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[Visualante]

Thread doesn't seem entirely clear. (potentially due to mod interference?) I kind of feel like they should just remove international gifting if they're going to take this approach. They need to clarify what constitutes a ban for those of us who buy for other people regularly (I used to). I once bought Capndrake like £200 worth of games because the EU pricing was disproportionate.

I feel like I'll write to Gabe over this, I'm happy to take my business elsewhere if they're going to ban people for taking advantage of features they implemented.

 

[Nemo]

Not sure why you would call me on my reading comprehension when you only now explain why it would be a stupid move.

I bolded part of it for a reason. Because I was RESPONDING to that part.

Hint: Valve have denied more than one indie game a place on the store because the developer's desired price was arbitrarily deemed too high. "It won't sell!" they say.

This is stupid, and has been proven wrong before. Din's Curse is a good example.

Why give Valve more power in that regard when they've already proven they can't - or won't - make the best decisions?

Sure, it sounds appealing at first glance - force all publishers to even out the prices across multiple regions - but what happens when a publisher doesn't like it, and decides to not even bother putting their game on Steam?

Evening out prices is different from completely rejecting based on price. Steam is big enough to have the advantage with this. They have the PC power they need to enforce these things without much publishers pulling out. Where would they go to anyway if it happened? Other DD services? It would only improve Valve's image for sticking up for their whole fan base and both improve their profits (not immediately tho) and advance the industry, something these people seem to be big fans of. But Valve most likely won't even think about doing something like this because it would profit them only in the long run and not the short term.

The indie example also makes me think that they give these big publishers more leeway and are only assholes (and where they make their mistakes) against smaller devs. But if your game is good enough Steam is the best platform out right now. Acting like they know if a game would sell however is one of the stupidest things you can do. They should at least have the balls to admit later on when they were wrong.

 

[ghst]

my suspiscion was initially set by this snippet of an email i recieved from valve upon asking for my account to be region unlocked (some people have had success with this in the past):

i called this guy out in the reddit thread for the sketchy wording of the correspondence that at no point included the word "gifting" and suggested some nefarious international proxy/false information supplied on his part to buy games from other regions was the culprit. i suggested he mail valve expressly asking for gifting policy.

he declined this suggestion and expected me to take him on his word. i'm not new to the internet, stranger.

 

[Aon]

Places paying more are more affluent and subsidizing places paying less, which tend to have lower standard of living and lower wages.

You heard it here first folks, it turns out Australia is second only to New Zealand in our Luxurious Wealth.

Although with the power of the internet, we can now take this idea even further! When creating your SteamID, you will now be asked to indicate your income bracket and games will be priced according to what you can realistically afford.

To be serious, what this will realistically do to some Australian sub-communities is force us to shop at outlets like ozgameshop to circumvent the antiquated regional pricing, although some publishers are doing a better job these days, notably Ubisoft's equal pricing for AC: Brotherhood.

 

[Zzoram]

You heard it here first folks, it turns out Australia is second only to New Zealand in our Luxurious Wealth.

Although with the power of the internet, we can now take this idea even further! When creating your SteamID, you will now be asked to indicate your income bracket and games will be priced according to what you can realistically afford.

To be serious, what this will realistically do to some Australian sub-communities is force us to shop at outlets like ozgameshop to circumvent the antiquated regional pricing, although some publishers are doing a better job these days, notably Ubisoft's equal pricing for AC: Brotherhood.

Well there are other factors. Game boxes are manufactured in the US so shipping to Australia probably costs more than shipping to Europe. Since retail stores are affected by this overhead, the publishers make digital stores also charge more to not give them an advantage over retail stores. This way they can maintain the favor of retail stores.

 

[Twig]

Not sure why you would call me on my reading comprehension when you only now explain why it would be a stupid move.

Because you were apparently incapable of interpreting the fact that I bolded a part of the quote for a reason.

This is sad.

Steam is big enough to have the advantage with this.

I'm sorry, but that's completely and utterly wrong. In the end, it is the publishers who decide where their games go. Already, PC is not as profitable as consoles. If Valve forces them to make it even less profitable, they will leave entirely.

Since the entirety of your argument is based upon the already-addressed falsehood, I feel no desire or need to address the rest of your post!

 

[legend166]

My Steam purchasing will probably be cut in half if international gifting is removed. In fact, I'd be tempted to stop purchasing all together out of protest. I'd just import Steamworks games from the UK so I don't get completely rorted on the price. I'd also be lodging complaints with the Australian Consumer and Competition Commission and anyone else I can think of.

Regional pricing on digital goods is nothing but corporate greed. It's one of the best examples of an anti-consumer practice I can think of. There is no excuse for such a practice. The only additional cost in releasing a game in Australia as opposed to America over Steam is getting the game rated, which in the grand scheme of things is relatively minuscule. They don't have to put games on servers in Australia if they don't want to, and even then the cost is probably absorbed by the ISPs which host the servers.

The only reason they do it is because years ago they managed to bend customers over and they want to continue doing it despite the fact the market and the product (move from physical to digital) has changed dramatically.

I understand Valve wants to allow publisher's the freedom to do whatever they want, but I'd hope at this stage Steam is big enough that they can throw their weight around on this issue.

 

[Zzoram]

My Steam purchasing will probably be cut in half if international gifting is removed. In fact, I'd be tempted to stop purchasing all together out of protest. I'd just import Steamworks games from the UK so I don't get completely rorted on the price. I'd also be lodging complaints with the Australian Consumer and Competition Commission and anyone else I can think of.

Regional pricing on digital goods is nothing but corporate greed. It's one of the best examples of an anti-consumer practice I can think of. There is no excuse for such a practice. The only additional cost in releasing a game in Australia as opposed to America over Steam is getting the game rated, which in the grand scheme of things is relatively minuscule. They don't have to put games on servers in Australia if they don't want to, and even then the cost is probably absorbed by the ISPs which host the servers.

The only reason they do it is because years ago they managed to bend customers over and they want to continue doing it despite the fact the market and the product (move from physical to digital) has changed dramatically.

I understand Valve wants to allow publisher's the freedom to do whatever they want, but I'd hope at this stage Steam is big enough that they can throw their weight around on this issue.

It's not being removed. It's an acceptable practice. The people who have had trouble were probably using a proxy IP to try to buy out of region themselves, or were buying suspect/stolen serial keys.

 

[bj00rn_]

"Steam" can especially go fuck themselves because I was a loyal customer right from the start when there were no such thing as a "region" on the internet, AND THEN they jacked up the prices and started their region bullshit. I've since not bought a game from them again, never will.

 

[legend166]

It's not being removed. It's an acceptable practice. The people who have had trouble were probably using a proxy IP to try to buy out of region themselves, or were buying suspect/stolen serial keys.

That's why I said 'if'. It was a hypothetical statement.

 

[Red]

"Steam" can especially go fuck themselves because I was a loyal customer right from the start when there were no such thing as a "region" on the internet, AND THEN they jacked up the prices and started their region bullshit. I've since not bought a game from them again, never will.

But Valve doesn't set the prices.

 

[Castor Krieg]

This thread should be gifting vs. buying CD-keys overseas. First one is allowed, second one isn't. There are ways to bypass this, if you trust the seller then you buy the key in e.g. Russia, they will log into your Steam acc and activate it from Russia.

If however you buy Russian CD-key and activate it in, let's say, US or UK, then youre in trouble.

 

[Nemo]

Because you were apparently incapable of interpreting the fact that I bolded a part of the quote for a reason.

And again, that was not the point of my posts. I stated a fact, you replied with your opinion about that fact in your first part. I never responded to that part since I only stated that fact and that was never my main point. You did however expand your post by saying evening the prices would also be stupid. My question was entirely about the second part, which you didn't elaborate on until later. I interpreted just fine why you bolded that part.

You are right, this is stupid. At least you responded again to my main point, but it is just a guess. So this will go nowhere.

 

[Twig]

And again, that was not the point of my posts

That is why I bolded it. I was addressing a part of your post. Not the post in its entirety.

How is this so hard to understand?

 

[bj00rn_]

But Valve doesn't set the prices.

They operated for years without "regions", it's not like they had no say or choice in this. It wasn't the publishers that implemented "regions", it was of course Steam (Under pressure).. They are the owners of this platform after all.

 

[Nemo]

That is why I bolded it. I was addressing a part of your post. Not the post in its entirety.

How is this so hard to understand?

Because I never expressed my opinion about it, so I had no need to discuss it. Only my main point was I interested in to discuss further which I wanted elaboration on, not the first part.

 

[Twig]

I'm sorry I wasn't aware of the apparently unwritten law that says we can't have tangential discussions. IN THE FUTURE I WILL REFRAIN FROM DOING SO. FORGIVE ME, LORD AND MASTER.

They operated for years without "regions", it's not like they had no say or choice in this. It wasn't the publishers that implemented "regions", it was of course Steam (Under pressure).. They are the owners of this platform after all.

But they couldn't get those publishers WITHOUT the regions. That's why they exist. So more games would come to Steam.

It's so easy to get around them, anyway, I dunno why you're so upset. U:

 

[coopolon]

But we still don't know if they will ban you for buying a game in US, gifting to someone in another region as long as the person in other region pays you back for it. How they would catch you at this I don't know. But if they did catch you, I think they'd probably still ban you since it's still circumventing regional pricing, just in a more indirect manner.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to "sell" games, even for the price you paid, yet they must know a lot of us buy those packs and then sell off the extra copies.

 

[Nemo]

They operated for years without "regions", it's not like they had no say or choice in this. It wasn't the publishers that implemented "regions", it was of course Steam (Under pressure).. They are the owners of this platform after all.

Valve only got to where they are by ruling hard. They can keep doing it, and even do some good with it, but even with them business seems to go first.

 

[Zzoram]

They operated for years without "regions", it's not like they had no say or choice in this. It wasn't the publishers that implemented "regions", it was of course Steam (Under pressure).. They are the owners of this platform after all.

They operated for years with a much smaller catalog and no day-1 simultaneous releases before regions were implemented as well.

All 3 console platforms have regions and regional pricing too.

 

[Catshade]

But Valve doesn't set the prices.

They do set the restrictions.

All 3 console platforms have regions and regional pricing too.

But PS3 is region free...?

 

[Dorfdad]

Anyone have a Gift copy of Dragons Age Ultimate Edition to Gift me? I will of course Gift You A game or two of your choice. I have a few Borderlands editions for trade as well.

Dorfdad

 

[Twig]

Valve only got to where they are by ruling hard. They can keep doing it, and even do some good with it, but even with them business seems to go first.

They can also lose publisher support.

It's not rocket science.

 

[Nemo]

They operated for years with a much smaller catalog and no day-1 simultaneous releases before regions were implemented as well.

All 3 console platforms have regions and regional pricing too.

But they can be the first to advance all of these things if they are willing to put work into it.

They can also lose publisher support.

It's not rocket science.

It's isn't. But you always got to take educated (sometimes extreme) gambles to go forward. Losing publishers is the risk involved and you have to try and maintain good relations. It's not like the publishers are suddenly doomed because of it.

 

[Zzoram]

not offering products in certain regions may also have to do with regional customer support. maybe they don't have people who speak the local language or something

 

[legend166]

not offering products in certain regions may also have to do with regional customer support. maybe they don't have people who speak the local language or something

This is something more understandable than regional pricing.

 

[BloodySinner]

I'm not fucking gifting anymore if it means getting my account banned.

I gifted about 40 games

So have I. In fact, I gifted so much games during the Steam holiday sale, there was even non-GAF members who checked out the forum post and got in contact with me for gifting.

 

[Nabs]

I'm not fucking gifting anymore if it means getting my account banned.

There's no proof of that being the case.

 

[Zzoram]

I'm not fucking gifting anymore if it means getting my account banned.

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. Read the threat title. Gifting is allowed, no banning will result.

The people who got banned were not banned for gifting.

 

[Rainier]

There's no proof of that being the case.

The point of this thread was to post proof from Valve that you're fine gifting games, even overseas.

Edit: Bah, quoted wrong person.

 

[BloodySinner]

The point of this thread was to post proof from Valve that you're fine gifting games, even overseas.

If you meant to quote me, then okay. I just read over the post again. Your account suspension makes no sense to me.

 

[Twig]

It's isn't. But you always got to take educated (sometimes extreme) gambles to go forward. Losing publishers is the risk involved and you have to try and maintain good relations. It's not like the publishers are suddenly doomed because of it.

Right, but I'm not worried about the publishers. The world of gaming would be a better place if we didn't need publishers. I'm worried about Steam - and, by extension, possibly PC - losing the games I love.

 

[Nabs]

If you meant to quote me, then okay. I just read over the post again. Your account suspension makes no sense to me.

He didn't get suspended. Those pics are from a random/anonymous reddit user. He probably deserved the ban he got.

 

[Twig]

If you meant to quote me, then okay. I just read over the post again. Your account suspension makes no sense to me.

Mod Edit: This isn't a picture of the OP's account disabled, this is a picture from someone else from Reddit that got cross-posted into the GAF Steam thread. The OP here is using the pictures as an example of a situation that scares him

He didn't get suspended or banned or anything.

 

[BloodySinner]

Obviously I can't read properly it seems. That clears everything up then.

 

[Zzoram]

He didn't get suspended. Those pics are from a random/anonymous reddit user. He probably deserved the ban he got.

Probably. This is the internet, when people get banned, all they do is whine about how they didn't do anything wrong. They didn't hack, their brother did. They didn't play a pirated game, they bought it a month early at 7/11.

 

[Zachack]

But they can be the first to advance all of these things if they are willing to put work into it.

Why do they have to do it? Why can't you write a letter to your local government representative?

 

[Nemo]

Why do they have to do it? Why can't you write a letter to your local government representative?

Because it prevents people like me to buy directly from Steam unless there's a big sale on games I absolutely want.

 

[-viper-]

UK Steam sucks. The prices are so bad. There is only one game that I have bought so far and that is L4D2. £20 was hardly good value for it too.

PC games should be VERY CHEAP else I won't buy them. They have no resale value and retail PC games are often way cheaper than what I find on Steam.

Heck, I get better value from console games to be frank.

 

[Himajin]

I have never circumvented regional locks to buy a game cheaper, but I have done this on many occasions to buy a game simply not available in my region (which sadly applies to many of the games I want to buy, as EA and many of the Japanese publishers for example don't offer their titles in Japan).

This kind of thing worries me no end, as I know I'd technically be in the wrong if I got caught, and potentially locked out of my 300+ collection. Japan doesn't even allow Paypal transactions to private accounts, so I can't even go the gifting route...

 

[M3d10n]

Valve cannot accept non-international credit or debit cards from a region unless they set shop there, pay local taxes and abide to local rules. And I don't know about the rest of the world, but where I live the mast majority of people don't have/bother with international cards.

On top of this, publishers have free reign in deciding in which regions their games are available (including the "other" region), and at what prices. Since most publishers still make more money from retail (yes, even on PC games), they try to avoid pissing retail off by matching their game prices.

 

[Zachack]

Because it prevents people like me to buy directly from Steam unless there's a big sale on games I absolutely want.

Writing a letter does all of that?

 

[drizzle]

Valve cannot accept non-international credit or debit cards from a region unless they set shop there, pay local taxes and abide to local rules. And I don't know about the rest of the world, but where I live the mast majority of people don't have/bother with international cards.

Where do you live? The 80's?

Regions are bullshit anyway. I have an international card, I even get taxed on International Purchases by my government. The developer is getting their money, so what's the point?

I don't care about their local deals with local publishers, I'm not buying their local version, I'm buying the American version (or whatever). The "local" publisher doesn't have to move a finger to distribute the "virtual" version of the game. They don't have to manage inventory, they don't have to have a distribution chain, they don't have to do taxes management with the country to be able to distribute a international product in the country.

While every game has a Developers and a Publisher, the way i see things, when a game is up on Steam, Valve is the publisher of that game (because all the distribution of that game goes through Valve). Whoever "publishes" the game only has to send something with all files to Valve, and they will take over from there on. They will take care of the servers, they will make sure the servers are not overloaded, they'll make sure that transactions are being done properly. What does a publisher do when a game is up on Steam?

In conclusion, IP Geolocation is the WORST trend that happened to the Internet in the past decade.

 

[Burekma]

What does a publisher do when a game is up on Steam?

They allow it to be sold. And I think they deserve that right, considering they were the ones funding the games.

They also make conditions which are set in such a way not to anger any of their partners they still deeply rely on (a.k.a. the retailers). And thus regional pricing was born.

Being from Europe, I hate this bullshit as much as the next guy, but I do know better than to blame Steam, D2D, Impulse or Gamersgate for charging me about 35% premium over what it costs the Americans for essentially the same product. After all, it would be in their best interest to persuade me to buy from their store instead of retail.

 

[eiskaltnz]

Even with the region pricing (I live in New Zealand) I find steam is better then most of the other online stores (direct2drive, impulse, etc...). Even though the game might be $79 US at least there is the option to buy it with most other online stores having the game only available if you live in the US and Canada.

 

[mclem]

Prices are never equal worldwide. Movie tickets in the US are different than movie tickets in China. Heck, movie ticket prices are different between cities.

GoG sez hi. Or is that technically importing?

 

[Burekma]

GoG sez hi. Or is that technically importing?

Gog is technically selling old-ass games and are thus irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. They won't achieve price parity with new products, at least not until retail remains relevant.

You only have to look at their very own Witcher 2. They had to price it according to the 1$ = 1€ bullshit conversion ratio and then offer the difference as in-store credit. They couldn't just price match the US pricetag, because it would anger their distributing partners.

 

[kamspy]

Why does everything in the Steam TOS exist in a gray area?

 

[boen747]

It looks like the user used a VPN to gift to himself e.g he lives in EUROPE but uses a freshly made steam account to gift to his current account but he purchases from the USA store via VPN. why else would they put accounts as a plural ?

 

[jediyoshi]

Why does everything in every TOS exist in a gray area?

Lol lawsuits