Maninthemirror
Banned
I am guessing it's a place in the afterlife before heaven itself . Only God knows it's location
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Stephen Fry on Confronting God After Death
- Thread starter ponpo
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I am guessing it's a place in the afterlife before heaven itself . Only God knows it's location
Angelus Errare
Banned
If you already knew what A&E were going to do before they did it...what was the point? I mean they weren't even needed to damn the rest of humanity if you reduce it. You already knew they were going to listen to the serpent (that you created and knew would tempt your new creations anyway...>.>) so why even set up this little test? Where you having a cosmic bet with some deity who couldn't see past present and future and you were just hustling him for the lulz?
Sounds like it was written at a time when people didn't know how big the world was or was going to be. If it is not metaphorical and children really end up in a garden and each one is taught by Abraham. Apparently 21000 die every day. So after a week Abraham has to teach 147000 children. Around 7.6 million in a year? Or maybe through magic there are an infinite amount of Abraham + garden instances that serve a set amount of children. That could work I guess. That would mean there is nothing bad about your child dying though. Who wouldn't want to be taught by Abraham? Do the parents not trust Abraham with their children maybe?
Does the second quote mean that if a parent isn't allowed into paradise their child isn't either? Even if they are good kids in the garden and grow up beyond puberty in that garden? That could be bad and seems to conflict with the previous quote.
He wants to win the gold for mental gymnastics.
Lol at him insisting his argument is just pure skepticism. LOL.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Now you are just reaching lol. Are we really going into semantics over the message like how wide the gates of heAven will be in mathematical numbers; it will be a never ending debate if we go into semantics like you mentioned. We are talking of afterife as another dimension where our sense of math and physics do not apply. It's not physical as we know in our realm, souls won't have nerves
The second qoute means children who died young will intercede on behalf of their parents if their weight of good or bad is in balance for example. And holding hands or clothes is metaphorical term not real in case you ask that question lol
TheChocolateWar
Member
Two goals; The first is to introduce people to more philosophy in an attempt to push the conversation beyond the basics.
The second is to hope that increasing the philosophical literacy of people will result in more arguments for me to analyze, hopefully one I have not seen before, and God forbid (hehe pun) an answer to the puzzle. I got stuck at external world skepticism. I would like a way out of that. Arguments of incredulity and the same tired arguments of evil are three steps back.
He is known to do that. The entire story of Job is just a bet between god and the devil.
Why anyone would bet with an omniscient being, fuck if I know.
CornBurrito
Member
I don't believe you. Not at all.
Why do you only post this skepticism bollocks in God related threads?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_G9awnDCmg
God actually sucks at cards.
This video is proof.
NICE skepticism bro
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
But would it be possible for the babies to reject his teachings? If so, would that mean that some are inherently evil? If not, would that mean that it isn't anyone's fault if they commit evil acts, but rather that they're a product of their environment?
Maninthemirror
Banned
Children are not inherently evil. Never I don't think so neither does God think so neither does most faiths
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
So if someone commits evil acts, would it not be the fault of others? Does that mean that everyone gets into heaven?
TheChocolateWar
Member
Primarily because skepticism is less well received in practical threads. If I post skepticism in practical threads I would need a lot of disclaimers about how I actually support Sir Thomas Reid, or that I have individual opinions that I rely upon outside of skepticism for the sake of every day living. (Not out of acceptance of proof, but more out of personal bias that I readily admit.) The disclaimers are too much work and distract from my underlying purpose of using the Socratic method to try and get people on to Skeptical theory.
chocolate disco
Neo Member
Hey duuude, discussions about religion are always the same.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Eventually everyone will , even those who pass through hell. Hell is like a hospital for druggies where hard drugs are like sin and you through worse before getting better , similar scenarios. Last one remaining will be satan who eventually will accept God himself and all that will be remaining will be heaven as filled with Gods creations
I think they will be taught about good vs bad but they will be cleansed of evil thought in the afterlife if you are referring to children, they will never feel the need to be evil as a result
I think the funnier bit is that god put adam in the garden. And kinda went "here, work this garden and take care of it". "you're free to eat this stuff but not that". That was about the extent of the communication between god and the first human ever, according to the bible. Does noone wonder about the first thing god actually said to the first human? That's how you can tell it's a made up story.
Anyway, then because Adam was lonely and or needed a helper this god created a bunch of animals. However there was not a suitable helper among them! Imagine that. What a cock up on the part of god. Seriously strange that he didn't realize there wouldn't be a suitable helper amongst the animals.
Also, technically, god only banishes adam (the man) from the garden but not eve.
When cain gets punished by god for killing abel he is worried that anyone he meets when wandering around will kill him. But are there even any other people around at that time other than his mom and dad? At any rate they should all be close family members right? why is he talking like he doesn't know them? So many dumb things on every page.
No we're not. We're talking about a garden. Abraham surrounded with children in a garden. What makes you say they're in a dimension where physics don't apply? That's no where in the quote you gave me. Or are you forced to believe something about another dimension where our sense of math and physics don't apply because it would not make sense otherwise?
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
You do realize how absolutely crazy this seems from the perspective of an outsider?
Where is this limbo place that Abraham is going to teach them? What happens if after learning said morality that they deny it or turn away from it? What about individuals who are adults but have the intelligence of a child? Is there an IQ test given to determine the cut off point?
Sorry man, it isn't pretty obvious, in fact it's laughable that you think that others would assume that would be 'obvious'.
Eventually everyone will? Really? So I'm going to be forced to accept God, interesting.
That's been proven false by science. Empathy is an evolved trait and exists from birth, not a learned one. Humans historically had a better survival chance when they cooperate.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/oct/12/babies-moral-life
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/03/28/science/researchers-trace-empathy-s-roots-to-infancy.html
Ahahahaha
Yeah guys there's a magical limbo place where all dead babies go to be taught by a dead prophet but the other guy is definitely reaching
CornBurrito
Member
How can you say that? I'm skeptical. Please provide proof, and then provide proof that the proof you have provided is proof.
Can you prove this statement? I'm highly skeptical.
So there really is no reason why parents should be sad about their children dying then? Why are they still sad though? Do they not really believe?
Hold on, it's in my coat pocket somewhere.
Maybe they're sad that the child didn't suffer enough and therefore gets a lesser share of heavenly rewards.
Prove you have a coat. Then prove that our existence is not imaginary.
Wow I never thought about this one. Perhaps retarded babies only have malfunctioning brains that disrupt the communication between the soul and the body or whatever. So really there are no retarded souls. When magic is involved you really can make up anything.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
So we're just a game for God? Why not, since he is so good, make a great story involving discoveries, advancements and all kinds of good things? Why not include something that would actually be useful for mankind in the bible, like... the Earth is round and is not the center of the universe, or that enslavement is wrong in every case? That assumption you made makes no sense whatsoever.
It's like he's saying "ok, let me put those fucks here and let them do whatever the fuck they want, just because. I could use my powers to teach them useful stuff and make them a good kind of thinking beings, but no, I'll let them do unspeakable things and I'm not gonna do anything."
Like Fry said, if there is a God he is a terrible example.
Maninthemirror
Banned
The garden is a metaphor for a garden like place. You are thinking a garden like you see here on earth when it's a metaphor for that.
CornBurrito
Member
Actually do we have proof that language works? Like do the letters on my screen represent the same words you think when you read them? Or perhaps my "the" is fundamentally different from your "the" and thus my message means something entirely different to you than it does to me. And it is only through sheer coincidence and luck that people think they're actually transmitting meaning to another person.
I think we should seriously address this topic before going further.
No I think he was saying the Bible wouldn't be interesting if there wasn't any conflict or suffering and whatnot.
Personally I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for the sequel, it's a shame the author is somehow slower than GRRM at this point.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
We have gone over this before but you never answered. How do you know what is a metaphor and what is literal?
Maninthemirror
Banned
They will be sad as they wouldn't enjoy them and bring them up and see them grow and be successful in morals and wordly affairs . They also know that they will be In a better place yesrs down the line when they think of their lost child
Not agreeing or disagreeing, but stories involve problems. There is no story without a problem. If that's the case it would just be an incident.
So far you have not proven you have a screen to begin with.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
I'm skeptical about whether screens even exist.
Tesseract
Banned
because a lot of god related threads are infested with little worms who can't distinguish aleatory and epistemic uncertainty in probability
it's a dangerous dance, even feynman faltered from time to time
Insane Metal
Gold Member
Well, yeah I got that, that just means the bible is a big pile of fiction like endless others, but which was treated as true just because of some powerful people in a given time did everything they could to make it happen (and give them more power over the people and over everything).
Isn't that our view of things? We, who absolutely can't control society as a whole, differences in culture and so on? Tell me, if you had the power to create a whole universe and you could choose to create one where no child would ever suffer, where no person would ever want to murder another, or create one where every kind of evil is possible and where countless innocent people die on a daily basis, which one would you choose? You don't have to be "a God" to know that everyone deserves the best and should be the best.
Lucky for you I am a licensed bullshitter and wrote a paper on how Plato didn't know shit in high school. So just take my word for it.
Anyway, why are you bothering me, I'm just here to convert the unwashed masses to this totally rad and certified school of thought that makes you the obnoxious douche at college parties you always wanted to be.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Well you didn't seem to get it before so let me reiterate. Say a text says gardens and streams of water, that is a metaphor of something in the afterlife which will the soul will feel similar to how we feel in this life. A garden and streams of water denotes a peaceful place and this is what it refers to when we cannot comprehend what it will look like as the human imagination cannot conscieve what is in another realm of dimension, it doesn't have the capacity for it
Pyramid head
Banned
Why do they have to learn all this stuff, y'know with them already being dead and all? Do they at least get to go through a life simulation of sorts to get some practical application in before going through the gates? And do they get started on the learning straight away, or does Abraham have to nurse them for a few years before their dead brains are capable of comprehending his teaching? Or do they warp forward in time a few years? Do they even age or do they stay babies for eternity? If they age, do dead adults still age? At what age do they stop aging, do you get to choose?
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
chocolate disco
Neo Member
Do you like a feeling of a punch in the face? No? Then I think you will not like my proofs. Be you skeptical or burrito.
But compared to infinity, life on earth is extremely short as you said yourself. I guess most people are too stupid to comprehend the implications of that, huh? Or maybe they don't really believe in an infinite time in paradise. Being confronted with the lifeless corpse of their child you'd think they would go "meh, I still have an infinity to spend with my child in just a bit". Instead of "wahh wahh please don't take my young child" etc.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Befsause afterlife is not physical like we see on earth it's in another realm of reality. So it won't be gardens like we see here. What are you not getting its such an easy concept lol
TheChocolateWar
Member
Well, it was my perception that one day I posted such skepticism of evidence in a practical police shooting thread, to which I was promptly banned for one month, at least according to the evidence that I was unable to log in, and a message kept telling me that I was not allowed to access the forums for one month due to doing so. Emotions seems to get more inflamed in practical threads. Given all this information, it seems more likely than not that skepticism is less well received in normal threads.
That and historical records that I have looked at have said that Socrates was killed for it too.
This is what I'm curious about. I wonder if dead babies are like heaven's version of cockroaches, they're just fucking everywhere, literally anything will kill those little bastards and send them poor Abraham's way.
Yeah seriously guys were you all sleeping through Afterlife 101 or something? Such an obvious concept, I mean duh
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
I don't know anything about Beefsause afterlife, but I imagine it will be rad.
I mean when you stub your toe it hurts in the moment, but you know it'll get better after.
CornBurrito
Member
Question: If Genesis is a metaphor for evolution, why does it still get the order wrong and put the evolution of plants millions of years before the existence of the sun, and put the existence of birds before the existence of mammals?
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