you felt the need to qualify your assumption, but that only underscores why harping about how much better the game would have been in HD is presumptuous to begin with. You've built one assumption on another.
Even taking everything in the blog at face value your assumption seems misguided though. He states that the reason why development shifted was because "By the time of TGS last year there were playable ROMS on X360 and the general response to the code was not positive." So basically the project was already on shaky ground. Compound that with the fact that the HD version was supposedly more ambitious in nature and we're supposed to believe that the same team that supposedly couldn't properly execute a scaled down version, despite their analysis that it would be easier to create, would have somehow succeeded in executing a grander vision from a build that was flawed enough to make the directors question whether an HD version was even warranted?
Too much ass in this post.Ponn01 said:My assumption of your assumption at his assumption and subsequent assumption is built upon the assumption of an assumption.
Thunder Monkey said:Too much ass in this post.
Masturbation imminent!