Support NeoGAF

[nkarafo]

Seen a few videos of Gina Carano and her character in The Mandalorian and everyone is "Strong woman this, strong independent woman that". Of course, Gina isn't the only one, nor it's anything new. Every time a female character appears in a movie/show/videogame you are bound to see at least a few comments about how "strong and independent" she is.

Isn't it patronizing when people describe women this way to make sure everyone gets it? How it reeks of insecurity? Why do you think nobody needs to spell it out like this when it comes to male characters/heroes/businessmen?

This is the same level of pandering parents do to their children.

I'm not a woman but i wonder, are there any women here cringing every time they see this shit? I know i would.

 

[TrainedRage]

She is actually strong tho. Like in the physical sense soooo... I mean. But yeah it would be annoying to me if I was a woman.

 

[The Cockatrice]

I thought we did the same thing to males. Look how strong Hulk is, look how tough this guy is for his age, etc. How else would you describe a person if not by adjectives?

 

[nkarafo]

Look how strong Hulk is, look how tough this guy is for his age, etc. How else would you describe a person if not by adjectives?

See the difference though? You see Hulk being an old man. Old age usually means weakness. But he is still strong despite that so you point it out, which makes sense since many people would assume he is weak now.

That's what i'm talking about. People see a woman (who is strong) but has to spell out she is strong. Why though? Maybe because being a woman means weakness, thus she is strong despite being a woman? Isn't that the sexist behavior we want to get rid of in the first place?

 

[poppabk]

See the difference though? You see Hulk being an old man. Old age usually means weakness. But he is still strong despite that so you point it out, which makes sense since many people would assume he is weak now.

That's what i'm talking about. People see a woman (who is strong) but has to spell out she is strong. Why though? Maybe because being a woman means weakness, thus she is strong despite being a woman? Isn't that the sexist behavior we want to get rid of in the first place?

You are almost there. Women have traditionally been seen as weaker physically and emotionally and reliant on others (men) so people stress that these are not true.
Just like older people will be described as strong or energetic etc. Men might be described as caring and attentive etc.
The assumption is that people are coming to the table with preconceived notions that need to be dispelled.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Don’t play naive, OP. You’ve been here a while, you know what people mean by that.

Women can absolutely be strong.
A woman that happens to be stronger than any other character in her story, however, is something else, especially if her strength is mainly physical. Also, it’s the current trend that these women often are depicted beating men like it’s their life‘s destiny or something, like the greatest achievement a woman can possibly aspire to. That’s what most people arguing in good faith scoff at.

It’s also rarer these days to see a show where a woman “wins” through seduction or deception, like it’s dishonorable or something that “good” women don’t do, while it’s been the main strategy of the female sex through the centuries. In a good number of cases, a woman many people call a whore is just a woman playing her cards the right way. You know who loves to shame such a woman the most? Other women.

Of course there’s a fair share of men who are just frustrated misogynists at heart and couldn’t recognize a good female character if she kicked them in the groin. Those also happen to be very vocal people, that much is true.

Truth is, lots of women are “strong” in a very feminine way, and most men are ready to appreciate them (as long as they don’t step on their toes). Then there’s women who are mysteriously very popular among women, like Bella from Twilight who does absolutely nothing throughout the whole story. Go figure.

 

[kamkamkam]

 

[Kamina]

What is a strong woman?
A woman desperately trying to act though and more “masculine” in order to fit in with the universal understanding of dominance, trying to please the demands of modern feminism?
Or rather a woman who is her own self, remains true to her ideals and follows her own path regardless of what other people, be they men or women, expect her to be?

 

[Patrick S.]

REEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[Mistake]

See the difference though? You see Hulk being an old man. Old age usually means weakness. But he is still strong despite that so you point it out, which makes sense since many people would assume he is weak now.

That's what i'm talking about. People see a woman (who is strong) but has to spell out she is strong. Why though? Maybe because being a woman means weakness, thus she is strong despite being a woman? Isn't that the sexist behavior we want to get rid of in the first place?

There is the norm, and then exceptions to that norm. Being realistic doesn't mean someone's sexist or whatever ism is trending nowadays.

 

[BigBooper]

Most women are more emotionally affected by other people. Not necessarily men because it could also be friends or those women clubs.

When people say independent, they are implying not as emotionally reliant on other people, which is different from most women.

It seems like you're feigning offense. I would take a step back and not look around for things people, especially other people, should be offended about. Much happier that way.

 

[nkarafo]

There is the norm, and then exceptions to that norm. Being realistic doesn't mean someone's sexist or whatever ism is trending nowadays.

I agree to that.

It seems like you're feigning offense. I would take a step back and not look around for things people, especially other people, should be offended about. Much happier that way.

I'm not "offended". I just find it weird how women are OK with the obvious pandering sometimes.

 

[Peggies]

I just find it weird how women are OK with the obvious pandering sometimes.

OK, you got me .
Personaly, I'm annoyed by any kind of identity politics in movies or blunt characters. What I really hate though is shit like "Let's remake Ghostbusters - but with women".
And stupid questions.

 

[Maybe It's Medicine?]

It's a fantasy bro. Kind of the point of escapism no? The truth is most women are dependent on others so there is appeal in the fantasy. Just like action movies where the main guy takes out a crime syndicate, but even in video games I'm like the first dude to be clipped. It's not representative of me, but I don't watch movies because I want a depection of what it's like to work boring 9-5s while trying to appeal to reason with people who have lost their way on the internet. Does it upset that women can fantasize about being strong and independent like men do? Why try to make it more than that, or feed into woke media grifting on it?

 

[ArtemisClydeFrog]

It's a fantasy bro. Kind of the point of escapism no? The truth is most women are dependent on others so there is appeal in the fantasy. Just like action movies where the main guy takes out a crime syndicate, but even in video games I'm like the first dude to be clipped. It's not representative of me, but I don't watch movies because I want a depection of what it's like to work boring 9-5s while trying to appeal to reason with people who have lost their way on the internet. Does it upset that women can fantasize about being strong and independent like men do? Why try to make it more than that, or feed into woke media grifting on it?

"The truth is most women are dependant on others"

Sounds like some incel shit. I'd love to see some statistics or proof of this.

 

[Croatoan]

Strong independent woman is a trope. Its also become something the social justice religious zealots clamor for which is why it has become so prevalent in our media.

That said, I LOVE female protagonists, but only if they are attractive. I just like the eye candy, and I am okay with a little Mary Sueism. For example, I personally thought Rey was fine they just did nothing interesting with her character. Fairly certain female 007, while pretty, will be entertaining but not sell well either.

Scar Jo, J Law, Emma Stone in action films? Feed that shit into my veins.

 

[BigBooper]

Strong independent woman is a trope. Its also become something the social justice religious zealots clamor for which is why it has become so prevalent in our media.

That said, I LOVE female protagonists, but only if they are attractive. I just like the eye candy, and I am okay with a little Mary Sueism. For example, I personally thought Rey was fine they just did nothing interesting with her character. Fairly certain female 007, while pretty, will be entertaining but not sell well either.

Scar Jo, J Law, Emma Stone in action films? Feed that shit into my veins.

Have you ever seen a little movie called Lost in Translation? The whole movie's pretty good, but the best part is the title scene. Scar Jo is very strong and independent in certain ways which are very enjoyable.

 

[Croatoan]

Have you ever seen a little movie called Lost in Translation? The whole movie's pretty good, but the best part is the title scene. Scar Jo is very strong and independent in certain ways which are very enjoyable.

Is that the one with Bill Murray? Might check it out.

 

[EverydayBeast]

UFC is on her resume.

 

[jsnake19]

Really, not a single south park reference ITT??

 

[Master Of Illusion]

The term "strong woman" should only be a sexual term for those who perform Kegel exercises.

 

[thefool]

Prevailing gender norms are still the most common and desirable. Men like submissive women, women like dominant men. You can remove or add as many layers as you want to this, including displaying strong physical attributes, which are atypical in women.

By breaking norms, you're presenting something different. In several cases others can relate to and/or lookup to it. It can also be some kind of fetishization.

 

[Soodanim]

OP, I think what you're trying to say is that "Strong, independent woman" is a male-centric term suggesting the normal is to be weak and dependent, but either way the character is defined by males because they're just relative terms and to truly break free from the patriarchy they need to start describing these characters by using terms that are free of attachment to the sex based adjectives they feel oppress them.

You could just as easily look at it from the perspective that independent isn't something on the scale of dependence. Think of 4th July in USA. Independence is itself the declaration that depence, while being something that exists, isn't something that happens in whichever instance is being discussed.

 

[The Hamburglar]

I bet he choked one out in the bathroom too after that.

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

Nothing wrong with a strong woman, Amanda Nunes would fuck up the majority of the basement dwellers on this forum

 

[German Hops]

A strong woman is one that can make me nut in under a minute.

 

[Kamina]

Nothing wrong with a strong woman, Amanda Nunes would fuck up the majority of the basement dwellers on this forum

No need to insult people.
She is a professional boxer, judging from my quick googling, and can most likely “fuck up” a majority of men on the globe.
However, i don’t think the ability to extort violence based on physical capabilities should be the single definition of strong.

 

[JimmyRustler]

UFC is on her resume.

Damn... she sure gained a bit weight since then.

 

[Soodanim]

Nothing wrong with a strong woman, Amanda Nunes would fuck up the majority of the basement dwellers on this forum

Mate

Bit offensive to assume everyone can afford a house with a basement

Some of these people are out here struggling in regular bedrooms

 

[MMaRsu]

Well they dont mean physically strong

 

[mcjmetroid]

And often strong women in modern movies means they have no personality or no weakness.

I consider Ellen Ripley to be the ultimate strong woman character. Strong female character but has weaknesses as well. Every good character has this.

Now we have Wonder Woman, Captain America.. yawn.

It is patronising and a lot of women do think like you do OP. They're not idiots like.

 

[Elektro Demon]

I avoid pretty much every new movie because of this.

 

[Grand Theft Scratchy]

No need to insult people.
She is a professional boxer, judging from my quick googling, and can most likely “fuck up” a majority of men on the globe.
However, i don’t think the ability to extort violence based on physical capabilities should be the single definition of strong.

No, but I agree with you. Who logs onto a video game forum to insult people like that?