• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

South Korea ship sinking near NK

Status
Not open for further replies.
Terrell said:
Must have thought that Robert Downey Jr's ass was more topical than death and conflict in the Koreas.
We were?

I should probably put my pants back on then.

edit: Reading the top of the page... I think I should put my pants back on.

*backs away very slowly*
 
Unconfirmed that leaflets were dropped over South Korea today.. that read.

It was the North Koreans who bombed our ship. We ( South Koreans) just close our eyes to it and do nothing. We must not close our eyes and do nothing.....Our ship was hit and our Navy just fled...

Its believed that they may have been dropped in a Northerly wind by NK to stir up unrest. Things could get really ugly fast here.
 
fastford58 said:
Nothing will come of this except some harsh words and maybe more sanctions (if that is even possible).

Yeah, on the list of awful things North Korea has tried to do to South Korea since the truce temporarily ending the Korean War, this isn't even that high in terms of death toll compared to the airline bombings, multiple assassination attempts, and the famous assault on the Blue House (imagine a bunch of foreign troops attacking the White House, and realistically not in MW2).
 
pestul said:
Unconfirmed that leaflets were dropped over South Korea today.. that read.



Its believed that they may have been dropped in a Northerly wind by NK to stir up unrest. Things could get really ugly fast here.

do you have a link?

BattleMonkey said:
Time to grow a pair South.

Indeed.

A proportional response would be to sink one of their subs, but that would obviously just lead to an escalation of force, and as a singular act would serve little tactical purpose
 
Jamesfrom818 said:
Must be weird living in Seoul. Knowing if you start shit, artillery thats been targeting your city would just level the place.

that's not true

the only thing that can reach Seoul, are MLRS, SCUD, and Heavy artillery.

The thousands of small artillery would have to move about 20 miles across the border to hit Seoul.

I'm fairly certain ROK forces could prevent that.
 
dogmaan said:
that's not true

the only thing that can reach Seoul, are MLRS, SCUD, and Heavy artillery.

The thousands of small artillery would have to cross about 20 miles across the border to hit Seoul.

So its proportional to living in Newark? :D

BattleMonkey said:
Time to grow a pair South.
Compared to the last two Presidents, Lee, has shown tremendous strength in his policy of not taking shit from/being the bitch of North Korea
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Yeah, on the list of awful things North Korea has tried to do to South Korea since the truce temporarily ending the Korean War, this isn't even that high in terms of death toll compared to the airline bombings, multiple assassination attempts, and the famous assault on the Blue House (imagine a bunch of foreign troops attacking the White House, and realistically not in MW2).

Yes. The risk of a large scale confrontation and the costs associated with such in both money and manpower terms far outweigh the loss of a ship and some crewmen.
 
fastford58 said:
Yes. The risk of a large scale confrontation and the costs associated with such in both money and manpower terms far outweigh the loss of a ship and some crewmen.

That's a pragmatic outlook from (I assume) a non South Korean.

The problem is, what if the SK civilian population calls for a response, If the current President/Ruling Party see's their polls dipping due to inaction and civilian outrage, I am not saying it is necessarily rational, but there will certainly be a response.

At the moment though I think the general populace aren't THAT heated up about it, that could change if moods shift, and it's 100% confirmed that NK basically Murdered 48(?) sailors.
 
dogmaan said:
That's a pragmatic outlook from (I assume) a non South Korean.

The problem is, what if the SK civilian population calls for a response, If the current President/Ruling Party see's their polls dipping due to inaction and civilian outrage, there will certainly be a response.

Yeah, but I don't see that as happening. As one Korean friend of mine put it, "most young Koreans are morons in regards to international politics and just want to hug the North." (the sunshine policy) I can't imagine a situation sort of a large (and I mean large attack) that would lead to South Korean offensive action.

The older generation (people who lived through the Korean War) are the most pro-Defense not the younger generation.

fastford58 said:
Yes. The risk of a large scale confrontation and the costs associated with such in both money and manpower terms far outweigh the loss of a ship and some crewmen.

Yeah, and while I don't blame South Korea for wanting (and absolutely having the legal right) to retaliate, they're stuck in a crappy situation.

Here are some highlights from the North Korean Greatest Hits Collection (and I heavily emphasis the word some.

The Blue House Raid

On January 19, 1968, an armed North Korean guerrilla unit under the Revolutionary Party for Reunification attempted to assassinate Park and nearly succeeded. They were spotted by four South Korean civilians out cutting wood. After spending several hours trying to indoctrinate the civilians about the benefits of communism, the guerrillas let the civilians free with a stern warning not to notify the police. However, the civilians informed the police that very night.

The guerrillas entered Seoul in two- and three-man cells on January 20 and noticed the increased security measures that had been implemented throughout the city. Realising their original plan had little chance of success, the team leader improvised a new plan. Changing into ROK Army uniforms of the local 26th Infantry Division, complete with the correct unit insignia, which they had brought with them, they formed up and prepared to march the last mile to the Blue House, posing as ROK Army soldiers returning from a counter guerrilla patrol. The unit marched toward the Blue House, passing several National Police and ROK Army units en route. Approximately 800 meters from the Blue House, a police contingent finally halted the unit and began to question them. The nervous North Koreans fumbled their replies, and when one suspicious policeman drew his pistol, a commando shot him. A melee then ensued in which two infiltrators died. The rest of the North Koreans scattered and began racing for the DMZ.

For the next several days, South Korean and American soldiers and police cooperated in a massive manhunt. Three infiltrators were pursued and killed in the Seoul area, while 25 others were eventually hunted down and killed in various firefights, with one infiltrator being captured. Only two of the thirty-one North Koreans could not be accounted for. During the course of this assassination attempt, South Korean casualties totaled sixty-eight killed and sixty-six wounded—mainly army and police but also about two dozen civilians. Three Americans also died and three were wounded in attempts to block the escaping infiltrators.[7] Of thirty North-Korean commandos, all but Kim Shin-Jo were killed.


he 1996 Gangneung submarine infiltration incident occurred on September 18, 1996, near the South Korean town of Gangneung. The incident was one of the more serious instances of North Korean espionage involving naval forces.

On September 15, a North Korean Sang-O class submarine landed a three person special operations reconnaissance team on the shores near Gangneung. Their mission was to spy on the naval installations in the area and then return. The submarine made a failed attempt to collect the team on the 17th, and returned the following day. The submarine, however, ran aground in the attempt, and all efforts to try to make her free were in vain.

The crew then decided to destroy the sensitive equipment in the submarine and try to make it to the DMZ. The crew split up in several groups but one was soon spotted by a civilian who became suspicious and alerted the authorities, who quickly mobilized 40,000 soldiers, along with helicopters and search dogs.

A 49-day long manhunt ensued, from 18 September through 5 November, resulting in the capture or elimination of all the crew and members of the reconnaissance team, except one, who is believed to have made it back to North Korea. 16 South Korean soldiers and civilians died and 27 were wounded. Of the 26 North Korean infiltrators, 1 was captured, 11 were murdered by the other members or died from a murder-suicide, 13 were killed in firefights with the ROK Army, and 1 reportedly escaped back to North Korea. Some analysts suspected that the motivation behind the assassination of Choe Deok-geun, South Korean consul for the Russian Far East, was retaliation for these killings.

The submarine was salvaged and towed to a naval base for investigation. One captured crewmember, the submarine's helmsmen, Lee Kwang Soo, gave in after much interrogation and revealed much of the plans. He later became an instructor in the South Korean Navy.

North Korea was at first reluctant at taking responsibility and claimed that the submarine had suffered an engine failure and had drifted aground, but issued an official apology on December 29. The following day, the remains of the infiltrators were returned to North Korea.

Korean Air Flight 858 was en route from Abu Dhabi to Bangkok on 29 November 1987 when it exploded over the Andaman Sea, killing all 115 on board. Two North Korean agents had boarded the plane in Baghdad and departed during its stopover in Abu Dhabi having left a time bomb in an overhead compartment. The agents were arrested when they attempted to leave Bahrain using fake Japanese passports, and both immediately swallowed cyanide capsules. The male, later identified as 70-year-old Kim Sung Il, died almost instantly, but the female suspect, 26-year-old Kim Hyon Hui, survived.[1]
 
Lee obviously doesn't want war, but short of hostilities I'm not entirely sure what he can do. There are already pretty stringent sanctions on NK, so petitioning the UN isn't really an option. I suppose he could further postpone the six party talks, but I don't know what that would accomplish.
 
Peronthious said:
Lee obviously doesn't want war, but short of hostilities I'm not entirely sure what he can do. There are already pretty stringint sanctions on NK, so petitioning the UN isn't really an option. I suppose he could further postpone the six party talks, but I don't know what that would accomplish.

Yeah, it's not even like you can launch a proportional response (say a limited naval or assault on the facility where the sub is or one of its class could in theory be based at).

I have to say this is one of the more civil international politics thread I've ever seen on the internet, the Chavez faction of GAF must have missed it. :D
 
Hari Seldon said:
Sink a NK sub, blame it on an engine explosion.

Unless SK announced the incident (thus potentially taking responsibility), it would be unlikely that the public would hear about that scenario, The DPRK won't want to advertise that one of their invincible blessed subs was sunk :D .

Does ROK have the equivalent of SOSUS to detect subs?
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
After spending several hours trying to indoctrinate the civilians about the benefits of communism, the guerrillas let the civilians free with a stern warning not to notify the police. However, the civilians informed the police that very night.

OMG. :lol
 
North Korea threatens 'all-out war'
South hopes to make North admit responsibility for sinking of warship

100520-torpedo-hmed-120a.hmedium.jpg
image from the recovered wreckage of sunk ship.

SEOUL - North Korea said Thursday that South Korea fabricated evidence implicating the North in a torpedo attack in order to pick on the North and any attempt at retaliating for the warship's sinking would be answered with "all-out war."

South Korean President Lee Myung-bak vowed "stern action" for the attack after a multinational investigation issued its long-awaited results Thursday, concluding the North fired a torpedo that sank the Cheonan navy ship March 26 near the Koreas' tense sea border.

"If the (South Korean) enemies try to deal any retaliation or punishment or if they try sanctions or a strike on us ... we will answer to this with all-out war," Col. Pak In Ho of North Korea's navy told broadcaster APTN in an exclusive interview in Pyongyang.
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here

An international civilian-military investigation team said evidence overwhelmingly proves a North Korean submarine fired a homing torpedo that caused a massive underwater blast that tore the Cheonan apart.

Fifty-eight sailors were rescued from the frigid Yellow Sea, but 46 perished in the South's worst military disaster since the Korean War.

Since the 1950-53 war on the Korean peninsula ended in a truce rather than a peace treaty, the Koreas remain locked in a state of war and divided by the world's most heavily armed border.

Show of force?
South Korea and the U.S., which has 28,500 troops on the peninsula, could hold joint military exercises in a show of force, said Daniel Pinkston, a Seoul-based analyst for the International Crisis Group think tank.

South Korean and U.S. officials also said they are considering a variety of options in response to the warship's sinking, ranging from U.N. Security Council action to additional U.S. penalties.

The exchange of war rhetoric raised tensions, but the isolated communist regime — already under international pressure to cease its nuclear weapons program — often warns of dire consequences against South Korea or Washington for any punitive steps against it.

Its large but decrepit military would be no match for U.S. and Korean forces.

The impoverished country is already chafing from international sanctions tightened last year in the wake of widely condemned nuclear and missile tests.

U.N. sanctions currently block funding to certain officials and companies, while North Korea is barred from exporting weapons and countries are authorized to inspect North Korean ships suspected of carrying illicit cargo.

South Korea "will take resolute countermeasures against North Korea and make it admit its wrongdoings through strong international cooperation," Lee said during a call with Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, the presidential office said.

Lee convened an emergency meeting for Friday.

'Inexcusable'
The White House called the sinking an unacceptable "act of aggression" that violates international law and the 1953 truce that ended the war.

Japanese Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama declared his support for South Korea, calling North Korea's actions "inexcusable."

China, North Korea's traditional ally, called the sinking of the naval ship "unfortunate" but stopped short of backing Seoul.

Pyongyang continued its steadfast denials of involvement in the sinking.

"Our Korean People's Army was not founded for the purpose of attacking others. We have no intention to strike others first," Col. Pak, the naval spokesman, told APTN in the North Korean capital. "So why should we attack a ship like the Cheonan which has no relation with us, no need to strike it and we have no significance in doing so."

North Korea has waged a slew of attacks on South Korea since the 1950-53 fighting ended, including the 1987 downing of a South Korean airliner that killed all 115 people on board.

Pyongyang has never owned up to the attacks.

North Korea also disputes the maritime border drawn unilaterally by U.N. forces at the close of the Korean War and the waters have been the site of several deadly naval clashes.

Detailed scientific analysis of the wreckage, as well as fragments recovered from the waters where the Cheonan went down, point to North Korea, investigators said.

The bending of the ship's keel backs the theory that an underwater torpedo triggered a shockwave and bubble effect that tore the ship apart, the report said.
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here

The report also cites fractures on the main deck, statements from survivors and a sentry on a nearby island, and fractures and lacerations on the remains of deceased sailors.

Pieces of the torpedo "perfectly match" the schematics of a North Korean-made torpedo Pyongyang has tried to sell abroad, chief investigator Yoon Duk-yong said.

A serial number on one fragment is consistent with markings from a North Korean torpedo that Seoul obtained years earlier, Yoon said.

"The evidence points overwhelmingly to the conclusion that the torpedo was fired by a North Korean submarine," he said. "There is no other plausible explanation."

At Seoul's main train station, scores of people watched raptly as the investigator laid out the evidence against North Korea.

"I'm afraid," said Naima Vela, 26-year-old student from Italy. "I still have a month or two to stay in Seoul and I don't know if I should."

Near the Demilitarized Zone, tourists peered across the border into North Korea.

"As a mother of a boy who is serving his military duty right now, I don't want a war to break out," Jeon Bok-soon said in Paju as she looked across the border into North Korea.

"However if (North Korea) keeps mentioning war, I think we should also show our strong military power," she said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37244411/ns/world_news-asiapacific/

ugh. I agree that SK should show some balls...but they have everything to lose and little to gain...and NK...is nuts. how far do you go in talking smack? demanding action? taking action? wouldn't want to be SK.
 
I mean no disrespect to the crew of the sunken ship and their families, but I think the more pressing issue is NK's nuclear weapons program - SK and the USA should probably do something about that before it gains significant momentum ('cold fusion breakthroughs' aside). At the point at which NK have working nuclear missiles, the world's safety is put at risk as opposed to just SK's. Sanctions do not work, nor does public smack talk... military action is unfortunately the only foreseeable conclusion. China have said it's not in their interest to help NK, and with this attack acting as a catalyst, I would argue that now is the best chance SK/USA are ever going to get at a full on assault. Then again, I don't know if the US has the capacity to fight three wars at once (perhaps more if other shaky relations start to break down).
 
I NEED SCISSORS said:
I mean no disrespect to the crew of the sunken ship and their families, but I think the more pressing issue is NK's nuclear weapons program - SK and the USA should probably do something about that before it gains significant momentum ('cold fusion breakthroughs' aside). At the point at which NK have working nuclear missiles, the world's safety is put at risk as opposed to just SK's. Sanctions do not work, nor does public smack talk... military action is unfortunately the only foreseeable conclusion. China have said it's not in their interest to help NK, and with this attack acting as a catalyst, I would argue that now is the best chance SK/USA are ever going to get at a full on assault. Then again, I don't know if the US has the capacity to fight three wars at once (perhaps more if other shaky relations start to break down).
we do. our airforce and navy have had damn near nothing to do since Vietnam. maybe a few bombing runs and launching a few Tomahawk missiles. that's it. let them rain on NK's parade for a month.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
we do. our airforce and navy have had damn near nothing to do since Vietnam. maybe a few bombing runs and launching a few Tomahawk missiles. that's it. let them rain on NK's parade for a month.

Hell they could probably handle WW3 but we've blown so much money on Iraq it would start getting tough.
 
"If the (South Korean) enemies try to deal any retaliation or punishment or if they try sanctions or a strike on us ... we will answer to this with all-out war," Col. Pak In Ho of North Korea's navy

The fact that a nuclear-armed country has a Navy Col. designated to make threats of war shows you what a tinpot piece of shit that country is.

Internationally coordinated Tactical strikes, break its military's back and roll in with food and supplies from South Korean and Chinese borders, and end it before something worse happens.
 
OuterWorldVoice said:
The fact that a nuclear-armed country has a Navy Col. designated to make threats of war shows you what a tinpot piece of shit that country is.

Internationally coordinated Tactical strikes, break its military's back and roll in with food and supplies from South Korean and Chinese borders, and end it before something worse happens.

China wont help, I can only see them trying to keep the hungry north koreas from fleeing into China's border
 
They cut trade and won't allow NK ships to go through their waters either. Might not seem like much but it's going to hurt the already impoverished country.
 
This is akin to cornering an already famished and angry pestilent dog in a corner. It will have no option than attacking eventually.

Or some chinese dude will show up and say "here here, I will take care of this mutt, sorry it big your leg".
 
Norante said:
This is akin to cornering an already famished and angry pestilent dog in a corner. It will have no option than attacking eventually.

Or some chinese dude will show up and say "here here, I will take care of this mutt, sorry it big your leg".

Attacking is pretty much akin to suicide for NK. It has no real achievable goal outside of self destruct in such a situation.
 
toxicgonzo said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100524/ap_on_re_as/as_skorea_ship_sinks
From the article:



I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

Nothing.

One of the greatest tools of diplomacy for the US is to put a carrier battle group near someone's coast under the auspices of "naval exercises" to get a nation to calm the eff down.

US/ROK run exercises all the time, I believe this one is specifically sub hunting.
 
ChiTownBuffalo said:
Nothing.

One of the greatest tools of diplomacy for the US is to put a carrier battle group near someone's coast under the auspices of "naval exercises" to get a nation to calm the eff down.

US/ROK run exercises all the time, I believe this one is specifically sub hunting.

Still, any animal with it's back against the wall will bite.

This is the country that abducted hundreds of people, blew up planes, attacked SK multiple times,...and does batshit insane stuff with their own population in their gulag system.

It just takes one provocation and a wrong reaction to trigger a war... they don't even have to declare it as they are technically already at war.
 
So i wonder if they were to go to war if the people of NK would see us as liberators (lol?) or as evil people taking away their freedoms or something, basically i wonder how brain washed they are from there government controlled news.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom