Support NeoGAF

[mclem]

I'll ask you again: What are the potential benefits of this to someone who has zero interest in homebrew?

Region-free PS1, Region-free PS2 (if you have an early enough system), Region-free Blu-Ray; region-free DVD. Base functions of the PS3 which are potentially improved by CFW.

If the first two happen, I may actually try to hunt down an old enough Phat for the PS2 playback, despite already having a more recent model.

Oooh: I wonder if the PS2 emulation can see the hard disk as a PS2 hard disk? That has HDLoader-esque potential.

 

[Lostconfused]

Don't think you can access Netflix via CFW since it requires logging into Netflix, unless ofcourse they find a loophole. If so, GIVE ME ACCESS TO AMERICAN NETFLIX SINCE CANADIAN NETFLIX SUCKS! :/

Yeah that's um IP based, you are going to need to set up a tunneling service for that. But then again I am ok with canadian netflix even though I know its not as good as American.

 

[plagiarize]

Region-free PS1, Region-free PS2 (if you have an early enough system), Region-free Blu-Ray; region-free DVD. Base functions of the PS3 which are potentially improved by CFW.

If the first two happen, I may actually try to hunt down an old enough Phat for the PS2 playback, despite already having a more recent model.

Oooh: I wonder if the PS2 emulation can see the hard disk as a PS2 hard disk? That has HDLoader-esque potential.

i was just about to point out the HD loader thing.

that could work for PS3 games too if you wanted to throw a terrabyte drive in there

 

[Emitan]

There's been online cheaters on practically every gaming platform to ever have online and it's not like everyone suddenly abandoned an entire platform because of a few cheaters. I don't understand why this time is completely different from every other time in the existence of networked gaming this has happened.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

So does anyone think Sony will win the lawsuit? How airtight is the DMCA? If they win, wonder what kind of damages Georgie will be looking at. How could someone even estimate damages in a case like this?

 

[iapetus]

I'll ask you again: What are the potential benefits of this to someone who has zero interest in homebrew?

The same as the potential downsides of this to someone who has zero interest in online play, I'm guessing. What a ridiculously loaded question. "Ignoring all the positives of this, what positives does it have?"

 

[Emitan]

So does anyone think Sony will win the lawsuit? How airtight is the DMCA? If they win, wonder what kind of damages Georgie will be looking at. How could someone even estimate damages in a case like this?

I'm no legal expert but I don't think they're going to win. This really isn't different from jailbreaking mobile phones at all, which was made legal a few months ago.

 

[iapetus]

So does anyone think Sony will win the lawsuit? How airtight is the DMCA? If they win, wonder what kind of damages Georgie will be looking at. How could someone even estimate damages in a case like this?

Most of the case will be thrown out with extreme prejudice. It's too loaded down with outright lies and attempts to twist the law for that not to happen.

There are some parts of it that might turn out to have merit, though, and I have no doubt Sony's lawyers (who are very competent from what I've read) will work hard to make those stick despite the damage Sony have done to their own case.

 

[Dambrosi]

I'm sure you already know this but you didn't answer his question at all. This was the question he asked:

What are the potential benefits of this to someone who has zero interest in homebrew?

Are you suggesting that region free Blu-Ray playback wouldn't be a benefit to those who could take advantage of it? Really, now?

Besides, his point is moot, since if the person in question has no interest in homebrew, and just wants to use his PS3 as intended, then he is perfectly free to do so. It's not like we're FORCING them to hack their machine OR ELSE THE KITTEN GETS IT.

You bring up fear, and you absolutely right that fear is what is motivating people to not want to accept this. Question for me is their fear wrong? There is already evidence of cheat apps coming out and hacked save files being used online, so while it is a fear it also a reality. Question is how bad will it become and if it becomes bad, do people have the right to be upset?

To the bolded; undoubtedly, the fear you hold is unfounded. As to whether online cheating will become worse as a result of CFW's existence: no, it will not - directly. Surely, cheaters will find ways to cheat at games on PSN, as they always have, but the mere act of applying geohot's patch to your firmware does not make you a cheat, or even a potential cheat. That line of thinking is like a radical feminist calling all men "potential rapists" - it's both offensive and paranoid.

A separate question for the homebrew crew, I though the team that did the original XMBC port said they would never make it run on another platform. So why are people so excited about a port to PS3? If I missed an announcement of someone doing a port then I would like a link to read.

I haven't heard of anyone doing a port yet, but the hope is that some enterprising soul in the community would put their hand to a port. If not, there's always the possibility of the addition of new formats (like MKV) to PS3's normal playback capabilities. Mind you, it's still really early days, and we've got a lot to discover yet.

Just for my general knowledge has the PS3 blue-ray been leaked yet? I remember marcan tweeting that he found it but wasn't going to release it because it was "very risky"? Is this still the case or is it out in the wild now? If its not out in the wild now, is the key necessary to accomplish a region free blue-ray hack?

I would think so, but since the Blu-Ray firmware is part of the PS3 fiirmware, well...

As for you, DrPirate...Anti-Cheat systems like PunkBuster and VAC are the responsibility of the service provider, not you. If Sony don't feel that it is important enough for them to do everything they can to prevent online cheating and ban cheaters, then I suggest you complain to them, not to homebrewers.

 

[plagiarize]

There's been online cheaters on practically every gaming platform to ever have online and it's not like everyone suddenly abandoned an entire platform because of a few cheaters. I don't understand why this time is completely different from every other time in the existence of networked gaming this has happened.

because volume of cheaters is key. if you're running into cheaters every time you try to play online that's very different to if you're running into cheaters every week or two.

so yes, anything that will increase the number of cheaters on a particular system is valid cause for concern.

i am aware of people abandoning certain games online because cheating became so rife, so its not without precident.

the cheaters will gravitate towards the most popular game online, so you won't have to abandon the entire network, but if you wanted to play that game, then yeah, it's going to suck.

i stopped playing Tetris online on my DS when i ran into three different people cheating in a row. i'm not sure if they were cheating using an M4 or some other means, but i do not that i never played online again.

 

[jmdajr]

i stopped playing Tetris online on my DS when i ran into three different people cheating in a row. i'm not sure if they were cheating using an M4 or some other means, but i do not that i never played online again.

wow, people will cheat in any fucking game.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

People who have wanted the CFW for years now are the winners, and those who didn't out of fear of the consequences are the big losers.... And the winners are gloating and poking fun.

Well, I'm in the camp who doesn't see the need for sides. I bought a PS3 back in Aught Seven when the 60 GB moved down to the low, low price of $499 because I wanted a new video game system/Blu-Ray player/general multi-media device, and it did the job I wanted. I haven't been waiting three long years for homebrew, and I probably won't use it anyway. In the interim, I built a nice PC that dual outputs to my monitor and big screen TV, so I already have all the cool functionality conveniently available that homebrew might bring without needing it on my PS3.

But that doesn't mean that I don't think the possibilities are cool regardless. Furthermore, it just seems to be the way things work. Maybe I just don't play games often enough on my PS3, but I wasn't a witness to this gaming utopia -- where everything was perfect because our benefactors at Sony protected us from all the wrong-doing in gaming -- that just couldn't exist on the PC, or the 360, or the Wii. Why couldn't it exist? Because the integrity of their systems had been compromised, that's why. For people who didn't like that gaming reality, there was the PS3, where nothing bad ever happened.

I'm not saying that nothing bad will come from opening up the system. To suggest that is disingenuous, regardless of whether or not the detrimental effects have any bearing on you, the individual. The opposite is also true, though. Good things will come from this, regardless of whether or not you or I take advantage of them. In the end, we're allowed to our opinions, but I don't understand this "line in the sand" approach where we must come to a definitive conclusion in regards to who is in the right.

 

[Zoe]

Region-free PS1, Region-free PS2 (if you have an early enough system), Region-free Blu-Ray; region-free DVD. Base functions of the PS3 which are potentially improved by CFW.

He's not asking what CFW provides. He's asking what does it do for a person who is absolutely never going to use it.

How does it affect the PSN climate? How does it affect developer support? How does it affect what Sony offers?

The only benefit I can imagine is it may force Sony's hand in enabling some features.

 

[plagiarize]

To the bolded; undoubtedly, the fear you hold is unfounded. As to whether online cheating will become worse as a result of CFW's existence: no, it will not - directly. Surely, cheaters will find ways to cheat at games on PSN, as they always have, but the mere act of applying geohot's patch to your firmware does not make you a cheat, or even a potential cheat. That line of thinking is like a radical feminist calling all men "potential rapists" - it's both offensive and paranoid.

i do not agree with you here. it will make online gaming worse, the only question is whether or not it will make it noticeably worse.

cheats will be easier to implement, and the cheats themselves will be much further reaching.

making cheating easier will lead to more cheats, just as making cheating harder will lead to less cheats. it won't make everyone a cheat if you make it easier, just as it won't stop everyone cheating to make it harder... but if you made it more difficult for men to rape women (like, say, security guards posted in every dark alley) then less women would get raped.

that doesn't mean that the expense of hiring all those guards would be worth it of course...

but of everyone that wants to cheat, some are put off by the current amount of effort required or the amount of reward available for the amount of effort. if less effort is required, or the same effort brings with it more reward, of the people that consider cheating, more of them will go through with it.

 

[kamorra]

He's not asking what CFW provides. He's asking what does it do for a person who is absolutely never going to use it.

How does it affect the PSN climate? How does it affect developer support? How does it affect what Sony offers?

The only benefit I can imagine is it may force Sony's hand in enabling some features.

So are we talking about benefits or downsides here? If you never use it you shouldn't expect any benefits. As for downsides. Who knows? Maybe there will be some, maybe Sony finds a way to minimize it. It's all pure speculation at this point.

 

[plagiarize]

wow, people will cheat in any fucking game.

Tetris DS cheating was horrible. basically, a cheat would ONLY get 4 x 1 bricks. it was really fucking annoying.

 

[Zoe]

So are we talking about benefits or downsides here? If you never use it you shouldn't expect any benefits. As for downsides. Who knows? Maybe there will be some, maybe Sony finds a way to minimize it. It's all pure speculation at this point.

Benefits. Because with the situation as it is now, a non-CFW user has nothing to gain and a whole lot to lose. That's why the CFW position has been called selfish.

 

[mclem]

He's not asking what CFW provides. He's asking what does it do for a person who is absolutely never going to use it.

If you choose not to upgrade your system to the new, updated firmware, you will lose some functionality; however, you are welcome to make that choice.

Sound familiar?

(The parallels don't work perfectly, but it's an interesting spin on it)

 

[jmdajr]

In the end, we're allowed to our opinions, but I don't understand this "line in the sand" approach where we must come to a definitive conclusion in regards to who is in the right.

Well people have strong opinions/feelings about these things, and if it was up to them, ideally, they would absolutely want it their way 100%. Yes, I do see selfishness on both sides and I don't think we can pick who is right completely.

Only solution is to meet in the middle. Right now we're far from it.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

isnt it an equally valid solution to tell Ieatepus that if he wants to play online that he needs to buy another console or not install custom firmware on the one he has?

Are you insinuating that the mere fact that he has CFW automatically means he'll cheat when playing online? What the hell!

 

[Emitan]

because volume of cheaters is key. if you're running into cheaters every time you try to play online that's very different to if you're running into cheaters every week or two.

so yes, anything that will increase the number of cheaters on a particular system is valid cause for concern.

i am aware of people abandoning certain games online because cheating became so rife, so its not without precident.

the cheaters will gravitate towards the most popular game online, so you won't have to abandon the entire network, but if you wanted to play that game, then yeah, it's going to suck.

i stopped playing Tetris online on my DS when i ran into three different people cheating in a row. i'm not sure if they were cheating using an M4 or some other means, but i do not that i never played online again.

I specifically said abandoning a platform not games. I ran into the same problem on Tetris DS (line pieces every turn for some people) but that didn't mean I was going to abandon the DS's online entirely (the fact that the online was terrible was the reason for that). And people have been hacking in online games on the 360 for years, but people still play. People might have been hacking somehow on PSN games but people still play. I doubt it's ever going to be widespread enough to ruin any but the games with the smallest communities.

 

[plagiarize]

Are you insinuating that the mere fact that he has CFW automatically means he'll cheat when playing online? What the hell!

no. i'm not insinuating that. i'm referring to Ieatepus posting that he didn't think it would be right for Sony to block people on custom firmware from using PSN.

i'm saying that a solution to *that* fear/problem would be to buy a second PS3, or not install CFW.

 

[Zoe]

I specifically said abandoning a platform not games.

There's been one or two people in this thread already who said they were about to jump ship from Live to PSN thanks to free gaming, but they're now second-guessing that decision.

 

[Emitan]

There's been one or two people in this thread already who said they were about to jump ship from Live to PSN thanks to free gaming, but they're now second-guessing that decision.

Which is why I brought that up. It seems like a huge over reaction to me. If cheating becomes so pervasive in every game I play that I no longer get enjoyment, I might start my Xbox Live subscription up again, but I think that's a very unlikely worst case scenario.

 

[Safe Bet]

The sad part of it all is those players who deserve to be praised for their skill will merely be labeled "cheaters" and the amount of people leaving mid-match, which everyone complains so loudly about, will only increase.

 

[plagiarize]

I specifically said abandoning a platform not games. I ran into the same problem on Tetris DS (line pieces every turn for some people) but that didn't mean I was going to abandon the DS's online entirely (the fact that the online was terrible was the reason for that). And people have been hacking in online games on the 360 for years, but people still play. People might have been hacking somehow on PSN games but people still play. I doubt it's ever going to be widespread enough to ruin any but the games with the smallest communities.

but anything that increases cheating makes it more widespread, and this will.

it might increase it a negligible amount. it might increae it a noticeble amount. that's why i don't think anyone is overreacting to be concerned about it.

lets say all those Tetris cheats were using M4s or Action Replays. those devices therefore made playing Tetris online worse for everyone that wasn't using them.

that's hypothetical of course, i'm not claiming that to be true, and i doubt that CFW will turn PSN into an unplayable cheat infested thing, but i don't think the argument can be 'CFW won't increase cheating' because it will.

'it won't increase it enough to ruin your experience' is going to depend on the games he plays. cause it might increase cheating in the games he plays enough to ruin his experience. it's not an irrational concern, it's entirely plausible.

likely? i don't think so. but plausible and therefore rational to be afraid of? i think so.

 

[kpeezy]

There's been one or two people in this thread already who said they were about to jump ship from Live to PSN thanks to free gaming, but they're now second-guessing that decision.

THE SLOPE IS SO SLIPPERY!!!!

 

[jmdajr]

Are you insinuating that the mere fact that he has CFW automatically means he'll cheat when playing online? What the hell!

I notice that the people who enjoy homebrew are VERY offended when anyone even suggests they might be annoying cheaters or evil pirates. "How dare you say that!" At the same time we have homebrew supporters who think people who are against homebrew and it's consequences as misinformed/overeacting boobs or simply need to grow up and "deal with it."

There is just not enough respect coming form either side.

 

[plagiarize]

The sad part of it all is those players who deserve to be praised for their skill will merely be labeled "cheaters" and the amount of people leaving mid-match, which everyone complains so loudly about, will only increase.

nothing sad about it. back in the day when i played online FPSs seriously to a high level, you weren't any good if you didn't get accused of cheating regularly.

you don't take offense at it, because you know it isn't true. you just keep killing the people accusing you of it and laughing the more upset they get. if they report you to the devs or Sony, when people who know wtf they're talking about look at the server logs, they'll see you weren't cheating.

hell i miss being called a cheat.

i suck so bad now

 

[Dambrosi]

Which is why I brought that up. It seems like a huge over reaction to me. If cheating becomes so pervasive in every game I play that I no longer get enjoyment, I might start my Xbox Live subscription up again, but I think that's a very unlikely worst case scenario.

The sad part of it all is those players who deserve to be praised for their skill will merely be labeled "cheaters" and the amount of people leaving mid-match, which everyone complains so loudly about, will only increase.

but anything that increases cheating makes it more widespread, and this will.
it might increase it a negligible amount. it might increae it a noticeble amount. that's why i don't think anyone is overreacting to be concerned about it.
lets say all those Tetris cheats were using M4s or Action Replays. those devices therefore made playing Tetris online worse for everyone that wasn't using them.
that's hypothetical of course, i'm not claiming that to be true, and i doubt that CFW will turn PSN into an unplayable cheat infested thing, but i don't think the argument can be 'CFW won't increase cheating' because it will.
'it won't increase it enough to ruin your experience' is going to depend on the games he plays. cause it might increase cheating in the games he plays enough to ruin his experience. it's not an irrational concern, it's entirely plausible.
likely? i don't think so. but plausible and therefore rational to be afraid of? i think so.

Again, it's up to the folks who run PSN to police their service and get rid of cheaters and their mechanisms. If Sony don't want to do their job properly, complain to them. Don't just blame those with CFW machines just because they have CFW on their machines - that's stupid.

 

[angelfly]

There's been one or two people in this thread already who said they were about to jump ship from Live to PSN thanks to free gaming, but they're now second-guessing that decision.

It also works the other way around. Sony cutting customers off from PSN will cause then to move over to Live as was the case with me when I was on 3.41. So I bought a Live sub and started buying more on the marketplace.

 

[plagiarize]

I notice that the people who enjoy homebrew are VERY offended when anyone even suggests they might be annoying cheaters or evil pirates. "How dare you say that!" At the same time we have homebrew supporters who think people who are against homebrew and it's consequences as misinformed/overeacting boobs or simply need to grow up and "deal with it."

There is just not enough respect coming form either side.

i don't blame anyone for thinking i'm saying crazy things. cause yesterday, i was evidentally saying crazy things in this very thread, so i take no offense at it.

like i say, i'm just trying to show BOTH sides that the other side has rational concerns, and that both sides are being irrational when they look at the other sides opinions.

i understand that it's frustrating because neither side has control over the things they're afraid of.

 

[Malvolio]

As much as I agree with those that want a cheat-free online experience and I never intend to load CFW, the real blame here must be placed on Sony's shoulders. There is no excuse for having CFW being applied this easily to a box that is the gateway to a walled garden. Sony left the gate open so it's no surprise that people are scoffing at the "No Trespassing" sign. By no means am I saying that they deserved this or that this justifies any cheats that are used from now on, but Sony is the one that promised to stand guard at that gate and they decided to take a nap. They are the ones who let us down.

 

[Zoe]

Again, it's up to the folks who run PSN to police their service and get rid of cheaters and their mechanisms. If Sony don't want to do their job properly, complain to them. Don't just blame those with CFW machines just because they have CFW on their machines - that's stupid.

The problem is nobody can read intent from a bunch of bits, and just because a person isn't cheating at this very instant doesn't mean they won't be 3 months from now. If Sony wants to prevent it from happening in the first place, they would have to act now.

Of course, this has all been hashed to death in the other thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418319

Anybody going to the next hearing in 30 minutes?

 

[Emitan]

but anything that increases cheating makes it more widespread, and this will.

it might increase it a negligible amount. it might increae it a noticeble amount. that's why i don't think anyone is overreacting to be concerned about it.

lets say all those Tetris cheats were using M4s or Action Replays. those devices therefore made playing Tetris online worse for everyone that wasn't using them.

that's hypothetical of course, i'm not claiming that to be true, and i doubt that CFW will turn PSN into an unplayable cheat infested thing, but i don't think the argument can be 'CFW won't increase cheating' because it will.

'it won't increase it enough to ruin your experience' is going to depend on the games he plays. cause it might increase cheating in the games he plays enough to ruin his experience. it's not an irrational concern, it's entirely plausible.

likely? i don't think so. but plausible and therefore rational to be afraid of? i think so.

I don't believe it will increase it to a level where abandoning the platform is a possibility. You might run into 12 years with aim bots on Call of Duty 23 (I'll admit that as soon as CoD loving children figure this out those games are probably doomed), or wallhacks in Killzone 3, but I don't think enough people will be using them to be any more than a minor annoyance, the way griefing is now. But this is obviously my opinion and there's no way for us to know who's right until a few months from now.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

At the same time we have homebrew supporters who think people who are against homebrew and it's consequences as misinformed/overeacting boobs or simply need to grow up and "dead with it."

Aside from a few stray people who might exhibit a smug, dismissive attitude, I think the general reaction isn't so much "you people don't know what you're talking about" in as much as it is that I think the worst is being assumed to make a rhetorical point. The argument is not that this won't create any issues whatsoever, and to think so is idiotic. The argument is that, assuming Sony knows what they're doing and is proactive, this shouldn't be much of an issue. Other platforms can be exploited, and yet life goes on.

This isn't a "deal with it losers!" post, but I do think that we should wait and see how this plays out before we assume the worst. The same could be said from the other perspective as well, though. It could be argued that, before we hail the deluge of great homebrew software this will surely bring, we should wait for something tangible to show up first.

 

[acm2000]

dear lord, the mods really need to get a grip on this thread >_< some of the people in here... high horses? what high horses? IM RIDING MY HORSE ON THE MOON MOTHER F*CKER

 

[plagiarize]

Again, it's up to the folks who run PSN to police their service and get rid of cheaters and their mechanisms. If Sony don't want to do their job properly, complain to them. Don't just blame those with CFW machines just because they have CFW on their machines - that's stupid.

i don't blame people with CFW on their machines. other people may be saying that, but i'm not.

i'm just saying that CFW will lead to more people cheating, because it will.

i don't want people to get banned from PSN for running CFW, i just don't think there's anything wrong in Sony doing it. i also don't think there's anything wrong with hackers finding ways around the new protections and getting people with CFW back online.

CFW will lead to more piracy. it will lead to more cheating.

saying that is not saying that everyone that wants to run CFW is a pirate or a cheat. that would be demonstratably untrue and i'm making no such accusations.

i'm not 'blaming' anyone for the situation at hand, i'm just trying to describe the impacts of that situation as i see them. more piracy and more cheating is one such impact. likelihood of getting locked out of PSN is another. region free blu-rays, emulators, backups and lots of other legitmately cool uses are another.

 

[Dead Man]

nothing sad about it. back in the day when i played online FPSs seriously to a high level, you weren't any good if you didn't get accused of cheating regularly.

you don't take offense at it, because you know it isn't true. you just keep killing the people accusing you of it and laughing the more upset they get. if they report you to the devs or Sony, when people who know wtf they're talking about look at the server logs, they'll see you weren't cheating.

hell i miss being called a cheat.

i suck so bad now

I've never been called a cheat

 

[jmdajr]

Aside from a few stray people who might exhibit a smug, dismissive attitude, I think the general reaction isn't so much "you people don't know what you're talking about" in as much as it is that I think the worst is being assumed to make a rhetorical point. The argument is not that this won't create any issues whatsoever, and to think so is idiotic. The argument is that, assuming Sony knows what they're doing and is proactive, this shouldn't be much of an issue. Other platforms can be exploited, and yet life goes on.

Well I'm not going to count posts or name names. But the people who do respond in that manner probably didn't help my feelings regarding the situation.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

i don't blame anyone for thinking i'm saying crazy things. cause yesterday, i was evidentally saying crazy things in this very thread, so i take no offense at it.

like i say, i'm just trying to show BOTH sides that the other side has rational concerns, and that both sides are being irrational when they look at the other sides opinions.

i understand that it's frustrating because neither side has control over the things they're afraid of.

What I don't understand most of all is why there's any sides at all - the core matter that a lot of us are concerned with isn't CFW or cheaters or any of that, it's the larger consumer rights questions and potential legal precedents that may be set here that end up hurting everyone in the long run. You may feel strongly one way or another on the PS3 specifically, but you may feel completely different if it's a different product.

 

[jcm]

I'm no legal expert but I don't think they're going to win. This really isn't different from jailbreaking mobile phones at all, which was made legal a few months ago.

The difference is that there's a DMCA exemption for jailbreaking mobile phones, and there is not one for game consoles.

 

[Dead Man]

What I don't understand most of all is why there's any sides at all - the core matter that a lot of us are concerned with isn't CFW or cheaters or any of that, it's the larger consumer rights questions and potential legal precedents that may be set here that end up hurting everyone in the long run. You may feel strongly one way or another on the PS3 specifically, but you may feel completely different if it's a different product.

Very good point. If a precedent is set that is anti consumer and it can be broadly applied, even if the outcome is good for online gaming on the PS3 the overall outcome might not be so rosy.

 

[Vinci]

What I don't understand most of all is why there's any sides at all - the core matter that a lot of us are concerned with isn't CFW or cheaters or any of that, it's the larger consumer rights questions and potential legal precedents that may be set here that end up hurting everyone in the long run. You may feel strongly one way or another on the PS3 specifically, but you may feel completely different if it's a different product.

Ding, ding. Nicely said.

 

[sangreal]

I'm no legal expert but I don't think they're going to win. This really isn't different from jailbreaking mobile phones at all, which was made legal a few months ago.

(2) Computer programs that enable wireless telephone handsets to execute software applications, where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of such applications, when they have been lawfully obtained, with computer programs on the telephone handset.

 

[Dead Man]

(2) Computer programs that enable wireless telephone handsets to execute software applications, where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of such applications, when they have been lawfully obtained, with computer programs on the telephone handset.

Right, which to my untechnical laymans perspective is very similar to the case at hand.

 

[Vinci]

(2) Computer programs that enable wireless telephone handsets to execute software applications, where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of such applications, when they have been lawfully obtained, with computer programs on the telephone handset.

I don't understand why that would specifically work for wireless phones and not other hardware, though. The reasoning would be the same. Or is there some unique aspect to mobile phones that innately separates judgments based on them from acting as some form of precedent?

 

[Emitan]

The difference is that there's a DMCA exemption for jailbreaking mobile phones, and there is not one for game consoles.

Yes, otherwise this wouldn't have gone to court. But I do not think modifying a PS3 is different from modifying a mobile phone. I would even argue that modifying your game console is more acceptable due to the fact that most mobile phones are subsidized through a contract with a carrier, while you pay for a console up front. And no, the fact that Sony subsidizes the price through software sales doesn't count for me. I believe that this is so similar to the phone case that modifying consoles will be just as legal as modifying phones.

 

[sangreal]

I don't understand why that would specifically work for wireless phones and not other hardware, though. The reasoning would be the same. Or is there some unique aspect to mobile phones that innately separates judgments based on them from acting as some form of precedent?

It doesn't matter what the reasoning is. That was not a "judgment." The DMCA gives the Librarian of Congress the authority to make exemptions to the anti-circumvention provision every 3 years. Last year the Librarian decided to make an exemption for jailbreaking mobile phones. I would agree with you if a court had read the DMCA and decided that it doesn't apply to mobile phone jailbreaking. In that case the same reasoning could be applied to videogame consoles. Otherwise that exemption isn't really relevant unless you want to convince the Library of Congress that they should give videogames a similar exemption using the same reasoning in 3 years.

 

[Dead Man]

It doesn't matter what the reasoning is. That was not a "judgment." The DMCA gives the Librarian of Congress the authority to make exemptions to the anti-circumvention provision every 3 years. Last year the Librarian decided to make an exemption for jailbreaking mobile phones. I would agree with you if a court had read the DMCA and decided that it doesn't apply to mobile phone jailbreaking. In that case the same reasoning could be applied to videogame consoles.

Ah.