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Sonic Team head: Because we always innovate its hard to please classic Sonic fans.

autobzooty said:
sonic adventure 1 and 2 were riding on the coat tails of the past good sonic games. people were able to enjoy them at the time merely because it was sonic in 3D, not because they were really that good. and now we've reached this sick place where people have false nostalgia for these games that are mediocre at best, and sega is tapping that false nostalgia in Sonic Generations.

feels bad, man. :(

Even with their problems, the Sonic levels in Adventure 1 are the closest they've ever gotten to capturing the magic of Sonic 1-Knuckles, and in my opinion they were only a bit of polish away from truly succeeding.
 
Sega1991 said:
I'd take medal collecting and Werehog stuff over fishing and "stealth" in SA1, let alone emerald hunting in SA2. Both those games are oddly way more beloved.

Stealth? That was what the Amy sections were? I forced my sister through those...but I had to play the Big parts....fuck life.

I love the Sonic Adventure games but that's just nostalgia talking...I hated the Big the Cat parts of SA1 and Knuckles levels were bland in there to. The shooting parts and Tails' parts were solid changes of pace tho.

SA2 is one of my favorite games of all time due to me getting it with my Dreamcast ( right before the Dreamcast got Ps2'd) one christmas....BEST CHRISTMAS EVER. like all 3 game types just wised that there were more Sonic/Shadow levels....not in space.

That;s the thing that the SA games had a good base that Sega should have built on by focusing on Sonic's gameplay and nixing the bugs. With each game Sega gets close and then adds on some dumbshit or says fuck testing this bitch send it out.

So frustrating to have games that could have not sucked if they had just stopped adding shit and actually test for bugs
 
Sega1991 said:
I'd take medal collecting and Werehog stuff over fishing and "stealth" in SA1, let alone emerald hunting in SA2. Both those games are oddly way more beloved.
emerald hunting in sa2 was alright, I prefer that over werehog because knuckles and rouge handle more sonic like then that werehog did.
 
Diablohead said:
emerald hunting in sa2 was alright, I prefer that over werehog because knuckles and rouge handle more sonic like then that werehog did.

This also the Pumpkin hill has the best/worst rap song of all time....

/KayneShrug
 
qq more said:
...I'm glad I only played the Wii version (ironically shittier though). I've heard about the medal collecting and that sort of made me not wanna touch the HD versions. Plus, the demo I've tried on both systems had delayed controls... what's up with that? Is it like this in the final game?

I know there are some people here at NeoGAF that will disagree with me, but the Wii version is pretty awful. I finally got around to playing the Wii version a few months ago and it's stiff and janky and most of the daytime levels feel way more rigid than their HD counterparts.

I've never experienced delayed controls, though. Not in the final retail version or the demo. Are you sure it's not just your TV or something?

Diablohead said:
emerald hunting in sa2 was alright, I prefer that over werehog because knuckles and rouge handle more sonic like then that werehog did.

I say to myself: What's worse?

A slightly below-average God of War clone with janky Prince of Persia platforming, or spending nearly 70 minutes in Mad Space fighting with anti-gravity controls essentially looking for a needle in a haystack?

Werehog wins.
 

qq more

Member
Sega1991 said:
I know there are some people here at NeoGAF that will disagree with me, but the Wii version is pretty awful. I finally got around to playing the Wii version a few months ago and it's stiff and janky and most of the daytime levels feel way more rigid than their HD counterparts.

I've never experienced delayed controls, though. Not in the final retail version or the demo. Are you sure it's not just your TV or something?



I say to myself: What's worse?

A slightly below-average God of War clone with janky Prince of Persia platforming, or spending nearly 70 minutes in Mad Space fighting with anti-gravity controls essentially looking for a needle in a haystack?

Werehog wins.
Yeah, I'm going have to agree. The emerald hunting stages in SA2 were god awful. And the only shooting stages I ended up enjoying were Robotnik's stages... so I only enjoyed half of SA2 if you don't include the chao garden.

The adventure series had not aged well at all. That's for sure.
 
Mortrialus said:
Even with their problems, the Sonic levels in Adventure 1 are the closest they've ever gotten to capturing the magic of Sonic 1-Knuckles, and in my opinion they were only a bit of polish away from truly succeeding.
Yep, basically this. I'm looking forward to the day they try another adventure style game with the proper amount of polish. They were so close but just started sliding backwards immediately after. Unleashed/Colors style is ok and all, but I'd rather they trade the boost-track-racing style for more freedom in the controls and more openness in the stages.

I also hope that with the general positive reaction to Classic Sonic's return, they are reevaluating their approach to Sonic 4 ep 2. As if the outcry didn't already ensure this.
 
Franchuzas87 said:
I freaking love Knuckles and Rouge levels in SA2. But werehog... good lord, I was unable to finish the game.
I take Werehog over treasure hunting

fuck that shit. especially Rouge's last stage
 
SwiftSketcher said:
Yep, basically this. I'm looking forward to the day they try another adventure style game with the proper amount of polish. They were so close but just started sliding backwards immediately after. Unleashed/Colors style is ok and all, but I'd rather they trade the boost-track-racing style for more freedom in the controls and more openness in the stages.

I also hope that with the general positive reaction to Classic Sonic's return, they are reevaluating their approach to Sonic 4 ep 2. As if the outcry didn't already ensure this.

Yeah, even Tails was well executed if you took out the racing aspect. It's basically what I want from Tails and Knuckles from the series: Sonic style levels, but with the ability to utilize their abilities to take alternate routes. Too bad Knuckles was so bad.
 

qq more

Member
gutter_trash said:
I take Werehog over treasure hunting

fuck that shit. especially Rouge's last stage
Fuck that god damn stage indeed. And don't forget how awful that 5 minute level was.
 
Sega1991 said:
I know there are some people here at NeoGAF that will disagree with me, but the Wii version is pretty awful. I finally got around to playing the Wii version a few months ago and it's stiff and janky and most of the daytime levels feel way more rigid than their HD counterparts.

I disagree with you. It was obviously the side effort compared to Unleashed HD, but it was better in my opinion. Far more streamlining (stats are automatically leveled for the Werehog, and only temporarily upgraded for Sonic by "Leveling Up" in-stage for each 20 or so rings). The Werehog levels were much more linear, but focused in a good way IMO, more puzzle-oriented, and generally less tiresome long-hauls. Even if there were too many of them, at least they broke up into segments you could save between.

Sonic's stages had more emphasis on drifting and linking together actions, and had sort of a "you vs the environment" feel. There were still enemies, just not too many times you were locked in a room until you killed them all.

The game's lives system was interesting, I didn't even learn how to earn extra lives until I'd already beaten the game. I liked the extra challenge areas in the temple, which used real-time switching between Sonic and Werehog as part of puzzles, instead of just changing segments. The overworld hubs were sparse, but also not needlessly gigantic and wasteful like Spagonia and such. There's very little wasted time in the overworld of the Wii version, which I appreciate. There's also no terrible "5 minute QTE" Tornado levels.

Also, the Super Sonic sequence was infinitely less shitty than "Fly achingly slow toward the boss," "Curl around this disorienting dome ramming tentacles that like to hide from you," and "Press X 60 times in 15 seconds or automatically die."

Finally, biggest bonus: I was never locked away from playing Story Stages because I didn't scrounge for an unnatural amount of medals in previous stages. I thought I was already doing a lot of exploring in Unleashed, but I was roadblocked twice, hard by the medal requirements. Those were way too high.

I will say the game was best with a Classic Controller, not a Wii Remote + Nunchuk or even a Gamecube controller (something about Boosting and Light Dashing maps differently between CC and GC for reasons I don't understand). I would not play it with motion controls, I remember not even being able to scale pipes with the Werehog with motion controls.
 
gutter_trash said:
I take Werehog over treasure hunting

fuck that shit. especially Rouge's last stage
Oh come on, it was like Mario Galaxy 0.5 in a Sonic game! How cool is that? Unpolished controls though.
 
played all sonic games .. i must say that .. sonic adventure 1 , despite some flaws was alright , sonic adventure 2 however i just can't enjoy this game .. sure it has good sonic levels BUT the rest is just awfull . At least in sonic adventure 1 i can keep playing sonic or tails version of the levels without problems .. but in SA2 i have to go trough the story with the awfull tail/eggman sequences ( E-102 sequences were short thus less anoying ).. they are too long , with way too many bugs .

And when it's not that i have to look for KEYs,emeralds and other stuff in complex levels YOU don't know with a radar so dumb you can't have 2 items at the same time active .. After 5 minutes when you find 1 item , YOU HAVE to search the ENTIRE area AGAIN There isn't a SINGLE good search map on SA2 .. 66% of the game is BORING 100% of the game is full of bugs .. as for the story it's a complete JOKE ... what's more with sonic 2006 they managed to do WORSE ...

Seriously ...the only decent 3d sonic games are adventure 1 and Colors.

Don't get me started on sonic unleashed ... The werwofves stages are tedious to the extreme, NOT FUN , not because werewolf sonic is too slow but because nothing is precise enough , jumping is a joke overall ( PS3 version ) the controls were crap .. I SURE LOVE JUMPING and missing my step by 2 pixels and sonic is unable to catch up the platform because you have claws but can't climb freely .Eggman land is the most hardest stage ever made in 3D for a sonic game and even by trying is don't think it's possible to make it more frustrating .. Every annoying aspect of the game is present in that stage , from the stupid collisions in normal sonic , the death traps you can't evade if you're not aware of their existence ( and even aware they are placed inrow so when you evade one you still get killed by the second untill you know all of them ) first to the horrible collisions likely to make to start 4 minutes earlier . IN a sonic game when you have a challenge to finish the level in less than 15 minutes something is wrong ... what's more you can't get everything in this stage because there is stuff on multiple paths ...CRAZY !!!

Don't innovate !! don't try to innovate ..All you have to do is to change things that weren't well received ... i really hope they learned because i'm very mad ...at them...

i didn't talk about sonic 2006 because my list of complains would be really long
 
From most to least enjoyable in 3D sonics:

SA1/2 Sonic
Colors Sonic
SA1 Tails
SA1 Knuckles
Amy
E-Gamma

Werehog (sucks at the start, a bit better once you level up. but still really out of place for a Sonic game)
Tails/Robotnick Mech (somehow felt clumsier and less fun than Gamma. Out of place, but at least gamma was fast paced and fun)
Medal Collecting
Big Fishing
SA2 Knuckles/Rouge
(at least I could finish Big levels in about 10 minutes. FUCK MAD SPACE. not the music tho, shit is tight)
 

steveovig

Member
I didn't mind the Werehog levels myself. They weren't that bad and they were certainly playable at best. Now, what Sega needs to do is finally release Knuckles Chaotix in a collection. Only Sonic I haven't played because NGPC Sonic, out of the 2D games!
 

Sciz

Member
steveovig said:
Now, what Sega needs to do is finally release Knuckles Chaotix in a collection. Only Sonic I haven't played because NGPC Sonic, out of the 2D games!
You aren't missing anything but the soundtrack. It's a 2D game, but the problems with it echo all the same issues that plague the 3D titles.

Pocket Adventure isn't bad, though.
 
steveovig said:
Now, what Sega needs to do is finally release Knuckles Chaotix in a collection. Only Sonic I haven't played because NGPC Sonic, out of the 2D games!

I can understand wanting it as a completionist, but as Sciz says Chaotix is absolutely terrible. It looks very interesting, but it plays horrendously.
 

Sciz

Member
It's almost worth playing through anyway just for the sheer novelty value of the special stages, which get crazy as hell later on and serve as a weird quasi-prototype for a direction the 3D evolution of the series could have taken.

The rest of the game is a half-baked mess featuring bland, confusing level design, poorly balanced characters, and an unintuitive gimmick that's wildly ineffectual 95% of the time. Its development was unfocused and rushed and it shows.
 

DonMigs85

Member
steveovig said:
I never experienced that and I gather that most players never did either. Still a very fun game, people complain too much about it.
No, it was horrid. I would much rather play Sonic 2 on Game Gear multiple times in a row.
At least this bastard was actually a good test of skill and reflexes:

sonic2_boss.png
 
I remember casually scanning through a Blockbuster, and seeing Knuckles Chaotix on a shelf months earlier than I expected it. Never a good sign.

And then they did that with the entire Saturn launch.
 
Kulock said:
I disagree with you.

Yep! I figured. :p

I did think the Wii version did have some good ideas, mind you. I liked leveling up the boost bar, that felt like a good way to reward you for getting tons of rings. Action linking is another great idea - I was a big fan of the Sonic Adventure 2/Sonic Heroes score bonus system, where you were given bonus points for chaining together multiple enemies, lightdashes, etc.

But I really did not like the Werehog combat. At the beginning, it feels way too limited, and overall very stiff and clunky. They did try to make the Werehog interact with levels more, but again, those feel clunky. The way the Werehog hugs walls for ledge sidle segments can be super weird (a few times I've fallen off because I apparently wasn't lined up right), and I loathe anything that makes me double tap the analog stick. Double tapping a d-pad I can do, because that's a 1 or 0 state. Either I am pressing the button, or I am not. Double tapping an analog stick is a lot trickier to pull off simply because of the distance involved with letting the stick recenter.

Most of the daytime levels don't feel as involved as their HD counterparts - I never bothered to beat Sonic Unleashed on the Wii, but of the levels I did manage to see, the only one I found myself really enjoying was the Wii version of Cool Edge Day. Some of them felt like they were taking weird cues from Secret Rings, with the way you had random swords drop out of the sky for no reason in Dragon Road and such.

I did like the way Werehog levels were laid out, at least, but I kept wishing I was playing them in the HD version of Unleashed instead (that is, Wii level layout, HD engine).
 

Lijik

Member
Sciz said:
It's almost worth playing through anyway just for the sheer novelty value of the special stages, which get crazy as hell later on and serve as a weird quasi-prototype for a direction the 3D evolution of the series could have taken.

The rest of the game is a half-baked mess featuring bland, confusing level design, poorly balanced characters, and an unintuitive gimmick that's wildly ineffectual 95% of the time. Its development was unfocused and rushed and it shows.
Nothing highlights this more than the tutorial that has a few doors that can be only opened if you and your partner stand on separate switches.
This is the only mechanic that explicitly requires the team aspect and its never used again.

As bad of a game as it is, I think its special stages are pretty amazing and gladly replay it occasionally putting up with the rest of the game (its thankfully not very difficult) to enjoy those.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Green Scar said:
Because of the Dreamcast, I guess. Lol. People always forget that's the game that introduced Shadow and Rogue. Arguments for the game usually boil down to 'BUBUBUBU CITY ESCAPE!!! :(".
Chao raising and racing them was fun damnit. :(
 

Keyouta

Junior Member
DonMigs85 said:
No, it was horrid. I would much rather play Sonic 2 on Game Gear multiple times in a row.
At least this bastard was actually a good test of skill and reflexes:

sonic2_boss.png

I remember that. Took me forever to beat it.
 
NO.

They don't understand that they need to get the CORE GAMEPLAY RIGHT before they go and start thinking about 'innovation'.

STOP INNOVATING AND MAKE THE GAME PLAY WORK PROPERLY BEFORE YOUR CRAPPY INNOVATION IDEAS YOU CHUMPS!

I hate that I hate Sonic so much these days, it's so bad. I used to love Sonic, like seriously I never thought I could possibly feel the way I do about the character, it was a full passion that I had over everything else, just felt he was the best character in the world. Well, Sega and Sonic Team have done everything they can to completely destroy that for me, I hate Sonic now, like I absolutely can't stand the games, even the old 2D games I don't enjoy any more because it makes me angry about what the series has turned into in recent times.

/end the rant of a burned and scorned old Sonic and Sega fanboy.
 

DeVeAn

Member
While not perfect Sonic levels in SA 1 and 2 are fun as fuck. Heroes and 2K6 were not fun. Unleashed was also fun minus everything but the runs as Sonic.

SEGA feels the need to pad extra shit around Sonic which do not help to make a fun game.
 
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