SSX Community Demo - Archived, Psymon Revealed, Demo Coming [Zoe Revealed]

#51
SolidSnakex said:
That's only supposed to happen on that one deadly descent. I still don't like it since it seems very easy to lose sight of where you're.
still, I'd rather just have a more removed behind-the-character camera, so you can still see where you're going, and see the avalanche at the same time
 
#52
legbone said:
Really? Please enlighten me. I haven't heard any hands on impressions.
I remember hearing some bad stuff on the E3 podcasts of either GiantBomb and/or Weekend Confirmed. People saying that it just felt "off" and the game didn't show well in general.

Basically the kind of stuff that when you've followed games for long enough, you know it's not a good sign.
 
#53
BruiserBear said:
I remember hearing some bad stuff on the E3 podcasts of either GiantBomb and/or Weekend Confirmed. People saying that it just felt "off" and the game didn't show well in general.

Basically the kind of stuff that when you've followed games for long enough, you know it's not a good sign.
Eh. It's still early. I wouldn't be real worried.
 
#54
At the same time a lot of press gave the game awards or just generally gave positive opinions on the game... Two websites not liking it doesn't mean anything.
 
#55
BruiserBear said:
I remember hearing some bad stuff on the E3 podcasts of either GiantBomb and/or Weekend Confirmed. People saying that it just felt "off" and the game didn't show well in general.

Basically the kind of stuff that when you've followed games for long enough, you know it's not a good sign.
I don't think I would worry about it much. With the amount of time they have left it should be polished up.

Plus, I would imagine with the new Skate-like controls instituted for parts that it will take bit to get used to.

I'm staying optimistic though, as SSX is the last bastion of these type of eXtreme games we are going to get I think.
 

kenta

Has no PEINS
#56
BruiserBear said:
I remember hearing some bad stuff on the E3 podcasts of either GiantBomb and/or Weekend Confirmed. People saying that it just felt "off" and the game didn't show well in general.

Basically the kind of stuff that when you've followed games for long enough, you know it's not a good sign.
I know what you're talking about, it was Skip saying the pause after landing a big trick felt weird. There was a comment on the last page that indicated they might be removing that (and I'd welcome that removal), but I'm pretty sure the rest of the SSX discussion was positive outside of that comment

But go watch the videos for yourself, dude, it looks legit
 
#57
kenta said:
I know what you're talking about, it was Skip saying the pause after landing a big trick felt weird. There was a comment on the last page that indicated they might be removing that (and I'd welcome that removal), but I'm pretty sure the rest of the SSX discussion was positive outside of that comment

But go watch the videos for yourself, dude, it looks legit
They're 'fixing' (removing) that pause live for the fans attending the event. Cool stuff.
 
#58
kenta said:
I know what you're talking about, it was Skip saying the pause after landing a big trick felt weird. There was a comment on the last page that indicated they might be removing that (and I'd welcome that removal), but I'm pretty sure the rest of the SSX discussion was positive outside of that comment

But go watch the videos for yourself, dude, it looks legit
Todd said that the pause was something that they put in at the last second when making the E3 demo. He said that they've heard people loud and clear about not liking it and that they agree about it breaking up the flow. He also said that they'd probably be able to disable it for those that are there playing it today.
 
#59
I think you're citing me as the skeptical voice (probably both on Bombcast & WC). I still have high hopes for the game, and the team seems super open to feedback even at this point. even though the E3 demo looked rough to me, I still believe. and I'm very much looking forward to more coming out of gamescom.
 
#60
Yeah it was a very rough build I agree. Clearly placeholder UI during gameplay, graphics are still lacking lots of details, etc. But as a base it looked like it had potential.
 

kenta

Has no PEINS
#61
skip said:
I think you're citing me as the skeptical voice (probably both on Bombcast & WC). I still have high hopes for the game, and the team seems super open to feedback even at this point. even though the E3 demo looked rough to me, I still believe. and I'm very much looking forward to more coming out of gamescom.
I still haven't caught up on the E3 Bombcasts so pardon if this is redundant, but can you elaborate on what felt rough? The lack of HUD? Was the framerate choppy? Missing sounds?

I just want to correlate what we've seen in the videos with what you saw at the show, because nearly everything I've seen since they ditched the subtitle has been exactly what I've wanted to see.

The last time I posted about SSX I even made mention of hoping Psymon was in it, and here he is. It's like I'm 2 steps away from being credited as creative director
 
#62
kenta said:
I still haven't caught up on the E3 Bombcasts so pardon if this is redundant, but can you elaborate on what felt rough? The lack of HUD? Was the framerate choppy? Missing sounds?

I just want to correlate what we've seen in the videos with what you saw at the show, because nearly everything I've seen since they ditched the subtitle has been exactly what I've wanted to see.

The last time I posted about SSX I even made mention of hoping Psymon was in it, and here he is. It's like I'm 2 steps away from being credited as creative director
yeah, framerate was choppy and camera was wonky, frequently not showing me the best downhill perspective. signs of things that are definitely fixable with the time they have.

course design on the one run we played seemed good, though, and tricks/speed/big air all felt "right", outside of the pause thing which is already being looked at. I'm not at all worried about the SSX core. still have *some* reservations on the reversed perspective of avalanches, though. I get that it's better/cooler to see the snow coming at you, but you kind of give up your sightlines in exchange.
 
#63
flyinpiranha said:
I don't think I would worry about it much. With the amount of time they have left it should be polished up.

Plus, I would imagine with the new Skate-like controls instituted for parts that it will take bit to get used to.

I'm staying optimistic though, as SSX is the last bastion of these type of eXtreme games we are going to get I think.
I'm not worried because of how much time is left before it goes gold. I'm worried because at every step of the way so far, the developers of this game have shown a lack of understanding of what made the previous SSX games so awesome. Enough red flags like that and I lose all faith that these guys know what they are doing. I've seen this story enough times to know how it usually ends.


I really hope to be pleasantly surprised, but just the fact that they decided the trick system needs to be on the right analog stick is just a huge turnoff to me. SSX fans were never complaining that the trick system needed to be on the right stick, and yet these assholes decide that's one of the first things they're going to do. smh
 
#64
so far all the characters announced are winners. the last one that i can think of (that i care about) is zoe.
BruiserBear said:
I'm not worried because of how much time is left before it goes gold. I'm worried because at every step of the way so far, the developers of this game have shown a lack of understanding of what made the previous SSX games so awesome. Enough red flags like that and I lose all faith that these guys know what they are doing. I've seen this story before, and I know how it ends.


I really hope to be pleasantly surprised, but just the fact that they decided the trick system needs to be on the right analog stick is just a huge turnoff to me. SSX fans were never complaining that the trick system needed to be on the right stick, and yet these assholes decide that's one of the first things they're going to do. smh
you can use the old control scheme in this game.
 
#65
btkadams said:
you can use the old control scheme in this game.
But you're kind of missing my point. They can keep popping up and addressing complaints throughout the process, but that doesn't convince me they knew what they were doing in the first place. For me, the fact that they chose to change the trick system from the beginning raises doubts about their ability to deliver something special.

I'm not convinced this game is going to be a terrible snowboarding game. I'm quite confident it will turn out competent enough. But the original SSX games were not merely competent. They were exceptional, particularly the 2nd and 3rd games.

IMO it's that extra 10% that makes a game special. Lots of games come along and deliver a solid foundation of a game, but it's that extra 10% that the special dev teams add that makes for an amazing experience. It seems to me like this SSX team is having a hard time just getting the basics down, which leaves me little confidence they're going to deliver that extra 10% that will make it special. Sorry for going all philosophical, but that's how I see game development in a nutshell.
 
#66
BruiserBear, what worked for a game in 2001 may not necessarily be the best choice for a game in 2011. Games have changed, control schemes have changed, the audience has changed.

Personally I would try not to get hung up over details like the tricks being on the right stick, and instead try to be happy you're getting an SSX game at all.
 
#67
They do seem to understand what made SSX great. I would suggest you hear Todd Batty talking about the game by himself and not on interviews, like today. He seems prety honest and upfront about development and generally comes across as not only a great guy, but as a SSX fan too, and knowing pretty well what we want. He says a lot of interesting points, albeit being minor points, they give the impression they know what they're doing.

I got these for you:






I should've resized them maybe... But I wanted to leave them big so you could read everything, as quality is as you see. I gotta leave home now so maybe I'll change them later. Sorry!
 
#69
BruiserBear said:
But you're kind of missing my point. They can keep popping up and addressing complaints throughout the process, but that doesn't convince me they knew what they were doing in the first place. For me, the fact that they chose to change the trick system from the beginning raises doubts about their ability to deliver something special.

I'm not convinced this game is going to be a terrible snowboarding game. I'm quite confident it will turn out competent enough. But the original SSX games were not merely competent. They were exceptional, particularly the 2nd and 3rd games.

IMO it's that extra 10% that makes a game special. Lots of games come along and deliver a solid foundation of a game, but it's that extra 10% that the special dev teams add that makes for an amazing experience. It seems to me like this SSX team is having a hard time just getting the basics down, which leaves me little confidence they're going to deliver that extra 10% that will make it special. Sorry for going all philosophical, but that's how I see game development in a nutshell.

And Coolboarders 2 was "epic and special" before SSX. Things change, I really think you should be a bit more optimistic especially with a group of developers that seems to be keeping a constant dialogue open with the fans that made the series in the first place.

But again, it's your opinion and you're more than welcome to it. But after watching that live stream I am extremely more excited about this than I was at 10:59 AM this morning.
 
#71
Fuck me. I've said it previously, but:

This seems like an incredible smart updating to the franchise. It's not just the same thing again, but something that's new whilst still feeling (at least by the look of it) like SSX. Assuming final quality is high, this is how series reboots/returns should be done.
 
#72
I walked away from that presentation impressed. Thoughts...

The Good:

-It's clear they're pulling a lot of their source material from Tricky and 3. Those being the two best games in the series, I have no complaints.

-The fact that custom soundtracks will be given the full ambient/remixed treatment is incredible. I can't think of any better game to do this with. Ripping down Everest with some ambient/remixed DJ Shadow will be glorious.

-The visuals of the mountains look largely intact and inspired. There's still the marked arrows on jumps, the colorful art pieces, the misty look from the snow spray, etc.

-And speaking of the mountains, the track designs pleasantly reminded me of SSX3's multi-layered runs and paths. For a while I was seriously dreading that tracks would only have the odd fork or two.

-So glad they axed the create-a-character bullshit from On Tour.


The Bad:

-I'm still not sold on the Survival. It looked a tad bit fun, but I can't see it being an event I'd willingly replay after getting the gold medal for it. The guy said there's only nine of these events out of all the different mountain runs, though, so that dulls the sting a little.


The Iffy:

-I'm still a tad confused as the multiple choices of Boosts. It looked like there are different kinds to choose from. Awaits to be seen how differently they all work.

-Still unsure how wacky they're going to let us get with character gear. At E3 the presenter said different gear gives different stat boosts, as opposed to just stat-boosting your character with points (SSX3). I was hoping for a simple aesthetic change. Time will tell on this one though.



Overall I'm eager to try a demo, when they get around to it.
 
#74
disappeared said:
-The fact that custom soundtracks will be given the full ambient/remixed treatment is incredible. I can't think of any better game to do this with. Ripping down Everest with some ambient/remixed DJ Shadow will be glorious.
I get the feeling you're not using the term you intended to here.
 
#77
SolidSnakex said:
He's right. Todd mentioned that you'll be able rip your own music and they'll use the games remix system just like the songs in the game.
Huh, I got from it that you couldn't because of all the remixing they're doing to their own tracks to make it work. Guess I was wrong!

... and never have I been more happy for being mistaken! Got a load of fat electric beats I cannot wait to slam down in this bitch.
 
#78
Suairyu said:
Huh, I got from it that you couldn't because of all the remixing they're doing to their own tracks to make it work. Guess I was wrong!

... and never have I been more happy for being mistaken! Got a load of fat electric beats I cannot wait to slam down in this bitch.
It seriously blows open the doors to how we can jam going downhill.

On that note... If one were so inclined, they could procure the old Rasmus and Mix Master Mike tracks from the first game and go to town.
 
#79
Suairyu said:
Huh, I got from it that you couldn't because of all the remixing they're doing to their own tracks to make it work. Guess I was wrong!
During this community event he said that they've been improving their remix system over the years so that it would work with custom soundtracks. Of course it's quite possible that the ingame tracks will take advantage of it better, but it's still going to work with the custom soundtrack.
 
#80
disappeared said:
It seriously blows open the doors to how we can jam going downhill.

On that note... If one were so inclined, they could procure the old Rasmus and Mix Master Mike tracks from the first game and go to town.
Oh, so true... It would really depend on oh well it remixes, and if somehow they can remove elements and layers from custom music.

Edit: Also Soultron, have you met with gondee or something? Since you mentioned writing something, which is common for fans to do in other EA Sports titles after Community Events, I'd love if he would do one as well, but I'm afraid he may not think about it. Just drop him a hint that he can come up with something and ask the CM for clearance. I'll love to hear impressions from both of you.
 
#83
Will this SSX be released under the EA Sport Big label? Not that the label means much now but back when it was new on the ps2 and EA were trying some different things I thought most of them were great, just over the top fun. Maybe it was just me.
 
#85
V_Ben said:
That dynamic remix thing sounds super cool. Gonna chuck some Mozart in there, see what happens! :D
Add the rewind feature in there while you're remixing your own music by playing SSX. Could be really neat!

Write up is finished. I'm just waiting for approval. I'm not a journalist :)lol) so I'm not sure about how I'm to deal with the press embargo over my head at the moment, so bare with me. I hope what I've written gives you a better perspective than the many articles that have been written so far. They, for some reason, really don't do the game justice. It's weird saying that, but, once again, I hope my perspective on things gives you some stuff you haven't read yet.

Don't mean to be a total dicktease, but I really can't wait for you guys to see what I've been lucky enough to see today.

I'm an unapologetic SSX fan for sure, but I've maintained a realistic stance in saying, "wait for gameplay, wait for gameplay!" It's hard to really describe, since I don't really need to be sold on the game in the first place because I already have so much faith in this team, but after seeing the game today and hearing the team talk candidly about it, my hype has skyrocketed. I've never been less worried about this game. The team, simply put, gets SSX.
 
#88
-bakalhau- said:
Demo confirmed for pre release. Woo!

Edit: One of the (lucky) guys there will take a look at the framerate, I'm hoping among all the stuff he wants to look at/ask he won't forget to takea look while he plays at how fluid the game is.
Framerate doesn't matter this early on in development, since nothing is neither finalized nor optimized.
 
#89
Okay, so I'm skipped out on going to the bar because I wanted to represent you GAFfers right and give you some updates.

I'll break things down according to the specific focus of each and every session and presentation we went to yesterday. We will be playing the game today, just to get that out of the way.

Also, please take into account that I am contractually obligated by an NDA not to tell you certain things. (But I will tell you that the juicy bits are really, really exciting. I can't wait for you guys to see/hear some of the stuff we did.) Also, the game is still in pre-alpha, which means stuff I mention here is NOT FINAL. Annnnd, finally, I'm a going from memory here since I was just too excited to be bothered writing anything down.

Post-USTREAM Q+A: Todd and Connor (both of whom you saw on the USTREAM event) both sat down with all of us and answered some of our own questions.
While I can't say what we talked about (but I will say that it was exciting), just hearing Todd and Connor speak candidly about the game, they get it. They've poured two years so far in getting the project greenlit and off the ground, and are spending another 7 months minimum to turn this into an experience you can all be proud of as a series fan. They did their research. They have series vets and team leads returning for this game. They've created some monumental leaps forward in physics simulation too. You can hear they, like all of the team I spoke with today, have a genuine passion for this series. Todd himself cited a love for the golden age of Tony Hawk and big tricks, stuff like that.

Physics Demonstration: This is the area that really sold me on the game. SSX has evolved and the impressive physics engine is my personal selling point. We sat with some of the physics tools leads as Connor demoed an early build for the game, dating back almost 2 years. We listened as they explained they wanted to keep the spirit of the game very much alive, but had a lot of processing power that could be made to make the physics better and more believable.

We then watched a more current build of the game demoed. How you could ride on anything you could see. You could flip yourselves out of crevasses and onto the opposite upper ridge if you had enough momentum. How, in the current build, ice and rock affected your rider's handling. We listened as they explained the painstaking process of completing technical feats other teams within EA balked at -- like grinding anything with a raised edge. (Collision detection is a bitch, yo!) This doesn't sound impressive until you see it and have it explained -- and see the older build (with physics representative of the PS2-era games) running a few feet away. The difference is night and day. Just looking at how the character animates as they carve (with a real centre of mass, centre of gravity, linear momentum, angular momentum, etc.) compared to the older characters who simply pivoted at their hips is stunning. Well, again, I'm pretty psyched about all of this because I can appreciate how much of a technical beast this must've been to slay, so I was blown away.

Then there's the concept of snow that realistically deforms and causes avalanches of differing scales -- all in concert with how the physics simulation receives feedback from the player. Land really hard on an area of loose snow and it is displaced and gravity takes care of the rest. We watched as Connor explained that, even in prototyping, the team was experiencing awesome things like having to jump over avalanches, or in some extreme cases -- ride underneath them through crevasses and ridges as they cut across overhead. Connor stressed he doesn't want SSX to be a scripted experience wherein, "cool things always happen at the same points," and that, "cool things might happen," when and if the player puts themselves in the right situation. After watching the demonstration, I'm very sold on that mantra. Again, I can't wait until you get to see this yourself.

I personally want to give the physics engineers a huge amount of props. What they've done is a huge technical accomplishment.

Animation: The first thing that was awesome was the animator's desk was loaded with skateboard gear (both a longboard and a traditional skateboard) and shows that the right people are working on the right stuff. The animations he showed us were rich with personal style. For instance, a tucked knee instead of just a standard grab adds a longboard/surfing flair to a trick that would've came out slightly vanilla if it wasn't animated by someone who applied their real-life passion to their animations. We got to see some great tricks and Ubers that you will be very, very pleased with. They're very, very, very SSX. So, trick fiends, have no fear: the tricks will look as good, if not better, than you remember.

Level and World Design:
Again, an area I really can't talk about, but I will say that I was very impressed with. (A few certain diehard SSX fans in the audience, one who posts here, were also pretty impressed.) We didn't see any final environments, because, again, the game is far away from being finished, and typically, visual polish is something that comes later on, in addition to optimization.

But, we did get a sense of the design philosophy, which was actually very different (when explained by Dave Taylor, IIRC, the art director) from anything I've ever read. As has been explained before, the team is taking the data from Mountain Man and taking some fairly generous creative liberties. Each mountain might have geographical features of its own unique brand, such as finger column formations, crevasses, ridges, natural half-pipes, and so on. The team is exaggerating certain features (like say, elevation or steepness) in order to properly tailor the experience. Then, on top of that, a mountain might have its own man-made features put in -- but ones that are tailored to inject a fun, but maybe unreal or fantastical experience you'd not see in real life. For instance, if you look at the already revealed Himalayas track we've seen, that's said to represent an abandoned Tibetan monastery that represents the Great Wall of China. But, if you paid attention in grade school, you'd know that the Great Wall doesn't look like that... nor does it run through the Himalayas. Another example is the team's version of Kilimanjaro: in real life there does exist a volcanic crater at the top, but the SSX team went and hollowed Kilimanjaro out with a network of lava veins that crisscross into and around one another, and even out the surface of the mountain and back in again.

And yes, Todd stressed that window dressings for the mountains are coming, but again, much later in development. How they will look, how dense, and to what capacity they'll look like the festival atmosphere of the old SSX games is yet to be known. An interesting note is that, in the PS2/XBOX/GCN-era, billboards and bleachers were used to mask short draw distances; a tool to cover up the technical limitations of the hardware. They were also used to "gate in" riders down a specific path, and one of a small scale limited by the hardware, once again. You'll still see very claustrophobic and focused runs, like the Kilimanjaro tunnels, but they're purposefully implemented this time around for variety's sake.

This was a really interesting presentation just on the fact that the range of themes showcased across the different mountain ranges was like nothing we've seen before. Although the game is going for a realistic feel, the look is still very much one of an exaggerated unreality that would be really fun to shred through. Trust me on this one: you will like the environments. They're unique characters in their own right.

Character and World Fiction:

So, Sean Smillie lead us through this presentation. Listening to him speak about the characters, and his dedication to minute details (such as female hair length, eyebrow angles, and costume design right down to textile elements) really expresses his passion for the characters of SSX. He's done a staggering amount of work on updating returning characters' backstories in accordance with their past appearances.

He spoke on the range of character design styles as he referenced slides of character inspirations going from old SSX character designs, to the Gorillaz, and even real photos of professional snowboarders. In all of this he hopes to follow along the spectrum of "core shredders" (the realistic and believable Mac) to "snowboard superheroes" (like the beautiful and Amazonian Elise) established by past games; all character designs fit somewhere in, or on the ends, of this range. He joked that, back in his snowboarding industry days, he would ride with or see people who dressed like Psymon does in this game.

If you're really into the character backstories, you'll want to keep an eye out for the comics he's writing, following the events of the last game up to this point. You'll see where they change, grow up, and why they will look and act the way they do now.

--

Well, I hope you appreciated the write up. I'm doing my best to represent NeoGAF, and the guys and girls from MerquryCity.com are doing a great job of expressing honest concerns and feedback. If you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer them within my legal obligations to the NDA!

:]

EDIT: Trying to get names and titles corrected to properly credit SSX team members. I will probably still not get things right, but I want all of the hardworking people on the team to get their names and positions cited properly. I'm trying though, guys!
 
#92
I'm feeling a lot more optomistic about this game compared to when it was first revealed. If it is able to have the charm and colorful nature of Tricky & 3 then I cannot wait to try it out.
 
#94
Did they mention being able to turn off the snow shaping? Is that only in certain modes?

Are stats and outfits connected? Wear a certain shirt, get a certain boost; wear a different shirt, get a different boost?

I really don't like the realistic snowboarder look the riders have so far. If there's other looks too, then fine, but if that's all we're getting, I'm going to be more than a little bummed.

I think my feelings align with BruiserBear's. The game looks fun, and I'm sure it'll be good, but that's it. I don't see this meeting or overtaking Tricky for me.
 
#95
I finally was able to get my account here validated, so...

soultron, I hope you don't mind but I quoted your post over at merq so the fellow ssx'ers could see it.

Keep the info coming.
 
#96
Yes Soultron I love you.

Framerate at a build specifically made to be showcased at an event usually says a bit. If the game is running at 60, you can expect it will stay that way in the final version (Forza, GT, etc). If it's 30, it usually means they either haven't quite reached the optimization they wanted yet for the sweet 60 and instead of running it at variable framerate they lock it at 30. Of course it may also mean it's just going to be 30.

It's not a huge concern as environments and tracks anyway, not to me at least. I was fairly sure decorating the track with the SSX style would come really late into development so I was never worried *that* much about how everything looked a bit barren at E3.

I also think they have an incredible system for physics too. I immediately thought at E3 listening to Todd talking about the stability system they had a great system in place. And seeing the avalanches forming in that deadly descent so naturally really is a sight to behold.

Speaking of Todd, he really is a great guy isn't him?

Thanks for the insight.

Edit: Oh hi vix.
 
#99
I really am jealous of the folks that are more than likely playing the game as we speak. Can't wait for the demo.

This is gonna be a day one purchase for me regardless.

(and hi baka)
 
It's gonna be a day one purchase for me too. I think they're trying their best and we'll get the best SSX we could've gotten from this and even if it's just A or AA game (not saying that means it's a bad game), I'd like to support them and give a +1 sale so EA lets a sequel be developed.