• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Sony sues George 'geohot' Hotz and fail0verflow over PS3 jailbreak.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Dunlop said:
Nope, but do you doubt it has happened? Especially in the PSP camp?
Click to expand...

Okay. Now that we've narrowed it down. Which developer has lost his or her job undoubtedly due to piracy in the 'PSP camp'?
 
[UPDATE]

01-12-11sonyls.jpg


Engadget said:
We figured Sony would follow up last night's temporary restraining order against Geohot and fail0verflow for distribution of the PS3 jailbreak with a copyright infringement lawsuit, and well, here it is. It's actually pretty straightforward, as far as these things go -- Sony alleges that George Hotz, Hector Martin Cantero, Sven Peter, and the rest of fail0verflow are:

• Violating §1201 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which forbids bypassing access control measures;
• Violating the federal Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, which forbids accessing computers without authorization;
• Guilty of contributory copyright infringement for encouraging and helping others to crack PS3s as well;
• Violating the California Computer Crime Law, which is the state computer fraud act (think of this as a backup fraud claim);
• Violating the PlayStation Network's Terms of Service (which feels meaningless, really);
• Interfering with Sony's relationships with other PSN customers (also meaningless);
• Trespassing on Sony's ownership right to the PS3 (this one feels weak) and;
• Misappropriating Sony's intellectual property (another weak argument, but there in case the copyright argument fails).


Sony's asking the court to forbid Geohot and fail0verflow from distributing the jailbreak and turn over all computer hardware and software that contain the jailbreak code, as well as unspecified damages and attorneys' fees. Yep, these boys done got sued -- and we're sure there'll be some serious fireworks once they lawyer up and fight right back.
Click to expand...

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/12/sony-follows-up-officially-sues-geohot-and-fail0verflow-over-ps/
 
Cruzader said:
PC = Open platform
PS3 = closed platform

Not sure why PC keeps getting compared to a console. Apples to oranges.

Also MS bans those using hacked FW from Live, Sony can too.
Click to expand...

PS3 used to be open, because it was able to run Linux. That is one of the reasons it was compared to a PC, not to mention its other numerous features, ports and open format support.

They took that feature away.
We know how that went.
 
Shadow780 said:
It's a legitimate concern, why should people wait for it to exist before voicing their opinions?
Click to expand...

I never said it wasn't a legitimate concern. I was merely pointing out the endless cycle this thread is in. A couple of hours ago people were actually discussing the lawsuits and debating the technicalities of it. Now we're back to the same discussions we've had in every PS3 homebrew related thread since the original jailbreak dongle was released.
 
Vinci said:
Okay. Now that we've narrowed it down. Which developer has lost his or her job undoubtedly due to piracy in the 'PSP camp'?
Click to expand...

Its not job loss.

Its the sickening fact that someone plays something for free that was made by sometimes hundreds of people all just trying to make a living for themselves.

Its theft and its disgusting.
 
charlequin said:
Full release of all fail0verflow tools to date online.

I think this strategy may not have played out quite how Sony was hoping.
Click to expand...
those behind github are likewise culpable for hosting said tools. regardless of any intrinsic worth github may have, it's clear that since these actions will help contribute to future game piracy, the site should be taken down.
 
Subliminal said:
Its not job loss.

Its the sickening fact that someone plays something for free that was made by sometimes hundreds of people all just trying to make a living for themselves.

Its theft and its disgusting.
Click to expand...

I don't believe any of the hacker supporters would disagree with you.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
Who is losing their jobs because of this?

What's ignorant about wanting to allow people to use their expensive hardware to do things that the platform holder didn't explicitly sign off on? The fact that this in turn often makes piracy possible is beside the point.
Click to expand...

I guess I should have worded my previous statement better but I feel, from the way I took in the situation, they have worked hard to find cracks in the hardware Sony put out. The guys who have found this may not have meant for it to be used as a way of piracy or stealing people's information but it might lead to others using what they provided, tools wise. Piracy always lead to lost in revenue which in turns lead to lost jobs. Again, it may not lead to this drastic level but you never know. I guess I keep thinking about the pure number of modded PSPs I have seen over the years during my time in retail. PSPs are being bought and against popular belief in the media, a lot of people do play them but due to hacking, your most common of consumers download pirating games for it. I still feel that there is a better way the hackers could deal with their upset feelings with Sony.
 
jmdajr said:
I wonder how many homebrew supporters are pro-guns.
Yeah I know, one is entertainment and the other is people's lives.


But the main point seems to be in the sense of..."guns don't kill people, ...people do."

Freedoms has it's consequences. Everyone has a different point of view of what they want to put up with.
Click to expand...

jesus, put the crack pipe down and get the fuck outta here. worst analogy in the history of internet.

yeah, i'm sure everyone's jailbroken ps3s are gonna go more than meets the eye (along with the cheesy transformation sound) and start shooting plasma missiles at random innocents.
 
captmcblack said:
PS3 used to be open, because it was able to run Linux. That is one of the reasons it was compared to a PC, not to mention its other numerous features, ports and open format support.

They took that feature away.
We know how that went.
Click to expand...
It wasnt trully open since Linux itself was limited and yea those were nice "open" features but PC and PS3 are 2 different beasts. Comparing PC piracy with PS3 piracy though is/will be similar.(easy)

Anyhow due to all the hacking, im sure most of these "open" features will be removed from PS4 and stuff like proprietary accessories will be put in place like the 360.
 
jmdajr said:
yes REALLY
Click to expand...
I honestly know what you're getting at, but the fact of the matter is that the comparison is completely disingenuous given your own acknowledgment -- in one case we're talking about weapons that can easily kill people, and in the other we're talking about people potentially playing video games for free. Furthermore, if you want to generalize and break things down into neat little boxes, the types of people who are pro-gun regulation tend to be more liberal. What are liberals known for? Well, they're certainly not against civil liberties and for corporations, that's for sure.

But that aside, I suppose it was a pretty good question that necessitated deep thought to escape that clever "trying to catch people engaging in active hypocrisy" trap.
 
Zeal said:
jesus, put the crack pipe down and get the fuck outta here. worst analogy in the history of internet land.

yeah, i'm sure everyone's jailbroken ps3s are gonna go more than meets the eye (along with the cheesy transformation sound) and start shooting plasma missiles at random innocents.
Click to expand...

My analogy is perfectly reasonable. If you guys want to get mad that's cool.
My whole point is freedom has it's consequences. People want to use their consoles as they see fit, yet it's obvious people with use them in unlawful ways. But people don't want to give up their freedom, regardless of who it might hurt. That's how I see it. Why you think I'm crazy is beyond me. You've already mind up your minds anyway, it doesn't matter what I say.
 
intheinbetween said:
Marcan is spanish, actually he lives in Spain atm. I wonder what will happen
Click to expand...

So how the hell can he be trialled for violating the DMCA :lol I agree, this is going to be interesting.
 
intheinbetween said:
wait, what? who did he kil? :lol
Click to expand...
game developers livelihoods. much like an unborn child, you can't put a price on that.

jmdajr said:
My analogy is perfectly reasonable. If you guys want to get mad that's cool.
My whole point is freedom has it's consequences. People want to use their consoles as they see fit, yet it's obvious people with use them in unlawful ways. But people don't want to give up their freedom, regardless of who it might hurt. That's how I see it. Why you think I'm crazy is beyond me. You've already mind up your minds anyway, it doesn't matter what I say.
Click to expand...
and as such we need to seriously reconsider freedom of speech.
 
JADS said:
Wait, aren't Marcan and Sven not living in the States?
Click to expand...

You don't have to be in the US to have a suit brought against you. The probability of being expedited depends on the crime.
 
charlequin said:
Full release of all fail0verflow tools to date online.

I think this strategy may not have played out quite how Sony was hoping.
Click to expand...

I'm sure everything was going to get released anyway, instead of being a month from now its today. Sony just speeding up the process so we can get to the PS4 faster :lol
 
Subliminal said:
Its not job loss.

Its the sickening fact that someone plays something for free that was made by sometimes hundreds of people all just trying to make a living for themselves.

Its theft and its disgusting.
Click to expand...

And guess what? I'm not for piracy. No support of it whatsoever. The latest research on the subject states that its 1000 to 1 (ie. 1000 pirated copies equals 1 lost sale). If that's anywhere near true, piracy is not the reason why developers are struggling; they're struggling for legitimate market reasons.

So no, I don't find the potential for piracy a strong enough argument for restricting people's rights to do what they want with their property. Just as Sony is completely in their rights to ban the fuck out of anyone they like trying to use PSN, since that is Sony's property to do with as it pleases.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
I honestly know what you're getting at, but the fact of the matter is that the comparison is completely disingenuous given your own acknowledgment -- in one case we're talking about weapons that can easily kill people, and in the other we're talking about people potentially playing video games for free. Furthermore, if you want to generalize and break things down into neat little boxes, the types of people who are pro-gun regulation tend to be more liberal. What are liberals known for? Well, they're certainly not against civil liberties and for corporations, that's for sure.

But that aside, I suppose it was a pretty good question that necessitated deep thought to escape that clever "trying to catch people engaging in active hypocrisy" trap.
Click to expand...

I put in my post I not trying to make a 1 to 1 comparison. I know one thing is people's lives, and one is entertainment..I KNOW THAT. At least you didn't flat out call me a moron or something of that nature. It's appreciated. Everyone else I can just ignore, but at least you were trying to see what I was getting at.
 
If you're going to make that crazy gun analogy, what would "gun control" entail in this PS3/CFW context? Usually the "guns don't kill people, people do" point is made with regards to the NRA and/or gun control laws.

I'm actually curious here.

Vinci said:
And guess what? I'm not for piracy. No support of it whatsoever. The latest research on the subject states that its 1000 to 1 (ie. 1000 pirated copies equals 1 lost sale). If that's anywhere near true, piracy is not the reason why developers are struggling; they're struggling for legitimate market reasons.

So no, I don't find the potential for piracy a strong enough argument for restricting people's rights to do what they want with their property. Just as Sony is completely in their rights to ban the fuck out of anyone they like trying to use PSN, since that is Sony's property to do with as it pleases.
Click to expand...

Applaud this man. This is how I feel as well.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
Who is losing their jobs because of this?

What's ignorant about wanting to allow people to use their expensive hardware to do things that the platform holder didn't explicitly sign off on? The fact that this in turn often makes piracy possible is beside the point.
Click to expand...

You mean that closed console with a closed free network/service? The big 3 have been closed consoles for decades, and sold as such. Why would anyone in their right mind claim to be entitled to an open console is just beyond me.


captmcblack said:
PS3 used to be open, because it was able to run Linux. That is one of the reasons it was compared to a PC, not to mention its other numerous features, ports and open format support.

They took that feature away.
We know how that went.
Click to expand...

It was more open than any other console to date, but it was still secured within their system.

It was the first time that we had one of the big three walk towards making their platforms more open, albeit they were baby steps, but at least there was progress. But no, that wasn't enough for hackers, they had to keep poking the PS3 trying to break it wide open.

Linux, interchangeable HDDs, game sharing....

Good luck having any of the 3 trying that again.... thanks geohot!
 
Burger said:
Well, Nilay Patel is a lawyer.... so....
Click to expand...
I have a relative who is also a lawyer, but I wouldn't trust him in defending me in court, I'd probably look for better hire elsewhere if need be... Pretty weak arguments 'against' those claims by SCEA, he should've at least stated why he thought they were weak.
 
captmcblack said:
If you're going to make that crazy gun analogy, what would "gun control" entail in this PS3/CFW context? Usually the "guns don't kill people, people do" point is made with regards to the NRA and/or gun control laws.

I'm actually curious here.
Click to expand...

I tried in simplest terms to explain what I was getting to. I should have known better than to say anything, too late

But that's the first thing I thought of when you said CFW does not equal piracy. Don't blame me right?
 
I didn't think there was any piracy with the 3.55 cfw but just had a look and there seems to be an ever growing list of games modified to work. Even all the latest such as need for speed, god of war and call of duty have eboots available now.

Is this really the start of widespread piracy on the ps3?
If it is the no wonder Sony are going after them as the floodgates are open
 
LOL at the haters in this thread, Sony F'd up BIGTIME blame them not the hacking\opensource\homebrew community. Then they just made themselves a larger target by removing Linux, NOW their making themselves even a BIGGER target by going after FailOverflow, good thinking Sony team just keep going further down the black rabbit hole.


Folks the fact is the proverbial genie is out of the bottle and no amount of lawsuits can stop the free flow of information on the internet, this has been proved time and time and time again the fact that some people fail to understand this is proof of how delusional some of you are.
 
tinfoilhatman said:
LOL at the haters in this thread, Sony F'd up BIGTIME blame them not the hacking\opensource\homebrew community. Then they just made themselves a larger target by removing Linux, NOW their making themselves even a BIGGER target by going after FailOverflow, good thinking Sony team just keep going further down the black rabbit hole.


Folks the fact is the proverbial genie is out of the bottle and no amount of lawsuits can stop the free flow of information on the internet, this has been proved time and time and time again the fact that some people fail to understand this is proof of how delusional some of you are.
Click to expand...
i surprisingly agree with this. it's accurate in every way.
 
Evoga said:
I didn't think there was any piracy with the 3.55 cfw but just had a look and there seems to be an ever growing list of games modified to work. Even all the latest such as need for speed, god of war and call of duty have eboots available now.

Is this really the start of widespread piracy on the ps3?
If it is the no wonder Sony are going after them as the floodgates are open
Click to expand...

yeah patched eboots are out there, no need to jb
 
Evoga said:
I didn't think there was any piracy with the 3.55 cfw but just had a look and there seems to be an ever growing list of games modified to work. Even all the latest such as need for speed, god of war and call of duty have eboots available now.

Is this really the start of widespread piracy on the ps3?
If it is the no wonder Sony are going after them as the floodgates are open
Click to expand...

Yes. It makes far more sense for Sony to open the floodgates wider by issuing a lawsuit.
 
tinfoilhatman said:
LOL at the haters in this thread, Sony F'd up BIGTIME blame them not the hacking\opensource\homebrew community. Then they just made themselves a larger target by removing Linux, NOW their making themselves even a BIGGER target by going after FailOverflow, good thinking Sony team just keep going further down the black rabbit hole.


Folks the fact is the proverbial genie is out of the bottle and no amount of lawsuits can stop the free flow of information on the internet, this has been proved time and time and time again the fact that some people fail to understand this is proof of how delusional some of you are.
Click to expand...
The point isn't to completely stop the spread of all the tools and information, that's obviously impossible and they're well aware of that. But why not take down 1 or 2 individuals while you're at it? Seeing them get crushed to the lowest of lows... Why not?


Vinci said:
Yes. It makes far more sense for Sony to open the floodgates wider by issuing a lawsuit.
Click to expand...

Can you really open it any wider than it already is? It's prettu much already completely wide open... So, just take down whoever you can.
 
expy said:
I have a relative who is also a lawyer, but I wouldn't trust him in defending me in court, I'd probably look for better hire elsewhere if need be... Pretty weak arguments 'against' those claims by SCEA, he should've at least stated why he thought they were weak.
Click to expand...

It's a tech blog dude. The fact that they can offer some amount of commentary on issues of law is a plus in my book.

He may offer more insight during the weekly podcast.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
Nintendo sues the US government over Tariffs.
16
375
S0ULZB0URNE replied
New York sues Valve over loot boxes
2 3 4 5
201
1K
BlitzerRadic replied
  • Locked
Nintendo sues U.S Government over Trump Tariffs
News 
24
404
Fermbiz replied
Sony sued for £1.97 billion over PSN monopoly
2 3 4 5 6
294
1K
AmuroChan replied
Sony Removes Over 700 Low-Quality Titles From the PlayStation Store
Platform  2
78
671
awwr999999 replied
Top Bottom