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[Rainier]

Last week I gifted a bunch of Steam games here, then the next day noticed this is the Steam Announcements... thread:

Mod Edit: This isn't a picture of the OP's account disabled, this is a picture from someone else from Reddit that got cross-posted into the GAF Steam thread. The OP here is using the pictures as an example of a situation that scares him.

Naturally, I was kinda freaked out, so I fired off a quick email to them:

Hi there!

Over the years I've bought a lot of Steam games, and often buy game packs to gift to friends. Today I gifted several games I still had sitting around, yet I just read online that your Steam account can be banned if you gift games to people overseas, which I have. Is this true? If it is, how can I avoid losing my seven year Steam account?

Hopefully something can be worked out.

Here's the reply I just got back:

Hello Rainier, Thank you for contacting Steam Support. You are able to to send Steam Gifts internationally. Please refrain from sending Steam gifts to unknown sources. If you have any further questions, please let us know - we will be happy to assist you.

So if any of you were also worried about gifting, looks like Steam still wants your business.

 

[Azih]

Have you been re-enabled? Also those are some pretty damn mixed messages coming from Valve.

 

[Huevos de Oro]

Awesome news. As someone who has been on the receiving end of GAF's overseas generosity, I will use this post to accurately convey my mirth and merriment, and also state that I'm looking forward to the opportunity of giving back some of the good that I have received.

 

[Rainier]

Have you been re-enabled? Also those are some pretty damn mixed messages coming from Valve.

Sorry I wasn't clear, that pic isn't mine, just one that was posted in the 'Steam
Announcements' thread. I'm guessing a fake, or the guy did some other bad shit to get banned.

 

[LiK]

what do they mean "unknown sources"?

 

[TheSeks]

what do they mean "unknown sources"?

People that are your friends in real life, I wager.

That said, I still wouldn't gift to internet people if Valve is banning over it.

 

[Diablohead]

what do they mean "unknown sources"?

non friends maybe? if someone was selling cheap games from their region constantly and sending them to email addresses, maybe that flagged their account to valve.

 

[Zzoram]

I still don't understand.

How did you get around regional pricing resulting in a temporary ban? So exchanging Steam gifts across regions is ok, but whatever you were doing to buy yourself gifts from a different region is not?



Oh, it's for people who basically become resellers. I guess if they notice someone gifting 50 copies of a single game cheaper in their region than other regions, they would suspect some reselling and not true gifting.

 

[Dead Man Typing]

I think it might be if they suspect you're running a business and making a profit off of gifting games internationally, then they'll shut you down.

If you're just doing it every now and then I think you're fine.

 

[Forkball]

The original picture came from some reddit thread saying he got banned for gifting across regions. Everyone in the Steam thread thought it was BS since they never heard of it before and international gifting happens on GAF all the time. So the noble Rainer sent an e-mail asking if international gifting was fine and Valve said yeah.

 

[yeoz]

From that screenshot:

If we detect further activity related to the bypassing of regional pricing or restriction on your accounts, they will be permanently shut down.

Accounts is plural. There was some speculation, that the guy had multiple accounts, and was using these accounts in multiple regions to buy himself games bypassing the region pricing. Doing *that* will get you banned. Don't do that.

 

[StuKen]

Classic Steam.

 

[Zzoram]

Classic Steam.

Clarify?

 

[StuKen]

Clarify?

Had Dawn of War 2 taken from by account for exercising my consumer rights to find the best value in pricing and the constant bullshit that a company with a virtual monopoly is allowed to perpetrate against consumers which morons blindly accept.

 

[Igo]

The email is legit though right?

Someone in that reddit thread brought up the brilliant idea of gifting from a dummy account you've set up. You might still have problems if Valve cross check the credit/paypal details between accounts though.

 

[Rainier]

Had Dawn of War 2 taken from by account for exercising my consumer rights to find the best value in pricing and the constant bullshit that a company with a virtual monopoly is allowed to perpetrate against consumers which morons blindly accept.

Huh, that post is about as clear as my OP.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Had Dawn of War 2 taken from by account for exercising my consumer rights to find the best value in pricing and the constant bullshit that a company with a virtual monopoly is allowed to perpetrate against consumers which morons blindly accept.

So is the complaint that you got gifted the game by some internet random to dodge regional pricing, and then the game got removed from your account, and the random didn't refund your money?

 

[Huevos de Oro]

Huh, that post is about as clear as my OP.

Heh. At least you got a mod edit in there.

 

[Rainier]

Heh. At least you got a mod edit in there.

I forgot about Valentines Day on Monday, gonna need to rent Stump as I got some explaining to do.

 

[StuKen]

So is the complaint that you got gifted the game by some internet random to dodge regional pricing, and then the game got removed from your account, and the random didn't refund your money?

No I purchased an overseas retail copy which was deemed unacceptable by either steam or thq. Regional pricing agreements don't supersede my rights as a consumer so they stole property from me. Since steam operates outside of my country and the cost to take any kind of legal action against them is far too much in comparison the damages cause its simply not feasible to take any kind of action. Little steps like that are all it takes and eventually they can quite happily flaunt any kind of consumer protection legislation.

But that's not something a monopoly would do though, Valve care about you, they're your friend. Right?

 

[firehawk12]

Had Dawn of War 2 taken from by account for exercising my consumer rights to find the best value in pricing and the constant bullshit that a company with a virtual monopoly is allowed to perpetrate against consumers which morons blindly accept.

B...b..b....but Steam based God and all that!!!!

 

[Glowingmonx]

Gifting =/= Selling

The guy on Reddit was selling loads of games to Europeans during the holiday sales.
You probably won't get banned for gifting games to a couple of people though.

 

[Wickerbasket]

No I purchased an overseas retail copy which was deemed unacceptable by either steam or thq. Regional pricing agreements don't supersede my rights as a consumer so they stole property from me. Since steam operates outside of my country and the cost to take any kind of legal action against them is far too much in comparison the damages cause its simply not feasible to take any kind of action. Little steps like that are all it takes and eventually they can quite happily flaunt any kind of consumer protection legislation.

But that's not something a monopoly would do though, Valve care about you, they're your friend. Right?

So you imported a game, without checking regional restrictions, and then complain about it?
Wouldn't it have been smarter to check first if there were any regional restrictions? A quick google maybe?

I don't like regional restrictions anymore than the next guy, and I wish they didn't exist, but if you're importing something from abroad it's only common sense to check what restrictions are in place.

 

[Rainier]

But that's not something a monopoly would do though, Valve care about you, they're your friend. Right?

Sounds more like a THQ issue, Steam has to honor publishers wishes.

Gifting =/= Selling

The guy on Reddit was selling loads of games to Europeans during the holiday sales.
You probably won't get banned for gifting games to a couple of people though.

I gifted about 40 games over 2 days.



Edit: 36 games. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=421545

 

[Huevos de Oro]

I gifted about 40 games over 2 days.

You belong into my Steam friends list. I'll even do the explaining in regards to that forgotten Valentine's issue, so you'll have nothing to worry about.

 

[iam220]

Of course you're allowed to gift across regions. The question is whether purposely circumventing regional pricing is allowed. Obviously using a VPN to do this is not allowed, but it's really no different than getting random Internet strangers from another region to purchase the game for you. Question is, if they can catch you doing so (not sure how they would) will they ban you? I think they will ...

 

[kswiston]

No I purchased an overseas retail copy which was deemed unacceptable by either steam or thq. Regional pricing agreements don't supersede my rights as a consumer so they stole property from me. Since steam operates outside of my country and the cost to take any kind of legal action against them is far too much in comparison the damages cause its simply not feasible to take any kind of action. Little steps like that are all it takes and eventually they can quite happily flaunt any kind of consumer protection legislation.

But that's not something a monopoly would do though, Valve care about you, they're your friend. Right?

Did you buy the key off one of those Russian sites that offers recent games at 80% discounts?

 

[StuKen]

So you imported a game, without checking regional restrictions, and then complain about it?
Wouldn't it have been smarter to check first if there were any regional restrictions? A quick google maybe?

I don't like regional restrictions anymore than the next guy, and I wish they didn't exist, but if you're importing something from abroad it's only common sense to check what restrictions are in place.

So you want to retroactively add regional restrictions to the pc platform to justify your tacit support for anti consumer practices?

Classic Stockholm syndrome.

It boggles me how we as consumers are so willing to put up uncritically the actions of big companies. They subvert your rights for the sole purpose or extracting wealth from you. You can argue that it might be a mutually beneficial relationship but with the likes of steam and any kind of centrally controlled drm scheme you are being locked into a quasi legal framework controlled by organisations who's concern most certainly is not your access to your past purchases but how they can further monetize their "relationship" with you. That morton's fork we didn't notice as we gleefully spent hundreds of euro on software ends up being very helpful to the companies now. The more you spend the more flexible you need be you to take the crap dished out, the same poisonous relationship as the drug dealer and the crackhead.

 

[StuKen]

Did you buy the key off one of those Russian sites that offers recent games at 80% discounts?

Does globalized capital only apply to industrial titans or should the individual need not apply and wait for the trickle down benefits?

 

[Wickerbasket]

So you want to retroactively add regional restrictions to the pc platform to justify your tacit support for anti consumer practices?

Classic Stockholm syndrome.

It boggles me how we as consumers are so willing to put up uncritically the actions of big companies. They subvert your rights for the sole purpose or extracting wealth from you. You can argue that it might be a mutually beneficial relationship but with the likes of steam and any kind of centrally controlled drm scheme you are being locked into a quasi legal framework controlled by organisations who's concern most certainly is not your access to your past purchases but how they can further monetize their "relationship" with you. That morton's fork we didn't notice as we gleefully spent hundreds of euro on software ends up being very helpful to the companies now. The more you spend the more flexible you need be you to take the crap dished out, the same poisonous relationship as the drug dealer and the crackhead.

Hey, I've already said I don't agree with it but they're well within their right to put region restrictions in place for their platform (steam). If you don't like their practices then you don't have to use steam, and since the PC is an open platform you have other options.

No one's being uncritical of steam. They're a company who works with publishers and it's in their best interest that they make as much money from the consumer as possible. That doesn't always line up with consumer interests so it's in YOUR interest that you do as much research as possible before buying a product so that you don't end up in situations such as yours.

Irionically, if you HAD done your research, you would have been able to have the game gifted to you from abroad and still made the savings. You really have no one to blame but yourself.

Just like to add that I've saved so so much more money since I started using steam sales to buy my games. Steam's been nothing but a positive for me.

Edit:

Does globalized capital only apply to industrial titans or should the individual need not apply and wait for the trickle down benefits?

So you bought from a site that sold stolen keys then cried about it? Oh please. Whine more.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Does globalized capital only apply to industrial titans or should the individual need not apply and wait for the trickle down benefits?

Yeah, in that regard consumers get majorly shafted. Big players can do all the gloablised trade they want but woe unto a customer who wants to ehngage in that kind of frivolous action.

 

[herod]

Valve's tendency to take your entire Steam library away BEFORE investigation troubles me a great deal.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

the problem here is that online digital purchasing is still very much uncharted economic territory. Different countries have different taxes, tariffs, exchange rates, etc., and the internet has no definite national boundaries to speak of. I can't say for sure who's right and who's wrong, except that this is an issue still hot in debate right now amongst world leaders.

There are some who've suggested that purely digital goods should be regulated and traded within a purely digital economy, an internationally agreed upon marketplace. Ultimately I think this may be the way to go in the next few decades.

 

[Nemo]

prices set by region

How bad is this stuff now? I remember this putting me off of Steam purchases a year or two ago since the Euro price was like 20 over the Dollar price. Is it at least 1$ = 1€ now?

 

[Prisen]

How bad is this stuff now? I remember this putting me off of Steam purchases a year or two ago since the Euro price was like 20 over the Dollar price. Is it at least 1$ = 1€ now?

Some games, at least during the christmas sale, sold for less euros than dollars. It's up to the publishers to set prices though, so you need to check on a game per game basis.

 

[Shiggy]

Does this also apply to Europe or are prices in Europe all the same, even with the low British pound?

 

[StuKen]

So you bought from a site that sold stolen keys then cried about it? Oh please. Whine more.

Quite a leap you're making there. Care to back that up?

My point still stands. Steam and their partners have on many occasions engaged in anti consumer practices especially in regards to the charge back problems. That is clearly not to he benefit of the consumer and does put out a very strong message that they are not to be fucked with lest the whole pie be taken back. They are using your own property as leverage against you. The more you are invested with their service the more hold they have on you with regards to eroding your rights. That is symptomatic of very large parts of the digital marketplace and with steam by far the biggest target in the pc games space they need to be held to the most scrutiny.

 

[Darklord]

How bad is this stuff now?

Some games cost $90US for Australia when they cost $50 in America and even less in the UK.

 

[Zzoram]

Some games, at least during the christmas sale, sold for less euros than dollars. It's up to the publishers to set prices though, so you need to check on a game per game basis.

This.

Steam doesn't set regional prices, publishers do. If publishers charge more on steam, it's because they want maintain some strategic local retailer partnership by giving their retail partners a price advantage.

Most gaming platforms to ever exist have had region restrictions on their games. It's not something that magically started with Steam.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Quite a leap you're making there. Care to back that up?

My point still stands. Steam and their partners have on many occasions engaged in anti consumer practices especially in regards to the charge back problems. That is clearly not to he benefit of the consumer and does put out a very strong message that they are not to be fucked with lest the whole pie be taken back. They are using your own property as leverage against you. The more you are invested with their service the more hold they have on you with regards to eroding your rights. That is symptomatic of very large parts of the digital marketplace and with steam by far the biggest target in the pc games space they need to be held to the most scrutiny.

Sure, care to provide the website you purchased said game from? I'd be more than willing to look into it for you.

As for your point, I don't believe you had one. You made a purchase from abroad without doing any research into whether the imported game would work in your country. That's pretty much your complaint and it's 100% your fault.

Everything else you've mentioned after the fact has been a different argument. I don't think Steam should have the right to take all my games away on a whim either, but I don't see what that has to do with your rage over your purchasing mistake.

There's a ton of things you could rail against steam for and I honestly think regional pricing is one of the fewer evils of steam. In some cases it's allowed me to be gifted a cheaper version of the game. However, I'm much more worried about their gungho attitude of suspending accounts without evidence.

 

[Zzoram]

The Dawn of War II thing confuses me. I know a while back a ton of gaffers bought on sale $7 DoW2 serial keys from the THQ UK website and used it on their American Steam accounts without problem.

Seems like this guy bought his serial key from somewhere fishy, because the official source, even cross region, worked for everyone else.

 

[Shambles]

Quite a leap you're making there. Care to back that up?

My point still stands. Steam and their partners have on many occasions engaged in anti consumer practices especially in regards to the charge back problems. That is clearly not to he benefit of the consumer and does put out a very strong message that they are not to be fucked with lest the whole pie be taken back. They are using your own property as leverage against you. The more you are invested with their service the more hold they have on you with regards to eroding your rights. That is symptomatic of very large parts of the digital marketplace and with steam by far the biggest target in the pc games space they need to be held to the most scrutiny.

This is why I don't spend much more than 5$/game on steam. Should something happen down the road I could happily walk away from them forever feeling like I got my moneys worth as very long rentals. If i'm wanting to buy a new game at near full price I'll buy it at retail.

 

[Nemo]

Some games, at least during the christmas sale, sold for less euros than dollars. It's up to the publishers to set prices though, so you need to check on a game per game basis.

Valve should intervene IMO. They already reject games if they feel the price is too high for the quality but they can't do this? Come on.

This.

Steam doesn't set regional prices, publishers do. If publishers charge more on steam, it's because they want maintain some strategic local retailer partnership by giving their retail partners a price advantage.

Most gaming platforms to ever exist have had region restrictions on their games. It's not something that magically started with Steam.

That doesn't mean they can't try and make things better, advancing the industry and all that. Also if I buy at retail because it's cheaper I always expect to play it without Steam, having it in retail but Steam exclusive is a pain.

If you are a budget game it's great because you can get sales from both Steam and Retail, but they need to unify things more and not set America as the standard all the time.

 

[Twig]

You asked the wrong question.

The dude was [allegedly] banned because he was gifting games with the express purpose of helping people bypass their home-country's more expensive prices. Not just for gifting overseas.

Not that there's any way Valve could really know people are doing that, unless the guy was advertising what he was doing and got noticed.

Valve should intervene IMO. They already reject games if they feel the price is too high for the quality but they can't do this? Come on.

And it's fucking stupid when they do. You really want them making even more stupid decisions?

 

[Nemo]

You asked the wrong question.

The dude was [allegedly] banned because he was gifting games with the express purpose of helping people bypass their home-country's more expensive prices. Not just for gifting overseas.

Not that there's any way Valve could really know people are doing that, unless the guy was advertising what he was doing and got noticed.


And it's fucking stupid when they do. You really want them making even more stupid decisions?

I want prices to be equal worldwide. That's stupid?

 

[Twig]

I want prices to be equal worldwide. That's stupid?

That's totally exactly what I said I'm so glad you've employed that valuable skill called reading comprehension.

what

 

[_Bro]

probably just looked like an account got hacked with credit card information and was being used to distribute games across the globe. probably looked like someone's "get it while i got this chump's stuff" event.

 

[Nemo]

That's totally exactly what I said I'm so glad you've employed that valuable skill called reading comprehension.

what

Uh. You quoted me, that was the point of my posts here, but you're right. Baby step me through this. What would "even more stupid decisions" mean then?

 

[Zzoram]

I want prices to be equal worldwide. That's stupid?

Prices are never equal worldwide. Movie tickets in the US are different than movie tickets in China. Heck, movie ticket prices are different between cities.

Capitalism, products are priced at what the local markets will bare. Places paying more are more affluent and subsidizing places paying less, which tend to have lower standard of living and lower wages.

 

[Twig]

Uh. You quoted me, that was the point of my posts here, but you're right. Baby step me through this. What would "even more stupid decisions" mean then?

I bolded part of it for a reason. Because I was RESPONDING to that part.

Hint: Valve have denied more than one indie game a place on the store because the developer's desired price was arbitrarily deemed too high. "It won't sell!" they say.

This is stupid, and has been proven wrong before. Din's Curse is a good example.

Why give Valve more power in that regard when they've already proven they can't - or won't - make the best decisions?

Sure, it sounds appealing at first glance - force all publishers to even out the prices across multiple regions - but what happens when a publisher doesn't like it, and decides to not even bother putting their game on Steam?