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Sonic X-treme, the 3D Sonic game that should have been.

G

Guybrush Threepwood

Banned
When I posted some gameplay videos of Sonic X-treme in the Mario Galaxy thread, a couple people were surprised at how good/fun it looked.

The following video is a 10 minute-long compilation of the game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT1VKNyW8rI

And here is a 1996 E3 trailer of the game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftNgzZ3Ovig

While I did enjoy Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2, this game would have been so much better than both of them. Obviously the music and graphics need refining, but Sega should really make a game using the same engine today.

This is how 3D Sonic games should have been.
 
O

Ogni-XR21

Member
IIRC this game used the Nights engine, but Naka didn't want them to use the engine so the game was never finished.

Edit: Nice video, I only knew the first level and the ice one, the other one were new to me. Hard to judge by the video if it would have been fun to play though...
 
G

Guybrush Threepwood

Banned
Ogni-XR21 said:
IIRC this game used the Nights engine, but Naka didn't want them to use the engine so the game was never finished.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's a real shame.

Apparently there's a guy who's attempting to finish the game/make a new game based off of the SX engine, so I guess that's a good thing.
 
T

TreIII

Member
Ogni-XR21 said:
IIRC this game used the Nights engine, but Naka didn't want them to use the engine so the game was never finished.
Click to expand...

That's only the tip of the iceberg.

Naka was again showing off his diva-like ways back during this time frame, such that he pretty much mandated that they couldn't use the NiGHTS engine, which then forced the Sonic Xtreme guys to try and start from scratch...they tried several times, and never quite were able to get back on their feet.

Truly a shame...not only was the Saturn buried without a true Sonic title to its name (it never got the Sonic the Fighters port it was never meant to have either), but a truly good looking Sonic title was killed in the womb too. And for what? So we could have all these Adventure-type games that still don't get the Sonic formula down correctly?

....Is there any real wonder why a number of us despise Naka so much, for what he did to do more to screw Sonic over than help him?
 
R

Ranger X

Member
I don't know but from the looks of it i'm so glad they did Sonic Adventure instead. It looks like a seriously shitty game. I don't see the appeal. And the fisheye view is downright unbearable.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
It'd been the 3D Sonic that should've been until they added all those secondary characters. The SA's are what the 3D Sonic's should be if they'd get a clue and remove all those characters no one really cares about frmo being playable. Focus on Sonic and leave it at that.
 
O

Ogni-XR21

Member
But why wouldn't Naka let them use the engine? He must have been on some mean ego trip back then... I heard that Sega JP and Sega US did not get along that well, was there a specific reason for that?

The guy playing the game in these videos seems to know what to do, so it looks ok, but some of the areas he goes to seem kind of hard to find, kind of "hey lets try jumping down this edge and check if somethings there". I imagine being quite lost when playing for the first time... But I think it captures the feeling of the old 2D games very well.
 
R

Ronok

Member
Ranger X said:
I don't know but from the looks of it i'm so glad they did Sonic Adventure instead. It looks like a seriously shitty game. I don't see the appeal. And the fisheye view is downright unbearable.
Click to expand...


Exactly what I was thinking..... That looked fucking horrid..... Really glad they gave us SA now seeing the alternative. lol
 
M

Mac the KNife

Member
While X-treme is certainly an interesting note in history, I doubt it would have been really fun to play. Sonic's supposed to be about speed, something this game (like Sonic 3D Blast) sorely lacks.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
Since this has turned into a Naka discussion of sorts, I wonder if we'll see a new Burning Rangers now. Back when the DC first came out he said that he wasn't going to do another BR until a system was released that could properly display fire effects. With Naka being gone now and Sega resurrecting NiGHTS it seems like they could bring back BR now.
 
S

Segata Sanshiro

Member
They were never using the NiGHTS engine. That's a huge misconception. Sonic Xtreme has a really complicated history, but basically the gist regarding the NiGHTS engine thing is this: Sonic Xtreme used two different gameplay engines that were developed independent of each other. The main level engine and the boss level engine were these two. At some point the guys doing the boss engine got an eyeful of NiGHTS and fell in love, and redid the boss engine to really closely mimic NiGHTS.

SEGA execs saw this, loved it, and told them to use that same engine for the main game. Somewhere along the line, Naka saw this stuff, assumed the imitation was the real thing, and freaked out that they were using NiGHTS assets. He was super-protective of NiGHTS (probably a major contributor to why we didn't get a sequel until he left) and threatened to quit over this. I'm sure he had it explained to him at some point because he didn't quit.

Sonic Xtreme was just a heavily troubled project that came down to the wire in a timing sense. It had been in development for years and years, switching platforms twice, and there was a date seen as a "do-or-die" date for the project. One of the key team members unfortunately got very sick near the "do-or-die" date and there was no way the game would be finished in time.

The game is the stuff of legend now, but really, I don't think people would have received it very favourably. It did nothing to convey the speed a Sonic game should have, and the controls (this was pre-Mario 64 era so people didn't know the right way to do it) were more Bug! than Crash Bandicoot, if you catch my drift. They probably should have buttoned it up and released it anyway, from a market point of view, but I don't shed any tears that they didn't.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
This is not how 3D Sonic games should have been. It honestly looks horrible.

The formula of Sonic Adventure was fine, it was just unpolished and never fully realized.
 
V

VNZ

Member
I love the twisted perspective! It looks like the bastard child of the original Sonics, Nebulus (kinda nice C64 platformer) and Mario Galaxy...
 
R

Ranger X

Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
The game is the stuff of legend now, but really, I don't think people would have received it very favourably. It did nothing to convey the speed a Sonic game should have, and the controls (this was pre-Mario 64 era so people didn't know the right way to do it) were more Bug! than Crash Bandicoot, if you catch my drift. They probably should have buttoned it up and released it anyway, from a market point of view, but I don't shed any tears that they didn't.
Click to expand...

Exactly what the video there told me! ;)
 
Dr. Kitty Muffins

Dr. Kitty Muffins

Member
By the time we get the Sonic 3D game we should have gotten in 1998, 10 years will have passed. By then it will seem underwhleming even though we will have gotten what we have always wanted.

Sonic just needs a redesign. I say stick him in a huge free roam world, let him run fast along the roads but give him Prince of Persia style platforming and Zelda-esque exploration off the beaten path. Throw in plenty of story so Naka has an excuse to make his shitty friends appear (non-playable friends of course) and we have a winner.
 
K

Krowley

Member
This doesn't look all that fun, but the camera is very interesting.

The character is always perfectly centered in the screen and the level design seems to be build around this concept. It manages to give a sense of 3 dimensional freedom in combination with being on rails. Very innovative, but probably not that fun, at least not as a sonic game.
 
J

Jea Song

Did the right thing
The game looks too slow for a sonic game. But im sure I still would of bought it had it been released. It's really sad to see sonic not doing so well anymore. I mean, the adventure titles werent too bad.

I think they either need to go back to 2d. In a style maybe close to what the next street fighter may be doing if its 2d. With non stop levels, and an amazing soundtrack, and a real sense of absolute speed(next gen blur efffects and all)

Or use the style of gameplay they had with their latest next gen horror that was Sonic the hedgehog, but get rid of all the shitty characters, all the bullshit story, fixed the damn camera for once, and no load times..
 
Finaika

Finaika

Member
The graphics look very nice for a Saturn game.

IIRC the game was developed by Sega Technical Institute in the US, the same people who made Sonic 3 for the Genesis.
 
K

kinn

Member
It looks ok but I'm glad we got the Adventure style instead. Just please "put down" his animal chums at the local vets.

On a related Naka note, he has left Sega for quite a while now....Has he/Probe even announced what they are working on yet?
 
S

Squeak

Member
Mac the KNife said:
While X-treme is certainly an interesting note in history, I doubt it would have been really fun to play. Sonic's supposed to be about speed, something this game (like Sonic 3D Blast) sorely lacks.
Click to expand...
There is plenty of speed! Did you even watch the full video?
That is the main advantage and whole point of the fisheye lens camera: That you are able to look quite far ahead (left and right), even though you view your character from the side.

If speed wasn't a problem in the old 2d games, why would it be a problem here, where you can look even further ahead?

And when you run into the screen (like some at points of the video) this is no different than any other 3d game.

And the fisheye lens is not unbearable. Rubbish! It's no more unbearable than than so many other camera types. All it takes is a bit of getting used to.

The Saturn was probably the only one of the 32 bit consoles that could have done this type of camera, due to its software driven transformation (Well Jaguar maybe also, but not as technically good looking).
 
K

kammy

Banned
This was going to be shit. The level design isnt Sonic.

Sega need to make a Sonic game like Mario Galaxy. No fluff. No friends. No bollocks.

Just Pure Sonic Next Gen goodness.
 
K

kammy

Banned
I love how everyone goes on about the music in the windy level....yet forget it was the music on the 1st level :D

It is awesome though. Would have loved to have heard the water theme from Mario 64 though :(
 
G

Guybrush Threepwood

Banned
To the people who are saying the game looks like shit...

This is a beta (or perhaps an earlier version) of a ten-year-old game. Of course parts will look like shit.

But what is the main thing that people knock the Adventure games for? Camera. And just by watching these videos it's pretty obvious that there are virtually no camera problems.

If Sega (or another company) made a game like this today, and were to use a similar or the same engine, greatly improve the graphics, and make the music all orchestrated, the game would be on the verge of being a masterpiece.
 
K

kammy

Banned
1. Its a Saturn Game.
2. Its by Sege of america.

It would have sucked monkeyballs if it had come out. IMO It would have sunk the Saturn. Its a joke. Sony would have been laughing all the way to the bank with Crash Bandicoot....well they did but you get the idea :lol
 
K

kammy

Banned
Zeed said:
The game looks like shit. How is that supposed to look fun at all?
Click to expand...

As you can see, Guybrush is wearing his Segegoggles.

Guybrush Threepwood said:
To the people who are saying the game looks like shit...

This is a beta (or perhaps an earlier version) of a ten-year-old game. Of course parts will look like shit.

But what is the main thing that people knock the Adventure games for? Camera. And just by watching these videos it's pretty obvious that there are virtually no camera problems.

If Sega (or another company) made a game like this today, and were to use a similar or the same engine, greatly improve the graphics, and make the music all orchestrated, the game would be on the verge of being a masterpiece.
Click to expand...
 
M

Mockingbird

Member
Guybrush Threepwood said:
To the people who are saying the game looks like shit...

This is a beta (or perhaps an earlier version) of a ten-year-old game. Of course parts will look like shit.

But what is the main thing that people knock the Adventure games for? Camera. And just by watching these videos it's pretty obvious that there are virtually no camera problems.

If Sega (or another company) made a game like this today, and were to use a similar or the same engine, greatly improve the graphics, and make the music all orchestrated, the game would be on the verge of being a masterpiece.
Click to expand...

What the hell are you talking about? The perspective is horrible. You walk forward but you'll have no idea what the hell will be in front of you. That's a camera problem. You also have little idea as to what's coming next when you move side to side. And when Sonic jumped up rings came out of no where! Camera is horrible. Sure it follows Sonic the whole time, but it does so at great expense.
 
G

Guybrush Threepwood

Banned
Mockingbird said:
You walk forward but you'll have no idea what the hell will be in front of you.
Click to expand...

Edit: Oh, I thought by "forward" you meant side to side.

But that problem would easily be fixed by modern graphics. Older 3D games obviously had the annoying "pop-up graphics" that newer 3D games no longer have.
 
M

Mockingbird

Member
Guybrush Threepwood said:
Uh... isn't that exactly what every 2D Sonic game (and every other 2D side-scroller ever for that matter) is like?

I thought people liked those.
Click to expand...

No it's not. When you're moving foward in something SMB, your character is centered so you have time to react to the upcoming objects. If Sonic X-treme was 2-D this is sort of like the Sonic being on the edge of the screen, so you have no idea what the hell to expect. Yes, it's centered when he moves side-to-side, but because of the fishbowl distortion there leaves very little room on both sides for you to react to. It's like not having the whole screen. And when you move towards the screen who knows what the hell you're walking into. Maybe even off a cliff.

Guybrush Threepwood said:
Edit: Oh, I thought by "forward" you meant side to side.

But that problem would easily be fixed by modern graphics. Older 3D games obviously had the annoying "pop-up graphics" that newer 3D games no longer have.
Click to expand...

Graphics won't fix that. A new camera will.
 
L

laesperanzapaz

Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
They were never using the NiGHTS engine. That's a huge misconception. Sonic Xtreme has a really complicated history, but basically the gist regarding the NiGHTS engine thing is this: Sonic Xtreme used two different gameplay engines that were developed independent of each other. The main level engine and the boss level engine were these two. At some point the guys doing the boss engine got an eyeful of NiGHTS and fell in love, and redid the boss engine to really closely mimic NiGHTS.

SEGA execs saw this, loved it, and told them to use that same engine for the main game. Somewhere along the line, Naka saw this stuff, assumed the imitation was the real thing, and freaked out that they were using NiGHTS assets. He was super-protective of NiGHTS (probably a major contributor to why we didn't get a sequel until he left) and threatened to quit over this. I'm sure he had it explained to him at some point because he didn't quit.

Sonic Xtreme was just a heavily troubled project that came down to the wire in a timing sense. It had been in development for years and years, switching platforms twice, and there was a date seen as a "do-or-die" date for the project. One of the key team members unfortunately got very sick near the "do-or-die" date and there was no way the game would be finished in time.

The game is the stuff of legend now, but really, I don't think people would have received it very favourably. It did nothing to convey the speed a Sonic game should have, and the controls (this was pre-Mario 64 era so people didn't know the right way to do it) were more Bug! than Crash Bandicoot, if you catch my drift. They probably should have buttoned it up and released it anyway, from a market point of view, but I don't shed any tears that they didn't.
Click to expand...

i love you. i'll make a mental note to refer to you as teh Sega wikipedia.


on another note: did SMG rip off some ideas from this game? XD
 
B

Baryn

Banned
Ugh, after years of it, the bitter tears over Sonic Adventure have gone from ignorant to fucking annoying. It is a good game. An amazing game, even, for the time.

And this game looks (and plays) awful, awful, awful.
 
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