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[gregor7777]

Well he was asking for fame. He got it +1
Now he must put his balls on the table. If he has any.
We'll see...

What? :lol

I'm not sure but I think you and him need to fight now.

 

[alr1ght]

There is less than a 0% chance they have phone home tools/require internet connection.

They'll ban people from PSN
Make a whitelist for a new PS3 revision
Block USB firmware updates

They can't really do anything else.

 

[Emitan]

I really doubt the average joe without an internet connection buys a game a day.

If Joe owned a 360 and PS3 and on one console he could put in a game and play and on the other he had to call a phone number and read a 24 character code every time he buys a game, which console he is going to buy games for?

 

[test_account]

As long as it doesn't diminish the functionality you sold to other customers, change away. If it requires removal of something, look for another approach, or make sure you provide additional features that people feel makes up for whatever you removed.

That sounds fair enough But out of curiousity, lets say that a company sees it as very neccessary to remove a feature, take the OtherOS removal from the PS3 Phat for example, what could Sony have compensated with instead that would make users of OtherOS happy? Would money/refund be pretty much the only option? If they couldnt find anything to compensate with that would make most consumers happy, what would happend then?

EDIT: I changed a bit about what i first wrote.

 

[Zoe]

If Joe owned a 360 and PS3 and on one console he could put in a game and play and on the other he had to call a phone number and read a 24 character code every time he buys a game, which console he is going to buy games for?

Be realistic, he'd be buying the 360 version anyway.

 

[plagiarize]

they can just modify the future firmware updates. there is no way to know the key/sig/hash of a future firmware beforehand

right, but that is only good for people that are on a currently vulnerable firmware.

anyone buying a system with a 'locked up' firmware, or anyone foolish enough to update to one in order to play a brand new game that doesn't work on the one they have, would be locked out (at least until a new exploit was found).

everyone on the firmware that exists now, will be able to keep homebrew, just as it was whenever the latest firmware was hacked on the PSP. new motherboards and system installed with later firmwares were locked up until a new hack was found.

i'm saying that the best case scenario for the PS3 now, is what things were like on the PSP prior to homebrew enabler.

for a best case, that's a pretty terrible case (from sony's perspective).

i genuinely wonder if they'll try. PSP firmware updates suggest that they will.

 

[WTFing]

What? :lol

I'm not sure but I think you and him need to fight now.

:lol no need to fight, I have much much respect to these guys, I just want them to share their knowledge. Now they have nothing to lose.

 

[Jobiensis]

Make a whitelist for a new PS3 revision.

I really don't think this is possible. This would require a new private/public key pair for new software. In order to whitelist they need to know the hashes of all software that should be allowed.

The TPM chip on the existing PS3s would have to be changed to allow the new key, I don't think this is possible at all.

 

[gregor7777]

:lol no need to fight, I have much much respect to these guys, I just want them to share their knowledge. Now they have nothing to lose.

Now I really don't understand your original post.

Didn't they release everything in the last few days because of the lawsuit?

 

[WTFing]

There is less than a 0% chance they have phone home tools/require internet connection.

They'll ban people from PSN
Make a whitelist for a new PS3 revision
Block USB firmware updates

They can't really do anything else.

Let SONY ban people and their hardware from PSN, it's fair. I'm ok with that.

 

[WTFing]

Now I really don't understand your original post.

Didn't they release everything in the last few days because of the lawsuit?

No they didn't released everything, far from it in fact. That's why I said this.

 

[gregor7777]

No they didn't released everything, far from it in fact. That's why I said this.

What didn't get released in the latest dump?

 

[kitch9]

There is less than a 0% chance they have phone home tools/require internet connection.

They'll ban people from PSN
Make a whitelist for a new PS3 revision
Block USB firmware updates

They can't really do anything else.

How about revoking all keys and replacing with new (Done right.) in a new firmware, whilst asking devs to patch their games so anybody who takes their PS3 on-line will get the game patched with the new encryption keys (Maybe paying the Devs a few quid in the process.)

They'll have to write off those who don't go on-line to update but that's no biggie in the grand scheme of things, people will want to update to play new games on-line.

LVL0 encryption security has not been hacked if I am correct so I wonder if Sony could run an encrypted payload to run at Lvl0 within an update to stop the hackers looking at their code?

This may take time to organise, so in the meantime they could sue some fools asses just to try to put a cap on things for a bit....

 

[WTFing]

What didn't get released in the latest dump?

The most important thing in the homebrew scene.

 

[gregor7777]

The most important thing in the homebrew scene.

OK, I'll play along.

Which is...?

 

[Emitan]

How about revoking all keys and replacing with new (Done right.) in a new firmware, whilst asking devs to patch their games so anybody who takes their PS3 on-line will get the game patched with the new encryption keys (Maybe paying the Devs a few quid in the process.)

They'll have to write off those who don't go on-line to update but that's no biggie in the grand scheme of things, people will want to update to play new games on-line.

LVL0 encryption security has not been hacked if I am correct so I wonder if Sony could run an encrypted payload to run at Lvl0 within an update to stop the hackers looking at their code?

This may take time to organise, so in the meantime they could sue some fools asses just to try to put a cap on things for a bit....

And then the firmware they pushed out to do this is hacked and the check is removed.

 

[KtSlime]

How about revoking all keys and replacing with new (Done right.) in a new firmware, whilst asking devs to patch their games so anybody who takes their PS3 on-line will get the game patched with the new encryption keys (Maybe paying the Devs a few quid in the process.)

They'll have to write off those who don't go on-line to update but that's no biggie in the grand scheme of things, people will want to update to play new games on-line.

LVL0 encryption security has not been hacked if I am correct so I wonder if Sony could run an encrypted payload to run at Lvl0 within an update to stop the hackers looking at their code?

This may take time to organise, so in the meantime they could sue some fools asses just to try to put a cap on things for a bit....

For the PS3 to load the new firmware, it has to be signed with the current keys.
If it is signed with the current keys, it can be decrypted.
If it can be decrypted, we have the new keys.
If we have the new keys, we can sign software with the new keys.
Repeat.

 

[Chesskid1]

The lawyer using Wii hacks as evidence, really? Oh and check exhibit T in the 04.pdf file. The poor fella forgot to logout :lol

lol i don't get it. is kip supposed to be a sony employee? i actually went to wiihacks and signed up to see his posts.

http://www.wiihacks.com/members/kip.html

he was 2 posts, and both of them are asking about hacking the wii back in mid 2010.

 

[itxaka]

OK, I'll play along.

Which is...?

love

Spoiler

npdrm keys IIRC

 

[sangreal]

lol i don't get it. is kip supposed to be a sony employee? i actually went to wiihacks and signed up to see his posts.

http://www.wiihacks.com/members/kip.html

he was 2 posts, and both of them are asking about hacking the wii back in mid 2010.

That screenshot is from psx-scene

 

[Zoe]

lol i don't get it. is kip supposed to be a sony employee? i actually went to wiihacks and signed up to see his posts.

http://www.wiihacks.com/members/kip.html

he was 2 posts, and both of them are asking about hacking the wii back in mid 2010.

Yes, there's only one kip in the world.

 

[WTFing]

OK, I'll play along.

Which is...?

Launch game ISOz from internal or external drives. Of course, it's all about imaginary (sorry I'm drunk) homebrews.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

They'll have to write off those who don't go on-line to update but that's no biggie in the grand scheme of things, people will want to update to play new games on-line.

You have absolutely no idea just how many legitimate users that would negatively affect.

I suspect effectively bricking what would be tens of millions* of consoles from playing games is, in fact, 'a biggy'.

*tens of millions is an estimate based on an estimated 30 million PS3s sold and a 'never gone online' percentage of at least 33% of users.

EDIT:

Launch game ISOz from internal or external drives. Of course, it's all about imaginary (sorry I'm drunk) homebrews.

You might want to edit that out before your ban.

 

[gregor7777]

Launch game ISOz from internal or external drives. Of course, it's all about imaginary (sorry I'm drunk) homebrews.

...

Spoiler

Lay off the booze.

 

[3rdman]

I really doubt the average joe without an internet connection buys a game a day.

How do you handle rented titles or borrowed games?

 

[Zoe]

How do you handle rented titles or borrowed games?

Using the Windows model, there's an activation window.

 

[3rdman]

Using the Windows model, there's an activation window.

Are you proposing multiple activations per title? If you borrow a title from a friend and it's already been "activated"...

 

[Emitan]

Using the Windows model, there's an activation window.

Every game lasts 6 hours these days, what's the point? :lol

 

[Beer Monkey]

This talk of requiring games to be activated is insane. It would be the greatest gift Sony could give to the 360.

 

[Zoe]

Are you proposing multiple activations per title? If you borrow a title from a friend and it's already been "activated"...

No, I'm saying if they want to borrow it for a short period of time, they're allowed to use it for so many days before it refuses to run. If they want to run it forever, they'll need to buy their own copy.

Every game lasts 6 hours these days, what's the point? :lol

Games take me longer than 6 hours

 

[Emitan]

No, I'm saying if they want to borrow it for a short period of time, they're allowed to use it for so many days before it refuses to run. If they want to run it forever, they'll need to buy their own copy.

How does this stop piracy? It just inconveniences everyone who buys games.

 

[Vorador]

How do you handle rented titles or borrowed games?

By asking nicely...

But seriously, authentication schemes can be invalidated by decrypting the binaries and disabling the api calls for the authentication. A decided hacker could disable them in hours.

 

[Pandaman]

EDIT:

You might want to edit that out before your ban.

wanting an isoloader doesn't make someone a pirate and suggesting it does has gotten people banned before.

 

[WTFing]

You have absolutely no idea just how many legitimate users that would negatively affect.

I suspect effectively bricking what would be tens of millions* of consoles from playing games is, in fact, 'a biggy'.

*tens of millions is an estimate based on an estimated 30 million PS3s sold and a 'never gone online' percentage of at least 33% of users.

EDIT:


You might want to edit that out before your ban.

Ban? Why? To this day what are the HOMEBREWS available on the hacked PS3? FTP & SNES shit. Can you install Linux on your 3.55 PS3?
Ok you may install a Linux (lol), then what?
This hypocrisy needs to stop. Thanks.

wanting an isoloader doesn't make someone a pirate and suggesting it does has gotten people banned before.

I'm not asking or hoping for an isoloader, in fact I'm against this kind of shit.

 

[railGUN]

Inconveniencing your legitimate user base to fight piracy :lol

 

[Zoe]

How does this stop piracy? It just inconveniences everyone who buys games.

Piracy is going to inconvenience everybody except for the pirates, period.

Inconveniencing your legitimate user base to fight piracy :lol

Hey, you guys wanted your PS3's to be PC's.

 

[Emitan]

Inconveniencing your legitimate user base to fight piracy :lol

It worked* in the past.

*

Spoiler

lolno

Piracy is going to inconvenience everybody except for the pirates, period

Your solution doesn't stop piracy. It just inconveniences the people buying games. You're helping piracy more than anything.

 

[sajj316]

Yes, there's only one kip in the world.

bet he's the same person .. kip @ wiihacks asking about wii homebrew and wii hack info as part of Sony's exhibits. Now kip @ psx-scene with a screenshot of forum posts with PS3 keys. Bet kip was building his case for months .. or kip is a Sony employee used by the law firm as part of their case building.

I know I'm stretching but this makes for some nice drama

 

[kitch9]

You have absolutely no idea just how many legitimate users that would negatively affect.

I suspect effectively bricking what would be tens of millions* of consoles from playing games is, in fact, 'a biggy'.

*tens of millions is an estimate based on an estimated 30 million PS3s sold and a 'never gone online' percentage of at least 33% of users.

EDIT:


You might want to edit that out before your ban.

The consoles wouldn't be bricked, they would still play the games as they wouldn't have been updated as they are off-line, so it would be as if nothing has happened. By this I meant no biggie....Sony have to write these customers off as lost if they refuse the update.

As soon as you go on-line you would have to update obviously.

For the PS3 to load the new firmware, it has to be signed with the current keys.
If it is signed with the current keys, it can be decrypted.
If it can be decrypted, we have the new keys.
If we have the new keys, we can sign software with the new keys.
Repeat.

If the keys were randomised correctly this time we wouldn't have them though, or am I miss-understanding it?

 

[angelfly]

http://psx-scene.com/forums/members/kip/

:lol they're having fun with his member page

 

[KtSlime]

Using the Windows model, there's an activation window.

Wait... I'm just a silly OS X user, but are you telling me, you can rent Windows games? Like I can walk down to Blockbuster and pick up Games for Windows Games and play them and return them in a week?

 

[railGUN]

Hey, you guys wanted your PS3's to be PC's.

My PS3 was a PC for several years. Then I wanted to play GT5, and *poof* bye-bye PC.

 

[3rdman]

By asking nicely...

But seriously, authentication schemes can be invalidated by decrypting the binaries and disabling the api calls for the authentication. A decided hacker could disable them in hours.

Oh, I know, I was trying to walk Zoe through the field of crazy to sane town.

 

[NullPointer]

Hey, you guys wanted your PS3's to be PC's.

Yeah, thanks for that.

Some of us just wanted PS3s to play games, music and blurays, with some basic media center capabilities. Thanks for bringing the worst aspects of the PC to our consoles.

I know it may be blasphemy to some here, but there are benefits to closed systems.

 

[Zoe]

Wait... I'm just a silly OS X user, but are you telling me, you can rent Windows games? Like I can walk down to Blockbuster and pick up Games for Windows Games and play them and return them in a week?

Windows OS

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

wanting an isoloader doesn't make someone a pirate and suggesting it does has gotten people banned before.

Saying that an ISO loader is 'the most important thing' to people interested in homebrew, then calling homebrew 'imaginary' is pretty much equating homebrew to piracy.

An ISO loader is one of the things I personally am least interested in seeing using this exploit, and find it pretty offensive to state that...

To this day what are the HOMEBREWS available on the hacked PS3? FTP & SNES shit. Can you install Linux on your 3.55 PS3?
Ok you may install a Linux (lol), then what?
This hypocrisy needs to stop. Thanks.

...nobody could possibly be interested in anything other than backups.

EDIT:

The consoles wouldn't be bricked, they would still play the games as they wouldn't have been updated as they are off-line, so it would be as if nothing has happened. By this I meant no biggie....Sony have to write these customers off as lost if they refuse the update.

As soon as you go on-line you would have to update obviously.

If Sony offered new signed keys for software, then any console that has not done this hypothetical update you are talking about will be unable to ever play a new game.

That is - best case scenario - millions of consoles unable to perform the primary task they were purchased for.

 

[Tenkei]

Piracy is going to inconvenience everybody except for the pirates, period.

Then what's the point of your crazy-ass proposal?

 

[Zoe]

Then what's the point of your crazy-ass proposal?

I wasn't the one who proposed it, just explaining how it might be implemented.

 

[Emitan]

Windows OS

Windows activation software is easily disabled. PS3 activation software is even easier to disable because the firmware can be decrypted and messed with. Activation software does not affect pirates. At all. Stop proposing it.

 

[sajj316]

http://psx-scene.com/forums/members/kip/

:lol they're having fun with his member page

You have a screenshot of this fun? Not a member of psx scene ..