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[Jarate]

This will be my last response to you because ou sound childish and argue as if you are one. I didn't say "my game sells better so it's better take that." You said people hate ADS and are sick of it. I just said there are 20+ million sales that say ADS is not crap and that it actually is good game design.

Also, aiming down sights, taking cover, and camping/flanking is more realistic gun combat than running around dual wielding and blasting people while jumping up and down and off platforms. Both are fun ways to play a game and they both have proven they can exist and should exist. You have a lot of growing up to do when it comes to perspective and debating.

G-GROW UP MY GAME SELLS WELL AMONG CONSUMERS SO THEREFORE ITS NOT BAD GAME DESIGN!

I WANT STARWARS TO BE AN UBER REALISTIC MILITRAY SIM LIKE CALL OF DUTY SO I CAN 360 NOSCOPE JUST LIKE A REAL SOLDIER

...Battlefield? These games have gotten faster but they still feel nothing like CoD.

The gunply playsexactly like cod, the only difference is team size and map size and vehicles. You take Battlefield and put it on a cod map and it plays exactly the same, you take COD and put it in battlefield and it plays exactly the same.

So yes, there are places where there's differences, but the general gunplay and pacing of the game are pretty much the same

 

[ElzarTheBam]

I have no idea what's happening anymore

 

[Coxswain]

...Battlefield? These games have gotten faster but they still feel nothing like CoD.

I think you have to take a really, really, really narrow look at the genre to think that modern Call of Duty and modern Battlefield are anything farther apart than, at most, next-door neighbors.

Personally I'd go with 'conjoined twins'.

 

[Kane Zakharov]

MY GAME SELLS MORE SO THEREFORE ITS THE BEST TAKE THAT!

Also, Star Wars is not a realistic military campaign, and to say that Battlefield or COD are realistic military sims is hilarious. You wanna argue that with Arma, then sure, but COD and Battlefield are not veryr ealistic. Remember, we are playing video games.

And Im not belittling anyone or anything, just stating undeniable facts. ADS cripples the skill ceiling in games. And while this may not matter to you, a lot of people do actually care about this stuff.

His response with how much those games sell is because you specifically pointed out how "a lot of people are sick of it and don't want it." Has nothing to do with being best or not.

To the bolded:

G-GROW UP MY GAME SELLS WELL AMONG CONSUMERS SO THEREFORE ITS NOT BAD GAME DESIGN!

I WANT STARWARS TO BE AN UBER REALISTIC MILITRAY SIM LIKE CALL OF DUTY SO I CAN 360 NOSCOPE JUST LIKE A REAL SOLDIER

Yeah definitely not belittling anyone or anything.

I think you have to take a really, really, really narrow look at the genre to think that modern Call of Duty and modern Battlefield are anything farther apart than, at most, next-door neighbors.

Personally I'd go with 'conjoined twins'.

You mean in terms of the gunplay?

 

[Jarate]

His response with how much those games sell is because you specifically pointed out how "a lot of people are sick of it and don't want it." Has nothing to do with being best or not.

To the bolded:




Yeah definitely not belittling anyone or anything.

Yep, totally belittling someone by disagreeing with them, even though he thinks that I need to "grow up" which is literally belitling me. But I dun give a fuck about that shit.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I think you have to take a really, really, really narrow look at the genre to think that modern Call of Duty and modern Battlefield are anything farther apart than, at most, next-door neighbors.

Personally I'd go with 'conjoined twins'.

Is Call of Duty hitscan still?

If it is, it and BF aren't even related. I'm fine with considering them next door neighbors, but they don't play the same in terms of player speed, player momentum, mantling, player health/gun damage, accessory penalties/bonuses, etc. Nevermind all of the other actual features that separate the series.

What I'm saying is that you can't just drop ADS into a game and it feels like CoD. That's factually incorrect. If the point is that devs are trying to copy the CoD formula, I can see that argument, but clearly ADS isn't the key to that, as there is still only one CoD vs a plethora of failures.

 

[Alex]

And, there you have it. ADS + crawl-walking is officially for hardcores and pros. Hipfire + movement... that's for casuals and noobs.

Yeah, I got a laugh out of that one. ADS is so prolific due to publisher lemming mentality (COD. COD? COD!) and console control scheme woes, not HRDCORE SQUAD ACKSHUN.

It's funny, I mean, with people wanting iron sights for that amazing, realistic, in-depth squad gameplay when everything on the market uses them and we haven't had a good squad game in eons.

 

[| Praxis |]

Give me a console shooter with ADS that didnt essentially turn into a COD clone. Yes there will be pc games where this isnt the case, but on consoles, this entirely true

Wait, you're now moving the goal posts. You didn't mention consoles and you specifically said "paced". I agree, a lot of console games are CoD clones, and most have moved closer to that formula, but you can't say Operation Flashpoint, Titanfall or any of the Battlefields are paced the same as CoD.

 

[DeaviL]

I didn't know this.

Isn't mentioned anywhere.

Suspect impeccable pulling info out of ass technique.

 

[Jarate]

Wait, you're now moving the goal posts. You didn't mention consoles and you specifically said "paced". I agree, a lot of console games are CoD clones, and most have moved closer to that formula, but you can't say Operation Flashpoint, Titanfall or any of the Battlefields are paced the same as CoD.

theyre not paced the same, but the gunfights all essentially turn into the samething. Who has the twitchier aim and gets the first shot off

Those games are basically COD BUT ON A HUGE MAP or COD BUT WITH MECHS but the movement speed and gunplay are all the samething, which considering we're playing a shooting game, is kind of important

 

[Coxswain]

Is Call of Duty hitscan still?

If it is, it and BF aren't even related. I'm fine with considering them next door neighbors, but they don't play similarly, at all, in terms of player speed, player momentum, mantling, player health/gun damage, accessory penalties/bonuses, etc.

See, this is what I mean. The gap between 'hitscan' and 'projectiles that move at the speed of actual bullets' in terms of effect on actual gameplay is, like... Too small to floss between, when you put it into the proper perspective and compare it to the full breadth of the FPS genre, and games that actually use projectiles in a meaningful way (say, Tribes).

 

[Spy]

I'm curious if the majority of those complaining about no ADS have ever played a Battlefront game. I hope DICE doesn't cave in to the pressure from the minority.

 

[Raiden]

Thats a good thing. Like he said there are no ironsights in Star Wars. Save that for Battlefield 5.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

I'm curious if the majority of those complaining about no ADS have ever played a Battlefront game. I hope DICE doesn't cave in to the pressure from the minority.

I'll be honest, I played the original battlefront and had a great time. My little brother and I bought the original Xbox just for battlefront 2. But ever since I got into console battlefield games, that's has become the only type of shooter I enjoyed, and I love it greatly. I love the ADS mechanic, the balance, the style of game. When hearing DICE was making a battlefront game, I was so excited to play a battlefield game with a Star Wars theme, but it seems like that style of game is not what we are getting. I changed to prefer ADS over hip fire, and that ruined my enjoyment for this game. I'm glad you guys get to enjoy this game for what it is, but my personal tastes changed.

Also, to answer a previous persons question, I am 27 and used to play counter strike in high school. I got away from pc gaming after my stint with WoW and never played a game on them since.

 

[Strider7]

Those games are basically COD BUT ON A HUGE MAP or COD BUT WITH MECHS but the movement speed and gunplay are all the samething, which considering we're playing a shooting game, is kind of important

So with your logic, one could argue that all games that don't utilize ADS are "all the same thing" in relation to each other. Personally, I don't think your argument holds any water. You don't like ADS for whatever reason, real or imagined, and then belittle those who were hoping to see it in the game.

It isn't a total deal-breaker, but I, like many others, were interested in the idea of a more tactical and realistic take on Star Wars. And yes, I did play the original Battlefront. But times change, and I'd like to see an evolution of the franchise, not the same old game with Frostbite graphics.

 

[Sou Da]

Thats a good thing. Like he said there are no ironsights in Star Wars. Save that for Battlefield 5.

Seconded.

 

[Mufausa The 3rd]

My only concern is that without ADS, we might not get tight controls on a controller.

The last TPS I played without ADS was Warhawk. I just don't want combat like that where its awkward as hell.

That might not be the best thing then. The game is gunna rely, heavily on Aim-Assist. Of which I am not the biggest fan of tbh. Those that play on controller on PC are gunna probably have massive aim-assist due to the lack of iron sights.

 

[Spacejaws]

I love Left 4 Dead.

 

[Kane Zakharov]

See, this is what I mean. The gap between 'hitscan' and 'projectiles that move at the speed of actual bullets' in terms of effect on actual gameplay is, like... Too small to floss between, when you put it into the proper perspective and compare it to the full breadth of the FPS genre, and games that actually use projectiles in a meaningful way (say, Tribes).

It isn't too small at all. In fact, it's been a total pain in the ass to snipe in BF4 because of the slow as fuck projectile speeds and quick soldier movement in the game. PDWs are garbage at range because they have specifically made their bullet projectile too slow to compete with assault rifles and DMRs. Of which have much higher projectile speeds making them very powerful at range. Suppressed weapons also get a penalty on their projectile speed, etc.

This is relatively the same with BF3 as well.

The Battlefield games also have more variables and mechanics to further differentiate their weapons such as having first shot multipliers, gravity values for each bullet type, etc that all contribute to the overall gunplay and the use of the ADS mechanic. There's more than one way to use projectiles in a meaningful way, Tribes is simply one example of that.

For Battlefront, I just see this as them reinforcing the notion that this isn't simply Battlefield with a Star Wars skin. It's pretty weird how some people had been mentioning the game sounding like one considering they already mentioned there are no proper classes nor squads in the game.

 

[Jarate]

So with your logic, one could argue that all games that don't utilize ADS are "all the same thing" in relation to each other. Personally, I don't think your argument holds any water. You don't like ADS for whatever reason, real or imagined, and then belittle those who were hoping to see it in the game.

It isn't a total deal-breaker, but I, like many others, were interested in the idea of a more tactical and realistic take on Star Wars. And yes, I did play the original Battlefront. But times change, and I'd like to see an evolution of the franchise, not the same old game with Frostbite graphics.

I have literally never belittled anyone in this thread. The idea that I have is asinine when literally people are saying "I need to grow up"

Secondly, this is not true in the slightest. TF2 and Halo are both games on consoles that play incredibly differently without depending on ADS. The gunplay and 1v1 fights become way different as you have much different movement options in these games.

The thing that ADS absolutely kills is movement options, which is an incredibly important part of any FPS. The only "advanced movement option" ive seen in a ADS game is drop shotting, which really isnt that skillful.

That might not be the best thing then. The game is gunna rely, heavily on Aim-Assist. Of which I am not the biggest fan of tbh. Those that play on controller on PC are gunna probably have massive aim-assist due to the lack of iron sights.

This game will msot likelyhave auto aim on consoles and on pc with controller users, but even with that, M+KB is still a massively better over an auto-aim controller.

Also, games on consoles without ADS play fine without auto-aim, TF2 played fine on consoles and is most likely going to be way faster and way more intensive then battlefront

Also games with ADS still have a lot of auto-aim with console shooters.

 

[17 Seconds]

I'm still excited for the game, but no ADS is definitely disappointing. If you don't like ADS that's fine, but I think a lot of people let nostalgia cloud their judgement when it comes to shooters. The reason ADS is so popular now is that it's good. People like it.

 

[RSB]

I'm actually OK with ADS in some shooters, but when pretty much every FPS has ADS, it gets really annoying, and sadly, that's exactly what's happening now with the FPS genre (on consoles)

Even Halo has that that shit now, and even if it is mostly (but not completely) cosmetic, it is still annoying. And yes, blocking half my screen when I zoom is really fucking annoying 343, especially when you don't include a classic scope option.

Oh well, there's always PC I guess...

 

[Anton Sugar]

It isn't too small at all. In fact, it's been a total pain in the ass to snipe in BF4 because of the slow as fuck projectile speeds and quick soldier movement in the game. PDWs are garbage at range because they have specifically made their bullet projectile too slow to compete with assault rifles and DMRs. Of which have much higher projectile speeds making them very powerful at range. Suppressed weapons also get a penalty on their projectile speed, etc.

This is relatively the same with BF3 as well.

The Battlefield games also have more variables and mechanics to further differentiate their weapons such as having first shot multipliers, gravity values for each bullet type, etc that all contribute to the overall gunplay and the use of the ADS mechanic.


There's more than one way to use projectiles in a meaningful way, Tribes is simply one example of that.

Yup. There is actually an insane number of variables to be programmed for each gun in Battlefield (or at least in BF3--I assume it's similar with BF4).

Thinking they're that similar is a pretty superficial read. They've gotten much closer in feel since Bad Company 2, but are still very different. Yeah, I guess if we compare it to Tribes or Planetside or even CS:GO, they have more in common with each other than they do the others.

 

[Jarate]

I'm still excited for the game, but no ADS is definitely disappointing. If you don't like ADS that's fine, but I think a lot of people let nostalgia cloud their judgement when it comes to shooters. The reason ADS is so popular now is that it's good. People like it.

Nickelback has sold more copies then King Crimson, making Nickelback a much better basis for music then King Crimson!

Its popular so it must be good!

 

[Mullah88]

Man if it has that socom strafe battle, I will be in heaven! Glad it'll not have ads in 3rd person view, wonderful news

 

[Coxswain]

It isn't too small at all. In fact, it's been a total pain in the ass to snipe in BF4 because of the slow as fuck projectile speeds and quick soldier movement in the game. PDWs are garbage at range because they have specifically made their bullet projectile too slow to compete with assault rifles and DMRs. Of which have much higher projectile speeds making them very powerful at range. Suppressed weapons also get a penalty on their projectile speed, etc.

Sorry, but that's bullshit. Having to lead your shots a little bit and account for a tiny bit of bullet drop is fucking n o t h i n g compared to basically anything that happens in Tribes or Q3 or UT2k4, when you're talking about 'differences between this and Call of Duty'.

You might as well be trying to sell me on "color" being a totally different word from "colour" when the conversation is about "how much difference there is between all the words in the English language".

 

[soulassssns]

G-GROW UP MY GAME SELLS WELL AMONG CONSUMERS SO THEREFORE ITS NOT BAD GAME DESIGN!

I WANT STARWARS TO BE AN UBER REALISTIC MILITRAY SIM LIKE CALL OF DUTY SO I CAN 360 NOSCOPE JUST LIKE A REAL SOLDIER



The gunply playsexactly like cod, the only difference is team size and map size and vehicles. You take Battlefield and put it on a cod map and it plays exactly the same, you take COD and put it in battlefield and it plays exactly the same.

So yes, there are places where there's differences, but the general gunplay and pacing of the game are pretty much the same

Hold up! When did COD fall under the "UBER REALISTIC MILITARY SIM" category? LOL

 

[Diablohead]

no ADS, that I can get behind.

 

[DeaviL]

I'm still excited for the game, but no ADS is definitely disappointing. If you don't like ADS that's fine, but I think a lot of people let nostalgia cloud their judgement when it comes to shooters. The reason ADS is so popular now is that it's good. People like it.

It's not like people have a variety of games without ADS to prove that people flock to ADS because it's good.
I'm surprised that everytime "no ADS" is said we have people coming out saying that ADS is simply the better option.
It is a different option, it isn't a "better" option.

 

[GrizzNKev]

G-GROW UP MY GAME SELLS WELL AMONG CONSUMERS SO THEREFORE ITS NOT BAD GAME DESIGN!

I WANT STARWARS TO BE AN UBER REALISTIC MILITRAY SIM LIKE CALL OF DUTY SO I CAN 360 NOSCOPE JUST LIKE A REAL SOLDIER



The gunply playsexactly like cod, the only difference is team size and map size and vehicles. You take Battlefield and put it on a cod map and it plays exactly the same, you take COD and put it in battlefield and it plays exactly the same.

So yes, there are places where there's differences, but the general gunplay and pacing of the game are pretty much the same

No





No



No

I can't even tell if you're arguing for or against ADS but that's factually incorrect.

 

[Strider7]

Nickelback has sold more copies then King Crimson, making Nickelback a much better basis for music then King Crimson!

Its popular so it must be good!

You keep missing their point. You implied earlier that the majority of players are tired of ADS mechanics. By citing the high volume of sales these games get, they are showing you that contrary to your belief, there is a demand for it.

 

[TI82]

Nickelback has sold more copies then King Crimson, making Nickelback a much better basis for music then King Crimson!

Its popular so it must be good!

Or you could say "Nickelback has sold a good amount of albums, meaning some people like them. Some people also like King Crimson. Why not let both people listen to their own music and not force the others to listen to eachothers music?"

Man, some people in this thread.

 

[Jarate]

No





No



No

I can't even tell if you're arguing for or against ADS but that's factually incorrect.

http://youtu.be/P3ALwKeSEYs

Or you could say "Nickelback has sold a good amount of albums, meaning some people like them. Some people also like King Crimson. Why not let both people listen to their own music and not force the others to listen to eachothers music?"

Man, some people in this thread.

Im not forcing anone to do anything or prefer anything, but its an undeniable fact that King Crimson is a better music experience then Nickelback.

I have yet to tell anyone that they shouldnt enjoy ADS, just that ADS is a bad game design decision.

You keep missing their point. You implied earlier that the majority of players are tired of ADS mechanics. By citing the high volume of sales these games get, they are showing you that contrary to your belief, there is a demand for it.

Theres demands for it from casual gamers who literally only play cod or battlefield. There is a pushback from people who are sick of it being in every game nowadays when it's not that good of a game mechanic in a general sense.

The majority of hardcore gamers are sick of it, and really thats why a lot of people are excited about this game not having ironsights

 

[Spy]

I'll be honest, I played the original battlefront and had a great time. My little brother and I bought the original Xbox just for battlefront 2. But ever since I got into console battlefield games, that's has become the only type of shooter I enjoyed, and I love it greatly. I love the ADS mechanic, the balance, the style of game. When hearing DICE was making a battlefront game, I was so excited to play a battlefield game with a Star Wars theme, but it seems like that style of game is not what we are getting. I changed to prefer ADS over hip fire, and that ruined my enjoyment for this game. I'm glad you guys get to enjoy this game for what it is, but my personal tastes changed.

Also, to answer a previous persons question, I am 27 and used to play counter strike in high school. I got away from pc gaming after my stint with WoW and never played a game on them since.

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I was looking forward to Battlefront being a reskinned Battlefield game but now instead of looking at it as a first person game, I look at it as a TPS (because who played it in FPS on console? lol).

Call of Duty as my FPS and Battlefront as my TPS.

 

[MiguelItUp]

I'm okay with ADS if the game totally revolves around precision. Battlefront never needed it before, it doesn't need it now. Can't wait.

 

[VibratingDonkey]

That's good, in theory. I like Battlefield and ADSing, but beyond adhering to the same general scope and scale, Battlefront should strive to be its own thing, more Star Warsy.

 

[TI82]

Im not forcing anone to do anything or prefer anything, but its an undeniable fact that King Crimson is a better music experience then Nickelback.

I have yet to tell anyone that they shouldnt enjoy ADS, just that ADS is a bad game design decision.

Clearly you aren't going to be reasonable in this discussion so goodbye.

 

[DeaviL]

Or you could say "Nickelback has sold a good amount of albums, meaning some people like them. Some people also like King Crimson. Why not let both people listen to their own music and not force the others to listen to eachothers music?"

Man, some people in this thread.

Well, they've announced that i can listen to no ADS music.
Why do so many people want to stick ADS into my favorite sounds?

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Holy crap this thread.


Battlefront is meant to be played in third person so a simple over the shoulder zoom is all that's required.

 

[TI82]

Well, they've announced that i can listen to no ADS music.
Why are do so many people want to stick ADS into my favorite sounds?

Why not have options? You can have the option of if you want ADS or not.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

Holy crap this thread.


Battlefront is meant to be played in third person so a simple over the shoulder zoom is all that's required.

You are correct. The type of game the old battlefront was is best played as a TPS. But me, amongst a lot of other people, thought a dice developed battlefront game would be a star wars battlefield game. Today's news just tossed that out the window and it's kind of disheartening for the people who really wanted that game.

 

[Spacejaws]

Or you could say "Nickelback has sold a good amount of albums, meaning some people like them. Some people also like King Crimson. Why not let both people listen to their own music and not force the others to listen to eachothers music?"

Man, some people in this thread.

But if the composition of a King Crimson release was altered to appeal to Nickleback fans... I'd imagine there would be a very special spot in Hell for that person.

 

[DeaviL]

Why not have options? You can have the option of if you want ADS or not.

You have options.
for example, you can buy a different game.

You are correct. The type of game the old battlefront was is best played as a TPS. But me, amongst a lot of other people, thought a dice developed battlefront game would be a star wars battlefield game. Today's news just tossed that out the window and it's kind of disheartening for the people who really wanted that game.

And completely awesome news if you wanted a Battlefront game.

 

[Jarate]

Clearly you aren't going to be reasonable in this discussion so goodbye.

And clearly you are not willing to argue against any of my points

Ive had so much outrage over my posts yet literally Ive had 1 post explaining why ADS might create a single situation that is better then non ads, which was severely shown to be not quite true. Everyone else has literally not made a single point beyond, I like ADS therefore its good!

I like COD and Battlefield, I think those games are fun, especially Battlefield, but ADS is not a good mechanic to be in every game.

 

[Coxswain]

Holy crap this thread.


Battlefront is meant to be played in third person so a simple over the shoulder zoom is all that's required.

It would be the best piece of pitch-black humour in the world if they went to the trouble of announcing that the game wouldn't have iron sights, only for it to turn out that the exact same button performs the exact same function as iron sights, with the only difference being that when you zoom in and get slowed down to an infant's crawl, a gun model is not actually rendered in the foreground.


It would almost be better than if the game was actually good.

 

[THEaaron]

TBH Valve's approach is completely different than console game makers. They embrace and support the competitiveness with tournies, prize money, and stimulate a game's population with well thought ingame economies. CSGO was a dying game before the skins update.

Csgo was far away from dying. Faaaar away. Even with only 30k peak players you'll have a warm seat in the steam top 10 charts.

 

[TI82]

You are correct. The type of game the old battlefront was is best played as a TPS. But me, amongst a lot of other people, thought a dice developed battlefront game would be a star wars battlefield game. Today's news just tossed that out the window and it's kind of disheartening for the people who really wanted that game.

Yeah, I was pretty excited to be able to control an AT-AT in a semi realistic (if they were real) fashion, ADS blasters like in the star wars COD mod, etc. But apparently that's not what we are getting this time.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

You have options.
for example, you can buy a different game.

You are very right. And I think that's what some of us are doing. I'm glad you got the game you wanted. I just wish I could've gotten the game I wanted, too.

 

[Angryharlot]

Good. Let people have one non shit shooter on consoles. You can quickscope everywhere else.