Phoenix Fang
Banned
I don't really care what Sessler has to say, I've tried the controller for myself and it still uncomfortable to play with. It still has a shitty layout.
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Sony tested Xbox stick layout for DualShock 4
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
I don't really care what Sessler has to say, I've tried the controller for myself and it still uncomfortable to play with. It still has a shitty layout.
MemoryHumanity
Member
Xbox layout is better, sorry. Shame the XB1 pad is a bag of shit.
Did you try it? What didn't you like?
Killing_Joke
Member
Good. At least they tried other layouts and realized how shitty it would be. PS has a lot of diverse games. Don't cater to the shooter crowd.
Oppo
Member
If anybody has stuck with convention this time around its Microsoft. I have never read a good argument for the left offset stick. Particularly for shooters, where the shoulder buttons have primacy.
It's not hard to get used to either but I think, personally, the dark truth of this supposedly hugely consequential design decision is that MS did it to set their controller apart from the dual shock, and in practicality it simply does not matter very much, apart from creating some initial muscle memory confusion when trying the competitor's controller. It's not hard to get used to both of them; I bounce constantly between the two and I think anyone with functioning hands can do the same. There's lots to prefer between the two but the stick placement is really not one of them.
(I do wonder what it's like for lefties though, if some of you wouldn't mind commenting on that.)
It's not hard to get used to either but I think, personally, the dark truth of this supposedly hugely consequential design decision is that MS did it to set their controller apart from the dual shock, and in practicality it simply does not matter very much, apart from creating some initial muscle memory confusion when trying the competitor's controller. It's not hard to get used to both of them; I bounce constantly between the two and I think anyone with functioning hands can do the same. There's lots to prefer between the two but the stick placement is really not one of them.
(I do wonder what it's like for lefties though, if some of you wouldn't mind commenting on that.)
Hitokiri03
Member
I cant wait to try those.
sixteen-bit
Member
I want to see the prototype shells.
I do fine on both. I can honestly switch back and forth and do well. And my KD ain't bad either (1.95 or so). I just need to have a slightly higher sensitivity on PS3.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Damn, wish no one posted this. It's my one big gripe against the PS3.. that I prefer the 360 controller so much more.
If Sony did the 360 stick placement it would have been no-brainer to adopt PS3 as my main console.
If Sony did the 360 stick placement it would have been no-brainer to adopt PS3 as my main console.
The fact the XB1 controller seemingly messed things up should be proving to many people that the problem was almost certainly mainly if not entirely with the ergonomics, not because of stick layout alone. And it's not as if the DS was out and out awful, it's just the made some forward progress during the PS1 days then froze, if you compared the original PS1 pad, the first Analog controller, then finally the DualShock 1 you should be able to see they were modifying and improving the ergonomics each time, but then stopped trying with the DS2 and worse with the PS3 modified L2/R2 to be triggers without really modifying the controller to accommodate this change otherwise. Had they continually sought to iterate much like the DS4 ultimately did we may well have had more and more comfortable controllers.
Well, maybe not in regards to how some people want sticks anyway, you compare the DS1, 2, and 3 sticks you can tell they clearly changed them each time, and the Analog sticks had straight up concave plastic caps entirely unlike every other Playstation analog stick since. Hell, like every other since period, Xbox only used concave rubber and Nintendo/Sega did convex plastic sticks, and while the Saturn had a concave top it wasn't even a stick.
Absolutely does. Asymmetrical sticks are superior, every time. Sony's controller design has annoyed me since the introduction of the Dual Analog. I get that they don't want to change it because the look is iconic, but it's an awkward and ridiculous holdover from an era that just didn't know any better. There's no reason in this age of modern ergonomic thinking that we should be reaching across the controller to the center just to operate the sticks. They were originally placed there because Sony didn't want to alienate people who would be slow to adapt to the analog sticks over the D-pad (and they didn't even know if it would catch on, really), but they have never updated the design to take into account the fact that the left stick is now the primary input element of the controller.
At least they finally went back to the concave sticks like the original Dual Analog. Baby steps.
* for you
Wrong. Xbox positioning of sticks is inferior. Dual shock works for pretty much all game types
It can be made to work. The leaving of the primary input devices on the interior of the controller so that you have to reach over 1/3 of the device to even manipulate it is just silly. Mere tradition, not any kind of rational ergonomic choice. When you're as big and successful as Sony you can make those choices, though, so it doesn't really matter. Nobody's going to refuse to buy a PS4 because of the stick placement.
Except for that reports are saying the ergonomics of this new DS4 are great, even with the sticks where they are.
If that's the case wouldn't the Wii U pro sticks' layout be better than a MS controller?
You still have to reach alllllllll the way over to the right stick on the 360 to use it.
Phoenix Fang
Banned
I prefer asymm because the left thumb sits on the stick for way longer periods of time than the right thumb, so it's better if it's closer to the default resting position of the thumb in your hand. That being said I've played hours on end on the DS3 and never had any problems with my left thumb feeling tired or anything, I'm just very happy they addressed a bunch of other far more important issues with the controller like the overall shape, the shitty sticks and the triggers.
GodParticle
Member
I couldn't stand the ps3 sticks, but I think that was mostly due to the looseness and convex nubs. Asymmetrical like the damn near perfect 360 controller is still best controller for me
Actually, something that came to mind for me, especially after all the "doesn't matter" posts: has it occurred to anyone else that maybe when testing prototypes they found the positioning came off as mostly arbitrary when all else was equal, and thus erred on the side of tradition rather than blindly following tradition? Admittedly this is just an extension of what I said about ergonomics spoiling the DS3 more than anything else, but do note how many people who swore by the 360 controller were blown away by the DS4, and the fact most of us who didn't mind the DS3 or even liked it are probably more than fine playing on the 360 controller so long as the D-Pad isn't important. I prefer the DS due to the D-Pad and versatility, but for the most part it's really just a small edge that only really influences where I go for a minority of games, usually platforms that don't block out the D-Pad entirely.
It doesn't matter where the sticks are as long as they feel better than before. I had no issue playing with DS3 but always knew it could be better. The improvements to the DS4 seem great but why did they not switch things up with Vita? I find using the sticks on that machine to be pretty uncomfortable.
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
Sony, you done messed up. The Xbox controller layout is supreme.
I never had an issue with stick location, but the convex buttons were a terrible idea. I also don't know who thought to make the L2 and R2 buttons bigger since most PS games use the L1 and R1 buttons more (once again, convex, not concave). Looking forward to testing out the DS4 when they have booths at my local EB.
TheGreyHulk
Member
ergonomics > symmetry
Wii U Pro controller works fine w/ shooters
360 controller works fine w/ shooters
DS3 is uncomfortable for me w/ shooters
main difference is that the Wii U pro controller + 360 pad haver far superior ergonomics vs the ancient DS3 shape. it's not about the asymmetric layout on the 360, it's about the ergonomics. the right stick is the accuracy stick (aim). it's in the same position on the ds3 and 360. the left stick doesn't mean squat to me.
ds4 has great looking ergonomics. longer thicker handles spaced further apart solves the ergo issues and it shouldn't be an issue once we all get our hands on it.
Wii U Pro controller works fine w/ shooters
360 controller works fine w/ shooters
DS3 is uncomfortable for me w/ shooters
main difference is that the Wii U pro controller + 360 pad haver far superior ergonomics vs the ancient DS3 shape. it's not about the asymmetric layout on the 360, it's about the ergonomics. the right stick is the accuracy stick (aim). it's in the same position on the ds3 and 360. the left stick doesn't mean squat to me.
ds4 has great looking ergonomics. longer thicker handles spaced further apart solves the ergo issues and it shouldn't be an issue once we all get our hands on it.
UpUpDownDown
Member
Devs should just allow you to swap movement to the dpad.
Then everyone can be happy. This also more closely emulates the W, A, S, D movement on pc (since the dpad is digital like keys on a keyboard) and may actually be preferred by some people.
*shrugs*
Then everyone can be happy. This also more closely emulates the W, A, S, D movement on pc (since the dpad is digital like keys on a keyboard) and may actually be preferred by some people.
*shrugs*
Mister Ribs
Banned
What about people who haven't sworn by symmetrical sticks since the 90s? I'm a big fan of the Saturn pad but uh, games have changed since then?
Absolutely doesn't. Ergonomics matter. Any position can be just as comfortable as the other give the right design.
So do you think that MS should do a symmetrical layout option for the X1 pad as well?
Thug Waffle
Member
whatever you say
HORRORSHØW
Member
Symmetrical all day err'day.
Pops Maellard
Member
Pretty much this. Dualshock 3 has issues just as the 360 pad does, but stick placement is not one of them. I will admit I rather dislike the way the Pro controller does things though; moving your thumb down to the buttons is incredibly awkward.
GravityMan
Member
I'm probably one of the few people here that is fine with both symmetrical and asymmetrical sticks, generally speaking. The DS3's issues were that the sticks were convex, too loose, not grippy enough and a bit too close together. My Wii Classic Controller Pro also has symmetrical sticks and those felt great.
Stabby McSter
Member
It takes like thirty seconds to adjust to the symmetrical feel. I prefer the 360 format over the traditional one, but I don't really care THAT much.
CouldBeWorse
Member
Symmetrical defense force is the newly-crowned most annoying defense force.
One of the lamest reasons that keeps being given. Stop it. I play tons of dpad-based games using dual shocks just fine despite the dpad being on a part of the controller that isn't symmetrical with the right analog stick.
See the thing is you only saying that because you preferred asymmetrical sticks.
Not seeing how this is so serious.