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[JGS]

There were spoiler questions about Cobol(?) in the main thread so I had one, thought I would bring it here.

Does Cobol actually know Cobb's name?

A question came up about how Cobb and crew were still in trouble with them and I couldn't remeber whether they had aliases or not. I imagine not.

 

[BJK]

New to the dreamworld, just saw the film tonight ($5 movie night FTW).

Still hung up on why neither of the first two kicks (van corkscrew, fall off bridge) didn't bring JGL out of the hotel-level dream. I can buy that he needed to kick Cobb et al. out of the Arctic dream, and the timing needed to line up so that everyone else would be kicked up a level at a time. They showed that slight tilts in the chair would be enough for kick to work, they set up the 'inner ear' exception (the sense of falling waking you up is supposed to be involuntary, meaning you can't just "not want it to")....then it doesn't work like it was supposed to. Just bugged me.

We all know that Cobb's top won't stop spinning in the dream worlds...but why? Unless it's a perpetual motion machine, then physics should still apply...unless he changes the rules of the world, a la the folding cityscape. (But since the totem wasn't his...and he told the architect how it works...it would still keep spinning if Cobb, Ariadne, or Mal (if she were alive) didn't know they were dreaming.)

Confused about Limbo: When it was introduced, they made it sound like the dreamers who 'died' would stay there until the dream was over, living long enough to mind-fuck themselves. Yet both Ariadne and Fischer were able to leave limbo and return to the previous level of the dream?


Would have enjoyed the ending more if either Mal or the kids had turned out to be an idea planted in Cobb's head, instead of the intentionally-ambiguous punch out.

 

[Inferno313]

Hey folks, I picked up the Shooting Script today. It's a pretty neat book. One thing I've noticed so far in reading it is that that Nolan did consider the idea of why can't Cobb have his kids come to him. I don't remember this dialouge in the film so it must have been cut, but it's during the scene where Cobb first visits Miles in his classroom.

MILES:It'll take more than the occasional stuffed animal to convice those children they still have a father.

COBB: I know. I thought you could talk to Marie about bringing them on vacation. Somewhere I could meet-

MILES: Why would she listen to me?

COBB: You were married for twenty years.

MILES: She blames me as much as you.

COBB: Doesn't she understand that my kids need me?

MILES: Yes, she does. We all do. Go back and face the music, Dom. Explain what Mal did.

Cobb: Be realistic, Stephen. They'd never understand- they'd lock me up and throw away the key. Or worse.

MILES: You think what you're doing now is helping your case?

COBB: Lawyers don't pay for themselves this is what I have. This is what you taught me.

MILES: I never taught you to be a theif...

 

[Futureman]

I need a photo of the white van driving backwards off the bridge. Any help?

 

[DMczaf]

Hey folks, I picked up the Shooting Script today. It's a pretty neat book. One thing I've noticed so far in reading it is that that Nolan did consider the idea of why can't Cobb have his kids come to him. I don't remember this dialouge in the film so it must have been cut, but it's during the scene where Cobb first visits Miles in his classroom.

Was there anything from the ending that didn't make it?

 

[MMaRsu]

Hey folks, I picked up the Shooting Script today. It's a pretty neat book. One thing I've noticed so far in reading it is that that Nolan did consider the idea of why can't Cobb have his kids come to him. I don't remember this dialouge in the film so it must have been cut, but it's during the scene where Cobb first visits Miles in his classroom.

Must have been cut because honestly the dialogue in that scene isn't great.

 

[Inferno313]

Was there anything from the ending that didn't make it?

Hmm, like what exactly? It's just as ambiguous, in fact, the way it's worded it sounds more like he's in limbo, but that's just the wording I think..

James and Phillipa turn- see their Dad. He steps to the window, watching their bright faces shining as the run towards him...

Behind him, on the table, the spinning top is still spinning. And
we-

FADE OUT

CREDITS.

END.

 

[blame space]

IT WASN'T SUPPOSED TO WOBBLE AT ALL?

 

[Brazil]

IT WASN'T SUPPOSED TO WOBBLE AT ALL?

I think we all agree that the final product says more than the script.

 

[Inferno313]

I think we all agree that the final product says more than the script.

Ring > Script.

Also, this book has a Dream Machine manual... It's kinda hard to read, almost like it was scanned in IRL.. I still can't figure out how it works by plugging into their arms...

It also has Nolan's hand-drawn kick-chart. Interestingly enough, Eames and Arthur's names are on the opposite levels, and he scratched them out and wrote the names that you see in the film...

 

[ezekial45]

Yeah, if it was written like that, than it's more clear.

EDIT: But as everyone else said, the final product is what matters.

He's not in Limbo as far as i'm concerned.

 

[Angelus Errare]

So I finally saw this (about an hour ago) and I have a question, well more of an observation. Feel free to shoot this theory down as quickly as possible.

About Cobb's totem

Spoiler

Is his ring his totem and not that spinning top? Because he never wears his ring in the real world, only in the dreamscape. That's his way of figuring out what's real versus what's a dream. I started to notice it half way through the movie, in the last scene with his children, Cobbs isn't wearing his ring, but he had it on when he was in Limbo with Saito.

 

[sebajuNujabes]

New to the dreamworld, just saw the film tonight ($5 movie night FTW).

Still hung up on why neither of the first two kicks (van corkscrew, fall off bridge) didn't bring JGL out of the hotel-level dream. I can buy that he needed to kick Cobb et al. out of the Arctic dream, and the timing needed to line up so that everyone else would be kicked up a level at a time. They showed that slight tilts in the chair would be enough for kick to work, they set up the 'inner ear' exception (the sense of falling waking you up is supposed to be involuntary, meaning you can't just "not want it to")....then it doesn't work like it was supposed to. Just bugged me.

Kicks can be ignored, like when Cobb stayed in the dream at the beginning of the movie when the first architect slapped him.

We all know that Cobb's top won't stop spinning in the dream worlds...but why? Unless it's a perpetual motion machine, then physics should still apply...unless he changes the rules of the world, a la the folding cityscape. (But since the totem wasn't his...and he told the architect how it works...it would still keep spinning if Cobb, Ariadne, or Mal (if she were alive) didn't know they were dreaming.)

On some level, I think our minds use generalizations to associate characteristics with objects/subjects/people/etc. Fundamentally, Cobb's mind associates the top with spinning so that's why it never falls when he dreams. If someone else new it existed and they wanted to trick Dom, they would just make it so the top eventually falls. Ultimately, I think the top becomes useless because he practically shows his totem to everyone.

Confused about Limbo: When it was introduced, they made it sound like the dreamers who 'died' would stay there until the dream was over, living long enough to mind-fuck themselves. Yet both Ariadne and Fischer were able to leave limbo and return to the previous level of the dream?

Well you can leave Limbo anytime, really. The problem is that by the time you do leave you'll be a crazy vegetable or something. All Ariadne and Fischer needed was a synced up kick at that depth.

Would have enjoyed the ending more if either Mal or the kids had turned out to be an idea planted in Cobb's head, instead of the intentionally-ambiguous punch out.

With you on the fact that Inception should've ended more definitively. I get the fact that the ending is whatever you want to believe and that all the nagging doubts are the product of Nolan's audience inception, but it reeks of cinema wankery. You win this time Nolan.

 

[ezekial45]

Kicks can be ignored, like when Cobb stayed in the dream at the beginning of the movie when the first architect slapped him.

Thats not true. In the manual for the PASIV device, Cobb being thrown was an effect of Nash (the architect) slapping him. He didn't ignore it, he didn't even know it was coming. It was an effect of the upper level (like the rain, gravity shifts, etc) coming into the level below.

Still hung up on why neither of the first two kicks (van corkscrew, fall off bridge) didn't bring JGL out of the hotel-level dream. I can buy that he needed to kick Cobb et al. out of the Arctic dream, and the timing needed to line up so that everyone else would be kicked up a level at a time. They showed that slight tilts in the chair would be enough for kick to work, they set up the 'inner ear' exception (the sense of falling waking you up is supposed to be involuntary, meaning you can't just "not want it to")....then it doesn't work like it was supposed to. Just bugged me.

I think they meant a more severe sense of falling or tipping. When they tested it out, they actually tipped the chair over to wake Arthur up. In the dream, the seats in the van were secure and they all had seat belts in. I know it may be a little far-fetched, but it works for me.

If you don't buy that, then you could say the movie just took liberties with the rules for the sake of the story or call it a plot hole. It happens.

Confused about Limbo: When it was introduced, they made it sound like the dreamers who 'died' would stay there until the dream was over, living long enough to mind-fuck themselves. Yet both Ariadne and Fischer were able to leave limbo and return to the previous level of the dream?

Ariadne and Fischer were able to return to the previous level because they kicked themselves out Limbo (both by falling) and had a kick on the hospital level waiting for them (Defibrillator for Fischer and floor collapsing for Aridane).

 

[Quincey]

When Cobb stays in Limbo to look for Saito does he just get up from his and Mal's Penthouse and go searching for Saito. How Long does it take for him to find Saito? Also why does he wash up on the shore?

 

[JGS]

When Cobb stays in Limbo to look for Saito does he just get up from his and Mal's Penthouse and go searching for Saito. How Long does it take for him to find Saito? Also why does he wash up on the shore?

It's hard to say how long, but he was there for our time equivalent of the travel time on the plane (I can't remeber now).

Saito could have aged himself to what he thought if himself or he could have aged naturally as he was there longer than Cobb. Saito was there long enough to go bonkers.

I was under the impression that he washed up to shore because that was the only way to reach Saito's little section of Limbo that he carved out.

My impression was that it was pretty close since there was no reason for Saito to travel very far, since he was the only one there.

 

[Exclamation-One]

Something I want to point out to people - Cobb also forgot he was dreaming.

That's why he was scarfing down the rice. If you are a professional dream-dude, you don't eat food in a dream.

It's clear that Cobb and Saito both forgot, but once reunited they were able to get themselves out of Limbo.

 

[Rentahamster]

So I'm not sure about this -

How did the rest of the team wake up from Yusuf's dream back into reality? You didn't see them get a kick in reality, so did they ride out the timer?

That means that they spent a week in level 1? If so, how could they survive Fischer's militarized projections who were shooting at them the whole time? Didn't Cobb explicitly say that it was impossible to survive a week that way?

Or is it just that after Fischer and "Browning" (Eames) escape from the sinking van, Fischer is no longer in danger, thinks he is in reality again, and therefore his subconscious is no longer on the offensive.

 

[Zoe]

Or is it just that after Fischer and "Browning" (Eames) escape from the sinking van, Fischer is no longer in danger, thinks he is in reality again, and therefore his subconscious is no longer on the offensive.

Yes. And they rode out the week.

 

[Hawkian]

How did the rest of the team wake up from Yusuf's dream back into reality? You didn't see them get a kick in reality, so did they ride out the timer?

Yes. And they rode out the week.

Correct. They simply waited out the remainder of the time on that level, hiding from Fischer and "Browning" (Eames). Due to the successful Mr. Charles gambit and Fischer's catharsis, his subconscious was no longer militarized, so it just became a waiting game.

 

[Rentahamster]

Correct. They simply waited out the remainder of the time on that level, hiding from Fischer and "Browning" (Eames). Due to the successful Mr. Charles gambit and Fischer's catharsis, his subconscious was no longer militarized, so it just became a waiting game.

Heh, that must have been a lot of work for Eames to keep up his Browning persona for a whole week.

Also, there should have been a Browning projection running around in level 1 too, right? I wonder how they managed to keep the projection away - or, I guess the level one Browning projection would just fit to conform with what Fischer thinks Browning is supposed to have been anyway, so any further effort from Eames would no longer be required.

 

[Hawkian]

Also, there should have been a Browning projection running around in level 1 too, right? I wonder how they managed to keep the projection away - or, I guess the level one Browning projection would just fit to conform with what Fischer thinks Browning is supposed to have been anyway, so any further effort from Eames would no longer be required.

That's a good point. That would make a good mini-comic story, it could be pretty humorous :lol

 

[JGS]

I'm having a hard time believing they stayed there for 6 days.

I keep trying to remember the conversation they had about leaving early when Saito got shot. I need to rewatch this tomorrow.

 

[Sibylus]

Just saw it today, loved it

Whether the final scene is a dream or not, I think that's ultimately irrelevant in the light of Cobb's outlook. Every time he tested his totem previously, he watched it intently to learn the outcome. When he does it for the last time, he leaves and pays no attention to it. He doesn't care about what the final outcome of this test is, he's finally at peace with his past.