I dream about backwards compatibility.
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Sony has already started R&D on the PS5
- Thread starter ShogunDarius
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I dream about backwards compatibility.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
Meaningless FUD.
Every console in existence "already struggled with some games" as soon as they launched.
I'm guessing:
2018/19 announcement & launch.
Specs targeted at creating presence in VR as a baseline, aimed at the second Morpheus iteration. So that could be 1440p/90fps with a lot of overhead for bells & whistles like GI, ray-tracing variants & naturalistic physics processes.
It will be capable of 4k/60. But like today's consoles that can push 1080/120 (which has been done for a Mopheus demo), you won't get the full shiny-shiny at that output, which will be down to developer decisions.
32gb HBM.
Not sure about SSD. It'll be in there, but I suspect it'll most likely be a hybrid drive with a 1tb SSD component & a couple TB 7200rpm HDD.
4K BD playback, media functions like DLNA on board from the start.
Lossless audio playback.
Of all of this speculation, I think that the rewuirements for VR will be the driver of the performance target for the hardware.
2018/19 announcement & launch.
Specs targeted at creating presence in VR as a baseline, aimed at the second Morpheus iteration. So that could be 1440p/90fps with a lot of overhead for bells & whistles like GI, ray-tracing variants & naturalistic physics processes.
It will be capable of 4k/60. But like today's consoles that can push 1080/120 (which has been done for a Mopheus demo), you won't get the full shiny-shiny at that output, which will be down to developer decisions.
32gb HBM.
Not sure about SSD. It'll be in there, but I suspect it'll most likely be a hybrid drive with a 1tb SSD component & a couple TB 7200rpm HDD.
4K BD playback, media functions like DLNA on board from the start.
Lossless audio playback.
Of all of this speculation, I think that the rewuirements for VR will be the driver of the performance target for the hardware.
It's a necessity in today's account driven, games as a service platforms. If you tie all that to hardware that will last only 6-7 years, again, we're gonna have a problem.
Imagine if you lost your Steam library every time you bought a new video card? I don't want to lose my digital library again. It's just not acceptable.
JordanN
Banned
Actually, I think I can confirm there wont be a Vita successor.
Vita successor = PS4 level hardware.
Look at PS4 right now and how many Japanese developers are even on it? Very few. Only the West mostly supports it but they don't want to support handhelds.
PS Vita is basically a mini-PS3 and the non-Western games on it do not really push it so all that extra power would be going towards nothing.
That could either be the best launch ever...
Or a sequel to the Xbox One launch with Kinect 2.0 shoehorned into every box.
All depends on how well Morpheus 1.0 sells/works.
Roberto Larcos
Member
But what if Vita successor = Xperia Z4 level hardware?
Look at mobile right now and how many Japanese developers are on it. Tons. Konami, Square Enix and SEGA are all going deeper into it, and they're all happy with mobile right now.
Zeyphersan
Banned
Pretty much. I'm leaving behind so many PS3 PSN games and it's unacceptable. I'm sort of okay with it because thank god they ditched Cell, but it's still a shitty feeling
If PS5 can't play all my PS4 games, I probably won't buy it until the very end of the generation
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
If anything, that's late.
entremet
Member
Pretty sure they started R/D on PS5 even before the PS4 was officially announced. That's how product development works.
ShooterMcTavish
Banned
I think ps4 pushes closer to 190-200 watts actually, so I see 200 as the ceiling. That said, in 2019-2020 you can get some serious performance under that power envelope. Stacking and 14-10nm will bring game changing evolutionary jumps in performance.
The Omega Man
Member
I'd buy a 600$ console with cutting edge hardware, it has to be easy to program for too with all that "code to the metal" thing.
Cerny get to it.
Cerny get to it.
KillaKalz347
Banned
I'm hoping for a sub 14nm Zen+ CPU with an Arctic Islands or its successor dGPU. 32 or 64gb HBM2. Would be great to have an efficient dGPU in the PS5 since AMD is gonna go all out for the 400 series.
ShooterMcTavish
Banned
Nvm you were right, it's the PS3 I was thinking about that has a power draw around 190w. Still think 200 is the ceiling. I honestly think Sony and Microsoft were nervous that this could of been the last generation of consoles and played it more timid then previous generation.
Now that PS4 sales are going head to head with ps2 numbers, I think Sony comes out swinging again on power but focus on what made ps4 a hot seller. "Price point, ps plus, ease of development."
Now that PS4 sales are going head to head with ps2 numbers, I think Sony comes out swinging again on power but focus on what made ps4 a hot seller. "Price point, ps plus, ease of development."
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
well...yeah. Xbox One demonstrated what happens when you have a short R&D cycle and you rush a box out the door too quickly. Take as long as you need, Sony (and Microsoft, and Nintendo ... no rushed consoles, please)
JordanN
Banned
So you want the Vita successor to be a phone? I wouldn't call it a handheld then.
Yup.
PS5 won't be coming anytime soon it seems.
Which is great news for my wallet.
Roberto Larcos
Member
You may, but the PS3 showed most people won't.
Expect to see even less new AAA games if that happens. Most 3rd party developers haven't even fully come to grips with the new hardware on the PS4 & Xbox One yet.
Zeyphersan
Banned
I'm surprised by the number of people who want the Vita (or 3DS) successor to be a phone. That sounds like the worst possible option to me.
Roberto Larcos
Member
I think the only chance of a Vita successor will be in phone form. The dedicated handheld market is dying a very fast death both in Japan and worldwide. Far fewer people can justify spending £150 on a new handheld console when a phone plays games too – good games as well. And there could still be convergence between the two...
I mean, look at this beauty – phone and handheld console existing in perfect harmony:
I'd rather this than no Vita successor at all.
BlackProdigy
Member
GOAT Post
Sigh-
Not before 2020. Do you all want a next-generation console before the second Naughty Dog/343 Industry/Polyphony game even hits? The PS4 is selling like wildfire, but to launch a successor before it ever sees third generation titles from first party studios is a dangerous move. Consoles aren't chasing PC's here. They thrive and sell based on their ability to redefine platform and industry expectations.
Truncating this generation could desensitize the market place. I have no statistical data to suggest this, but I feel that if you end your support for a console and launch a new platform with very minor visual upgrades- you could be doing yourself and the industry a disservice.
Lastly, consoles aren't released because Sony thinks it's cool. Third parties, investors, and legacy platform lifeline must all be taken into consideration. The PS5 and the Cerny philosophy will be a fun to thing to watch out for, but to even embrace the notion that PS4 will be succeeded in 3-4 years is premature and silly.
Not before 2020. Do you all want a next-generation console before the second Naughty Dog/343 Industry/Polyphony game even hits? The PS4 is selling like wildfire, but to launch a successor before it ever sees third generation titles from first party studios is a dangerous move. Consoles aren't chasing PC's here. They thrive and sell based on their ability to redefine platform and industry expectations.
Truncating this generation could desensitize the market place. I have no statistical data to suggest this, but I feel that if you end your support for a console and launch a new platform with very minor visual upgrades- you could be doing yourself and the industry a disservice.
Lastly, consoles aren't released because Sony thinks it's cool. Third parties, investors, and legacy platform lifeline must all be taken into consideration. The PS5 and the Cerny philosophy will be a fun to thing to watch out for, but to even embrace the notion that PS4 will be succeeded in 3-4 years is premature and silly.
Roberto Larcos
Member
What if, as others suggested, consoles move to a more iterative future. Like PCs. A new one comes out every 2-3 years, the old version just plays the games at lower settings. Mandatory support for all games until (throwing this out there) 6 years after release. Would that, in your view, 'desensitize the marketplace'?
Zeyphersan
Banned
I think the only chance of a Vita successor will be in phone form. The dedicated handheld market is dying a very fast death both in Japan and worldwide. Far fewer people can justify spending £150 on a new handheld console when a phone plays games too good games as well. And there could still be convergence between the two...
I mean, look at this beauty phone and handheld console existing in perfect harmony:
I'd rather this than no Vita successor at all.
I don't know. I don't think the market wants something like that -- I'm having flashbacks to the NGage. Putting in the specs that people have come to expect in a phone (2G/3G/4G/LTE antennas, high resolution screens, etc) would only serve to drive up the price for those who would never actually use it as a phone (like me). I think when you create something like that that has to balance on the ergonomics and the battery life and all the things that people want out of both a phone and a handheld gaming system everyone comes away dissatisfied.
I'd like to be wrong, but I can't see them seem measly integrating like you're suggesting
JordanN
Banned
Now I'm curious. What games are people expecting to see if a new console did come out in 2017/2018?
Grand Theft Auto 6? Final Fantasy? Exclusive Call of Duty/Battlefield?
None of those games will be ready at launch nor is the installbase big enough to support them.
You would be playing the same games that are still being made for PS4/XBO for a long time...
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Yeah, this isn't really news.
A traditional model exists, and has existed for over 30 years. I think of Sega when I think of failed consoles trying to one up the predecessor. Sega launching 32X, Saturn, and Dreamcast one after the other burned- confused- and outright killed their credibility in the hardware pantheon.
Sony has a standing tradition of long form generations. It is diagnostic to the industry, in my opinion, to have a long form generation. The machines must be exploited and their disabilities must become obvious. For PS3 it was the alpha effects, low memory overhead, and platform complexity.
For PS4 we need time to see just how far we can push these boxes. It'll make a better PS5. I'm not an engineer, so I am sure those folks have a better understanding than I do. However, the greatest achievemnets in fidelity usually occur when a programmer has to figure out a solution and he is trapped inside a box. Just my two cents.
robertsan21
Member
Todays games are very demanding and we expect better and better grapichs. Thats the reason why i hope sony comes up with a machine that can be upgraded.
This works in a vacuum but with Microsoft around, I wouldn't take my time with the development of the PS5.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
I would certainly quit consoles. Maybe others feel different, but I think that the point of a console ecosystem is precisely to have a united platform. Not to mention, sooner or later, one developer is going to drop previous systems to achiever better fidelity in whatever aspect they want, and the publisher will happily accept, because it means forcing customers to purchase a system soon afterwards.
I don't think Microsoft is foolish enough to kill off the Xbox One before it even had it's chance to grow into something more. That sort of platform support can do a lot of harm to the Xbox brand.
GloriousBagel
Banned
They need help developing a game already? Wouldn't that mean that the console would have to be ready to go? Vita 2 confirmed.
Roberto Larcos
Member
That's why it requires Microsoft / Sony to be strict, but that doesn't make it impossible. If it doesn't run on the old hardware (which they will want to cater to because install base), then it can't be sold full stop. Differences in resolution, textures, AA, effects and possibly even framerate across 'generations' but still fundamentally the same game.
I'm also failing to see how it's not 'united'. Online would still be together, just as low-end and high-end PCs play TF2 together. Support would still be 6 years from launch minimum. The only difference is people arriving late can have a more future-proof device, and people who want better graphics can have that too.
The major downside I can see is a confusion among consumers. And short of painting a massive 'Xbox / PlayStation 2016 version' on the box and console itself, with a distinctly different hardware design, this would probably be difficult to overcome. But other than that, in my mind, I can't see many downsides compared to upsides.
Neuromancer
Member
I wonder how badly MS will manage to fuck up the Xbox Two reveal. I don't think Sony has anything to worry about.
Probably Little Deviants 2.
The better question is, by 2019-2020, will there be devs around big enough to afford running that kind of fidelity? Those assets don't suddenly stop being expensive because the HW is stronger
Yeah we need better procedural generation or aaa is fucked. As in very few games, very 'safe' games, few new ips, and shorter smaller games.
We need, need, need to get things done automatically. Need!
Nizz
Member
Fair enough, good point.
Roberto Larcos
Member
Yep. within the next few years, I think we'll see time becoming the real limiting factor in the progression of games. Of course, better tools means this can be mitigated somewhat.
Nintendojitsu
Banned
They're just getting back into the black. Do you honestly wish that they just toss more money into a bottomless pit full of gasoline and light a match?
Raven Prime
Member
I wonder if the next gen could already take advantage of photonic technology.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
No more AMD, please.
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