Welcome to the joy that is the Final Fantasy community.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Stella has been removed from FFXV; Itamuro writing game; Demo 2 June 9; FFXV not @ E3
- Thread starter LiK
- Start date
Welcome to the joy that is the Final Fantasy community.
Liquid_015
Gold Member
I'm just answering the poster's question.
People thought she got yet another redesign. How wrong we were! And it was only for a short while anyway.
Even though people in here are confused I get exactly what you mean and I have the same problem. Maybe I'm weird but to me Luna just looks too much like a child while Stella looked like someone who I wouldn't mind looking at while she acts tough/fights. In Luna's care it will come of as cringy, especially if the voice actor isn't good.
This post is really weird, this is my response to it
This is another post-Versus XIII support group thread. People come to these threads to mourn what never was and never could be, find scapegoats (Tabata for the most part), and to convince one another that the past ~10 years resulted in something concrete enough to justify so much suffering. Everyone is desperately looking for a sign, something that can convince them to either let go or continue holding on, and the signals are all too mixed.
In these threads, everything is amplified and has an ominous air. Feedback is poisonous. Key developers are dirtbags and liars. And Stella was a self-confident goddess, whereas Luna is frail anime character #1024918.
It's understandable. I'm not nearly as excited for FFXV as I used to be, and it feels surreal. I would almost prefer the bitterness and disappointment I see around here to the numbness I now feel inside.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Kinda implies that Luna and Stella doesn't look that much different? Otherwise people wouldn't have thought they're the same character, just a slight redesign. By that virtue, if Luna is too anime, Stella is fairly anime as well.
encephalon
Member
I think what's worrisome about Luna isn't just that she's replacing Stella, but that she's replacing her under Tabata. If they can suddenly no longer fit one of the most important characters in the game, that's alarming enough. Why? Does it reveal a fundamental change for the game's ultimate direction and its mythology?
Then there's also a Tabata. After presumably having a meeting and discussing player comments, they found it contradictory that players might want a female character but also complained that Cindy was over the top. What limited purpose can female characters serve under Tabata's direction? It leads me to think back on Rem with a more critical eye and wonder what's in store for Luna. The former was clearly intended to inspire "protective" feelings from the player.
Then there's also a Tabata. After presumably having a meeting and discussing player comments, they found it contradictory that players might want a female character but also complained that Cindy was over the top. What limited purpose can female characters serve under Tabata's direction? It leads me to think back on Rem with a more critical eye and wonder what's in store for Luna. The former was clearly intended to inspire "protective" feelings from the player.
That Dude John
Member
Why do they look similar anyways? Why isn't Luna's design more overtly different from Stella's?
Well, it's not like Nomura is known for having created "strong" female characters....
encephalon
Member
Would she have been nomura's character or nojima's? It's Nojima's departure that bothers me.
Well, that was Toriyama's decision, as far as I know...
chozen
Member
This post is really weird, this is my response to it
In comparison to Kingdom hearts, yes trying to claim DMC is less linear than a KH game is quite the laugh.
No, it was Nomura's.
He doesn't have a particularly stellar track record either.
Why does everyone assume there's behind the scenes drama and bad blood between Nomura and Tabata?
Square Enix needs Kingdom Hearts 3 to be finished this decade while there is such overwhelming demand. I highly doubt Nomura is "on thin ice." He is headlining the next gen version of KH. KH is huge. A collaboration with Disney is monumental.
He can't work full time on both projects and without Nomura there really is no KH3, seeing as the franchise is basically fanfiction starting his OC. People who were kids when KH1/2 came out are young adults with buying power now, and the franchise has a sacred status to them.
Square Enix needs Kingdom Hearts 3 to be finished this decade while there is such overwhelming demand. I highly doubt Nomura is "on thin ice." He is headlining the next gen version of KH. KH is huge. A collaboration with Disney is monumental.
He can't work full time on both projects and without Nomura there really is no KH3, seeing as the franchise is basically fanfiction starting his OC. People who were kids when KH1/2 came out are young adults with buying power now, and the franchise has a sacred status to them.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Stella is certainly anime. I don't know what it is though, but when I look at that picture and see Luna, her face just looks so much more...round? I'm not sure how to describe it. Stella had more angled anime features (to my eyes) that made her look more mature and a bit more stern even. Luna's design is so...rounded and kiddish.Kinda implies that Luna and Stella doesn't look that much different? Otherwise people wouldn't have thought they're the same character, just a slight redesign. By that virtue, if Luna is too anime, Stella is fairly anime as well.
Well I'll be damned.
I love Nomura's work, but I, for one, welcome our new Tabata overlord.
Even with this on his record:
chozen
Member
This post is really weird, this is my response to it
In comparison to Kingdom hearts, yes trying to claim DMC is less linear than a KH game is quite the laugh.
"Kid could draw real good, and they gave him the reigns of a few linear button mashy games that turned out okay... That's about it." < BocoDragons comment against Nomura, and claims Hideki Kamiya makes exceptional games, the contradiction is real. Must be trollin.
*Edit whoops repost
I don't thin either face look particularly more anime that the other. I do however think that Luna's face looks a lot less life like than Stella's which i attribute largely to the texture of their skin. There's a really stark difference in how Stella's skin looks to how Luna's does.
encephalon
Member
I'm pretty sure Nomura wasn't involved with 3rd birthday in any major role. Can you back it up being his suggestion, because I could have sworn it had been toriyama if I'm not remembering fan speculation.
How does he not? He tends to write assertive female characters. Aerith left the party to save the world on her own. Rinoa, despite being ultimately naive, enlisted the party's help while trying to liberate Timber practically on her own. Yuna is probably the strongest female character square has written (I'm ignoring the sequel). Stella's concept seems very nojima to me.
How does he not? He tends to write assertive female characters. Aerith left the party to save the world on her own. Rinoa, despite being ultimately naive, enlisted the party's help while trying to liberate Timber practically on her own. Yuna is probably the strongest female character square has written (I'm ignoring the sequel). Stella's concept seems very nojima to me.
I think Tabata's good at what he aims to do, or actualizing what he's been given to set up.
I'm fond of all three of his game's battle systems and believe he has a cohesive tone(within the concept of each individual game) that doesn't betray itself.
Like conceptually there's a clear progression in things he's done in Crisis Core and 3rd Birthday to Type-0 and from Type-0 to XV
As a director, I've never considered he's gone sideways, but always progressed forward from one point to another.
My only real concern for this game is the story, which is something that I've been concerned for since it was a nomura project.
With all due respect to KH's scope and artistry, its combat has the depth of a kiddie pool compared to DMC or NG. KH 1 and 2 were equally and opposedly flawed button mashers. They're both fine for what the games are trying to achieve, but 1's clunky everything and 2's band-aid fix of lock on and mash the attack button to win is not remotely comparable.
Edit: I will try KH2FM Critical Mode level 1 when KH2.5 is ported to PS4.
I love how there's like 4 seconds of footage for Luna and people know everything about her character.
I've been following the game from the start, and the fact that it was even a question whether Stella and Luna were the same person makes me say, "Hmm, I'll wait and see how this turns out."
I've been following the game from the start, and the fact that it was even a question whether Stella and Luna were the same person makes me say, "Hmm, I'll wait and see how this turns out."
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
as if this thread wasn't bonkers enough, we have DMC getting called "button mashy" and Kamiya getting thrown under the bus for fuckin Kingdom Hearts lol
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I stand by my earlier assessment. I think her jawline is rounder and it gives her a slightly baby/kid look to her face.
That's something I don't care for about XV in general. It's kind of in a bizarro world where some characters look anime and others look human.
The lack of humanoid facial structure has been an odd peeve of mine.
God even that Stella design was so good. Why did they have to change it to Luna's design...
encephalon
Member
Because that's Leanne from Resonance of Fate.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Which was is Leanne? Stella or Luna? Leanne was my favorite female design from last gen.
encephalon
Member
Stella of course. And I agree, she was great.
Yea I do agree the 2013 Stella designs is similar to Leanne. SO good.
Nomura said that they made the party scene fully in CG movie by Visual Works. I assume it was using the update design (similar to 2013) I wish we could see that CG clip.
chozen
Member
Once again KH2FM Critical Mode level 1 will show you it's not a button masher anymore its' equal to what a dante must die mode is. I hate it when people put KH2 on beginner and go calling it a button masher, makes me laugh my ass off. More people need to pick up KH 2.5 and do themselves a favor to see the real game.
Both games were built for the casual and the hardcore, I can button mash through dmc all day as well if I put it on easy mode lol you prove nothing. You might as well be in the minority who thinks that DMC is superior because even in DMCS own forums
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/605600-dmc-devil-may-cry/65063645
Fine day.
Edit* Not throwing Kamiya under the bus, Fine yes the games are fun BUT DMC3 did come with Dante must die mode while all of NA missed out on kh 2 critical mode, So I understand why people think KH is casual.
Aqua is one of the best female character I have seen from Square Enix in long time.
Are we ignoring his other games now? And character assertiveness isn't what I use as a definition of a compelling character. I don't even consider his Aerith anything notable character wise within the confines of FF7.
As for the clothing damage. There's a number of articles referencing Nomura specifically highlighting and explaining the system for it and even suggesting how you have to choose between not getting hurt and having clothes torn off. He's clearly much more passionate about that aspect than any of the other big name people working on the game. And there's his tweets on the 3rd birthday twitter.
Or you can, you know. go to the links in the 3rd birthday's wikipedia article that site the sources of these things.
Did Kairi, Xion and Namine stop existing?
What FF games are you referring to? I don't think anybody's cited his express contributions to any Final Fantasy games.
KH? There's a whale's load of information lending credence to his activism and input in those games, as well as the 3rd birthday
Well if you want to get technical...
Joking aside, all three of them aren't as cool as Aqua, while Aqua herself has a few of their tropes that honestly make her as annoying as they are sometimes
Oh no, I think Aqua's fantastic. But I also consider Aqua to be KH's version of bottled lightning, not just in terms of original women, but most males as well.
the_sun_king
Member
Not to mention it's literally like...TWO clips of Luna we've seen in total*. And these clips are almost definitely taken from a singular scene. We don't know the context of this scene at all. Luna has not uttered a single word since we've seen her. Square has not focused on her yet for their marketing of the game.
The extrapolation is indeed beyond ridiculous and absurd.
*
If I'm wrong on that exact number feel free to correct me, but I know we haven't seen more than a handful of shots of Luna in motion.
Wow your post really resonated with me when I read it, I couldn't have said the same thing any better than you have. This thread (in my opinion) really isn't fully about Stella's removal, it's about the fact that the game is becoming more and more deviant from Nomura's overall vision of the game. What's really scaring me is the fact that we don't know to what extent the game has changed from the FFVXIII days, and as each ATR comes by the game becomes increasingly more deviant. Just when does this deviation stop and at what point do these deviations make it a completely different game.
wmlk, you're completely right about the fact that the core of this game is still very strongly correlated with Nomura's vision (in terms of characters, themes, overall story, and aesthetics), but the removal of Stella and a playable party/invasion gave fans a wake up call. We finally realized that even though the core is the same, Hajime Tabata has complete reign over the game and isn't afraid to change it.
Now Reveirg's last point, the missing Nomura's feel/aesthetic is what truly makes me sad about this whole situation. When FFVXIII was announced, I was excited with the promise of Nomura's direction for a Character Action Final Fantasy game made by the Kingdom Hearts team. With the announcement of Nomura's departure in 2014, two thirds of those elements were gone, and I was left with the hope that Tabata would be as faithful to the vision as much as possible.
Now we know that Stella, the party/invasion, the battle system, the character swapping, and other things have been changed. We're all left wondering what's left of the original vision, and which parts of it does Tabata think is acceptable for changes? Even small details like the camera distance, camera angles in cutscenes, and pacing of battle have been changed from the E3 2013 trailer. This just really sinks in the fact that this is no longer the same game, and it makes me feel like my built up expectations from the original announcements have not been met.
Now all of the things I said above may sound negative, but I'm actually accepting of these changes and am still excited to purchase this game when it comes out. It still doesn't change the fact that I'm incredibly sad because the game I've been expecting all these 9 years will never come out, and I feel like some of the people in this thread shouldn't have to feel the need to try and put us down for it.
The truth of the matter is, these small changes are important to me not only because of the increasing prices of video games; but also because Nomura's Final Fantasy was what I thought would be my dream game. While I'm still going to buy FFXV, I wouldn't be willing to pay $79.99 CAD for it. If it was FFVXIII I would have purchased it in a heartbeat because I now realize that the 2011 trailer still makes me much more excited than any of the recent material I've experienced in FFXV.
Sorry for the long post.
EDIT:
You know what, I think that's exactly my problem. It's not that I dislike what Tabata's doing to the game, it's just that I wished it was Nomura's game still. I really do think of Nomura highly, and it's strange even to me but what's happening right now really does make me feel sad
AuthenticM
Member
Yeah, I will wait until we see more of Luna (and the game) before reaching conclusions.
The only thing I can say is that I loved every single thing about the demo and it is making me extremely excited for the full game.
The only thing I can say is that I loved every single thing about the demo and it is making me extremely excited for the full game.