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Star Trek: Beyond Driftopia trailer officially released

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Bobby Roberts said:
Nicholas Meyer didn't direct Voyage Home, Nimoy did. He helped write some of it, though.

edit: Apologies if you weren't meaning to suggest he directed 2. I might be misunderstanding the aside. Sorry.

Either way, the fact he was the first hire Fuller made on his Star Trek series says something, right?
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Sorry. My memory was fuzzy… I knew he was involved, for some reason I thought he directed. I had no idea he was hired on for the series. That is fantastic news.
 
I think the new movies are just as good, if not better than the majority of the older films. Every time I have seen the new trailer with people who like the shows just openly groan at it.
 
Never was good at lists, especially when you have so many. Like, how to I really conclude one is a 7 or 8 out of 12 or 13 movies...

So I'll put them in tiers...

Tier 1 - Khan, Undiscovered Country, First Contact
Tier 2 - Voyage Home, Star Trek, Motion Picture
Tier 3 - Generations, Search for Spock, Insurrection, Into Darkness
Tier 4 - Nemesis, Final Frontier

I still find most of them enjoyable in some way, and can re-watch any of them except for Nemesis and The Final Frontier. Sometimes I feel that Insurrection should be bottom tier, but it's not that outright bad, just kind of there, with an odd charm. I don't know.

Bobby Roberts said:
Either way, the fact he was the first hire Fuller made on his Star Trek series says something, right?
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This was the announcement that made me go from passive curiosity, to actively interested.
 
What the hell have people got against Nemesis?

Putting it on par with Final Frontier is just plain wrong in every way, and putting it below Insurrection is just disgraceful.
 
For me:

1. Star Trek: First Contact
2. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
3. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
4. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
5. Star Trek: The Motion Picture
6. Star Trek: Nemesis
7. Star Trek: Generations
8. Star Trek: Insurrection
9. Star Trek (2009)
10: Star Trek III: The Search For Spock
11. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
12. Star Trek Into Darkness

If Mr. Scott can right this ship after the travesty that was Into Darkness, he's the finest engineer in Starfleet.
 
Glad to see First Contact being considered among the top ST movies around here. I mean, I know that it was generally liked, but a couple years back there was a weird attempt to trash it and say it wasn't very good. I blame Red Letter Media for that.
 
I think Khan is a bit overrated in comparison to some. I do see it near or close to the ceiling of how good a Star Trek film can be.

First Contact is up there for me too. My list probably looks something like,

Motion Picture
Khan
First Contact
Star Trek
Into Darkness
 
Lagamorph said:
What the hell have people got against Nemesis?

Putting it on par with Final Frontier is just plain wrong in every way, and putting it below Insurrection is just disgraceful.
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I couldn't even give you a good answer to that. I always give up halfways through the movie. It's just so....blah. Just really bad.


And put me into the group that keeps forgetting that this "Beyond" movie is actually happening soon.
 
Nemesis is the only Trek film I haven't gone back and rewatched again, which I guess says something. All the other films I've at least seen enough times to appreciate what they do well alongside the bad.

To me, I mostly break the films into brackets.

Great:
Wrath of Khan
Search for Spock
Voyage Home
Undiscovered Country

Good:
First Contact
ST09

Okay:
Into Darkness
Generations

Bottom tier:
Nemesis
Insurrection
TMP
The Final Frontier


I will say that I find the worst of Trek generally more enjoyable than the worst of Star Wars, although that's not a great threshold of quality even when I don't think the prequels are so horrifying.
 
Sanjuro said:
I think Khan is a bit overrated in comparison to some. I do see it near or close to the ceiling of how good a Star Trek film can be.

First Contact is up there for me too. My list probably looks something like,

Motion Picture
Khan
First Contact
Star Trek
Into Darkness
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Motion picture doesn't get enough love. It tried to be less trek and more 2001, but there's still a lot to appreciate. The trippy Spock "space walk," the reveal at the end, and the surprisingly grotesque transporter malfunction.. It wasn't exactly "fun" but it was certainly interesting.
 
Tookay said:
Glad to see First Contact being considered among the top ST movies around here. I mean, I know that it was generally liked, but a couple years back there was a weird attempt to trash it and say it wasn't very good. I blame Red Letter Media for that.
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Try blaming the content of the film. It is a dumb movie.
 
1. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
2. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
3. Star Trek (2009)
4. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
5. Star Trek: First Contact
6: Star Trek III: The Search For Spock
7. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
8. Star Trek: Generations
9. Star Trek: The Motion Picture
10. Star Trek: Nemesis
11. Star Trek: Insurrection
12. Star Trek Into Darkness
 
I was about to ask why the hell was this trailer only just now released when the movie comes out in two months. Then I saw that it was actually posted last year. Is this just me being out of the loop or is the hype kinda dead for this thing? Trailer looked great though.
 
Rabbi_Vole said:
Motion picture doesn't get enough love. It tried to be less trek and more 2001, but there's still a lot to appreciate. The trippy Spock "space walk," the reveal at the end, and the surprisingly grotesque transporter malfunction.. It wasn't exactly "fun" but it was certainly interesting.
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I don't put them in that order, but I'm terms of the highlights those would be my go to. Motion Picture is very random.
 
Rabbi_Vole said:
Motion picture doesn't get enough love. It tried to be less trek and more 2001, but there's still a lot to appreciate. The trippy Spock "space walk," the reveal at the end, and the surprisingly grotesque transporter malfunction.. It wasn't exactly "fun" but it was certainly interesting.
Click to expand...

The way I've always parsed this film is that it's a great fifty minute episode, somehow extended out to 145 minutes. Frankly, I see little that truly distinguishes it from 2001 besides fan expectations of what a Star Trek movie should be. The best Star Trek movies struck a balance between thought-provoking sci-fi and action set-pieces alongside great character interaction. The worst movies were the ones made by the guy who wanted to make Star Wars and eventually got his wish.
 
I've never actually seen a TMP fan edit that just focuses on slimming it down—there are ones that turn it more into the original "In Thy Image" teleplay, or ones that make it "more like a TOS episode", or ones that try to substantially change the film incorporating other footage, etc. But I'm convinced most of its issues are merely presentational rather than structural in nature. You can forgive a lot more in 90 minutes than in 130+.

Really the only thing stopping me from attempting it myself to prove the thesis is you either work in SD with the director's cut or you have to work from the theatrical cut in Blu-Ray.
 
Into Darkness is tied with The Final Frontier for worst of the bunch, and it ain't even close. Not a single redeemable moment in either flick.
 
WanderingWind said:
Into Darkness is tied with The Final Frontier for worst of the bunch, and it ain't even close. Not a single redeemable moment in either flick.
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While I haven't seen Into Darkness, I think Final Frontier has some stuff going for it. It has some interesting ideas about religion and cult figures. Near the end where Kirk is in the shuttle it gets a really strange horror movie vibe.

It's not a good movie, but Search for Spock is my least favorite. It is just so boring. I am slightly engaged when watching V.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
They absolutely did.

Anyway, Darren Franich over at Entertainment Weekly is going through and writing some really great long-form essays about Star Trek on the way to Beyond getting released.

You all should read them, because while there's a lot of people who write a lot of bullshit about Star Trek, not many seem to dig into what's really there (as opposed to what they'd like to be there) like Franich is doing. Fair, insightful, funny - this is some good stuff.

The Motion Picture
The Wrath of Khan

One a week.

edit: Bonus - an article about Creed & Force Awakens that takes a hard left into serious Star Trek talk that is also very much worth reading.
Click to expand...

Great reads, both. Thanks!
 
Frankfurter said:
Am I the only one who liked (and still likes) Insurrection?
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To me what brings it down is both the bad attempts at humor throughout, the repetition of the "Data becomes a real boy!" stuff, both of which make the characters feel like idiots... and then the entire central premise of the film. We're supposed to root for Picard in their struggle against Starfleet... but frankly the Son'a and Starfleet are in the right, as far as I'm concerned. A galaxy could be helped by the power of the planet, and 600 people who were never indigenous to the planet are basically saying "fuck you, we won't share", and demonstrated that by kicking the Son'a off the planet. If we had a film where in the year 2100 some humans can live forever but refuse to share that with the rest of the planet, you'd rightly see them as the bad guys (wasn't that basically the plot of that bad Justin Timberlake film?)
 
Fuchsdh said:
To me what brings it down is both the bad attempts at humor throughout, the repetition of the "Data becomes a real boy!" stuff, both of which make the characters feel like idiots... and then the entire central premise of the film. We're supposed to root for Picard in their struggle against Starfleet... but frankly the Son'a and Starfleet are in the right, as far as I'm concerned. A galaxy could be helped by the power of the planet, and 600 people who were never indigenous to the planet are basically saying "fuck you, we won't share", and demonstrated that by kicking the Son'a off the planet. If we had a film where in the year 2100 some humans can live forever but refuse to share that with the rest of the planet, you'd rightly see them as the bad guys (wasn't that basically the plot of that bad Justin Timberlake film?)
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But the Ba'ku never said that!? They weren't even given a choice to say anything, considering that the whole Sona/Starfleet mission was using a cloaked base and cloaked soldiers.
Actually as far as I remember, either Picard or the Admiral proposed that the Son'a just live there, but they rejected because they said that no one actually wants to live on that planet and it would just take too long until they are healed.
I think Picard had a few pretty good points when he for example argued that while the Ba'ku kind of randomly stranded on the planet, that that still isn't any kind of excuse to just bring them to some other planet. On what kind of basis would this resettlement happen? Obviously only on the basis of "We are stronger, so fuck you". Doesn't sound very Federation-like to me.
 
Fuchsdh said:
To me what brings it down is both the bad attempts at humor throughout, the repetition of the "Data becomes a real boy!" stuff, both of which make the characters feel like idiots... and then the entire central premise of the film. We're supposed to root for Picard in their struggle against Starfleet... but frankly the Son'a and Starfleet are in the right, as far as I'm concerned. A galaxy could be helped by the power of the planet, and 600 people who were never indigenous to the planet are basically saying "fuck you, we won't share", and demonstrated that by kicking the Son'a off the planet. If we had a film where in the year 2100 some humans can live forever but refuse to share that with the rest of the planet, you'd rightly see them as the bad guys (wasn't that basically the plot of that bad Justin Timberlake film?)
Click to expand...

It was an application of Star Trek morality in a bubble. Picard was supposed to be right due to absolutism over respecting other cultures, etc. And the script made it cartoonish by declaring the only possible way to collect the beneficial element, with the Federation's amazing technology, was with a doomsday weapon.

There was also a strain of primitivism worship in the script, with the Ba'ku having discovered True Inner Peace by going backwards and choosing not to use technology. Which was only practical for them because the radiation acted as their life support system, keeping them young and healthy, with cell damage perfectly regenerated forever. That was faintly weird to see celebrated in Star Trek, which had always been about humanity mastering its dark side then going on to use technology and science for good. (Where as the Ba'ku framed technology as a damning temptation, leading to a life wasted on hollow pursuits.)
 
It goes:

1. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn
2. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
3. Star Trek First Contact
4. Star Trek 2009
5. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
6. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
7. Star Trek Generations
8. Star Trek the Motion Picture
9. Star Trek Into Darkness
10. Star Trek Insurrection
11. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
12. Star Trek Nemesis

Its a toss-up for the bottom three. But I gave Nemesis the nod as it was a horrendous send off for the TNG crew and a slap in the face to the fans.
 
Frankfurter said:
But the Ba'ku never said that!? They weren't even given a choice to say anything, considering that the whole Sona/Starfleet mission was using a cloaked base and cloaked soldiers.
Actually as far as I remember, either Picard or the Admiral proposed that the Son'a just live there, but they rejected because they said that no one actually wants to live on that planet and it would just take too long until they are healed.
I think Picard had a few pretty good points when he for example argued that while the Ba'ku kind of randomly stranded on the planet, that that still isn't any kind of excuse to just bring them to some other planet. On what kind of basis would this resettlement happen? Obviously only on the basis of "We are stronger, so fuck you". Doesn't sound very Federation-like to me.
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The Federation operates on the basis of "needs of the many" all the time. They resettled Federation citizens against their will (leading to the Maquis.)

The Ba'ku look down on technology so it's not like the Son'a would have been happily welcomed back after being kicked off the planet even if they would have been healed. We're told they attempted a coup and were exiled for that, but given what we see I have a hard time believing that the Ba'ku were willing to harbor a technology-focused community in their midst.

You can't have the entire galaxy settle on one planet either. The only favorable outcomes for the wider galaxy would have meant the Ba'ku losing. Them's the breaks.

I get the idea the script draws of trying to compare relocation of the Ba'ku to forced expulsion of indigenous peoples, but I don't think they're comparable. Really Picard's fighting about the terms of a eminent domain decree, and that's a lot less exciting.
 
Symphonia said:
Do people really hate Into Darkness that much?
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I think the hate for it is overblown. It's actually fine overall but it has some really annoying or face palming story decision though. The biggest offending thing about it is the Kahn stuff and how they lied about it (which had an insulting feel to it by some I think) and casting choice they made. If it was new character there wouldn't have been a problem I think.
 
Without looking at everyone's list:

1. Wrath of Khan - Duh.
2. Undiscovered Country - Aged well.
3. First Contact - Aged less well.
4. Galaxy Quest - RIP Alan Rickman.
5. Voyage Home - Fun 80's romp.
6. Search for Spock - Surprisingly OK
7. 2009 - Fun and flashy, but not my cup of tea.
8. Insurrection - like a TV episode, comforting and inoffensive.
9. Motion Picture - zzzz.
10. Generations - Wasted best enterprise for nothing
11. Final Frontier - It's so silly that it's almost enjoyable. No wait, it's terrible.
12. Nemesis - Thank god Tom Hardy salvaged his career from this.

Incomplete: Into Darkness - haven't seen it, have no intention to.
 
Fuchsdh said:
The Federation operates on the basis of "needs of the many" all the time. They resettled Federation citizens against their will (leading to the Maquis.)

The Ba'ku look down on technology so it's not like the Son'a would have been happily welcomed back after being kicked off the planet even if they would have been healed. We're told they attempted a coup and were exiled for that, but given what we see I have a hard time believing that the Ba'ku were willing to harbor a technology-focused community in their midst.

You can't have the entire galaxy settle on one planet either. The only favorable outcomes for the wider galaxy would have meant the Ba'ku losing. Them's the breaks.

I get the idea the script draws of trying to compare relocation of the Ba'ku to forced expulsion of indigenous peoples, but I don't think they're comparable. Really Picard's fighting about the terms of a eminent domain decree, and that's a lot less exciting.
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As far as I know, the Ba'ku are not part of the Federation, which means the Federation has zero authority over them. What it did in the treaties with Cardassia is not relevant (and it's also sth. entirely different, i.e. some kind of compromise with Cardassia had to be made).

In terms of not being welcomed back... the Son'a were kind of welcomed back at the very end. After the Sona tried to murder every single Ba'ku, too.

I just don't see how one could propose that resettling the Ba'ku is a fair point to start off. Just because the entire galaxy can't settle on that planet, doesn't mean that it's fine to turn it into an uninhabitable planet for the forseeable future. It really seems to boil down to the point that the Ba'ku are only 600. So what would be your stance, if there were 6 billion Ba'ku on the planet.
 
Effect said:
I think the hate for it is overblown. It's actually fine overall but it has some really annoying or face palming story decision though. The biggest offending thing about it is the Kahn stuff and how they lied about it (which had an insulting feel to it by some I think) and casting choice they made. If it was new character there wouldn't have been a problem I think.
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It's right next to final frontier in terms of quality, imo.
 
I go:

1) Undiscovered Country
2) Wrath of Khan
3) Voyage Home
4) First Contact
5) Final Frontier
6) Generations
7) The Motion Picture (DC)
8) Trek 2009
9) Search for Spock
10) Insurrection
11) Into Darkness
12) Nemesis

Into Darkness actually used to be bottom until I recently rewatched Nemesis.
Final Frontier is so high because of the first ten minutes, which is better then anything that happens in the movies below it. Motion picture would be lower then SOS if I had to sit through all the extra navel gazing in TMP. Generations is so high purely because of this scene : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrJiU9BOEBI.
 
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Star Trek First Contact
Star Trek 2009
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
Galaxy Quest
Star Wreck In The Pirkinning
Star Trek Into Darkness
Star Trek The Motion Picture
Star Trek Generations
Star Trek Nemesis
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
Star Trek Insurrection
 
Ranking thread?!?!?!


1. The Wrath of Khan
2. The Voyage Home
3. The Undiscovered Country
4. Star Trek 2009
5. First Contact
6. The Search for Spock
7. The Motion Picture
8. Generations
9. Into Darkness
10. Nemesis
11. The Final Frontier
12. Insurrection
 
The must-see:

1. Wrath of Khan
1b. Galaxy Quest
2. The Undiscovered Country

The good-but-flawed:

3. The Voyage Home
4. First Contact
5. Star Trek (09)

The U.S.S. Meh:

6. The Motion Picture
7. The Search for Spock
8, Generations

Why do most of the bad ones also have shitty titles:

9. Into Darkness
10. The Final Frontier
11. Insurrection
DNW: Nemesis
 
Bobby Roberts said:
They absolutely did.

Anyway, Darren Franich over at Entertainment Weekly is going through and writing some really great long-form essays about Star Trek on the way to Beyond getting released.

You all should read them, because while there's a lot of people who write a lot of bullshit about Star Trek, not many seem to dig into what's really there (as opposed to what they'd like to be there) like Franich is doing. Fair, insightful, funny - this is some good stuff.

The Motion Picture
The Wrath of Khan

One a week.

edit: Bonus - an article about Creed & Force Awakens that takes a hard left into serious Star Trek talk that is also very much worth reading.
Click to expand...

Lovely.

Also the best Star Trek movie is VI.
 
6 months since the teaser. are they waiting for x-men (the last "big" film till june/july), before they begin their marketing offensive? why havent they released a different teaser/trailer after all the negative backlash?
 
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