Bobby Roberts
Banned
I was wondering when that article was gonna get linked.
It's a good one, as Seitz's almost always are.
Your uncle was a fictional character?The last family death I ended up skipping the wake and attending the funeral, which ended up being closed casket. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure whether or not my uncle is dead since I never saw his corpse. Its open to interpretation.
You can throw around scare quotes all you want but it doesn't change the fact that in the text, Tony doesn't die. This fixation on authorial intent is also bothersome... what Chase has to say on his work after release is just another interpretation.To those that have been presented with all the evidence and still say it's "ambiguous", that we can never know, etc...
Chase initially said If you look at the final episode really carefully, its all there. in response to questions about whether or not Tony is dead. Since then he's admitted to being dismayed by the reaction and he's deliberately spoken in more uncertain terms. More philosophically. But his initial words still ring true. It's all there.
I actually just came across this article that adds more to what I'm saying and is a bit harsher with Chase.
Don't be so hyperbolic. That was one use of quotes because it's the word being used. And there is no fixation. It's simply me providing Chase's own interpretation the day after the finale aired, while taking into account the actual construction of Tony's final moments. I agree with Chase. You don't have to.You can throw around scare quotes all you want but it doesn't change the fact that in the text, Tony doesn't die. This fixation on authorial intent is also bothersome... what Chase has to say on his work after release is just another interpretation.
I choose to conclude 25. Fine if you don't.Basically the whole season set up the equation of 2+7+33-17 =
Ironically Chase got exactly what he wanted in terms of authorial intent: ambiguity.You can throw around scare quotes all you want but it doesn't change the fact that in the text, Tony doesn't die. This fixation on authorial intent is also bothersome... what Chase has to say on his work after release is just another interpretation.
Well put, especially the bolded part. The glimpse into Tony's anxiety we get througout the scene is what matters, not whether he got whacked in this diner, on this day. Because that's the fear he'll have to live with until the end.Ironically Chase got exactly what he wanted in terms of authorial intent: ambiguity.
The ending is designed to preclude a definite view. Sure it's shot as though Tony gets whacked - all the clues are indeed there as Chase noted and shot by shot deconstruction show - but by deliberately withholding the conclusion - for example the final shot of Tony looking up could have gun approaching his Temple then cut to black POV - Chase also got his "it doesn't matter" ending too.
As viewers were left uncertain and experience a sense of Tony's life: a constant expectation "this might be it" that will never knowingly be resolved because we don't even be aware of the resolution - as the cut to black shows.
Got to hand it to Chase and the team. Would have been easy to show Tony actually get shot or just confirm today wasn't the day and leave it as a threat but they found a way to have their cake and eat it with c instruction of that scene and how they shot it.
There never will be a clear outcome: Tony is the equivalent of Schrödinger's cat; we don't know if he's alive or not and we can't look in the box to find out.
My absolute all-time favourite television ending.
Perfection.
Not really.
What is this supposed to show?
This is how I took it as well.Unless Chase confirms that he died, I'll always take it as Tony's paranoia and fear consuming him for the rest of his life.
That life goes on. There's no big redemption or turning point. They went through some shit. They dealt with it. Tomorrow's gonna have it's own problems to deal with.I thought the ending was supposed to show how unsettling Tony's life is every waking moment, not that he got clipped. He might have been, I guess, who cares. But we aren't shown that.
What is this supposed to show?
The camera specifically following the Italian-American man in the "Members Jacket" as he walks across the diner and enters the bathroom as a means of highlighting his significance, in such a way that the Soprano family are rendered almost insignificant in the shot.
I'll add it also emphasised the location of the door to the men's room.The camera specifically following the Italian-American man in the "Members Jacket" as he walks across the diner and enters the bathroom as a means of highlighting his significance, in such a way that the Soprano family are rendered almost insignificant in the shot.
Yup. On top of everything else about the way that scene is structured and foreshadowed, it's using a piece of pop culture iconography to make it clear what's going on.
I think it's a bit much to take that as an absolute certainty that Tony gets got. I think the show just wants us to suspect nearly everybody in that diner, because that's how Tony lived.
I'll add it also emphasised the location of the door to the men's room.
When he comes out he'll be walking directly towards Tony approaching from the side.
If he were to shoot Tony on emerging as Tony looked forward to the door Tony wouldn't know a thing. Curtains. Cut to black.
It's so simply done; setting up the scene such that Tony could get killed but of course it could just be a false alarm and he's just taking a leak.
True - should have called that out too. Her delay left him staring straight ahead a lot checking the door and exposed on the side.Further to that it shows where Meadow would be sitting if she didn't stuff around parking for so long. Shot from the bathroom would have been obscured some, and things wouldn't have gone nearly as cleanly.
There WAS a reason after all for constantly coming back to Meadow and showing her trying to park for so long
I'll add it also emphasised the location of the door to the men's room.
When he comes out he'll be walking directly towards Tony approaching from the side.
If he were to shoot Tony on emerging as Tony looked forward to the door Tony wouldn't know a thing. Curtains. Cut to black.
It's so simply done; setting up the scene such that Tony could get killed but of course it could just be a false alarm and he's just taking a leak.
Further to that it shows where Meadow would be sitting if she didn't stuff around parking for so long. Shot from the bathroom would have been obscured some, and things wouldn't have gone nearly as cleanly.
There WAS a reason after all for constantly coming back to Meadow and showing her trying to park for so long
Cutting to Meadow parking was my way of building up the tension and building up the suspense, but more than that I wanted to demonstrate the lyrics of the song, which is streetlights, people walking up and down the boulevard, because that's what the song is saying. 'Strangers waiting.' I wanted you to remember that is out there. That there are streetlights and people out there and strangers moving up and down.
Obviously as noted it's designed to imply and not be definite so of course they don't have that kind of traditional hit (and indeed you can take this as casting doubt on whether he is a hit man).But repeatedly in the show, if someone was to get killed, they just walk up and shoot them. Nobody is hanging around in front of a bunch of witnesses for twenty minutes. They would have walked in the door, straight to Tony and killed him.
At the time the ending irked me.
Looking back at it l. I find it perfect.
Quoting someone else's work is "doing it"? Okay.This thread is all the proof anyone needs that Six Feet Under is by far the better ending. Anybody can do ambiguity. The Lady or The Tiger? There I just did it. That's how incredibly original ambiguity is. It's the easy way out when you cant figure out how to end a story yourself.
Yes, and that reason is nothing more than that it's part of the song
It's not ambiguous. The final scene establishes a pattern wherein the bell rings, Tony looks up, then we are a shot from his POV. In the final moment, the bell rings, Tony looks up and his POV is an extended cut of nothing. It would only be ambiguous if the credits hit right after he looked up and we didn't get to see his POV. But we do get to see it, for a deliberately long duration, and it's oblivion. Season Six Part II went out of the way to prepare the viewer for this kind of hit and even had a heavy-handed flashback of one of these scenes in the penultimate episode to drive it home. Tony is dead. I'm sure many of the linked videos lay this out.
That said, I do like the idea that the scene also represents Tony's self-imposed paranoia. The fact that he scrutinizes the cub scout leader is vintage Sopranos dark humor.
I think Chase talks as if it's ambiguous so he can spur on the debate and mess with the conversation. It's clear he became disenchanted with the audience and in part the way he depicted Tony's death is a jab at them. Much like Funny Games, he's robbing the audience of the cathartic violence they want.
He achieved what he wanted but it's still an underwhelming ending to a season that didn't really live up to the quality it already set out. Still the GOAT show - Jersey!
You know, Quasimodo predicted all this.
Unless Chase confirms that he died, I'll always take it as Tony's paranoia and fear consuming him for the rest of his life.
I'm not sure he was that super paranoid during the scene though. Sure he is some cos he's a mob boss and all. But with the Carlo situation seemingly under control and Phil Leotardo out of the picture I think he was a little more relaxed then normal. I took every time he looked up at the bell as being anxious for his family arriving. He clearly lets his guard down more then a few times perusing juke box selections and menu's, and doesn't even notice MOG until he walks right by him. And this was despite the fact that he walked in, right in front of AJ. Again, he was anxious and excited to be catching up with his family that he didn't see the dude that (very likely) killed him until he walked straight in front of him.
My family abhors the ending because they are extremely cynical -- thinking it was created this way so that the series could return at a later date. I personally love it.