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[Alcibiades]

I might be alone on this but I was getting Nemesis deja vu with the villain.

They both have these big menacing ships armed with some new fangled super weapon and they both weren't all that bad originally but they got fucked over and now want revenge against the heroes.

I got lots of Nemesis flashbacks and for a split-second thought they might be related somehow...

Romulan bluecollar nutbags go crazy against an important Federation character with uberships... (with no regard for their own government)

Shows how bad the writing and storytelling was that they resorted to ripoff the already lame villain from the last film and resort to the laziest Trek fallback in the book - time travel.

A mindless B-movie sure, but sort of how like Jurassic Park 3 is a fun, but ultimately empty ride compared to the first one, this Star Trek is a great "summer movie" interpretation of a series that at some points told really good stories.

Had they started giving the story any thought, the movie audience they were aiming for wouldn't be flocking to it. They needed to aim for the lowest common denominator here for any chance of Trek revival.

 

[Zabka]

I understand what you're saying - but think about it rationally in terms of the circumstances. In order for Nero to accomplish his plans he has to get this monstrous ship and weaponry and go back in time (which we are led to believe wasn't intentional on his part), then determine that the red matter can be used as a weapon, develop a delivery system years in the past, wait for Spock to show up, weaponize the red matter, then use it.

Its not that I find his reasoning bad (well not entirely), but I find the chain of events that would have to transpire in succession in order for it to work so improbable that it just doesn't make sense. It seems more likely to me that he'd find himself back in time with an advanced ship and advanced capabilities and do his revenge thing with what he has available. There is no real reason to wait 25 years for Spock to show up. You could go and cripple star fleet and the federation (apparently) and when Spock shows up he finds all of civilized space a burning wasteland. That seems like something that would piss him off too

Making Spock watch Vulcan's destruction, and making him feel both responsible for it and powerless to stop it was the point of everything he did. Is it crazy to wait 25 years for revenge? I'd say it's in the same realm of crazy as murdering billions of people.

Also, apparently there was a subplot with Nero being held captive by Klingons that was cut due to test audiences.

 

[Trurl]

I just saw a word that sums up all the major reasons I'm disappointed with this movie:

Bruckheimerian​

 

[MisterHero]

Had they started giving the story any thought, the movie audience they were aiming for wouldn't be flocking to it. They needed to aim for the lowest common denominator here for any chance of Trek revival.

don't forget poorly-acted romance, faux-Shakespearian tragedy and political commentary

wtf man

 

[Phoenix]

The Scene:

After The Final Battle, the Enterprise gets too close to the black hole! They’re getting drawn in, and Scotty says that if they eject the warp core and blow it up, the explosion might propel them to safety.

The Science:

Simply put, that won’t work. Sorry Scotty!

On Earth, detonating a bomb creates a shock wave, an expanding wave of pressure as the force from the explosion propagates through the air. In space — wait for it, wait for it… — there’s no air! So you don’t get a shock wave. When the matter and antimatter in the core combine, you get a fierce blast of electromagnetic radiation (fancy science-talk for light) in the form of gamma rays, and an expanding very thin shell of vaporized atoms from the material in the warp core itself.

To propel the Big E to safety, the bomb would have to transfer momentum to the ship. This is like hitting a pool ball with another one; the moving ball has momentum, which it then gives to the other one, causing it to move. Detonating the warp core would generate a lot of light, but only a tiny bit of mass would explode outward, so the momentum transfer would be minimal.

What would really happen is the ship would be vaporized from the massive release of energy. Oops! That would’ve made for a dramatic ending to the movie, but not a terribly satisfying one.

The other thing is that I'm surprised he missed is that by ejecting the core, the enterprise loses the ability to remain at warp - the thing that keeps them at their held position above the black hole. So when the core is ejected, the Enterprise will be pulled to the hole at the same speed as the warp core and be right there when it explodes.

Yeah, science makes this scene impossible.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Making Spock watch Vulcan's destruction, and making him feel both responsible for it and powerless to stop it was the point of everything he did. Is it crazy to wait 25 years for revenge? I'd say it's in the same realm of crazy as murdering billions of people.

Also, apparently there was a subplot with Nero being held captive by Klingons that was cut due to test audiences.

Why wouldn't he keep Spock around though after he caught him? He waited 25 years to capture him, just so he could make him watch Vulcan be destroyed, but instead of getting the satisfaction of seeing Spock's reaction, he drops him off on some backwater planet, that is apparently close enough to see the destruction, but far enough away to not be effected by the gravitational changes of Vulcan imploding.

Even taking into account that Spock would have no reaction at the destruction of Vulcan, lacking emotions and all, you would think he'd want to hold him during the destruction none the less. Then, I'd think he'd want to kill him afterwards as well. I mean, after all, this is Spock we're talking about here. He has traveled through time, and changed it, before, he could do it again. Hell, he even died and came back! Why take the chance! :lol

 

[Dan]

I did my so-called nitpicking in the other thread, but I'm glad to see more than a couple people here agree with me about the characters being treated as inherently legendary. Also disappointed to see some people in the other thread say that that was appropriate.

 

[Phoenix]

Making Spock watch Vulcan's destruction, and making him feel both responsible for it and powerless to stop it was the point of everything he did. Is it crazy to wait 25 years for revenge?

Is it crazy to wait 25 years for revenge? No. Is it crazy to wait 25 years to wait for revenge when you don't have to. Yes. Is it crazy to wait 25 years to launch a plan into motion considering that you're in that place "by accident". Yes. There is a whole lot of that sequence of events that we have to take 'on faith' work the way that they do in order for the scenes to work the way that they do.

He has to arrive in the past "oh shit what year is it - blow these guys up... not because it makes sense, but because they are a Federation vessel that's here and even though we need to operate in this area of space for an unknown number of years - lets not take this ship so we can do what we need to do undetected". (and note, having the newbie kirk crew investigating the Kelvin showing up again, Kirk expecting to find his father, and ending up at the JJ beast ship would given way for more development and character growth then they did)

He has to research and devise the red matter drill weapons - "good thing we have a drill, hey lets drop red matter into the core of a planet"

He has to predict when Spock will show up - "hmmm... lets figure out when he's going to arrive and lets wait for him to show up so we can launch this specific attack"
... etc ...

I found that sequence of events improbable given what they were telling us.

 

[Phoenix]

Why wouldn't he keep Spock around though after he caught him? He waited 25 years to capture him, just so he could make him watch Vulcan be destroyed, but instead of getting the satisfaction of seeing Spock's reaction, he drops him off on some backwater planet, that is apparently close enough to see the destruction, but far enough away to not be effected by the gravitational changes of Vulcan imploding.

And for all he knows, Spock could be taking a shit when Vulcan is imploding! Since he's soooo interested in having him watch and powerless to stop it - dropping him off somewhere where he COULD actually escape and effect the outcome or miss the event in its entirety (since planets do implode really quietly) seems counter to any sense whatsoever.

 

[DrForester]

Of all the things to complain about, you complain about Nero taking so long for his revenge.

Didn't you guys read The Count of Monte Cristo? Long, elaborate revenge strategies make the best stories. Sure he should have killed Spock, but why not make Spock suffer instead.

 

[The Librarian]

THREAD OVER

No matter what we talk about it's nothing compared to the write up at badastronomy.com By Captain James T. Killjoy.

For the record though, he loved the film.

clap.gif

 

[Dan]

Even taking into account that Spock would have no reaction at the destruction of Vulcan, lacking emotions and all, you would think he'd want to hold him during the destruction none the less. Then, I'd think he'd want to kill him afterwards as well. I mean, after all, this is Spock we're talking about here. He has traveled through time, and changed it, before, he could do it again. Hell, he even died and came back! Why take the chance! :lol

And it's Old Spock that gives Scottie the formula for long distance beaming and tells Kirk how to get Spock dethroned. If Old Spock wasn't on that 'planet' the movie would be over.

Of all the things to complain about, you complain about Nero taking so long for his revenge.

Didn't you guys read The Count of Monte Cristo? Long, elaborate revenge strategies make the best stories. Sure he should have killed Spock, but why not make Spock suffer instead.

But Nero's plan isn't exactly elaborate. It's mostly just long.

 

[CharlieDigital]

What does quantity have to do with it?

So first, an excerpt from Wiki on black holes:

Gravitational collapse occurs when an object's internal pressure is insufficient to resist the object's own gravity. For stars this usually occurs either because a star has too little "fuel" left to maintain its temperature, or because a star which would have been stable receives a lot of extra matter in a way which does not raise its core temperature. In either case the star's temperature is no longer high enough to prevent it from collapsing under its own weight (the ideal gas law explains the connection between pressure, temperature, and volume).

This gravitational collapse of heavy stars is assumed to be responsible for the formation of most (if not all) stellar mass black holes.​

It would kind of make sense that it it is introduced to the core of a planet, it could cause a gravitational collapse into a black hole if it had the right physical properties.

Now, why would it matter that a big ball would not need to be compressed by pressure? Let's assume that in whatever suspension that Spoke had it in, it was to maintain a stable state, whereby the mass would not collapse into itself. Completely plausible; in the big ball state, its internal pressure was sufficient to resist the object's own gravity in that environment. If the matter were extremely fucking dense (i.e., a lot of mass -> strong gravitational force), it is plausible (well, at least in my mind) that the red matter, once dispersed in an open atmosphere, would be pulled together by the force gravity generated by its own density (we assume that whatever solution and container Spock had it suspended in was used to counteract this).

 

[radioheadrule83]

Earlier tonight Channel 4 in the UK showed two things...

Bring Back Star Trek with Justin Lee Collins... he visited most of the original cast, including the first red shirt etc, notably William Shatner was absent from the programme. He re-created a silly scene on the enterprise bridge with Uhura, Chekov and Sulu which was quite funny then recreated Kirk's fight with the Gorn. Which was also quite funny...

after that Channel 4 aired Star Trek Nemesis, which I couldn't get through 5 minutes of. Its just felt really dated after seeing the new movie.

 

[Phoenix]

Of all the things to complain about, you complain about Nero taking so long for his revenge.

Didn't you guys read The Count of Monte Cristo? Long, elaborate revenge strategies make the best stories. Sure he should have killed Spock, but why not make Spock suffer instead.

Maybe its just me, but if ever I intend for someone to suffer - I actually want to see them suffer. Spock could have been killed by some beastie on the planet for all Nero knows long before the planet imploded. I would want to keep him safe, well fed and optimistic up until the point when the actual act happened. Then I'd drop him off in an environmental suit next to the Vulcan singularity so he could observe it up close, maybe even take the high council of vulcan and transport them at the event horizon so he could watch his history, society and all that is vulcan die with 100% certainty that it wasn't coming back.

Then when I was ready to go to warp I would line him up with one of the ships many confusingly design spikes and impale him as we warp away so every time I look out the viewport I could see what's left of his impaled corpse - maybe even fling it at space dock before attacking earth.

Trust me - long drawn out elaborate revenge I can do

 

[FnordChan]

They did it because they wouldn't accept the original cast of characters by post-TNG standards. Of the most peculiar characters I'll use Chekov as an example. Who the hell cares if Chekov is 17? That's about how old he was in the original series.

Sure by TNG-era standards Chekov wouldn't even be an Ensign and that casting/writing for TOS was all kinds of mess compared today, so they made the movie so it would work. If you don't like their explanation, that's fine, it's your opinion, but your basis for being correct is the questionable nature of TOS itself.

I think you misunderstand me. I don't have any problem at all with the age of the characters; I'm sure one of the goals for the reboot was to have a young attractive crew and, hey, fine by me. My problem is that the writers apparently tried to rationalize this by having everyone be incredibly brilliant, which I think is over the top and unnecessary.

FnordChan

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

And it's Old Spock that gives Scottie the formula for long distance beaming and tells Kirk how to get Spock dethroned. If Old Spock wasn't on that 'planet' the movie would be over.

Right, but we're speaking to the motivation of the characters and nitpicks. Within the context of the story, you could have easily written a "Spock escapes sequence" that would have allowed the movie to continue. But from a writing stand point, Nero waiting 25 years to capture Spock so he can make him watch Vulcan being destroyed, then dropping him off on a planet somewhere is kind of silly.

 

[The Librarian]

Right, but we're speaking to the motivation of the characters and nitpicks. Within the context of the story, you could have easily written a "Spock escapes sequence" that would have allowed the movie to continue. But from a writing stand point, Nero waiting 25 years to capture Spock so he can make him watch Vulcan being destroyed, then dropping him off on a planet somewhere is kind of silly.

Actually Nero dropped Spock on the planet first, then destroyed Vulcan.

 

[Dan]

Right, but we're speaking to the motivation of the characters and nitpicks. Within the context of the story, you could have easily written a "Spock escapes sequence" that would have allowed the movie to continue. But from a writing stand point, Nero waiting 25 years to capture Spock so he can make him watch Vulcan being destroyed, then dropping him off on a planet somewhere is kind of silly.

Just saying that it's horrible writing all around.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Actually Nero dropped Spock on the planet first, then destroyed Vulcan.

Right. I know, that's my nitpick, just worded it wrong above.

Just saying that it's horrible writing all around.

Agree with you there. The sad thing was that they would make some nice references to TOS that would make me smile, and then they'd drop something stupid on us. It had me conflicted to say the least.

 

[The Librarian]

Just saying that it's horrible writing all around.

Isn't it from the same guys who wrote Transformers?

 

[Zabka]

Is it crazy to wait 25 years for revenge? No. Is it crazy to wait 25 years to wait for revenge when you don't have to. Yes. Is it crazy to wait 25 years to launch a plan into motion considering that you're in that place "by accident". Yes. There is a whole lot of that sequence of events that we have to take 'on faith' work the way that they do in order for the scenes to work the way that they do.

He has to arrive in the past "oh shit what year is it - blow these guys up... not because it makes sense, but because they are a Federation vessel that's here and even though we need to operate in this area of space for an unknown number of years - lets not take this ship so we can do what we need to do undetected". (and note, having the newbie kirk crew investigating the Kelvin showing up again, Kirk expecting to find his father, and ending up at the JJ beast ship would given way for more development and character growth then they did)

He has to research and devise the red matter drill weapons - "good thing we have a drill, hey lets drop red matter into the core of a planet"

He has to predict when Spock will show up - "hmmm... lets figure out when he's going to arrive and lets wait for him to show up so we can launch this specific attack"
... etc ...

I found that sequence of events improbable given what they were telling us.

You're overthinking it, and not in the "Just shut your brain off" way. You're looking for the movie to explain every little detail of everything, and that level of boring, unnecessary exposition would sink any movie.

They killed the Federation vessel because they were mad. Really really mad. They just watched Romulus get destroyed and got a mining ship outfitted with experimental tech to go fuck everything up for everyone. The Red Matter tech was developed by the Federation and used to save Vulcan from the Supernova that killed Romulus.

Dropping Spock off was kind of silly, but he didn't want Spock to die. He wanted Spock to live long and suffer.

Spoiler

Honk honk!

 

[Cmagus]

the only thing that really kinda got to me was the constant blue light on the screen I think they went a little overboard with it but other than that awesome film

 

[Dan]

Isn't it from the same guys who wrote Transformers?

And Eagle Eye! :lol

 

[The Librarian]

You're overthinking it, and not in the "Just shut your brain off" way. You're looking for the movie to explain every little detail of everything, and that level of boring, unnecessary exposition would sink any movie.

How would it sink 2001?

And Eagle Eye! :lol

Well, there's your answer for the crappy plot.

 

[MisterHero]

I think you misunderstand me. I don't have any problem at all with the age of the characters; I'm sure one of the goals for the reboot was to have a young attractive crew and, hey, fine by me. My problem is that the writers apparently tried to rationalize this by having everyone be incredibly brilliant, which I think is over the top and unnecessary.

FnordChan

That's what I was talking about. Chekov's 17; but they counter that by having him be a math prodigy? Why can't they do that? Is a person that knows, or can translate, several alien languages not brilliant? Scotty in the original continuity later went on to write engineering manuals for Starfleet. This Scotty was exiled to the space station because one of his theories didn't work out. Kirk still gets put on trial for beating the Kobiyashi Maru.

The Federation and starships like the Enterprise were all about science and exploration and was formed with the help of Vulcans, so wouldn't make some sense that the command crew would have some intellectual brilliance?

This is Star Trek. NOTHING is impossible in this universe. If people wanted hard science or epic exposition some of these posters should have quit back in the 60s.

 

[StuBurns]

How would it sink 2001?

You can't be serious? A film with zero exposition is your prime example of over exposition working?

 

[Zabka]

How would it sink 2001?

What? 2001 is the best example of a movie not needing to explicitly explain everything that happened. I'm not sure what you're asking for.

 

[The Librarian]

What? 2001 is the best example of a movie not needing to explicitly explain everything that happened. I'm not sure what you're asking for.

Well, you said any movie. ;p

 

[xbhaskarx]

So in the world of Star Trek, a black hole and a wormhole are the same thing?

 

[Dan]

The Federation and starships like the Enterprise were all about science and exploration and was formed with the help of Vulcans, so wouldn't make some sense that the command crew would have some intellectual brilliance?

Of course, but there's a difference between having "some intellectual brilliance" and being prodigies immediately smarter and more capable than everyone else the Federation has available. That's not very interesting at all.

 

[laserbeam]

Chekov was always meant to be rather brilliant and in the TV show he was kept rather serious as far as character goes besides his comments on thing being said by russians etc when it wasnt. It was the movies that introduced the somewhat goofy Chekov which wasnt so bad.

For this movie we get the best of both worlds a smart and serious Chekov who also has the comedic aspect. I think I actually like this Chekov more because they didnt do one or the other they let him have the best of both aspects.

 

[BorkBork]

My major nitpicks:

There is a shortage of brigs or locks in this Trek universe. Instead each side has to send their prisoners to icy moons for some wacky reason. Seems like a big waste of resources.

Vulcans continue to be douches and retards at every opportunity. Continuity from Enterprise I guess.

 

[Dan]

Chekov was always meant to be rather brilliant and in the TV show he was kept rather serious as far as character goes besides his comments on thing being said by russians etc when it wasnt. It was the movies that introduced the somewhat goofy Chekov which wasnt so bad.

For this movie we get the best of both worlds a smart and serious Chekov who also has the comedic aspect. I think I actually like this Chekov more because they didnt do one or the other they let him have the best of both aspects.

One character would be one thing, but Pike almost immediately replacing his senior crew with fresh graduates is another. It was laughable the way the senior xenolinguistics officer or whatever knew jack shit about Romulans so that Uhura got an immediate promotion.

 

[laserbeam]

One character would be one thing, but Pike almost immediately replacing his senior crew with fresh graduates is another. It was laughable the way the senior xenolinguistics officer or whatever knew jack shit about Romulans so that Uhura got an immediate promotion.

Well yeah I had issues with the Uhura character. She seemed like a whore to put it bluntly. Yeah she turned Kirk down but she was throwing herself all over Spock so easily.

Im sure the first thing Someone wants when they watch their world blow up is some touchy feely chick all over them

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

One character would be one thing, but Pike almost immediately replacing his senior crew with fresh graduates is another. It was laughable the way the senior xenolinguistics officer or whatever knew jack shit about Romulans so that Uhura got an immediate promotion.

While I agree with you whole heartedly, in Trek lore, the Romulans were cut off from the rest of the galaxy and haven't been seen by anyone as long as anyone can remember. So, it wouldn't be unexpected that the senior linguist didn't speak the language. The more important question is where did Uhura learn "all three dialects"?

 

[CharlieDigital]

Well yeah I had issues with the Uhura character. She seemed like a whore to put it bluntly. Yeah she turned Kirk down but she was throwing herself all over Spock so easily.

He was also her superior in the academy. It stands to reason that she might have a thing for that or she might even be attracted to his emotional aloofness.

 

[MisterHero]

Of course, but there's a difference between having "some intellectual brilliance" and being prodigies immediately smarter and more capable than everyone else the Federation has available. That's not very interesting at all.

It's very possible that in the age of the Federation and Vulcan influence, the crew of the Enterprise could be just better-than-average example of humans of the time.

For the sake of interest I guess the Federation really would be boring (and Spock as its posterboy), but that's what they are.

But then again seeing how well the movie is being recieved I doubt they're finding the characters boring.

Also to bluntly explain obvious shit to dumbass audience members. I groaned so hard at her "... alternate reality" line. :lol

No that was written to reassure ST canon babies

 

[Dan]

Well yeah I had issues with the Uhura character. She seemed like a whore to put it bluntly. Yeah she turned Kirk down but she was throwing herself all over Spock so easily.

Her sole purpose in the film was to be eye candy and to look worried while the men did stuff.

Also to bluntly explain obvious shit to dumbass audience members. I groaned so hard at her "... alternate reality" line. :lol For someone supposedly so smart, she's sure slow.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Well yeah I had issues with the Uhura character. She seemed like a whore to put it bluntly. Yeah she turned Kirk down but she was throwing herself all over Spock so easily.

Im sure the first thing Someone wants when they watch their world blow up is some touchy feely chick all over them

I think they were trying to establish that there was a prior relationship between them that developed over the three years at the academy. It was very vaguely hinted at earlier, but still surprised me a bit since it was out of character for them in the Trek that I knew.

Also, I guess the Pon Far no longer exists in this Trek either.

 

[The Librarian]

Spock's father marrying his mother because he "loved" her.

...

 

[radioheadrule83]

Well yeah I had issues with the Uhura character. She seemed like a whore to put it bluntly. Yeah she turned Kirk down but she was throwing herself all over Spock so easily.

Im sure the first thing Someone wants when they watch their world blow up is some touchy feely chick all over them

On the C4 program tonight Nichelle Nichols was talking about Uhura's kiss with Kirk -- it was one of the first interracial kisses on television. She was actually meant to kiss Spock, but Shatner practically demanded that it be Kirk...

In hindsight I kinda like how it harkens back to TOS' original intentions with regard to Uhura having interest in anyone on the crew

 

[laserbeam]

Spock's father marrying his mother because he "loved" her.

...

Well Sarek does make that very clear in TNG how much he loved Amanda. He basically just bullshitted spock when he said it was his job to understand humans.

On the C4 program tonight Nichelle Nichols was talking about Uhura's kiss with Kirk -- it was one of the first interracial kisses on television. She was actually meant to kiss Spock, but Shatner practically demanded that it be Kirk...

In hindsight I kinda like how it harkens back to TOS' original intentions with regard to Uhura having interest in anyone on the crew

Yeha i think out of all the changes its just the largest of them all in terms of character interaction. Shatner just wanted some of Nichelle rofl. It was also said they filmed a 2nd shot for the kiss that Shatner delibertly kept making weird faces to ruin the shot so they had to use the kiss.

 

[The Librarian]

Well Sarek does make that very clear in TNG how much he loved Amanda. He basically just bullshitted spock when he said it was his job to understand humans.

Hm. Forgot about that. Nevermind.

 

[Zabka]

While I agree with you whole heartedly, in Trek lore, the Romulans were cut off from the rest of the galaxy and haven't been seen by anyone as long as anyone can remember. So, it wouldn't be unexpected that the senior linguist didn't speak the language. The more important question is where did Uhura learn "all three dialects"?

Internet

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Internet

:lol
Of course! It makes perfect sense now.

 

[radioheadrule83]

While I agree with you whole heartedly, in Trek lore, the Romulans were cut off from the rest of the galaxy and haven't been seen by anyone as long as anyone can remember. So, it wouldn't be unexpected that the senior linguist didn't speak the language. The more important question is where did Uhura learn "all three dialects"?

RosettaStone!

She booked it on her Nokia while supping a Bud one night after her green roomy went home early with some random dude.

 

[Phoenix]

You're overthinking it, and not in the "Just shut your brain off" way. You're looking for the movie to explain every little detail of everything, and that level of boring, unnecessary exposition would sink any movie.

If by unnecessary exposition you mean having logical events that don't require additional explanation because they would be intuitive rational behaviors to people watching, then I agree with you. I don't think they have to EXPLAIN anything, the events just have to make intuitive sense. For example you don't question why Pike drops a crew of 3 onto the drill on the way to Nemo - it makes intuitive sense. You don't question why there are people in the drill - it makes (some level) of intuitive sense.

Its when you see things that don't make intuitive sense "why the hell would you have tiny walkways with no railings" that your have to turn your mind off. You say that they destroyed the Federation vessel because they were mad, really really mad. They were apparently not so mad that they would get the captain for questioning. They didn't get the information that they were really looking for (from a single individual who might not observed the ship) so they figured they'd just blow up the ship. That to me is not a rational response. What Kahn does is a rational response. You don't want to talk? Okay, I'll just keep torturing you guys until someone does. THAT scene makes sense. It doesn't make sense that your cargo manifest includes lifeforms for the purpose of extracting information. Need some information - wow that's incredibly convenient, grab one of those spine beetles from storage!

One of the reasons that Star Trek 2 works so well from a 'story' perspective is that you rarely if ever find yourself questioning why people are doing things. By and large the character's motivations make intuitive sense to you. Here there are many things that just don't make intuitive sense, they stand out and you have to suspend disbelief.

That said, we can change the line of this discussion because we clearly have two different levels of suspension here. There are some things that I will look at and say "hey that's odd" or "hey that's stupid" (like why there is a brewery in the middle of the Enterprise). There are things that go a little further and are just weird circumstance. "Hey, why would ejecting the warp core not result in the enterprise falling into the singularity since it has the gravitational pull of maximum warp... or for that matter why is that not having an impact on the ship sitting right on top of the event." Mentally I can write those off.

Its when you get an event or series of events which together are implausible and forced together in order for it to work that I have significant problems and Nemos whole plan is one of those things.

 

[BorkBork]

Hm. Forgot about that. Nevermind.

Tsk tsk. And you call yourself a Star Trek fan. "Sarek" was one of the great Picard episodes.

 

[The Librarian]

Tsk tsk. And you call yourself a Star Trek fan. "Sarek" was one of the great Picard episodes.

Haven't watched TNG in awhile.