prag16
Banned
Was the Hayden Christensen rumor definitively debunked somewhere that I missed?
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Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]
- Thread starter inm8num2
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Was the Hayden Christensen rumor definitively debunked somewhere that I missed?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It was never properly supported in the first place. It began as total horseshit, and was forgotten as such until just now.
prag16
Banned
MSW should be careful about what they post then, with the credibility they've gained. They probably shouldn't have mentioned it at all if it's definitely bullshit. (At least, you're stating as fact here that it's definitely bullshit.)
Lights and Waves
Member
The hostility in this thread is palpable. Jfc.
Grover Cleveland
Member
That Hayden rumor came straight from the mind of someone looking to troll prequel haters.
Not that I think it would necessarily be the worst thing they could do, but it doesn't seem to be a particularly necessary addition to make. And I think Disney will continue to give a wide berth to overt callbacks to the prequels in any form, unless absolutely necessary, especially one of its most controversial parts, Hayden's portrayal of Anakin.
Nah, this thread is WAY more civilized than that Final Trailer thread. There's only so many dead arguments that can kicked around over and over.
Not that I think it would necessarily be the worst thing they could do, but it doesn't seem to be a particularly necessary addition to make. And I think Disney will continue to give a wide berth to overt callbacks to the prequels in any form, unless absolutely necessary, especially one of its most controversial parts, Hayden's portrayal of Anakin.
Lights and Waves said:
Nah, this thread is WAY more civilized than that Final Trailer thread. There's only so many dead arguments that can kicked around over and over.
Well you made it out to seem like it was a fact, when it had been largely debunked already to be fair.
graffix13
Member
I....I...don't know what I will do.
Ha, actually I'm ok with that. I figure he'll get his Obi-Wan moment in 8 or 9...and that's cool. I actually would like to see that.
That's not true. My actual first preference is to see him ride his sand speeder off into the Tatooine sunset(s). But that's probably not happening so I'm good with the Obi-Wan reenactment.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Well, it can't be the easiest balancing act to pull off for them: They're pretty big now, and with that size comes an expectation that there's GOING to be daily content. Some days that means you have to repost shit you otherwise wouldn't, and that means dealing with a percentage of the readership that doesn't really read, so they're not paying attention to any qualifiers you're placing in your posts, yunno?
Plus, some of the writers there aren't the greatest when it comes to having a BS detector, and sometimes their speculation isn't very well-thought-out. And so their (mostly good) reputation ends up biting 'em in the ass because people just default to "Well, it came from MSW, so it's gotta be true" whether or not what they're reporting is even a thing they believe in.
You being told you're wrong isn't hostile in and of itself. It's not like I called you names or maligned your intelligence or anything. Just letting you know the things you said are inaccurate, is all. No hostility involved.
Spiritreaver
Member
prag16
Banned
Is that fact, or is that speculation? (Not that it wouldn't be likely speculation.)
If that's the case, I approve. I'm not in the prequel hater camp, and the hate is often very absurd and hyperbolic (including on gaf). I like me some good "prequel hater" trolling entertainment from time to time.
So if that Hayden rumor was explicitly created as a way to troll prequel haters, they succeeded. The bitching and moaning that followed was entertaining.
Grover Cleveland
Member
Yep.
Finn
I mean, if you want to be technical, even if Rey is Luke's kid and Kylo Ren is Han/Leia's, they're both Skywalkers...
distantmantra
Member
I never picked up Rey's accent in the US trailer. Super prominent in the new Japanese one.
Liquidsnake
Banned
I want to name my son Skywalker so bad.
I'm used to black people being slighted but I expected better from Lucasfilm on this.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Typo. Yea I know LA is dead.
How is he being slighted if Rey is indeed the main lead of the film? He has a major role no matter what, but that doesn't mean this isn't Rey's adventure mainly.
Let's not forget it is Rey who saves the day and fights Kylo Ren after Finn gets his ass handed to him, and it is Rey who finds Luke at the end.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The American trailers have already highlighted how his story is a parallel track with hers. And you know it is. She's the one likely tied into the Skywalker saga, but where the American marketing is presenting the overall story of the film as equal parts Rey, Finn, and Kylo's, the Japanese marketing is making it a point to reduce the entirety of the film's story to "Rey vs. Kylo" which absolutely short shrifts Finn's character, and is also inaccurate as a sum-up of the story.
It's not hard to see. For Japan, the movie is the story of a girl and her droid (it's not even her droid) going on an adventure to find her family. But that's not why she goes on her adventure. And Kylo Ren isn't even all that concerned with her as a person until much later in the film.
Granted, you could argue that it's not THAT malicious as they only have so many words to summarize the film. But there's definitely a shape to the marketing that is highlighting certain aspects of the movie at the expense of others based on demographics.
I think Finn is very very central to this story. And will have a parrell adventure and growth. Just like Han & Leia was A New Hope. But him acting as more of a merged Han/Leia sort of character in terms of presence and importance. But I see it being set up as Rey being the Luke of the trilogy. The key character that anchors the entire trilogy.
You and I both know non-spoiler types are going to get a bit annoyed and complain when it turns out Finn gets his ass handed to him by Kylo and Rey is the one to save the day.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't think they will at all. I think you can only make that complaint without the context of the film filling in all the gaps, analyzing it as nothing more than the series of plot points it currently sits as.
The characterization is going to make a fucking WORLD of difference, and Rey may be the tie back to Luke Skywalker directly, ultimately, but it really seems like Finn is going to be this film's heart.
It's the internet, expecting reactions to be rational...just won't happen.
You'll see a decent number of people in this forum complain in a very irrational gut reaction sort of way that Rey is the one to take it to Kylo after setting up in their mind that Finn was going to kick ass with the saber. I am sure of it.
Though I am more curious how the lack of Luke will play online with non-spoiler types once the film opens. Especially ones rationalizing Luke must be Kylo since in their mind there is no way Luke is not a main lead of the movie. The review thread here for those who were oblivious to the story beats is going to be really interesting to read.
distantmantra
Member
Regardless of a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, makes me wonder who her parents are and how she developed it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
And other people will argue against that. And I believe the latter will outnumber the former considerably if it's executed correctly.
The fact someone is going to dislike it isn't proof of anything but basic human nature.
For as frustrating as conversation on OT side can be, there's a lot of people who actually DO think before they post. And provided the context of an entire movie as opposed to simply digesting plot-points from a pdf, I think a lot of them are going to realize that Finn's character isn't just some sort of jobber to Rey's.
But it's also hard not to argue that this Japanese trailer/description isn't minimizing him (and Poe, and even Han, honestly) for the sake of Rey, Kylo, and BB-8. And someone pointing that out isn't going to think any differently with "Yeah, but she's more important than him" as a response. That doesn't assuage anyone's fears - it feeds them.
Exactly this. Which is kinda sad considering how progressive Lucas is in this area to an extent.
That's my sticking point, why would anyone have any fears of this in the first place? Who cares if Rey is more important than his character or is more of the central lead of the trilogy? Why would that matter or be anything to fear? The inverse would be equally as true.
No one has seen Daisy Ridley is anything. She easily could blow our socks off here.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Why wouldn't they?
It's not like someone upset at Finn's being diminished is arguing that he needs to subsume Rey's screentime entirely. Just that if you're gonna cut him, don't cut him artificially. Don't chop his role up arbitrarily, or worse, for reasons that have everything to do with demographics and nothing to do with story fidelity.
People are gonna have fears that the Black lead in Star Wars is getting short-shrifted because it's a thing that's frequently happened in lots of other movies, and is still prevalent today. It's not like it's confusing or out-of-bounds to the point where it's befuddling. It's a large part of the reason Making Star Wars got so much pushback on their characterization of Finn as a bumbling dipshit. Nobody wanted to hear that John Boyega got hired solely to be a clumsy idiot. And luckily, we know that's not the case. He's not going to be perfect, and he's going to get flustered and panic, but in the same ways LUKE did in Star Wars. Same ways HAN did.
People care because it's a question of representation, and the marketing here in America is showing that representation fairly, and accurately to the story of the film, and that's reassuring (and also hype-building, check out some reaction videos if you think it isn't). Then seeing the marketing for other regions dial that WAY back because White Girls with Cute Robots Sells Better, it doesn't take one of Lucius Fox's bridging vehicles to make that cognitive leap.
Kitschkraft
Member
@Bobby Roberts you really hit the nail on the head with the "bumbling dipshit" thing. Hollywood doesn't throw us a bone often, so when they do, we want it to be done right without caveats, that's all. I've seen some of the same kinds of discussions regarding Black Panther on other forums, concerns I expect are coming from the same place.
From that spoiler pdf :
I think this sounds great. I don't feel like this reads as though Finn just gets his ass beat like some clown. Sounds like he bravely stands up to Kylo even if he loses. This reads as though Kylo beats Rey as well, but is either unwilling or incapable of killing her (This is a really interesting pivot, I'm wondering if Kylo actually wants to end her or if it's a Vader/Luke thing).
Of course, the compiler of the spoilers on that PDF may have taken some liberties with his/her write-up.
From that spoiler pdf :
I think this sounds great. I don't feel like this reads as though Finn just gets his ass beat like some clown. Sounds like he bravely stands up to Kylo even if he loses. This reads as though Kylo beats Rey as well, but is either unwilling or incapable of killing her (This is a really interesting pivot, I'm wondering if Kylo actually wants to end her or if it's a Vader/Luke thing).
Of course, the compiler of the spoilers on that PDF may have taken some liberties with his/her write-up.
I hate how everyone is in love about "Finn" getting his ass kicked when we dont even know how the fight is going to last. I think it will be more impactful that this ex- storm trooper stands up and fights a battle he knows he cant win, but nevertheless takes courage. That will be more impactful than rey just finishing a fight that has already started. She may not even fight long if Kylo is going to escape tbh.
The fact that people have this obsessive love for Rey is really irking me. I have love for both of them. Rey is the central hero...but she is not going to be the only one to save the Galaxy because she is maybe a skywalker or a girl.
Also it seems to be only 2 groups in this community:
1.Rey has to save the Universe and be the only Jedi(idk why people just want 1 jedi again)
2. Finn is just a plot device who helps become a hero
But some can see that they both can share the hero role just as well with all the characters. But this one gets overlook a lot. many people in the star wars community keeps saying that its not a race scene but tell me how many big Sci -Fi movies has a black lead( male or female) been involved in, to the some but small roles where we have already had movies with female leads.
I hope that Rey & Finn become Jedi as well as a few others which has been hints with more lead characters auditioning in the next 2 films
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I think it's also important to remember there's two more movies to come. Luke wasn't a Jedi in Star Wars. Hell, he wasn't really a Jedi in Empire, either, although he could kinda use the Force.
The idea there can only be one force-user in this movie is a weird narrative the fandom's just kinda picked up and run with, and I don't know why. Finn AND Rey can both be force users. It doesn't break Star Wars for that to be the case. There's no reason to not even consider it.
The idea there can only be one force-user in this movie is a weird narrative the fandom's just kinda picked up and run with, and I don't know why. Finn AND Rey can both be force users. It doesn't break Star Wars for that to be the case. There's no reason to not even consider it.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
If you're just reading the plot outline for ANH, Luke seems like a chump in that movie until he fired the final shot in the Death Star.
and then he got beat up by a Ice monster in the opening, clowned on by a puppet for most of the movie, only to rush off and get his ass kicked, hand cut off, and then emotionally devastated by Darth Vader in Empire.
and then he got beat up by a Ice monster in the opening, clowned on by a puppet for most of the movie, only to rush off and get his ass kicked, hand cut off, and then emotionally devastated by Darth Vader in Empire.
Exactly! because at the end of it I hope that a new jedi academy is going to be created by the Saga's end but for the new generation. Cant be only 1 skywalker per generation at a time.
I'm pretty sure Boyega is a Force user in some capacity. The marketing is playing him up using the lightsaber which is obviously attached to the Jedi. I still don't completely believe that thing about Stormtroopers having lightsaber training unless it's implied that they're Force potentials because otherwise lightsabers are shitty weapons without Force abilities. It's like bringing a sword to a gunfight.
He's getting questions in interviews about how it feels being the first 'black' Jedi for many younger generations and if it turns out he's not Force capable, I expect there is going to be a huge backlash from many people.
He's getting questions in interviews about how it feels being the first 'black' Jedi for many younger generations and if it turns out he's not Force capable, I expect there is going to be a huge backlash from many people.
As long as the movie is good and his character arc is solid does it matter in the end? That backlash would be just as much nonsense as much of the prequel backlash for the story not matching the one they had in their heads when hyping it up.
All the saber stuff in the trailer feels like it is is just a big mis-direction so when Rey saves the day it is an unexpected and exciting surprise. I do think he is a force user though.
Just not much use at all against Kylo and will get his ass kicked, much like Luke circa ANH would as well. I can see him training and being able to take Kylo on in 8.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Of course it matters. If it's a matter of representation (and it is) his character being blatantly misrepresented in the marketing absolutely matters. That's kind of the whole point.
You show him in the trailers/posters/commercials holding Luke's lightsaber (and he's the only one ever being shown with it) and people are going to think he's a Jedi. If he's not at all force sensitive, some people are going to be upset at the misrepresentation. Especially if the reasoning behind the representation was to more or less misdirect audiences from the other person who eventually DOES pick it up to continue his fight.
People are suggesting we're only seeing him with the saber because it preserves the real surprise of Rey finally claiming it. Which might be - but that also (unnecessarily) misrepresents him at Rey's expense, which would absolutely, understandably, cause people to catch feelings. That's a case of production using him in a way that's not in keeping with how the story actually uses him.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
You can bet your ass if the black guy they've been hyping up as a hero jobs out so the pretty white woman can fulfill her destiny, niggas gon be pissed
Bobby Roberts
Banned
He's gonna fall, but he better be heroic every fucking step of the way up to that fall. He has to be the example to her to step her own shit up, basically.
People might still complain, but at that point, if he's the most relatable character, and the funniest, and the one with the most heart - him losing to Kylo Ren isn't going to mean as much. But if he fails out super-quick and is made to look stupid while doing it so Rey can get the W she likely hasn't earned? Then yeah, people are going to be angry.
A lot of this depends on not just how the story's set up, but whether it's executed well.
People might still complain, but at that point, if he's the most relatable character, and the funniest, and the one with the most heart - him losing to Kylo Ren isn't going to mean as much. But if he fails out super-quick and is made to look stupid while doing it so Rey can get the W she likely hasn't earned? Then yeah, people are going to be angry.
A lot of this depends on not just how the story's set up, but whether it's executed well.
As far as characters go. I think he will be the one people will be most excited for, once the movie ends. I mean he is the door and face to the mystery of storm troopers. Rey is following almost a predictable hero's journey. Which is why I kinda don't want either Finn or Rey to be related to the OT fam. And it looks like Rey is on that path. Don't be surprise if she goes to the dark side and back again ala predictable
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nah, I doubt she goes to the darkside. I think the big challenge for her is going to be the challenge Luke managed to get out of by actually redeeming Vader. She'll try to redeem Kylo, and it won't work. THAT's going to be interesting. What do you do when the person you want to save refuses to be saved.
Well I mean not completely but if feel she will go that route a little and Finn and friends will remind her of her goodness, cuz maybe Kylo persuades in some way.
You know "been waiting for her family" lol
Obi-Wan solved that problem.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Obi-Wan didn't solve SHIT.
COULDA solved that problem by putting a fucking saber through his burnt hot-dog-ass "brother" instead of crying at him and then walking off.
Instead he just made a really big problem and shoved it off on a farmboy completely unprepared for it.
Spiritreaver
Member
I really wish I wrote posts as eloquently as Bobby. Pretty much that's exactly how I feel about the Rey and Finn stuff. I wanted to argue it in the trailer thread when Cheebo was posting on the subject there, but I'm not very good at writing on the spot. (Most of my posts are pretty shit, honestly.)
I really hate that people make it seem like it has to be an either or scenario. Triumphing Rey as the lead as if it somehow trivializes Finn's story, or vice versa.
We were reaching posts in the International thread that were reaching close to trying to measure up the importance of a woman versus a black male. It was really depressing, but thankfully the discussion got sidetracked quickly as it was early on in the thread. It doesn't surprise me much though. Read any thread on GAF involving race, gender, and sexual orientation and you see some really sad posts.
That's not for this thread though and I don't mean to soapbox.
I really hate that people make it seem like it has to be an either or scenario. Triumphing Rey as the lead as if it somehow trivializes Finn's story, or vice versa.
We were reaching posts in the International thread that were reaching close to trying to measure up the importance of a woman versus a black male. It was really depressing, but thankfully the discussion got sidetracked quickly as it was early on in the thread. It doesn't surprise me much though. Read any thread on GAF involving race, gender, and sexual orientation and you see some really sad posts.
That's not for this thread though and I don't mean to soapbox.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I like that you called me eloquent exactly one post after I refer to Anakin as lookin like a burnt-ass-hot-dog, heh.
Thanks man.
Thanks man.