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Star Fox Wii Hypothesis: Stripping it down to the "Less is More" analogy.

All Nintendo has to do is create a remake that mashes together Starfox and Starfox 64. Redo the graphics (60 FPS is essential), get the controls right, keep the story as simple and inobtrusive as the originals, and boom--instant great game.

If they get that right, then they can worry about making a completely new game in the franchise.
 
Pimpbaa said:
Rail shooters is an outdated game concept. Best to leave Star Fox dead and buried.
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I kinda agree.

Starfox 64 isn't THAT much of a classic, it's kinda fun but these days it's waaaay too easy.
 
Starfox 64 isn't THAT much of a classic, it's kinda fun but these days it's waaaay too easy.
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The fuck it isn't, and you're full of shit or a god amongst men if you had any easy time getting all those medals.

I'd take a million Panzer Dragoons and Star Fox 64's over the endless shit parade of first person shooters we have spewing out every month today.
 
Rail shooters are fantastic. Give me a next-gen Starfox 64 or Panzer Dragoon Orta and I'll be a very happy man.

But one thing to keep in mind, Nintendo: if at any time one of your developers starts to take Starfox out of the cockpit of either a landmaster, an arwing, or a submarine, you should shoot him in the kneecaps. Both of them.
 
It's mind boggling how Star Fox is one of those franchises that you would think it difficult to mess up, but it keeps happening time and time again. All we need is a rail shooter where you NEVER have any ground missions. At all.

Also, the original Star Fox staff roll is pretty cool.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=O7wkh1oHqqY
 
Shikamaru Ninja said:
The original creator of Star Fox? More like the original programmer. Dylan Cuthbert, the guy being used as the PR reference for Q-Games, was the main prorammer of the original game under EAD using the polygon technology created by the FX team at argonaut.

Even then EAD designed the characters (Takaya Imamura), polygon modeling (Tsuyoshi Watanabe), music (Hajime Hirasawa), and level design (Katsuya Eguchi).
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The reason I wrote "original creator" was because I saw a video interview of him on 1up (Points 02) that detailed some of his background in the industry, and it was presented in a way that made it look like he did have a very strong hand in the creation of Star Fox and Star Fox 2.

Star Fox sort of started as a Star Glider 3, based on an earlier Argonaut game, and so since he was the guy that created the tech, I think he had a great deal of influence on the game. Creator is probably too strong a word, but it was definitely a collaboration between Argonaut and Nintendo where Argonaut had influence. Of course you're right in all those other areas as well with Nintendo's input in terms of story and art design. He's also mentioned in interviews that Miyamoto had a lot of influence on getting the control to feel right.
 
I'm glad we got Star Fox 64 instead of Star Fox 2. If strategy elements are employed, I want one of two things: 1) a full buffet of mechanics and options, or 2) for the game to really change based on the choices I make. Star Fox 64 might be "stilted" and "stodgy" by today's standards, but I would take that fully fleshed concept over the half effort of Star Fox 2. I haven't played Command yet, though I hear it's like Star Fox 2 (I also hear that there are multiple endings, but that's not what I mean by dynamic, changing gameplay).

I did, however, enjoy Assault much more than the average gamer. I actually thought the tactical switching between weapons and vehicles was a bit of a boon to the gameplay. The main issues were that the level design was mediocre in every sense of the word and the controls needed refinment. But I enjoyed the actual concept, though the on foot missions were much too prominent. The problem is, giving so many options also means an abolition of the on rails missions, and they make for a bit of an awkward mix, at least as Assault did it.

Pimpbaa said:
Rail shooters is an outdated game concept. Best to leave Star Fox dead and buried.
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Does every game need to be open world now for it to be playable? I am still playing what I assume to be a game, and so I am willing to suspend my disbelief precisely because it is the gameplay that matters. We are not talking an outdated game concept in that it is socially awkward in 3D. Star Fox was always meant for 3D even on the SNES. So the only other possible complaint is that not having control is something best left in 1996. But the game works precisely because it is merely about survival. One can choose, in fact, to dodge everything along the way, and that is an acceptable strategy. But it doesn't accept the strategy of running. This is a gameplay concept that is still fun today, and it should not be done away with in the name of realism or what have you.
 
Rail shooters are not an outdated gameplay concept in terms of enjoyment, but in terms of economics it's a tough and tough sell with each year gone by. In fact, the same is true of "arcade" / score attack games in general. Gaming has shifted from "simple, short, play again and again to get better and better" to "complex, long, play through once and put down". There are still games that have the arcade archetype (to be honest, Wii Sports is a decent example), but for the most part commercial games have changed from the days where Star Fox could be monetized easily.

Look at the massive backlash against Yoshi's Touch and Go, or even Star Fox Command. The generally poor reception for "The Club". The overall shift of puzzle games to handhelds, digital distribution, and budget pricepoints.

Star Fox was inflated from a rail-shooter into the bloated mess that the GC games were precisely in an effort to keep the franchise commercially viable. I'd posit that if Nintendo had released an SF64-style GCN Star Fox game with less emphasis on "shitty friends" characters, they would have been met with initially poor critical reception, weak (comparatively) sales, and later cult game status.

Star Fox Command tried to strike a balance where there was narrative and a bit of length while still emphasizing replayability, and I think it's likely that any future Star Fox games will fall somewhere between Star Fox Command and the GCN installments in terms of complexity.
 
I want 3D models that resemble real puppets, on-rails Arwing levels including space levels with 70's style cinema starfields, an epic all-range battle level, 2 Landmaster levels and a really inspired Blue Marine level with insanely good water effects, ok I go now.
 
Wii said:
No rail shooting levels and the free range battles got a bit boring later on when you're just grinding to see the 10 or so endings (WHICH ARE FANTASTIC BY THE WAY, ESPECIALLY THE ONE THAT ALLUDES TO ANOTHER NINTENDO FRANCHISE)
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Wait wait wait... what's the connection to another Nintendo franchise, exactly? I'm curious.
 
I want on-foot missions to return. Assault's on-foot missions were fun in an EDF way, it's just that it made the Arwing missions take a backseat, which is not good.
 
bounchfx said:
I'd rather see F-Zero or Wave Race Wii than another tragic star fox
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Why do people act like we've had so many of them? There's only been one mediocre game in the series, Assault.

Don't even count Adventures. It wasn't even supposed to be a Star Fox game in the first place.
 
I just bought StarFox Assault (as well as SFA) used a few months ago. Not great but not terrible either.

Seeing how good a StarFox ships can look on GameCube hardware, I cannot wait for a Wii outing that takes the series back to SF/SF64 with Wii controls.
 
Stumpokapow said:
Star Fox was inflated from a rail-shooter into the bloated mess that the GC games were precisely in an effort to keep the franchise commercially viable. I'd posit that if Nintendo had released an SF64-style GCN Star Fox game with less emphasis on "shitty friends" characters, they would have been met with initially poor critical reception, weak (comparatively) sales, and later cult game status.
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You really think so? I think the franchise still had quite a bit of life left in it after SF64 (I believe Adventures sold over a million), and probably would have continued doing really good if people didn't turned off to the game after SFA.
 
I don't think you have to stick with just flying. The submarine episode in Starfox 64 was very atmospheric, and the tank episode with the train was excellent. Plus I think the game would benefit from using the IR in the wiimote as the aiming device.
 
SF: Assault sucked. I liked it because I like the simple arcade style gameplay. But the game was ass compared to other Nintendo games. The music was amazing, even orchestrated it blew me away. The first mission was okay, Star Fox going through a battle fleet with decent visuals. The game went downhill as soon as the first Aperoid made it's debut. The worst level was the Snow world. The game just didn't have a "soul". It felt empty and the "tribute" to Star Fox Adventures made me cry. It showed that RARE were the masters of Nintendo hardware even back then. Star Fox: Adventures might not have been a true Star Fox title it sure was alot better than the shit we got afterwards.

I still think that they can do some cool stuff with the franchise. The Smash Bros. level and Star Fox Command(although I haven't played it yet) show that the series is far from dead. Not to mention the Twilight Princess dragon flight game, a control scheme like that would be perfect for Star Fox. When I first learned about the Wii Remote I just wanted a Star Fox game it would be so awesome. I guess the time is right for Star Fox to return to his former glory with a new Nintendo EAD Star Fox game.
 
i remember in 1993 starfox was unlike anything i've ever seen in a videogame. i simply couldnt believe my snes was pulling off what was going onsceen.

begs the question: was that all starfox was? something that was graphically revolutionary for its time - and thats it? i guess starfox64 answered that question, that it could be a viable series. but i hope the development team goes back and asks what exactly the series is about.

as for SF wii, i hope they visually pull out all the stops for this one and really push the wii to the limits. i'm talking bleeding edge shit here. i'm one of those anti-graphics whore guys, but this kind of game demands the best visuals. and i want it to be on-rail, unless the developers dreamed up something truely brillant otherwise
 
Star Fox is a different breed than an arcade shooter precisely because each level is different and has a fair amount of production value in its own right. There was a shift in Assault where one could experience the whole game throughout one play through, replete with save files, as opposed to the multiple routes of the first two games, but most of the Star Foxes have been rather sizable adventures. In fact, I think that's why Star Fox was so well received in the first place. The score was a focus, but it was not consumate. There was still a clear goal of reaching the end of the level and the end of the game, driven by a "narrative", and it was all pretty forgiving.

Perhaps one could argue that Star Fox is a franchise caught in flux between the hardcore craving meatier games and the casual trending more toward games like Wii Sports, but I think the move away from what Star Fox once was has for the most part been met with complete apathy. The deflated sales have born that out. Both Star Fox and Star Fox 64 were big million sellers. Now Nintendo hardly even brings the new games up (I'm not even sure what they sold to be honest).

I think that Star Fox would have a much easier time trending the opposite way - toward the casual, eschewing mechanics, putting everything back on rails again. I cannot believe that the pool is completely dry for people who don't care about all encompassing control over a character. As long as it retains its smart level design and its simple, fun atmosphere, I think that there are people willing to play it.
 
The simple solution for Star Fox is to pull a Call of Duty 4: short but intense single player just like the N64 version, but with an online mode that's deep and addictive. And no more freakin' on-foot missions or love story tripe. Seriously, the majority of the multiple endings in Command were trash, and Krystal has been a detriment to the series as well. Instead of fleshing out her origins and "telekinetic" powers, she's prototypical furry pin-up material. Ugh. At least Tricky had character development.

But finding the faults is the easy part. The hard part is finding the right team to make levels as great as the ones in SF64. Perhaps Nintendo should try not farming this one out? Worked out pretty well before. But honestly, I've bitched about what has happened to this series and what could be done to fix it in so many threads over the years that I should just have a notepad file to copy/paste whenever someone makes this kind of thread. As a fan of the series, it just doesn't feel like it's worth the effort to get worked up over the idea of a sequel anymore when it hasn't been done right in a decade.
 
APZonerunner said:
On Rails.

Nunchuk Stick to control the movement of Arwing/Landmaster/Blue Marine.

Player has a choice. Classic 64 style - crosshairs controlled by Nunchuk stick - OR point+shoot control. Trigger 1 (the bigger one) on Nunchuk Barrel Rolls left. Remote trigger barrel rolls right. A fires lasers. Down D-Pad & Trigger 2 on Nunchuk fires Bomb.

Profit.
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This is not the Warioware Star Fox minigame control scheme, and thus is full of fail.
 
I imagine it as a combination of using the stick as well as motion control in your left hand to fly and aim/arsenal/tricks with the right.
 
The fact that Nintendo haven't managed to release a solid Starfox game since 64 really baffles me. The basic blueprint is there so why not just follow 64's formula and tart up the visuals a bit and hey presto you have a good game on you hands instead of shite like Assault and Command.
 
after the atrocious mess that was Assault, the less than decent Adventure and the kinda meh DS version I don't really think i want to see a new iteration


RIP Fox and be it
 
DavidDayton said:
Wait wait wait... what's the connection to another Nintendo franchise, exactly? I'm curious.
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Since Krystal and Slippy left, Fox and Falco give up StarFox to become F-Zero pilots, it fits with the various StarFox themed pilots in F-Zero X

Pimpbaa said:
Rail shooters is an outdated game concept.
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SO ARE YOU!
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
No one is going to make a Star Fox game anywhere near as good as Star Fox 64.

I've learned to stop hoping and stick with that game.
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I honestly can not tell you how much I love that game. All Nintendo would have to do is say "We are releasing a remake of Star Fox 64 for the Wii" and I would buy one and lead the casual Wii parade with a smile on my face.
 
You know it just occurred to me that Star Fox 2 should be released on VC, I mean the game was completed right? Or 95% completed? Why not just fill the 5% void and release it, if they can do it with SaP then I can't see why Star Fox 2 can't get the same treatment.
 
Have Monolith/Camelot develop the next Star Fox and make it into a RPG ala Panzer Dragoon Saga.

Or just take the idea of what Warioware Wii had and turn it into a full fledge remake/homage and put it on the Wii Shop.
 
robor said:
You know it just occurred to me that Star Fox 2 should be released on VC, I mean the game was completed right? Or 95% completed? Why not just fill the 5% void and release it, if they can do it with SaP then I can't see why Star Fox 2 can't get the same treatment.
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Yes it was and that's a great idea.
 
Icomeinpeace said:
I want 3D models that resemble real puppets, on-rails Arwing levels including space levels with 70's style cinema starfields, an epic all-range battle level, 2 Landmaster levels and a really inspired Blue Marine level with insanely good water effects, ok I go now.
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slippyxfalco.jpg
 
You know it just occurred to me that Star Fox 2 should be released on VC, I mean the game was completed right? Or 95% completed? Why not just fill the 5% void and release it, if they can do it with SaP then I can't see why Star Fox 2 can't get the same treatment.
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They didn't do much (if anything?) to Sin and Punishment. Starfox 2 has a lot done, but releasing it would still involve some honest effort.
 
Kintaro said:
I honestly can not tell you how much I love that game. All Nintendo would have to do is say "We are releasing a remake of Star Fox 64 for the Wii" and I would buy one and lead the casual Wii parade with a smile on my face.
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Virtual console.
 
I didn't like Star Fox Command much at all.

It's not the control scheme [Which I really liked], it's the actual game itself. Star Fox command is nothing but several "all range mode" levels strung together by a far too simple and frankly lame map system.

Every single "all range mode" level [ie; the whole game] is nothing more than "Shoot 5 suchandsuch". It's nothing as elaborate or awesome as SF64's "Katina" level:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaxJjfH_dXk

Almost all "Bosses" were simply "fly through hoops until you reach the end" too.
 
Tain said:
They didn't do much (if anything?) to Sin and Punishment. Starfox 2 has a lot done, but releasing it would still involve some honest effort.
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Well semantics aside, they still released a game that never saw the light of day in the Western world due to what ever circumstance. VC was a gateway to give that title another chance. Oh yea, sure, Star Fox 2 might need more tweaking etc, but it's certainly another viable example of redeeming lost software potential.
 
I want to see a Star Fox like 64 too, only this time I want all of the characters to be actual puppets. I want them to be mockeries of themselves like this in all the mission briefings and stuff. I don't need to read some melodramatic romance between furries (ala SF Command). And I definitely don't need another rehash of the Andross saga. If done properly, I think this would be friggin hilarious and totally suit the series.
 
It'd probably be a pain in the ass to implement, but I'd love to see Star Fox Wii with online co-op. It would still be on-rails (with modified flight paths to mix things up) the majority of the time, but imagine tackling bosses in all-range mode and saving your friend's asses from the scores of enemy ships--or better yet, Star Wolf.

Think about it.
 
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