Father_Brain
Banned
I agree with most of the common criticisms of MoS and have no great love for the Reeve films. I can't imagine I'm alone in that.
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SonyGate: Sony Pictures Execs Hate Man of Steel
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I agree with most of the common criticisms of MoS and have no great love for the Reeve films. I can't imagine I'm alone in that.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Jon and Martha don't share Clark's invulnerability...
Doesn't change the fact he raised him like an asshole.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
I really doubt all the people who found MoS mediocre did so because of their love of the Reeves movies.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
I've always thought of the Reeves movies as corny, so no, that's not why I dislike MoS.
BadAss2961
Member
Snyder's old cinematographer is back for BvS. Expect it to look more like a classic Snyder flick (Watchmen, 300, Sucker Punch) than something inspired by Nolan.
Schweinehund
Member
In that case I can't make sense of the destruction criticism then. MoS has flaws (lol pa kent) but Superman not going out of his way to save one person while hundreds die every minute because of the terraforming machines isn't one of them, or people who believe superman could have reasoned with Zod ("I'm going to make them suffer, Kal. These humans you've adopted, I will take them all from you one by one." - Zod, sounds like he'd want to move the battle away from the city amirite), or they honestly believe there's any incarnation of superman that would choose Zod over the lives of innocents.
Dreams-Visions
Member
agreed. sometimes I really feel like some of us saw a completely different film. I suppose it depends on what you were looking for and how badly you wanted it vs simply hoping to be well-entertained and flexible.
pieatorium
Member
If you were entertained then i would agree that you definitely didn't see Man of Steel.
TacticalFox88
Banned
This is the type of bullshit that makes any meaningful discussion of the film pretty much moot
same. Reeves' movies honestly bore the shit out of me. This wasn't boring, but still a terrible movie under so many aspects
unholyrevenger72
Banned
People raised by an asshole end up being an asshole. Is Clark an Asshole?
I thought Superman Returns was better than Man of Steel when it comes down to the whole Superman-being-Super aspect. I think Man of Steel represents a much younger, immature, and basically less humane Superman who has yet to find out who he is for humanity, which doesn't make much sense given his upbringing.
Superman Returns is a sequel though and he's clearly out to save humanity the whole while, so you don't need that background development, it's just assumed.
There was a good video where a guy did an alternate Man of Steel storyboard type thing and I think it was better. The fight at the end of Man of Steel just seemed over the top and not something Superman would do. I mean, it was like 20 9/11s on the scale of destruction. The measly humans would put him on trial and ask him why he couldn't take the fight out of the city.
Superman Returns is a sequel though and he's clearly out to save humanity the whole while, so you don't need that background development, it's just assumed.
There was a good video where a guy did an alternate Man of Steel storyboard type thing and I think it was better. The fight at the end of Man of Steel just seemed over the top and not something Superman would do. I mean, it was like 20 9/11s on the scale of destruction. The measly humans would put him on trial and ask him why he couldn't take the fight out of the city.
BodiesWithoutOrgans
Member
MOS is a good movie only thing I didn't like is why Perry was black and Jimmy became Jenny and the church thing
Found it also weird but then i found out
"that was the bully from one of the flashbacks".
Why do you care? Being black or white does not define his character in any way.
eheh.
But, as boring and as bad as MoS was, it was still better than their new Amazing Spiderman movies (haven't seen the second one tho).
pieatorium
Member
Dont its way worse than the first
Fucking this. For somebody who hates superman, MOS actually got me interested in the lore of superman and I enjoyed the shit out of it for what it was. I think most of you critics are just having too high of a standard for these types of movies. Enjoy them for what they are, summer action movies which seldomly have any attributes worthy of praise outside the typical norms. You should probably lower your standards.
Also what the fuck would happen when basically happen if two gods fought in a highly populated area? For those saying he could have moved the fight, this isn't fucking dragon-ball z, That's what I did enjoy about this movie, it was somewhat grounded as to what would happen in reality. Not being a follower of the superman story I did like the aspect that CLARK DID MAKE MISTAKES WHEN DONNING THE SUIT THE FIRST TIME. Zod's goal at that moment in time was to murk Clark for what he just did and had little to none respect for human life so why would he be willing to move? And damn y'all, its a fucking summer blockbuster. Finally I actually haven't enjoyed a spider-man movie since the first two raimi renditions. AS2 left me with a bad taste after leaving the theatre.
D.Lo
Member
Yeah, ASM2 is very bad too. But just keeps its mediocrity 'small scale' and doesn't have MOS's completely unearned sense of self-importance.
Spiderman 2 > Spiderman 1 > Spiderman 3 = ASM > ASM2 > MOS.
He saved 7 billion people so I think her numbers might be a little off. MoS is an great movie just because it's not the romanticized crap we've seen in every other superhero flick. It's closer to what would happen if 2 very powerful creatures fought each other than any other similar movie.
It wasn't even a particularly good summer action movie, it was humourless throughtout, but particularly overwrought, ponderous and a bit incoherent for the first hour, then packed most of the action into overlong, repetitive sequences which were so overlong and repetitive that they became dull.
If you keep inferring that the guy is space Jesus (btw good job on the subtlety Snyder, there's a way of using religious iconography without fucking tattooing it to the insides of our eyelids) you might want to show him as something more than a depressed paranoid wrecking ball.
It was a shit film even by the low standards set by your average summer blockbuster. If you're a fan of destruction porn and flashy visuals then I can see why people might enjoy it, but there's little there other than that. It was essentially a joyless Michael Bay film with some vague arthouse pretensions.
GreenRobot
Banned
Well Superman does smooch Lois Lane right after obliterating a whole city by fighting. There are destroyed buildings all around him, and he decides to try fucking a reporter at the scene of Americas worst catastrophe.
I think these complaints are valid because they miss they point of the superman character, but I don't think its a big deal, and I don't think that is why Man of Steel is objectively a bad movie. There are many reasons it is a bad movie.
It has a shitty script that is full of philosophical gibberish, terrible acting, terrible action full of bad cgi, and horrible pacing with extremely boring action scenes taking up the whole movie.
Also Superman murders his own father.
I think these complaints are valid because they miss they point of the superman character, but I don't think its a big deal, and I don't think that is why Man of Steel is objectively a bad movie. There are many reasons it is a bad movie.
It has a shitty script that is full of philosophical gibberish, terrible acting, terrible action full of bad cgi, and horrible pacing with extremely boring action scenes taking up the whole movie.
Also Superman murders his own father.
lol. You'll never get traction on this position and trying to forward it questions your ability to gauge things "objectively".
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Gat damn
jts
...hate me...
I was watching MoS with GF, we were utterly falling asleep shortly after that Kevin Costner .gif scene, and no one of us wanted to resume the movie in the following days.
Cool story bro and all that. Well I was psyched to watch it and it turned out appalling, so whatever.
Sony is right on this one. It's refreshing to know that these companies are actually self-aware internally.
Cool story bro and all that. Well I was psyched to watch it and it turned out appalling, so whatever.
Sony is right on this one. It's refreshing to know that these companies are actually self-aware internally.
this is actually the only slightly good point I'd give to the movie, much like Godzilla, these aliens are on another league, which it's not completely wrong assumption to make. But it's also wrong because Superman is supposed to be Superman, not some prehistoric lizard who doesn't give a shit about humans
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The technical delivery is fine-ish if dull, the themes are literally not there. As I was watching in the theater for the very first time I was noticing how they were harping on about him being inspirational and they kept revisiting this "will mankind trust him?" thing over and over just talking about it and then they do...nothing with it. Sure maybe they're holding that for the sequel or something but that's shitty moviemaking and before someone says it no, the Marvel movies don't do the same thing. They don't gut their story to stick half of it in another film.
I mean, I guess that's true in the sense that themes can never be literally there, uh, but if you mean whether the film has themes, it has many, it just doesn't distill a complex real life into a cartoony slogan or crystalline scene... even if that's what genre film has programmed us to expect.
This was a cinema vérité slant, instead of "hit all the comic book movie check boxes (even if we check some)", which doesn't make it inherently better or worse, just different.
They do plenty on a personal level because it's Clark's story, not the world's. We still get glimpses of that with the markets freezing, the universal press coverage, etc, but that's not the story... there is no monolithic "mankind", mankind is made of men, so that theme is revisited again and again through individuals.
The reason the bully flashback occurs before the talk with the priest is because Clark's wrestling with whether humanity is going to turn on him. The bully is their capacity for evil, Pete's extension of compassion is their capacity for change, and his father reminds him of the choice... that it isn't a given, an assumption, or effortless default that Clark's going to be good. This is turning over in his mind when he uses the priest as a sounding board, who shows him trust in return by not freaking out or pushing an agenda on him. Clark doesn't give him much time to do much more than toss a slogan at him, but it likely affirms what Clark was already going to do.
Superman takes the leap and then the microcosm of humanity he is interacting with- the military- go from "shoot on sight" to "this man is not our enemy" to "team up against the enemy" to "entrusted to act as liaison to Washington." That theme of winning people over is a common modern Superman theme and doesn't just take it for granted that a single public rescue means an adoring public.
"Are you effing stupid?" is a remarkable sign of trust. You don't get to say that to Zod. Hell, you probably can't even say that to your boss.
It's nowhere near as crystalline as "Why do we fall?" or "With great power..." but I'm okay with a different take which tries to avoid those kinds of conceits.
GrandHarrier
Member
If they were self aware internally they'd stop making Spider-Man movies. They've yet to make a mediocre one, let alone a good one. They just keep churning out shit.
I don't even like man of steel but all the rami & amazing spidermans are trash along with all the xmen movies, man of steel was at least better then those.
That. Or at least Adam Sandler movies.
That make loads of money.
The leaks suggest these execs at least have some taste, even their own stuff. Maybe they don't bother sticking their oar in or have and we're none the wiser.
I don't care for the Spiderman films old and new or Man of Steel or X-Men. There all varying levels of good to bad, mostly bad but I hope they make something consistently good out of them one day.
Their opinion isn't invalid because they oversee some bad films.
If Affleck and co have written a good story which might mean some acting this time around and possibly chemistry, Snyder has no excuse. I'm no fan of his but he will be holding all the cards now. The annoying thing is it could be terrible like MoS but the premise of the film guarantees box office hit so he can't lose and we'll either be stuck with a good film and sequel or a bad one and bad sequel that maybe poisons the planned DC film universe. Hope he learned a lot of lessons and change the filter. Roll on 2016.
True of all franchises. I mean Marvel made Thor 2, a wretched and rubbish film, but the train can't stop. Same with some of those awful Yates Harry Potter films - they're planning years ahead so the film being rubbish just means he'll direct more grim and aesthetically revolting films.
Only way to win is not seeing stuff you find objectionable. If we pay, why the Hell should they strive for better?
Schweinehund
Member
Jenny isn't Jimmy and vice versa, last name confirms this and snyder says so as well
BvS
Jimmy is rumored to be in it with prosthetics or something like that, from the damage caused by the world engine
Winterfang
Banned
I think man of Steel is great. I like the cast
Exactly, I came in the theater expecting high production values and its exactly what I got, anything outside of that would be a pleasant surprise if executed properly. Not disappointed and slightly entertained.
I honestly feel like most summer actions movies aren't good when judged as a film wholly, but some are highly entertaining to watch(does that make sense?) As long as I am somewhat entertained by a film I don't necessarily nitpick(regarding summer action films).
Also I was highly disappointed by days of future past, I even fell asleep in the theater during the last fight sequence which was a first for me. Did you at least enjoy Michael Shannon as Zod?
jombag
Member
yup me too. I cant wait for BvS
Ascenion
Member
Man of Steel isn't a bad movie and neither is ASM2 for that matter. I mean yes as a fan of both Supes and Spidey certain parts make me cringe, but they have high notes. For starters MoS made Supes fucking relevant in film for the first time in this century and it didn't have him fight a damn tornado, with the highlight being saving a crashing plane. ASM has given us imo, the best Spider-Man so far. I hope to God Andrew keeps the role. So much better than Tobey. ASM2 just hit the Raimi 3 problem of too much shit, too soon, too fast. If they redid it with just Electro as the focus building to Goblin, how many of you would've probably thought better of it? I'd guess a lot, but seriously Sony throw shade when your own franchise isn't standing on thin ice.
I thought it was pretty obvious he had no choice. During a situation of life or death you don't get to chose how many people will die during the fight.
... fear of people eventually falling out of favor? They're going up against a juggernaught in motion in Marvel, if you don't think WB is going to aim as high as they possibly can out of some weird sense of laziness or corporate greed then you're mistaken.
Everything Kevin Tsujihara has said from the moment they announced the DCCU and the screenwriters/directors/actors/composers they've brought on board show they are dead serious in trying to put on a good product. Not saying they will succeed in making good movies, but they will not fail for lack of trying. They are putting $2B a year into marketing alone, you don't make a $12-3B gamble over 5 years and not do your damn best to try to put out as best of a product as you can.
Also: Even the worst HP movie was reviewed better than the majority of the MCU... that's a really strange example/comparision you brought up.
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