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[GribbleGrunger]

I'm 99% certain (that's impossible!) BC is going to be coming to the PS5:

https://www.j-platpat.inpit.go.jp/web/PU/JPA_H31505046/23C0ECC1DA1FEA581AE143E9D6817708

In order to deal with a problem caused by a bus operation difference when executing a legacy application with a new device, a new device emulates the bus operation of the legacy device and executes the legacy application You can adjust the bus performance when you do.

 

[Smoke6]

This mean FUUL BC correct?

 

[GribbleGrunger]

This mean FUUL BC correct?

Don't ask me. I post the news but don't understand it ...

 

[Fake]

Hope so.

 

[nowhat]

Don't ask me. I post the news but don't understand it ...

I find your honesty refreshing, kudos.

 

[ethomaz]

That looks like expensive... a dedicated physical bus just for BC???

 

[levyjl1988]

Playstation makes us buy iteration after iteration of the same game remastered. Now they want to put backwards compatability? For all the game studios that dropped won’t be supported because of liscencing issues, I feel that it would be in the exact same position as Microsoft. Asking for permission before they get the green light.

It’s such a shame. I doubt we’ll ever get SoulCalibur IV backwards compatable because of the liscensing issues with Star Wars and the remived DLC from the marketplace.

 

[Geki-D]

It would be pretty funny if the PS5 launched with no BC and because Sony sits on all of the patients for future consoles having it, no other platform could have BC either.

Level playing field by scorched earth, baby.

(Of course MS has already mastered BC, so this can only really mean Sony is looking into BC too)

 

[a multicultural team of v]

I feel like I remember reading about this exact issue - needing to artificially match a previous consoles bus or other clockspeed for emulation purposes - years ago, but I can't remember what. Like maybe the Xbone and 360, or even the PS4 Pro perhaps? Im surprised this is patentable at this point, if I've heard of it then surely people who know what the hell they are talking about have as well.

Edit: it might have even been like later revisions of the PSX or PS2 needing to downclock themselves because they had to use newer, faster hardware in the revisions and it would have broken compatibility if they didn't. Argh this is going to bother me if I dont remember lol

 

[DanielsM]

It would be pretty funny if the PS5 launched with no BC and because Sony sits on all of the patients for future consoles having it, no other platform could have BC either.

Level playing field by scorched earth, baby.

(Of course MS has already mastered BC, so this can only really mean Sony is looking into BC too)

Not exactly sure what this means. Funny, I can play run an emulator on my original Xbox and play N64 games on it and it had nothing to do with either Nintendo or Microsoft. (My neighbor is convinced I only can do it because of dark magic and that I have a pact with Devil)

 

[vkbest]

Playstation makes us buy iteration after iteration of the same game remastered. Now they want to put backwards compatability? For all the game studios that dropped won’t be supported because of liscencing issues, I feel that it would be in the exact same position as Microsoft. Asking for permission before they get the green light.

It’s such a shame. I doubt we’ll ever get SoulCalibur IV backwards compatable because of the liscensing issues with Star Wars and the remived DLC from the marketplace.

They are getting much money from PSN lately. So what is the better way for making more money on PS5? People could buy any game from at least PS4.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

(again) Almost certainly PS4 Pro related. Patent dates back to 2016. At this point PS5 will have to have PS4 BC as it would be Sony's new hubris moment if they don't. They already have problems with their cross-play messaging so adding no BC to the mix....

 

[mcjmetroid]

OH ya I don't need to see patents to know this is coming.
It's the biggest issue Sony has going into the next generation.
You do not want to release a PS5 not allowing your PSN account to be transferred over properly.

I certainly aren't buying a PS5 unless it's BC.

 

[The Snake]

OH ya I don't need to see patents to know this is coming.
It's the biggest issue Sony has going into the next generation.
You do not want to release a PS5 not allowing your PSN account to be transferred over properly.

I certainly aren't buying a PS5 unless it's BC.

I've mentioned it before but I would totally be down with paying extra for some sort of "premium" PlayStation model that could play all of my old discs as well as my digital content. Otherwise I have a feeling I won't be participating in the next gen-- the artless, digital-only future people predict doesn't seem that interesting to me.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

I dont know why this is news. I’d be shocked if it WEREN’T BC. These companies want their digital stores and subscription services to flourish. Only way that happens is if you can take your games with you.

 

[Shin]

BC

Backwards compatibility? lolol, see below, he's now president even.
Backwards alright......Sony is backwards...stupid company.

OT: there are a handful of patents to accompany this (I came across one from around October also among others.
So yeah the money PSN is making, the shift of John Kodera to boost business even further, you can get your ass they'll be making the best (or bare minimum/cheapest) use to keep you in their eco-system.

Also reminds of this legendary moment:

 

[PSFan]

I dont know why this is news. I’d be shocked if it WEREN’T BC. These companies want their digital stores and subscription services to flourish. Only way that happens is if you can take your games with you.

Well, they didn't want us to take our PSOne classics with us to PS4,

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I normally don't care about BC (I prefer to own the original system), but if they offer full disc-based backwards compatibility on the PS5 with all previous Playstation discs -- and perhaps some emulation/QoL features -- I'll buy it.

I'm quite content with the systems I have and don't really want another next-gen system, but a robust BC featureset would change my mind.

 

[zeorhymer]

Probably BC from PS4 to PS5 and seems to be a some code in the bus that does emulation. It doesn't seem to be a separate chip like they did with the PS3.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

Please make two models. I will buy the one with extra bus to play Killzone2 multiplayer in 60 fps!

 

[Nickolaidas]

(Sylvestro voice) Yethhhhhh ...

 

[yurinka]

They are getting much money from PSN lately. So what is the better way for making more money on PS5? People could buy any game from at least PS4.

Yup, and for Sony is cheaper to put there some old isos than to remake or remaster every single game.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Common theme of the BC patents is getting exactly what the game expects from the PS4...But I wonder if that also means, areas that could use framerate improvement will get none.

Also wonder if it will use PS4 assets, or PS4 Pro.

Also wonder if it'll allow further patching BEYOND the pro.

Many questions.

 

[Shin]

Many questions.

Ain't that the truth...
Then again as much as I'd like 95%+ games to "automatically" be enhanced by the new hardware the reality just might be that the cost outweighs the benefit so minimum effort.
It remains to be seen, until A company goes all in with what the continuation can or should mean it remains wishful thinking - at least for me.

 

[zeorhymer]

Common theme of the BC patents is getting exactly what the game expects from the PS4...But I wonder if that also means, areas that could use framerate improvement will get none.

Also wonder if it will use PS4 assets, or PS4 Pro.

Also wonder if it'll allow further patching BEYOND the pro.

Many questions.

In the original patent, it looks like the bus interfaces with the CPU and GPU. That would mean that it will use the newer hardware. My guess would be that it'll use the PRO versions of the game with improved frame rates due to the better CPU and GPU.

 

[Kazza]

PS4 BC is pretty much a given right now, but what are the chances of PS3 BC? Will the PS5 be powerful enough to do software emulation of PS3. Will the extra hardware mentioned in the OP help?

 

[Meh3D]

Backwards compatibility? lolol, see below, he's now president even.
Backwards alright......Sony is backwards...stupid company.

They have not announced any specifics regarding the next console besides that they're working on it. Ryan still hasn't "taken over" just yet. Sony results say otherwise.

 

[Ar¢tos]

PS4 BC is pretty much a given right now, but what are the chances of PS3 BC? Will the PS5 be powerful enough to do software emulation of PS3. Will the extra hardware mentioned in the OP help?

I don't think a low frequency Zen2 will be enough to brute force ps3 emulation, unless there is some customization to the APU specifically for it, or Sony finds a magic way to emulate the SPUs + RSX on the gpu and the PPE on the CPU. But the way the PPE needs to communicate with the SPUs makes that very hard to happen.

 

[Kagey K]

.

 

[Foxbat]

I normally don't care about BC (I prefer to own the original system), but if they offer full disc-based backwards compatibility on the PS5 with all previous Playstation discs -- and perhaps some emulation/QoL features -- I'll buy it.

I'm quite content with the systems I have and don't really want another next-gen system, but a robust BC featureset would change my mind.

Translation: "I only care about bc when Sony does it."

 

[Kagey K]

.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Translation: "I only care about bc when Sony does it."

Maybe he does not care too much about Xbox games, but cares about Sony ones. Why do people who try to call out others for being fanboys, have the very same tarnished post history of their own?

(It was a rhetorical question.)

Also, how does this help this thread/discussion, at all?

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Translation: "I only care about bc when Sony does it."

Uh, no? I don't have a massive library of Xbox games sitting on my shelf compared to a few hundred PSX, PS1, PS2, and PS3 games, that's why. If I cared about Xbox's back catalogue I would already own an Xbox.

You missed the implication that I'm skipping Sony's next console unless they include it. That doesn't sound very Sony-loyal to me...

 

[Sub_Level]

PS4 bc is an absolute must for PS5. Makes a launch window purchase much more justifiable.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Cant wait to rebuy all my old games, Sony.

 

[Domisto]

I'm almost certainly getting a PS5 regardless, but as I skipped the PS4, if it was backwards compatible with just that it would be a very nice bonus.

 

[ZywyPL]

PS4 BC is pretty much a given right now [,..]

Yup. The question now is the quality of that BC? The "butterfly" design in PS4 Pro didn't worked out well, to say the least, so if the PS5 will also lock itself to PS4-like performance mode so the old games still drop framerate and/or resolution, than sorry but screw such BC.

I don't think a low frequency Zen2 will be enough to brute force ps3 emulation, unless there is some customization to the APU specifically for it, or Sony finds a magic way to emulate the SPUs + RSX on the gpu and the PPE on the CPU. But the way the PPE needs to communicate with the SPUs makes that very hard to happen.

MS figured out how to re-compile the PPC tasks into x86 tasks long time ago, so it can't be really that hard. RSX is just an old tech Geforce GPU, nothing a modern, unified shader-based GPU cannot do. So what's really tricky is the SPUs emulation, which I think all comes down to figuring out whether the tasks each of the SPU does in a given game should be re-compiled to work on either the CPU or the GPU, because that's what they were used for, to either offload work from the CPU or GPU, but from what I know the SPUs were mostly used in the graphics department, so again, nothing a modern GPU can't handle. The question is if/how much Sony wants to commit themselves into proper BC with the PS3?

 

[LordOfChaos]

PS4 BC is pretty much a given right now, but what are the chances of PS3 BC? Will the PS5 be powerful enough to do software emulation of PS3. Will the extra hardware mentioned in the OP help?

I don't think a low frequency Zen2 will be enough to brute force ps3 emulation, unless there is some customization to the APU specifically for it, or Sony finds a magic way to emulate the SPUs + RSX on the gpu and the PPE on the CPU. But the way the PPE needs to communicate with the SPUs makes that very hard to happen.

MS figured out how to re-compile the PPC tasks into x86 tasks long time ago, so it can't be really that hard. RSX is just an old tech Geforce GPU, nothing a modern, unified shader-based GPU cannot do. So what's really tricky is the SPUs emulation, which I think all comes down to figuring out whether the tasks each of the SPU does in a given game should be re-compiled to work on either the CPU or the GPU, because that's what they were used for, to either offload work from the CPU or GPU, but from what I know the SPUs were mostly used in the graphics department, so again, nothing a modern GPU can't handle. The question is if/how much Sony wants to commit themselves into proper BC with the PS3?

The major problem with emulating Cell until recently has been that it was so SIMD heavy compared to every general purpose processor. As of now several consumer processors have overcome that by a fair stretch, but as of Ryzen 1.0, not so much.

There was a rumor that Ryzen 2 would bring SIMD more in line with Intel and address that one major shortfall of it, but whether that makes it into the PS5, and whether they put the effort in after, those are all to be seen.

https://asteroidsathome.net/boinc/cpu_list.php

So my answer is, "maybe"? Not an overly optimistic maybe though, too many "IF" statements at play, and also yeah, have to consider that it would be lower clocked than the desktop parts.

As for re-architecting games to use GPGPU instead of SPUs, that would be a lot more manual labor than I would expect for this.

 

[IbizaPocholo]

Updated Sony patent explains how PS5 backwards compatibility is going to work

Sony's goal with PS5 backwards compatibility is for legacy software to run optimally on new hardware, but it's also inv…

www.vg247.com

 

[DESTROYA]

Very interesting.
Backwards compatibility for PS4 is a given but people expecting PS3 and below games might be disappointed.

 

[demigod]

Very interesting.
Backwards compatibility for PS4 is a given but people expecting PS3 and below games might be disappointed.

BELIEVE!!! Honestly if they want to move towards a digital future, they need to have BC from the beginning. I'm talking about digital that you buy on PSN and not physical BC.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Updated Sony patent explains how PS5 backwards compatibility is going to work

Sony's goal with PS5 backwards compatibility is for legacy software to run optimally on new hardware, but it's also inv…

www.vg247.com

I might understand this wrong but that method described in the article makes it sound like its being used for systems that have completely different architecture, ie PS2, rather than the PS4.

 

[Kagey K]

I might understand this wrong but that method described in the article makes it sound like its being used for systems that have completely different architecture, ie PS2, rather than the PS4.

Looks like it’s more the problem MS had this gen. They licensed the software for the hardware at the time.

They won’t be able to put PS2 software on PS5 unless they re-license it or find a workaround.

If not for licensing there would be many more games available already, I’m sure.

 

[Inviusx]

Still unsure if this is all leading towards BC for PS1/2/3/4 or if we're still just talking about PS4 BC (which is cool but less exciting).

 

[Kagey K]

Still unsure if this is all leading towards BC for PS1/2/3/4 or if we're still just talking about PS4 BC (which is cool but less exciting).

At this time it’s best to assume PS4 and PS4 only, Its really the safest bet.

 

[KenHero]

Still unsure if this is all leading towards BC for PS1/2/3/4 or if we're still just talking about PS4 BC (which is cool but less exciting).

There is no CD drive in PS5 so PS1 is excluded.

However, both PS3 and 4 had working emulators of PS1/2/PSP found in firmware though - they were used for "remastered" PSP games and PS1/2 classics.

 

[The_Mike]

There is no CD drive in PS5 so PS1 is excluded.

However, both PS3 and 4 had working emulators of PS1/2/PSP found in firmware though - they were used for "remastered" PSP games and PS1/2 classics.

A blu ray drive is able to read CDs though, so technically it could.

 

[Inviusx]

There is no CD drive in PS5 so PS1 is excluded.

However, both PS3 and 4 had working emulators of PS1/2/PSP found in firmware though - they were used for "remastered" PSP games and PS1/2 classics.

Yeah I can't really see how they could make it work for anything other than PS4. Even PS3 seems like a pipe dream given the batshit crazy architecture of that thing.

*edit

I think it would be beyond anyones wildest dreams if they got Cerny onstage to say that every Playstation game ever made will run on PS5. That would be such a badass statement to make.

 

[Sub_Level]

There is no CD drive in PS5 so PS1 is excluded.

Cds and dvds are compatible with bluray drives lol

 

[KenHero]

Well I though it is only compatibile with DVD for some reason. My bad, sorry!

Full compatibility would be great but it would give us too much games at once xD.