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Sony closes Evolution Studios (Motorstorm, Driveclub)

Yeah, we can stop with this bullshit. I'm sick of GAF saying Bloodborne sold amazingly well for a new IP and then calling Driveclub a failure when they both sold similar numbers (not to mention Season Pass).

Driveclub is being sold at 9.99 euros for the game a season pass right now. It made have sold decent numbers but the price crashed almost instantly in Europe at least and was in pretty much every console bundle for a while.

On top of that the game had an extra year of development on top of what was planned. That delay would of cost Sony a lot of money and to have an awful launch after that would of soured Sony on the studio. It was supposed to be a big launch title and it missed launch by a year.
 
Now you are making me think theyll just fit within PD...

ps3ud0 8)

LOL. You really want them to stay with Sony don't you?

tbh I still dont understand why Sony doesnt seem to farm out a lot of the model/track work to third parties like Turn 10 does

That's up to the individual studios to decide, I guess? Farming out stuff like that and ensuring quality requires a specific organizational structure, which I don't see in most Sony studios. Most of them seem to run very lean, and flat.

What happens to Driveclub along with its upcoming updates, VR and potential season 2? Sony are axing the game as well? Evolution being shut down was long coming but it would suck real bad if Sony just pull the plug on everything Driveclub.

There is no official (or unofficial) word on it. For now, I'm assuming the worst. They'll keep the servers up until demand dies down, I guess?
 
No way that is the best choice, if they used the same engine to make a Motorstorm or a diferent racing game I can't see how it wouldn't be profitable. Their mistake was focusing on multiplayer when they didn't know what thy were doing.

They could use that money to make even more money than just profitable.
 
It's unfortunate... Driveclub really had some amazing post-launch support, but the initial issues must have had a major impact on sales. It was seen as a complete disaster by so many people, whereas the amazing support that the game received later on wasn't really publicized. A lot of people like DC, but how many actually paid full price for it?

The reality though is if a studio isn't making any money, the publisher has little reason to keep it around.
 
Kind of expected since they aren't allowed to make stylish racer like Motorstorm, Sony probably don't feel like needing to studio making realistic looking racers in today's market
 
If studios are forced to only ever produce mega 'hits' or face closure, than the larger parent company that owns them is in my opinion missing the bigger picture. You keep the studios that deliver great games, irrespective of the sales volume, so long as they don't end up costing you money (Eg you at least break even, or close to). A bit like movie studios where the majority of releases actually don't make those massive profits, which are made up by just a few blockbuster releases. But they continue to keep funding more alternative releases either way, as it not only gives you a more diversified catalogue (great for consumers), but a greater a chance that something uniquely or unexpectedly special might filter through.

Now I don't know if Evolution was costing Sony money, but given Driveclub has actually sold pretty well, and that the team was already downsized in a big way before this closure, I can't imagine they would have been an exponentially expensive studio to maintain. I really think this move is a blunder on Sony's part. A highly talented studio that has consistently made great games. They should have at least seen the downsizing or re-managing through.

Kinda funny since Sony's whole philosophy was that the heavy hitters like Uncharted and GT are here to offset the underperforming titles so that they can keep having a diverse lineup.

I guess that's not the case anymore.

Let's look at a studio like Media Molecule. It's a studio whos biggest hit is LBP. Tearaway, a game I love, did not set the charts on fire, in fact, you can easily say that was a massive bomb when it came to sales, but it didn't cost that much to make. It was a small team that made it and it didn't hemorrhage money, and it was done rather quickly. No one has unrealistic expectations that Dreams is going to be a massive financial success, it's a really niche game for a very specific audience, but Sony continues to fund that studio because they are probably managed really well (as in their games don't cost an arm and a leg to make and probably make enough back to stay viable).

While Gmaes like Uncharted or God of War do help to offset some of the smaller/niche titles, they are not there to also prop up studios that try to make AAA type games that don't sell like AAA type games. I can only begin to imagine how much Evo blew away with building this engine + almost a year of development time + stumbling out of the gates.
 
That was Sony's philosophy last gen actually.

PS3 era SCE funded/published games:



I want that Sony back.
That's hardly to do with just Sony, but the whole industry: production costs are through the roof and it's no longer sustainable to have any flops at all (which they did have a lot of during the PS3 era). Just look at the overall amount of games released and/or games per publisher since the transition to this generation.
 
Yeah, we can stop with this bullshit. I'm sick of GAF saying Bloodborne sold amazingly well for a new IP and then calling Driveclub a failure when they both sold similar numbers (not to mention Season Pass).

People were delusional about Bloodborne and Souls sellability so they now just declare it's numbers huge when its still very successful but not really that main stream.

Driveclub failed as a project though; never recover post launch.
 
GRIP, currently on Steam Early Access, coming to PS4
http://www.gripvideogame.com/
lfvMWHj.gif
Damn. Definitely keeping an eye for the console release. Rollcage 1 & 2 were some of my favorite PS1 games.
 
Bloodborne surely cost less to make than Drive Club and most of its sales were at full price or close to it while Drive Club had a lot of bargain bin sales.

You had bargain bin sales for Bloodborne too. You could have picked it up for $20 during last Black Friday in the US and it was also $20 at various retailers near the end of the year in Canada. And that is with the crap Canadian dollar.

If Phil was to blame for miss managing lionhead who gets the blame at Sony

You would think in a thread about many people losing their jobs over a studio closure that posters would defend their preferred publisher in a more appropriate thread.
 
If studios are forced to only ever produce mega 'hits' or face closure, then the larger parent company that owns them is in my opinion missing the bigger picture. You keep the studios that deliver great games, irrespective of the sales volume, so long as they don't end up costing you money (Eg you at least break even, or close to). A bit like movie studios where the majority of releases actually don't make those massive profits, which are made up by just a few blockbuster releases. But they continue to keep funding more alternative releases either way, as it not only gives you a more diversified catalogue (great for consumers), but a greater a chance that something uniquely or unexpectedly special might filter through.

Now I don't know if Evolution was costing Sony money, but given Driveclub has actually sold pretty well, and that the team was already downsized in a big way before this closure, I can't imagine they would have been an exponentially expensive studio to maintain. I really think this move is a blunder on Sony's part. A highly talented studio that has consistently made great games. They should have at least seen the downsizing or re-managing through.

Yes you can do that but when you have another IP that sell a huge amount GT it might not be worth it .
Also it's not like the racing games are really selling that well and we have been seeing this since last gen.
And Evo has not made a hit since MS1 .
 
Yeah, we can stop with this bullshit. I'm sick of GAF saying Bloodborne sold amazingly well for a new IP and then calling Driveclub a failure when they both sold similar numbers (not to mention Season Pass).

Bloodborne wasnt delayed for over 12 months, it didnt meet with mediocre scores and even after said delay it also didn't release broken, add in the PSN+ situation with drive club and only a fool would compare them.

People are not remembering what a shit show driveclub was on release, how much it tarnished sony, the stuido and made the IP toxic for any sort of follow up.

Yes they did great with the DLC, i brought that and on retail, but theres no denying from a business angle this makes total sense.
 
You had bargain bin sales for Bloodborne too. You could have picked it up for $20 during last Black Friday in the US and it was also $20 at various retailers near the end of the year in Canada. And that is with the crap Canadian dollar.

Bloodborne was already over 2 million sold before the holiday season(sold 1 million about 10 days). It also wasn't delayed for year.
 
People were delusional about Bloodborne and Souls sellability so they now just declare it's numbers huge when its still very successful but not really that main stream.

Driveclub failed as a project though; never recover post launch.

I know it's harsh but I just love the fact splatoon outsold bloodborne by two fold. Only because splatoon was the case of much ridicule on here before launch and bloodborne gets so much praise. I like both games so I just find it entertaining. I honestly thought bloodborne was on like 5 million easy. Nearly 40 million PS4s out there and it sells to only 5 percent of the fanbase. What are they buying :(
 
LOL. You really want them to stay with Sony don't you?
Not really - now confused what the tidbits of replies you've made mean. People at Evo aren't complaining at losing their jobs but neither are staying within Sony.

Are they all moving as a going concern elsewhere or potentially becoming their own entity?!?

ps3ud0 8)
 
I know it's harsh but I just love the fact splatoon outsold bloodborne by two fold. Only because splatoon was the case of much ridicule on here before launch and bloodborne gets so much praise. I like both games so I just find it entertaining. I honestly thought bloodborne was on like 5 million easy. Nearly 40 million PS4s out there and it sells to only 5 percent of the fanbase. What are they buying :(

I'm sure you do and we all know why.

People were delusional about Bloodborne and Souls sellability so they now just declare it's numbers huge when its still very successful but not really that main stream.

The high end predictions for Bloodborne for were 3 to 4 millio sold lifetime. I believe 3 million is well within reach so I not sure what people you are talking about overestimating it sales potential. It exceed most people's expecatations. Don't try to re-write history and pretend it was predicted to do Uncharted numbers.
 
I know it's harsh but I just love the fact splatoon outsold bloodborne by two fold. Only because splatoon was the case of much ridicule on here before launch and bloodborne gets so much praise. I like both games so I just find it entertaining. I honestly thought bloodborne was on like 5 million easy. Nearly 40 million PS4s out there and it sells to only 5 percent of the fanbase. What are they buying :(

So a soul game is going to sell 5 million on one system when it never get close to that number on 3 systems .
I really hope you are joking .
Soul games sell okay but they don't do huge numbers .
 
I don't understand the point of closing talented studios. It makes no sense.
 
What is that list meant to be? You know Sony released more than those games in the last few years...

...no. Where are the Puppeters, Tokyo Jungles, Journeys, Flowers of this gen?
Sony got lazy? No, they just got into a cost-effective, entirely profit based sustainable releases market strategy, and that's totally understandable, they just don't take as much risks anymore. They've become bland and predictable...
 
Yes you can do that but when you have another IP that sell a huge amount GT it might not be worth it .
Also it's not like the racing games are really selling that well and we have been seeing this since last gen.
And Evo has not made a hit since MS1 .

2-3 million in all honesty should be sufficient, and speaking from an experience perspective, I've had more fun with Driveclub than any GT game since GT3. They do not even compete in the same genre of racer either.

Someone earlier mentioned the money invested by Evo on their engine alone, but you know what, look at the damn results. One of the most impressive engines currently available, and well ahead of the competition in so many ways. Polyphony could actually stand to learn so many things from Evo, and not the other way around.
 
I don't understand the point of closing talented studios. It makes no sense.

Talent doesnt always translate into profit. You also have to think about how much money Sony had to spend on the game post-launch just to get the game running properly.

The market for driving games is also not what it was, and they already have Polyphony spending 100% of their time on GT.
 
Couldn't they give Driveclub VR a chance first?!!! Fucking hell...Don't tell me it would conflict with GT Sport, like that is going to come out anytime soon.
 
...no. Where are the Puppeters, Tokyo Jungles, Journeys, Flowers of this gen?
Sony got lazy? No, they just cost-effective, entirely profit based sustainable releases, and that's totally understandable, they just don't take as much risk anymore. They've become bland predictable...
Like pretty much all other AAA studios in the market: there are no investments left for titles like mentioned above because the amounts are much higher, as well as risks involved, and expected returns probably even lower than they just used to be.
 
Bloodborne surely cost less to make than Drive Club and most of its sales were at full price or close to it while Drive Club had a lot of bargain bin sales.

Normally i dont do this but that is a lot of talk without a lot of numbers.

The few people i know who have BB (myself included) got it for $40 or less.
 
Whilst development tools have certainly taken a stride forward and definitely lowered the barrier to entry for indie developers, they also haven't made a major dent to the overall daunting process, at least when it comes to most western developers (UE4 has gained a strong foothold in Japan, but that's also largely because they were already so badly behind in iteration efficiency compared to even most companies working with proprietary sw). Better tools are not a new thing, and have been a constant target of iteration in the industry since early years (not to say that it's not something that we still need to work on, a lot), but they are not the silver bullet to enormous scope and complexity of games. A toolset doesn't make a 500-man production into a 100-man production.


Well we (as an industry) have iterated on project management and production for closer to 40 years, and still acknowledge that it's fucking tough, not to mention that there isn't even a clear correlation between "great agile management principles" and results, as outlined by the Game Outcomes Project. Brick-and-mortar is not really the main source of costs and going virtual in game production has usually resulted in disasters when you add the scope of AAA games. Outsourcing is already a massive thing in the industry, and definitely helps keep costs down a bit and scaling productions better (as not to have to continue the hire-fire-hire cycle).


Unfortunately, that does not mean you even get the money to develop in first place, nor is it realistic for most businesses. I mean, where do you get at least 10-20 million by promising that you are not even expecting a decent profit, but carry a massive risk (which is inherent to most game productions).


Of course we do, all the time. But as with nearly everything related to game development, there is no silver bullet, not even a copper one. The AAA industry can't simply downscale back to last-era production values and quality. Consumers expect things to improve, not to go 5 years back in time.

-Oh absolutely, I never intended my post to be taken as a silver bullet solution, I've been in business long enough to know that such rarely exist and even more so when you're talking millions of dollars and thousands of jobs/responsibilities. My overarching point is that while strives are being made, we have a long way to go.

-Thank you for the link, that was a very interesting read and lots of good information in there. I won't deny that specific styles of management is needed depending on the needs of the organization, that's more or less obvious no two businesses are the same. I do however think there is value in taking information like this and measuring it against your business/project needs and tailoring and tweaking that model over time to maximize efficiency. I'd already imagine most large gaming company's already do this. Dumping Brick and Mortar again is no silver bullet, but was simply brought up as a potential cost saving solution. Asset creation is another area that needs to be addressed.

-As I said in my original post, it's about priorities really. Don't have you to tell you but video games and the various ways to distribute/monetize them are very diverse now more than ever. If you're naturally pitching something larger in scale, that financial risk does become a concern. On the other hand a project more moderate, budget wise, in scope has the potential opportunity to give you a higher ROI with less risk depending on your goals for that project. Are you trying to pitch Assassin's Creed, Halo or Tomb Raider or are you trying to pitch Rocket League, Minecraft or Ark: Survival Evolved? While different, all these games successful in their own ways. There is no perfect answer here, it comes down to individual goals.

-As I said earlier, I know well that there is no silver bullet and never intended it to be so my bad if it came off like that. I don't know if I necessarily agree with your following statement in absolute terms of AAA, for one diminishing returns is a real thing and two AAA graphics doesn't guarantee a game success. Regardless, the only companies that are going to be pushing AAA production are the consolidated few that are doing it now and that is simply because they've built their brand and thus have the money to do so and price out any competition, regardless of game development/workflow tools and industry trends. I believe Nirolak touched on this.

As more investment is put into development/workflow, theoretically cost and time can go down. How much would one consider satisfactory ultimately depends on the person.
 
I don't understand the point of closing talented studios. It makes no sense.

I wanted to start a thread... but Keep the talent, remove the people in charge of the mistake? I mean the games looked AMAZING... the sound was AMAZING.

also, developers should have more say in marketing no?

DriveClub's marketing was through releasing grainy videos through fucking facebook. :/

every time, Rushy would have to wait until something was uploaded.
 
No... no... no...!
 
The support staff are still there - the site is the hub of European QA. xDev is also there as well.

Studio Liverpool would have put out a solid, functioning Wipeout title on launch at 60fps. Evolution were a year over schedule with Driveclub, a game that took a long time after launch to work at all.

Why does this statement continue to be perpetrated.

Driveclub had a FULLY FUNCTIONAL single player tour mode at day one of it's release. It was not an online only game.

Yes the game had networking issues at launch, and the connectivity issues with the online leaderboard and club system was inconsistent, but the continuing stated myth that implies that Driveclub was in a completely non-functioning state at launch is irrevocably false.
 
Like pretty much all other AAA studios in the market: there are no investments left for titles like mentioned above because the amounts are much higher, as well as risks involved, and expected returns probably even lower than they just used to be.

I know, and that sucks.
 
Let's look at a studio like Media Molecule. It's a studio whos biggest hit is LBP. Tearaway, a game I love, did not set the charts on fire, in fact, you can easily say that was a massive bomb when it came to sales, but it didn't cost that much to make. It was a small team that made it and it didn't hemorrhage money, and it was done rather quickly. No one has unrealistic expectations that Dreams is going to be a massive financial success, it's a really niche game for a very specific audience, but Sony continues to fund that studio because they are probably managed really well (as in their games don't cost an arm and a leg to make and probably make enough back to stay viable).

While Gmaes like Uncharted or God of War do help to offset some of the smaller/niche titles, they are not there to also prop up studios that try to make AAA type games that don't sell like AAA type games. I can only begin to imagine how much Evo blew away with building this engine + almost a year of development time + stumbling out of the gates.

It’s a hit-driven business. We look at our financial results of the titles, and probably three or four out of ten make money, and maybe one or two make all the money to cover the cost of the others titles. So we have to be able to maintain that hit ratio at a certain level to be able to continue in the business, so we always try to find out and support and help grow the talent. That’s the most important work that I believe myself and some of my management team at worldwide studios are doing.

According to Yoshida, at least 2 years ago that was what the big AAA franchises were supposed to do.

I don't know how much Driveclub costed but a staff of 100 people isn't that much for a game that pushed 2 million copies and a season pass not to much Driveclub Bikes.
 
So a soul game is going to sell 5 million on one system when it never get close to that number on 3 systems .
I really hope you are joking .
Soul games sell okay but they don't do huge numbers .

Bias tend to cloud the mind and reality. Hey let's predict some unrealistic number and then say the game failed when it didn't hit said number.
 
...no. Where are the Puppeters, Tokyo Jungles, Journeys, Flowers of this gen?
Sony got lazy? No, they arer just cost-effective, entirely profit based sustainable releases market strategy, and that's totally understandable, they just don't take as much risks anymore. They've become bland and predictable...

The likes of everybody's gone to the rapture, abzu what remains of edith finch, entwined, hohokum, plus a ton of partnerships like The Vanishing of Ethan Carter are what you are asking for...
 
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