Developing AAA titles is very time consuming and on more advanced tech the dev times between games will get even longer. It's understandable why the output is lower this gen compared to last gen.
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Square Enix's CEO: We Must Reform With Urgency, explains his plan
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Developing AAA titles is very time consuming and on more advanced tech the dev times between games will get even longer. It's understandable why the output is lower this gen compared to last gen.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
You see, I was in your camp, saying "yea, there should be no reason why FFXV can't release holiday 2014 for Japan, and then 2015 for NA/EU" but then TGS rolled around, which was the date we were supposed to receive updates, and they showed us 2 seconds of new footage from the same area.
I no longer have confidence in anything sooner than 2015 release for Japan. I just can't see them pulling their act together if they couldn't even plan as far ahead as TGS. And if that's the case, I would not expect KH3 until 2016 or 2017.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
So freaking sad. They had an amazing team with something truly special going on. How they let the culture that they established within their company completely fall apart is beyond me.
WHY DO YOU HAVE TO TWIST THE KNIFE? (T__T)
I sulk everytime we hear a studio talk like this. It always means more mobile/social, less high-quality games with compelling stories and characters 
Really looking forward to the mobile crash. Sooner rather than later, please.
Square needs to look at the library of games that has carried it this far. The demand for those games hasn't gone away, they just stopped committing themselves to making them. I'm really looking forward to Bravely Default here in the west, but we need more like it and fewer games like the butchering of Theatrythm on iOS and those absolutely hideous FF 'remakes' on mobile platforms.
Really looking forward to the mobile crash. Sooner rather than later, please.Square needs to look at the library of games that has carried it this far. The demand for those games hasn't gone away, they just stopped committing themselves to making them. I'm really looking forward to Bravely Default here in the west, but we need more like it and fewer games like the butchering of Theatrythm on iOS and those absolutely hideous FF 'remakes' on mobile platforms.
HD Development is hard!
You're not gonna be able to push out a JRPG with the same amount of content any of those titles had with the same sales, in today's graphics, sadly.
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
Just release Drakengard 3 in the west and you are cool with me
You will. I think that much is guaranteed. There will be FF XV-2 and probably even FF XV-3. We are way past the times where we got 3 mainline FF games per gen. Making a game from scratch is too expensive and you cannot sell DLCs no matter how big at full retail price. Best case scenario we will get FF XVI near the end of this upcoming gen.
Where do you base that ? How would a game with nothing more that recycled assets like XIII-2 sell more ?
You will. I think that much is guaranteed. There will be FF XV-2 and probably even FF XV-3. We are way past the times where we got 3 mainline FF games per gen. Making a game from scratch is too expensive and you cannot sell DLCs no matter how big at full retail price. Best case scenario we will get FF XVI near the end of this upcoming gen.
Where do you base that ? How would a game with nothing more that recycled assets like XIII-2 sell more ?
TheJollyCorner
Member
they also had to muck with the whole White Engine/Crystal Tools fiasco back in 2006/2007. They showed concept demos/CGI based on games to be designed on a proprietary engine that wasn't even done yet.
I might be wrong, but wasn't White Engine initially designed with the original power-bloated PS3 design in mind (ala what Kojima did with the first MGS4 in-game trailer)? Then they got the actual PS3 specs, 360 started gaining worldwide market share, the Wii was dominating, and White Engine was altered to Crystal Tools so it could be more adaptive to multiplatforms... right?
All of that mess (combined with poor management) really hurt them- possibly to the point where we could trace an eventual company downfall on it. The Spirits Within might finally be off the hook as far as the blunder that 'killed Square' now. :{
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Did Bravery Default, The World Ends With You, and Type-0 just will themselves out of the ether? They clearly have talented people left at SE, they're just not given priority, and thus rarely get a their big shot often.
I wouldn't overly worry about the thing they need to finance their new direction quite yet.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Dat sustainable AAA development.
Red Mage
Member
So, SE just announced they're committing Seppuku?
This. Expansion packs don't require nearly as much effort as a brand new game, and extend the life of the game proper.
Outside of Eidios, whose games I don't play/care for, name one?
This. Expansion packs don't require nearly as much effort as a brand new game, and extend the life of the game proper.
Outside of Eidios, whose games I don't play/care for, name one?
Haha, yeah I noticed that... I was at the Burning Wall and saw an enemy that looked straight out of FF12... sure enough!
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Would we even get it if it happened? DQVII on 3DS seems to be stuck in Type-0 land.
I hope Bravely Default survives through all of this (as a non-moneygrab title). I was really glad when SE announced a new RPG IP that looks like a solid effort. Would be a shame if it ends up being cancelled or moved in an undesirable direction, despite good sales and great quality.
Apart of that, I'm interested to see the direction SE will develop in the next few years. It's kind of ironic that he speaks of a market that changes every three months -- and yet, a new Final Fantasy game takes at least 3 years to develop. I wonder how they plan to solve that dilemma. Sounds like they located a problem, but I'm not sure if they've got a solution for what is (or has been?) their most important IP.
Which really is the reason why the current way doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't like the direction they seem to take, but it's easily understandable why they chose it. The Final Fantasy games don't sell better than 10 or 15 years ago -- and yet they are much more expensive to develop and need a lot more time in development. How are you supposed to sustain your business that way? Not to mention that you normally want your business to grow and not just to sustain itself...
Apart of that, I'm interested to see the direction SE will develop in the next few years. It's kind of ironic that he speaks of a market that changes every three months -- and yet, a new Final Fantasy game takes at least 3 years to develop. I wonder how they plan to solve that dilemma. Sounds like they located a problem, but I'm not sure if they've got a solution for what is (or has been?) their most important IP.
Which really is the reason why the current way doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't like the direction they seem to take, but it's easily understandable why they chose it. The Final Fantasy games don't sell better than 10 or 15 years ago -- and yet they are much more expensive to develop and need a lot more time in development. How are you supposed to sustain your business that way? Not to mention that you normally want your business to grow and not just to sustain itself...
Bravely Default is contracted out to Silicon Studio, and they've been given the greenlight for a sequel.
TWEWY is from Nomura, and he does whatever he wants.
Type-0 is from Tabata, and he's adamant about wanting to work on portable devices. I had no idea until a recent USGamer interview where he got into explaining what interests him in game design. He prefers making stuff like Agito on mobile, and he said the choice is his.
They are definitely all talented. SQEX doesn't seem to be dictating to them too much though honestly from what I can tell. If anything, they've been too lenient with Nomura, but I think XIV 1.0 can be blamed for a lot of that.
Yes that's definitely a key part.
Most companies do this with traditional sequels, but the whole "Each FF is a new universe" thing made that harder.
Now we get direct sequels or at least things close enough that you can reuse a lot.
They have to do this. Just look at Assassin's Creed.
AC 1
AC 2
AC 2-2
AC 2-3
AC 3
AC 4
That's one generation. And people think one trilogy for SQEX is pushing it? Everyone else is doing the same thing.
Aquamarine
Member
Capcom recently gave us a window of insight into the costs of developing their major games:
Average development cost for major Capcom games:
PS1 games: $5.13 million
PS2 games: $10.27 million
PS3 games: $20.53 million
The baseline standards for an AAA game have risen dramatically throughout each consecutive generation.
What they could do is produce 2D RPGs on handhelds or mobile.
But they can't just pump out the same amount of the same type of console games with a much improved level of graphical fidelity. Something has to give.
For Square Enix, that "something" led to a truncated major-game release schedule and a focus on cheap mobile games.
They also remade DQM1, my first ever JRPG, that's like a dream come true, and they refuse to give it me.
bigmit3737
Member
I think Square and Capcom are due for some rough times. I don't seem them being able to high budget games for too long.
A lot of people are tired of Ubisoft's milking too.
Red Mage
Member
I wouldn't mind if they used the same engine. Didn't Parasite Eve and FFVIII use the same engine?
SteveWinwood
Member
At this point I really don't care about square enix. The sad part will be them being down the eidos, the good part of their company.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Maybe they can spread that dragon quest love to other gaming platforms? It's not like those games have any trouble selling.
So sad to look at, especially the one they are proud of, the HQ in Tokyo.
The sales for AC keep growing though, if I'm not mistaken, and people are still hyping up AC 4 which has all the reused boat combat from 3. They did another direct sequel with reused assets for Splinter Cell Blacklist.
Even Watch Dogs looks like it uses some elements from AC.
And now Ubisoft is trying out cheaper 2D digital games like Child of Light.
This is what SQEX needs to be doing. A few IPs with direct sequels reusing assets, and some more affordable, experimental digital releases on console along with their mobile and MMO stuff.
That's what Gust did though. (Not at "AAA" level graphically, but easily "much improved")
bigmit3737
Member
But games are being sold. I think AC4 will do just fine.
AC1,AC2 and AC2 brotherhood are good for me.
Never finish Revolution. 3 is not that good.
AC3 shipped over 12.5 million copies and obviously CoD has been doing around 20-25 million a year so it's kind of hard to argue too much against them.
Even if we take traditional series that get an entry ever two years, we still have massive art asset reuse.
To me the bigger issue is that Square Enix's direct sequels are often much lower effort than what you expect out of a sequel from just about every other publisher.
McDonald's!
This is terrible news, but it's not like I've had much interest in SE pretty much since the merger.
Square-Enix doesn't have anything on that scale. Most companies don't.
FWIW: Accountants tend to be pretty damn useful.
SteveWinwood
Member
Didn't sales fall for ac 2-2 and 2-3? Pretty sure that's why 4 got the number treatment instead of it being 3-2.
BlazeBreak
Member
Why must they keep Hiroyuki Ito locked in a cubicle in some dark corner of the office? ;_;
I think part of the issue is simply that Squeenix now thinks it has to reinvent the wheel and turn the entire genre upside-down with every single game. Look at FFVII, VIII, and IX. They're all built upon the same presentation. IX, which was developed at least partly in tandem with VIII, was probably made on a lot of the same tech.
Nowadays, it's even more important to be able to do that, yet Squeenix has gotten away from it. Ideally, they should be able to get an engine together, create a game, and then be able to deliver another NEW game while still utilizing the same (perhaps enhanced) engine.
vinnygambini
Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
I don't know if either Nirolak or Kagari would be able to answer or anyone for that matter, how is the Dragon Quest IP managed? If I am correct, it's creator and his production team, Armor Project, have full control over its content. Without his blessing, Square Enix would not be able to develop Dragon Quest games as Enix signed a contract prior to the merging that gives full authority to Yūji Horii am I correct?
As a side note, there have been many questionable actions done by Square Enix over the years, acquiring Taito among many others, however I have to say that acquiring Eidos was the best business decision that Square Enix has ever done. Without them, I am not sure Square Enix would have managed to survive another generation.
As a side note, there have been many questionable actions done by Square Enix over the years, acquiring Taito among many others, however I have to say that acquiring Eidos was the best business decision that Square Enix has ever done. Without them, I am not sure Square Enix would have managed to survive another generation.
we.are.the.armada
Member
Would UNDERSTANDAJA be more powerful of a spell than UNDERSTANDAGA?
KH3 won't even go into full scale development unless XV is completed. Didn't SE issue this statement themselves ?
The game's chances of being stuck in digital limbo are super high.
HolyBaikal
Banned
Not evil. That game deserves every remake and port it has ever gotten.
Also, one of the only times I'll say I want a realistic remake of something.
I'm someone generally in love with cuteness, and love the "chibi" or whatever artstyle of the remake of Final Fantasy IV. But it has left me wanting.
Final Fantasy IV is one of the few times in life I am not entirely satisfied with something getting a cutesy makeover. The world of Final Fantasy IV is such a deep and mysterious fantasy setting. Which is plenty cute without cute-ifying everything. And really is something I wish could get a full high definition remake, a realistic artstyle and in a serious fashion. I want to see the forests and the lava, Rydia's summons, Kain and Cecil's armor.
The underworld would look so great in high defition. And so would the Tower of Babil. And so would the Tower of Zot. And so would Mysidia. And so would the moon. And so would Cecil's dark knight armor, and so would Cecil's paladin armor. And so would Kain's dragoon armor. And so would the Magus Sisters. And so would every single one of Rydia's summons. And so would the entire game. Forget a Final Fantasy VII HD remake, I'd like Final Fantasy IV. Eh, I guess we're pretty alone in wanting that, though. Perhaps you're right.
I can't believe all that came out of my mouth. Cuteness is the only aesthetic I care about and I hate gritty realism. And here I am wanting a gritty realistic remake for Final Fantasy IV. Something is wrong with me. Well, "gritty realistic" is a bit much to say and hyperbole. More or less I'd like a Final Fantasy IV remake that looks like Final Fantasy XIV. Still, I can't believe I'm not satisfied by a chibi artstyle game, knowing what I like. Final Fantasy IV is a rich fantasy setting that deserves a rich fantasy makeover.
Can't speak on LR until I play it, but I didn't find myself thinking XIII-2 was in any way lesser of an effort than other games I've played. I played it quite a bit. LR is looking to be pretty out there, I don't think anyone can make the case that they aren't putting in effort.
Aquamarine
Member
It's funny you say that, because the president / CEO of Square Enix (Yousuke Matsuda) actually used to be the CFO (lead accountant / in charge of the money) for the company for nearly a decade.
I strongly disagree on that. XIII might not be a better game, but it's of much greater scope, and much higher production standards.
BabySlayer
Banned
Just make a badass remake of FF7, seriously just do it already
Meccanical
Member
The future is bright.
More like dont touch FFVII. They will fuck it up for sure.
They will start leaving the company.SE surely has its own share of underutilized talent.Just give them sometime and many of them are sure to leave out of frustration.