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[Pureauthor]

Why? Socom had Dedicated servers and Gamesharks even worked on it. MS, Valve, and Blizzard do a pretty damn good job keeping their networks cheat free. And they are on systems that have been hacked for years. If PSN gets hacked, it's from their own incompetence.

Because it's easier to police dedicated servers.

... Isn't it? I don't play online much.

 

[Akainu]

While that was my interpretation of the situation, can you come up with a better explanation for his actions other than he didn't want to make piracy easy? And if he didn't want to make piracy easy, doesn't that mean he was looking out for the people and companies that might get their software pirated?

He may have not wanted to make piracy easy but I don't see how releasing something worldwide that could lead to it, is "looking out" for anyone.

 

[darkwing]

Because it's easier to police dedicated servers.

... Isn't it? I don't play online much.

yup easier to police than peer to peer games, now where is that Punkbuster for consoles :lol

 

[KtSlime]

He may have not wanted to make piracy easy but I don't see how releasing something worldwide that could lead to it, is "looking out" for anyone.

Easy, because the rights of the consumer trump the restrictions Sony places on the hardware they sell. Especially when they remove features that were paid for without recompense.

 

[Raistlin]

The amusing thing here, wasn't it Geohot that very recently offered his services to Sony et al with security for next gen?

 

[darkwing]

The amusing thing here, wasn't it Geohot that very recently offered his services to Sony et al with security for next gen?

yup, now they are using this as evidence for their extortion case

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Easy, because the rights of the consumer trump the restrictions Sony places on the hardware they sell. Especially when they remove features that were paid for without recompense.

Wait, I've seen this line before. Remind me where in the cycle of this thread are we right now? ;P

 

[amar212]

The amusing thing here, wasn't it Geohot that very recently offered his services to Sony et al with security for next gen?

He did.

Classified in lawsiut as extortion.

18 U.S.C. § 1030(a)(7)(B) – Intent to Extort

 

[Dambrosi]

Because it's easier to police dedicated servers.

... Isn't it? I don't play online much.

Usually, a dedicated server has its own Admin, whose job it is to enforce the rules and kick out cheaters. Obviously, SOCOM's Admins were sleeping on the job :lol

Take a look at how Steam does it - they have VACS, an automatic anti-cheat detection system similar to Punkbuster, to prevent cheating on Valve's dedicated multiplayer servers, but they also have human admins who can take action as they see fit. It's this double layer of protection that ensures that your Steam multiplayer experience is the smoothest possible.

I don't know how XBL handles things, seeing as all their games are P2P (although I could be wrong on the Halo games), but seeing as their anti-cheating system seems similarly robust, well, they must be doing something right. It's a shame that they have to charge for it :lol

No idea about Blizzard.

 

[KtSlime]

Wait, I've seen this line before. Remind me where in the cycle of this thread are we right now? ;P

Haha, sorry, I keep expecting that the ones that don't understand will finally get it.

I guess I don't get that they'll never get it. :lol

 

[Raistlin]

He did.

Classified in lawsiut as extortion.

Wait, how is it extortion it he's talking about next gen? Is Sony actually trying to argue that they are so inept they know he'll be able to hack next gen and he's therefore asking money to not do it? :lol Are they not aware that

Spoiler

sane

businesses and even governments regularly employ hackers to help with security due to their expertise?





You know I really like Sony, but this is just getting sad. If this has any serious repercussions for Geohot, I hope the gods of irony striketh with all their might next gen - and PS4 is hacked day 1 because he wasn't there to help them. Tasty poetic justice.

 

[notworksafe]

No idea about Blizzard.

They use a program called Warden to detect third-party programs and processes that are used for cheating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden_(software)

 

[Mako_Drug]

Wait, how is it extortion it he's talking about next gen? Is Sony actually trying to argue that they are so inept they know he'll be able to hack next gen and he's therefore asking money to not do it? :lol Are they not aware that

Spoiler

sane

businesses and even governments regularly employ hackers to help with security due to their expertise?

Ugh. This post...

Seriously, they are done with PS3 security. Obviously they would be developing PS4 down in the labs right now. Geohot isn't going to offer his services to help with a project that happened 5 years ago.

And yeah, Sony doesn't realise that. You are no doubt smarter than the people running a multi-million/billion dollar company.

 

[njean777]

I would normally side with Sony in this case, but i cant help but feel this is the wrong move to take for them.

I dont mind home brewing or anything unless it screws with the online competitive play. But from everything I know this jailbreak does not do. So whats the problem with letting people screw with their ps3 if they want? Unless it brings cheaters online I could care less.

 

[Raistlin]

Ugh. This post...

Seriously, they are done with PS3 security. Obviously they would be developing PS4 down in the labs right now. Geohot isn't going to offer his services to help with a project that happened 5 years ago.

And yeah, Sony doesn't realise that. You are no doubt smarter than the people running a multi-million/billion dollar company.

Ugh ... this post :lol

 

[Pureauthor]

And yeah, Sony doesn't realise that. You are no doubt smarter than the people running a multi-million/billion dollar company.

Given that I know not to use a constant value for encryption purposes, I guess that's true.

 

[Mako_Drug]

Given that I know not to use a constant value for encryption purposes, I guess that's true.

And yeah, Sony doesn't realise that. You are no doubt smarter than the people running a multi-million/billion dollar company.

.

 

[KtSlime]

Given that I know not to use a constant value for encryption purposes, I guess that's true.

Haha, right? People quickly forget that had Sony spent an extra 5 minutes checking their code, this problem would have never existed.

Sony's ineptitude is why they are in this mess, they are just lashing out at those who brought this to their attention. :lol

 

[Akainu]

Haha, right? People quickly forget that had Sony spent an extra 5 minutes checking their code, this problem would have never existed.

Sony's ineptitude is why they are in this mess, they are just lashing out at those who brought this to their attention. :lol

Wasn't all this started because someone stole something?

 

[Dambrosi]

And yeah, Sony doesn't realise that. You are no doubt smarter than the people running a multi-million/billion dollar company.

Considering how this whole mess started in the first place, I wouldn't be so cocksure about Sony's relative intelligence or degree of common sense in this regard :lol

Wasn't all this started because someone stole something?

Whuh? No, you're thinking about PSGroove, the dongle hack. Totally different thing.

This mess started with a maths equation, and snowballed from there.

 

[KtSlime]

Wasn't all this started because someone stole something?

Who stole what now? Citations would be nice.

 

[notworksafe]

Sony stole MAH RIGHTS

Spoiler

only partially sarcastic

 

[Slightly Live]

Wasn't all this started because someone stole something?

No.

 

[DrPirate]

But...George Carlin said rights are make believe.

 

[KtSlime]

But...George Carlin said rights are make believe.

Yeah well he's dead so he can fucking burn in hell.


Too soon? :lol

Great comedian.

 

[joshcryer]

I'm worried here, the DMCA exemptions don't cover this case. You could call out the video game exception, but it was not used in a "good faith manner" to avoid circumventing copyright. The keys were freed. Apps were signed (which means anyone could sign an app which illegally linked Sony's SDK, direct proof of copyright infringement).

However, it's possible they can argue that the keys were released to allow interoperability with phone handsets. Use the PS3 as a wifi hotspot and the phone connects to it.

Still worrisome though.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

Going to be fun now, I wouldn't be sad if he lost his job because of his public outburst.

LOL! Love how the pro-Sony squad in this thread is all "if one guy loses his job homebrew is not worth it" one minute, then this and stuff like how they want to see George Hotz et al. living out on the street the next.

 

[Speevy]

Yeah well he's dead so he can fucking burn in hell.


Too soon? :lol

Great comedian.

Never too soon, nearest I could tell he didn't believe in Hell.

 

[itxaka]

wait wait wait.

Guys, is this a joke? I'm still in bed dreaming? Did really Sony made a paypal donation to geohot so they could bring charges against him or are you fucking with me?

 

[KtSlime]

Never too soon, nearest I could tell he didn't believe in Hell.

He didn't, and neither do I. :lol

 

[kadab]

wait wait wait.

Guys, is this a joke? I'm still in bed dreaming? Did really Sony made a paypal donation to geohot so they could bring charges against him or are you fucking with me?

Who told you this?

 

[Slightly Live]

Who told you this?

It's in the court documents. They sent him $1 and used the transaction as evidence against him.

 

[itxaka]

Who told you this?

Up there on post 1625:

Mr. Hotz has never utilized an account with PayPal in connection with any activity relating to the Playstation computer. Affidavit of George Hotz ¶ 7. In fact, Mr. Hotz expressly tells people on his website not to give him donations for his efforts. Even more harmful to Sony’s personal jurisdiction argument, the only evidence put forward of Mr. Hotz’ Paypal account appears to be a transaction initiated by the plaintiff. Declaration Of Ryan Bricker In Support Of Ex Parte Motion For Temporary Restraining Order And Order To Show Cause Re Preliminary Injunction; Order Of Impoundment. Exh. DD.

That is why I was asking, because it sounds real but it's too surreal to be true :lol

It's in the court documents. They sent him $1 and used the transaction as evidence against him.

Holy shit, so it's real? :lol :lol :lol :lol

Can't Sony be charged with aiding to circumvent the ps3 security? I mean, they contributed money to the guy

 

[angelfly]

wait wait wait.

Guys, is this a joke? I'm still in bed dreaming? Did really Sony made a paypal donation to geohot so they could bring charges against him or are you fucking with me?

:lol and to make it worse it was a measly dollar

 

[darkwing]

where the heck is Sony hiring these lawyers :lol

 

[jorma]

It's in the court documents. They sent him $1 and used the transaction as evidence against him.

If "give me a job Sony" equals geohot extorting Sony, then surely this contribution means that Sony approves of geohots efforts and wants him to succeed.

 

[iapetus]

Yeah, Sony didn't like them selling NA and JP PSPs to EU customers before the official EU launch.

Really? Some parts of Sony clearly did, as many of Sony's European employees bought NA and JP PSPs from Lik Sang.

 

[kitch9]

wait wait wait.

Guys, is this a joke? I'm still in bed dreaming? Did really Sony made a paypal donation to geohot so they could bring charges against him or are you fucking with me?

There's lots of armchair lawyers in this thread with no real idea how law works or they would be stood in the court arguing the case themselves.

Is it too difficult to understand whether or not Sony think they can win they obviously need time to get their heads around what needs to be done and this has suppressed the scenes activities and currently all the guys who were vocal and saying they were hacking LVL1 for peek and poke etc etc have disappeared. PSX Scene has even made an announcement that all activity has ceased and has been unsuccessful. The reality is these guys are probably still working on these hacks but they are no longer telling everybody about it.

From that point of view Sony will see that as a short term gain, which is what they needed.

I currently know someone is going through a fairly high profile court case, which even made the local papers over here. If you read the papers report on the court case you'd think he was guilty as hell, but actually in court when you have a decent lawyer they can word things in such a way that it creates doubt which is what the legal system is about.

You can pick one line out of what will be a highly detailed and complex case and you can post "are they fucking kidding me," all you want but it is a tiny snippet of what will be said and covered. A good case is the sum of all parts, not one line otherwise they'd just use that one line and a decision would be made and everybody would go home....

Geohot wants to hope Sony's mega expensive lawyers have not found some obscure legal loophole to exploit as he could end up getting rear-ended by all the mega-corporations that he has bent over the past few years.

I'm watching this case with interest and as long as Sony keep cheaters off PSN I could not give a toss about the rest of the hacks.

 

[itxaka]

There's lots of armchair lawyers in this thread with no real idea how law works or they would be stood in the court arguing the case themselves.

Is it too difficult to understand whether or not Sony think they can win they obviously need time to get their heads around what needs to be done and this has suppressed the scenes activities and currently all the guys who were vocal and saying they were hacking LVL1 for peek and poke etc etc have disappeared. PSX Scene has even made an announcement that all activity has ceased and has been unsuccessful. The reality is these guys are probably still working on these hacks but they are no longer telling everybody about it.

From that point of view Sony will see that as a short term gain, which is what they needed.

I currently know someone is going through a fairly high profile court case, which even made the local papers over here. If you read the papers report on the court case you'd think he was guilty as hell, but actually in court when you have a decent lawyer they can word things in such a way that it creates doubt which is what the legal system is about.

You can pick one line out of what will be a highly detailed and complex case and you can post "are they fucking kidding me," all you want but it is a tiny snippet of what will be said and covered. A good case is the sum of all parts, not one line otherwise they'd just use that one line and a decision would be made and everybody would go home....

Geohot wants to hope Sony's mega expensive lawyers have not found some obscure legal loophole to exploit as he could end up getting rear-ended by all the mega-corporations that he has bent over the past few years.

I'm watching this case with interest and as long as Sony keep cheaters off PSN I could not give a toss about the rest of the hacks.

Are you a lawyer? Could you check those documents and give us a more comprehensive status of everything?


Also, they showing the keys on the case documents mens they are pretty sure the keys are unstoppable. They just want some blood from this guys.

 

[iapetus]

He didn't address the fact that Hotz must have agreed to the TOS to get 3.55 installed on his machine.

Someone else could have installed it for him.

 

[iapetus]

Also, they showing the keys on the case documents mens they are pretty sure the keys are unstoppable. They just want some blood from this guys.

No, them showing the keys on the case documents means they're incompetent. Again.

 

[Vagabundo]

wait wait wait.

Guys, is this a joke? I'm still in bed dreaming? Did really Sony made a paypal donation to geohot so they could bring charges against him or are you fucking with me?

They learned all they know from the Monty Python school of law....

 

[darkwing]

smh as I said, where are they getting all these high priced lawyers, it seems they are following the handbook of not how to do lawsuits

 

[Sipowicz]

no,fuck liksang,they deserved it...they could have just stopped selling psps after the first warning but they continued

what. the. fuck.

please tell me you are joking

 

[kitch9]

Are you a lawyer? Could you check those documents and give us a more comprehensive status of everything?


Also, they showing the keys on the case documents mens they are pretty sure the keys are unstoppable. They just want some blood from this guys.

No I'm not, I'm not even going to start. Some of the aspects of this case will be so technical I wouldn't even know where to start. The only status we'll be able to understand fully is the final ruling.

I certainly wont pick one line out and post smilies.

It could have massive consequences either way for either party.

They may as well spray the keys over the front of Sony HQ now, that cats well out of the bag....

 

[Dr Frasier Crane]

Yeesh. I really was hoping to restrain myself from posting in this thread -opinions are so entrenched on both sides there's very little debate to be had- but this comment is so perfectly asinine I had to respond.

Dear Tinfoilhatman,
the world does not solely revolve around you, and exist to serve your interests and desires. For those of us with no particular interest in Linux, homebrew or piracy, all GeoHot and his fellow hackers have achieved is to create a colossal mess that is in no way going to enrich our enjoyment of our PS3's.

In fact, the need for heightened network security is quite likely to do the reverse. Everything in business has a cost attached, and if time/resources are being spent bolstering defences (both legal and technical) those funds will have been diverted from elsewhere. In simple terms, every user is going to feel the impact even if its the simple inconvenience of being forced to install additional firmware updates that would otherwise not be neccessary.

Why is this happening again? Sony may well have been planning to remove OtherOS support, but the impetus to patch it out so suddenly was demonstrably driven their desire to prevent hacker attacks. You can't point the finger of blame at Sony in isolation for this - frankly their desire to protect their business seems like a far more reasonable rationale than the desire to prolong service of a feature that -at least to my knowledge- had produced precisely nothing of general public interest for over 3 years.

Is it really so unreasonable after spending billions of dollars developing a system that has barely started to turn a profit that they Sony should want to protect their investment at all costs? I mean its not like they are the industry dominating super-power of years gone by, they are the ones struggling this generation. Desperate times demand desperate measures and all that.

Your comments also strongly indicates that you feel Sony should be in deathly fear of the hackers, is that *really* such a desirable situation for, well, anybody? It surely doesn't seem like a sweet deal for regular users like me who also payed good money for his console and now apparently should be looking forward to buying a new system because this one is "finished". Great. Mind if I bill you for my replacement PS4?

After all, there is -according to you- nothing that Sony can do at this point. Going after the hackers via the courts is just going to make things worse, because they are beyond the law apparently... Sheesh I wish these all-powerful people would use their revolutionary superpowers to do something generally constructive like bring peace to the middle-east or something... as opposed to bringing a system *I LIKE* to its knees in a gaudy display of people power (or Terrorism if you're a fan of the Patriot act <rolls eyes>).

Seriously though, Geohot's blatant self-promotion in publically disseminating the crypto-keys and pushing out his custom firmware kit so visibly is just begging to elicit a legal response from Sony. For such a "smart" kid it seems extraordinarily naive for him to expect anything less. And that being the case isn't it completely cut-and-dried as to who is driving this debacle forward? It isn't Sony.

Call me old-fashioned but I expect my Hackers like other "outlaw" types to wear masks, ore at least a leetized pseudonym. From where I sit he couldn't have made himself a more obvious target had he painted a bullseye on his skinny ass.

If he's done nothing wrong, or he's really as smart as he thinks he is, let him prove it in court. Seems fair enough to me.

The bottom-line is this: The ability to run unlicensed code is not just about free-warez and the media center of your dreams. Its about being constantly concerned that Sony will somehow detect your modified system and kick you off PSN. Its about being cockblocked by "surprise" OFW releases that need to be modded by some enterprising hacker and downloaded from some uncertain source before you can enjoy their benefits.

Its a big bag of arseholes, Tinfoilhatman. Its hassle, and worry, and for what exactly? You will never be able to use PSN with the same level of confidence and carefreeness that a legit user will.

One last thing. It doesn't matter whether you believe EULA's are legally binding or not. You should be in absolutely no doubt that Sony believe they are, and will take steps to enforce their view in any and all business transactions with them. If you don't like the deal, you should take your custom elsewhere. Taking the cavalier attitude that you can choose to ignore the terms they have been at pains to lay out for you is not honourable in any way. Its just the kind of legalistic dickery you are complaining that big-business is guilty of.

You really don't have the moral high-ground you think you have.

Peace & Love.

PS. I have absolutely no intention of posting again in this thread. So don't bother calling me out on any of my cranky opinions - I just needed to get this off my chest.

I would like to say that this post (and I know I'm a bit LTTP on this one) really encapsulates how I feel about this. Now what I would probably position this as though is more a moral argument towards peoples feelings in the "pro-Sony" camp so to speak. From this thread (and there is some good info amongst all the bickering) I mostly believe that what has occurred is probably the right side of legal, and ultimately there probably isn't much Sony can do other than a hardware revision/software whitelist etc. I think they've probably had their hand forced from a shareholder perspective to start these lawsuits but reckon it's more a delaying tactic to slow down development and give them a chance for a temporary fix.

I guess what all my waffling boils down to is:
Is this jailbreak legal? Yes
Are Sony's lawsuits valid? Probably not
Does CFW/Homebrew == Piracy? Definitely not
Does CFW/Homebrew beget Piracy? Quite a lot of the time (but not all)
Is it fair that Sony should do something to protect their investment? Yes
Should CFW consoles be banned from PSN? Absolutely
Does someone somewhere need to legally challenge EULAs properly? Hell yeah!

I'd like to think this might explain some of the "corporate dick sucking" that has been happening on this thread, and it's certainly a position I take (mouth wide open it seems), but I can't argue that anyone has done anything legally wrong. I've tried to be a bit more evenhanded here but am happy to continue this conversation through the thread.

 

[itxaka]

No, them showing the keys on the case documents means they're incompetent. Again.

Well, I can understand it as being incompetent like in the case of DeCSS when they tried the world to delete all references to the code and keys but in this case (AFAIK) they haven't tried to stop web pages from showing them with C&D letters as this corporations usually do. So I think they just don't give a fuck anymore regarding the keys at all. They probably knows how the internet works :lol

 

[darkwing]

No, them showing the keys on the case documents means they're incompetent. Again.

it means PS4 is near!!

 

[Lonewolf_92]

actually, yes, you can rent it. and if by distribute, you mean sell or give away the copy you bought, then yes, you can do that too. as far as editing and uploading, you can do that too depending on exactly what and how you edit and use it. for example, if you were to do a movie review with footage.

On that note, many of the posters replying to this thread have images set as their avatar that they do not own and have modified for use as an avatar and are likely hosting on a site they own or have permission to access. Given the thought process of the pro-Sony faction in this thread, we should be against such blatant copyright violation, correct?

 

[itxaka]

smh as I said, where are they getting all these high priced lawyers, it seems they are following the handbook of not how to do lawsuits

Spoiler

probably done already