Omegasquash
Member
Ratings, how do they work?
Parents, don't let your kids play games that are over their heads (so to speak).
Parents, don't let your kids play games that are over their heads (so to speak).
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Study: Violent Video Games May Make Kids More Aggressive
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
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An important thing I think this study demonstrates is that sexual themes can also have a negative impact on children. It introduces sexual themes to them before they know what it is, and if they're the geeky kids who spend most of their time alone, these video games can often be one of the only sources of "contact" they have with the opposite sex, thus forming early (and thus lasting) impressions about the opposite sex. Kids' brains are VERY impressionable. That's been demonstrated numerous times.
I bring this up because every time sexual themes in games comes up people say "well games are violent and they don't affect people, so why should sexual themes do that?"
Well that reasoning is sound. Problem is, violent games do affect people. So following the reasoning with the proper facts in mind, what do we conclude about sexual themes?
Same deal with language issues. Studies have shown, if I'm not misremembering, that listening to foul language a lot will influence you. Same with music, even when you're an adult.
I bring this up because every time sexual themes in games comes up people say "well games are violent and they don't affect people, so why should sexual themes do that?"
Well that reasoning is sound. Problem is, violent games do affect people. So following the reasoning with the proper facts in mind, what do we conclude about sexual themes?
Same deal with language issues. Studies have shown, if I'm not misremembering, that listening to foul language a lot will influence you. Same with music, even when you're an adult.
KillerMan91
Member
plagiarize
Banned
I guess I think there is a lot of normal, good kids, who's parents have no reason to worry about the games their kid is playing. So is it really fair to disparage such parents? If there's no good reason for a parent to micromanage their kids media intake... I don't think that makes you a bad parent for not doing it.
My parents let me play whatever I wanted because I never gave them any reason not to. They weren't bad parents at all.
No one is stating otherwise.
Yeah, there are some pretty major problems with this study (as the researchers themselves identified). Doesn't mean their conclusion is wrong though (doesn't mean it's right either). Also, most developmental psychs whom I've worked with can't find shoes in a shoebox. The APA is just as bad, though.
Omegasquash
Member
You don't have to micromanage it...you just have to oversee it and make decisions in the best interest of your child's development. Well, you OUGHT to anyway.
GTA5 possibly could, but that depends. There's a difference between gore and power fantasies. Very much the same, but there is a difference. Gore is a factor.
Little boys have lots of testosterone. They need to exert it. They like violent, aggressive play because of those chemicals and things. I grew up with parents who tried to limit the amount of violent and aggressive activity that I did, and I ended up a very shy, timid, frustrated, childish guy. In fact, even despite all their best efforts, I still ended up making swords out of sticks, guns out of everything I could find. I took flight simulator (which was one of the few games I was allowed to play since it wasn't violent) and got a modded plain that shot purely aesthetic bullets. I reveled in playing Oregon Trail's hunting sections. Put on the weirdest things on as armor and battled it out with my brothers. You couldn't stop us. We just had that urge.
Sports are a great way to get kids (boys especially) to vent that energy in a positive way. Thus, if you have a video game that serves that purpose (a racing game -- which certainly has "violence" -- or a fairly mild shooter like Halo when the kid is a teenager or so), I don't see how that is a bad thing. (Naturally, I haven't covered important things like exercise, and limiting the amount of screen time).
I really don't want to get into a discussion about the differences and similarities between sexes. My not mentioning girls is just that -- not mentioning them. I talk about boys because I just happen to be one, so I have personal experience with that.
In that sense, you're parents likely knew you fairly well. Or at least enough.
I'm mainly addressing parents that don't know their kids. That just use video games as baby-sitters -- replacement parents. If you're going to do that, you're a pretty awful parent. But hey, you could at least mitigate the harm your awful parenting is doing if you'd at least keep them generally away from M rated games. It's not the best, but it's better than leaving it to chance.
I think it's one of those things where parents need to not only keep an eye on what games kids play, but also the type of company their kids keep through these games.
Playing violent games is fine if the kid understands that it's just in-game violence and doesn't get too into it. But if the kid hangs out with a bunch of people who constantly scream racist slurs and other obscenities at the slightest provocation, then that would be just as bad an influence as the kid hanging with such assholes in real life.
Playing violent games is fine if the kid understands that it's just in-game violence and doesn't get too into it. But if the kid hangs out with a bunch of people who constantly scream racist slurs and other obscenities at the slightest provocation, then that would be just as bad an influence as the kid hanging with such assholes in real life.
Hari Seldon
Member
Eh, soft science studies should be treated with the grain of salt that their lack of sound mathematical foundation deserves.
Basically some learned man said that this might be true. That is it. One step above some yahoo on Fox News spouting nonsense. But far below actual science.
Basically some learned man said that this might be true. That is it. One step above some yahoo on Fox News spouting nonsense. But far below actual science.
Not sure how video game would be a significant factor in things like depression, anxiety, panic disorders, etc?
At the end of the day there are many variables in life that help mold us into the kind of person we are and I am not sold media consumption can turn normal kids into violent aggressive adults.
Each kid is going to react to something differently. There is also a major difference between play acting, being aggressive, or actual violence with kids. In general though, I have a hard time with most of these types of studies that try to conclude that media source X leads to behavior Y automatically without a writeup of what the parent has done pre/post exposure, prior child habits and bias, and ruling out the "control" group known as history which will show kids getting into fights, using sticks as pretend swords in play, play "war", have arguments, get angry, etc. All of those show different aspects of different behavior and environment, but all are unique to each kid involved.
I mean, just because my nephews played COD in their earlier years (ages ~2-6) doesn't mean that they are defaulting to aggressive behavior. Sure, they bicker among themselves and sometimes do inaprorpiate things, but that wasn't any different from any kid I knew growing up and the parents intervene when they do inapropriate things. They also happen to be the most cowardly kids I know and reluctant to try anything physical without a lot of convincing, in addition to shying away from most animals in spite of their grandparents raising various animals in their home (quite often the same types of animals). Personally I do find it curious that one of them has a morbid facination with the animals he is afraid of wanting to watch videos and movies of them frequently.
plagiarize
Banned
Why? That's what I don't get. If your child isn't exhibiting any ill effects from their media consumption why should you monitor their media? Its like saying every parent should monitor everything their child eats even if the kid is in perfect physical health.
I asked a guy at work why he'd bought his son GTA V, reason was "all his friends have it, he'll just play it at their house instead". He didn't look happy about the situation, he just looked even more miserable when I explained that opening sequence with Trevor.
Parents wouldn't buy their children hardcore porn, and they probably wouldn't buy them the Saw films box set, I really don't understand why gaming isn't just seen the same way. I think the bit which confuses me most is that once upon a time, games were seen as toys for kids, by adults who had no frame of reference. Now though many if not most parents have grown up understanding games as a media. I don't understand why buying choices haven't matured at the same time.
MagnaderAlpha
Member
All children are different, so they are going to affected differently. But, parents SHOULD know how their kids are(how they behave, how they react to stimulation). Or, might I say, any GOOD parent should know. It's all observation, and it's part of the job. You don't go deep sea diving with someone who doesn't know how to swim. You don't ask someone who never worked on a car to fix your boss's expensive luxury vehicle. It's all knowing through observation. If a kid gets so worked up in other ways, you might not want to expose them to certain "things" like violent games. Lets face it, there's going to be kids that react in ways like that kid who thought he was Superman and jumped off the roof of his house, or those kids who burned down their house after imitating Beavis & Butthead's infamous "fire" gag. Parents have a job to do whether they like it or not. If you're a parent and don't know how your kid would react, I seriously suggest spending more time with them, getting to know and understand them. It goes a long way. Trying to buy them off with toys isn't helping.
It really does make me sound old, but sometimes that quality time makes a world of difference. No game or movie could feel that void. But, with all the technology, it almost feels like everybody's getting more distant. So close, yet so distant. There are miles and miles of wires between us all, even when we are standing a foot away from each other..
A side note, if a parent is persistent(especially with pre-teen level children), they can have control/dominance over the situation. So what if "a friend has the game". YOU are in charge of whether or not your kid can GO OVER to their friend's house. You can call their friend's parents and insist that, if your kid sneaks over, they are sent home or closely monitored. YOU can make an effort of picking your kid up from school. YOU can put a strangle hold on their devices(phones, compute, ESPECIALLY video games), as well as cut their allowance. A child can only rebel so much. When they become teens, become more crafty and harder to deal with, but as young children, you can totally seize control. And it's not about being mean or power-hungry, but being a good parent.
It really does make me sound old, but sometimes that quality time makes a world of difference. No game or movie could feel that void. But, with all the technology, it almost feels like everybody's getting more distant. So close, yet so distant. There are miles and miles of wires between us all, even when we are standing a foot away from each other..
A side note, if a parent is persistent(especially with pre-teen level children), they can have control/dominance over the situation. So what if "a friend has the game". YOU are in charge of whether or not your kid can GO OVER to their friend's house. You can call their friend's parents and insist that, if your kid sneaks over, they are sent home or closely monitored. YOU can make an effort of picking your kid up from school. YOU can put a strangle hold on their devices(phones, compute, ESPECIALLY video games), as well as cut their allowance. A child can only rebel so much. When they become teens, become more crafty and harder to deal with, but as young children, you can totally seize control. And it's not about being mean or power-hungry, but being a good parent.
Well, to be fair, the ratings systems are far more a social construct than scientific. So I think its great that science is out there trying to find more grounded answers to this stuff.
I don't like that so much of it is now focused strictly on videogames and a lot of it is commission by folks with a political agenda.
Sylverstone14
Member
See you guys in 6 months when another study says that it doesn't.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Usually violent games have a age rating ranging from teen to adult, kids shouldn't be playing them. Rather than questioning the medium, how about the parenting.
entremet
Member
Many parents don't really care. They see video games as cartoonish anyway. Anyone who has worked in game retails knows this.
digoutyoursoul
Member
I did work in retail. Doesn't matter if they care or not, if they purchase 15-18 rated games for kids then it's their responsibility. The ratings are there for a reason.
The mainstream media want to make issues out of the medium itself rather than the real issue at hand which is ridiculous considering you can certainly look to movies and music as references for influencing violence too but games seems to be attacked as an overall negative.
Whenever a new GTA comes out, it's so predictable the headlines that occur during it's release.
HueyFreeman
Banned
A wonderful post that absolutely fucking no one will read :b
Regardless, I appreciate it, and appreciate this as valuable research. JAMA is a highly respected publication.
I'm not saying that kids 100% imitate everything they see on TV. I don't get why when we have this discussion, people always like to jump to that. All I'm saying is, as human beings, we are influenced by the things that we like. It's not just kids (although I would say, kids are more open to this, as they aren't fully matured emotionally/psychologically). So to me, a study saying that: kids playing aggressive games are more likely to have aggressive behavior, doesn't seem all that shocking to me.
As others have said, there is a big jump between that, and physically acting out things from games (ie, killing someone, or doing something extremely dangerous or harmful). I think most kids are capable of understanding reality vs. fiction. The argument isn't that they aren't. More so, that them being around things that are violent and aggressive, is more likely to make them have violent/aggressive behavior (by influence, or familiarity). Whether that's something as simple as, the kid throwing his blocks across the room. Being more hyper. Smacking a friend in the head. Whatever.
I feel torn on this. Ultimately, I think a parent should know their child enough, to be able to decide what content they can handle. But I'm like most of you. I played Goldeneye when I was like 7 years old. I played violent games. I remember playing GTA 3! I'm the least violent person you would ever know. So I understand where people are coming from with their own experiences. But I still think that, there should be suggested age limits. I don't think every kid should watch violent movies as a young age, or play violent games.
But I also think a big part of this is responsible parenting. Being able to tell if your kid is mature enough to handle this stuff. Taking the time to sit down with your child and educate them. Just what I think. But then again, my parents never did this. They were good parents in other areas (they raised me to be a good person). But they pretty much left me alone to play whatever I wanted. And I turned out fine. *shrugs* But I also think games are a lot more violent and realistic today then they once were. I dunno if comparing goldeneye to Call of Duty is really fair?
muleyman13
Member
Thanks bud, I see my children as my future ,just like all children are all of our future and need to be educated to the highest degree possible, so that each generation hopefully gets better than the last. IMO. =)
muleyman13
Member
I understand this and as truly depressing as your point is, it is ultimately still the parents responsibility to over see and educate their child, I just think censorship is never the correct or appropriate response.
If the children don't know better to protect themselves from something, and their parents refuse to do it, then they should just suffer? No, censorship is often the right answer. Not allowing porn and sexual materials in a grade school library is censorship, but it's appropriate. Things must be measured and done appropriately. I think what you're saying is that censorship should not be allowed for those over the appropriate age -- a society has a vested interest in the well-being of children.
I agree that knowledge, information, and open discussion shouldn't be restricted among adults. I do not agree that restrictions for children should also be banned.
MagnaderAlpha
Member
The whole "Blame violent video games!" and "Blame violent movies!" is nothing more than scapegoating. Bad parents don't want be called "bad parents" so they shift the blame onto something else. "Me? It can't be ME, I'm a GOOD parent! Don't question MY parenting skills! It's... the video games! Yeah, the video games and horror movies and aggressive music! No me, but those! I'm a GOOD parent!". Really, whether they like it or not, parents have a responsibility to society. The kid they are rearing will eventually be turned loose into the world.
And you don't think that that is a far more detrimental factor in a kids development then ANY amount of violent or sexual media the kid is exposed to?
A kid who grows up in an environment like that will have a hard time coming out OK even if all they have is Seseme Street.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
I'm not going to say that every child with bad parents ends up with problems. That's probably not the case, but you're right, it is likely.
That said, there is no one kind of 'bad parent'. Some are ignorant, and others are distant. Some are abusive and others are careless. So it's impossible to say under what circumstance the child will not be as affected by violent media as he is by complacent or violent parents.
In the absence of responsible and vigilant parents, which we know exist, rating systems need to be enforced better than they currently are.
How much impact violent media has on a child's development is still very much debated with many studies disagreeing with each other. And again do violent kids seek out violent media or the other way around is still heavily disputed as well.
However commenting on your example. No, I don't think a "lonley" kid whose only "contact" with the opposite sex is via a video game is gonna have a skewed sexist point a view of women. That lonley shy kid is not gonna grow up and suddently be the cocky, slap a girls butt, kind of guy. That lonley kid will most likely remain shy and mostly lonley as he gets older and will shy away from relationships by not being confident and putting himself out there. And of course when he does start trying to get with the opposite sex he will most likely be akward due to poor social skills.
I don't think your example is a good one.
I don't think the rating system enforcement is the problem. I think people not taking responsibility for their actions and trying to blame the media in our country is the problem. People significantly ignore the greater impact real life interactions and people have on a child.
A child growing up with good examples of women and a father and other male figures who respect women will most likely grow up to respect women as well. No amount of rap music or James Bond will really change that. Not to mention the experience of disrespecting a women and getting a poor response would also deter this kid.
Even if a child has poor examples of human beings at home they have friends, neighbors and other people who act as examples. These people and their acceptance are far more influential then video games, movies, etc.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I was going to say the same. Although I'm sure many of us in our twenties and thirties played violent games like Mortal Kombat, Doom or Duke Nukem 3D when we were young, it's really incomparable to the content and depiction of some games these days.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
For me, it all boils down to one question: If a child has irresponsible parents, do we as society turn our back on that child and allow whatever tendencies there are to manifest themselves through exposure to violent media? Or should we try harder at better enforcing the laws in relation to suggested rating systems?
If you don't monitor their media, then how do you know what is or is not having negative effects?
I agree that as a society we should help out these kids, however not the way you seem to think. I don't think censorship is a better solution then actually improving our school systems, providing plenty of after school activities and improving social services in order to insure that this kid turns out ok or at least has a fighting chance.
I don't think making it harder or taboo to buy violent games would make a difference when kids borrow games from eachother all the time. The problem is people want an easy answer to this problem. They want to say, ok don't have video games or violent video games and the kid will turn out fine or better regardless of the other variables in their life. Not true. If we really want to help out our youth we need to value time with our family as a country and buisness encourage this with time off and livable wages.
This issue needs a bigger fix then a 16 year old cashier asking for my ID card when I buy my next M Rated game.
TeknoBlast
Banned
Well hell. I'm must be some crazed, lunatic, psychopath killer because I've been gaming mild to hardcore violent video games since I was a kid.
There must be something wrong with me.
There must be something wrong with me.
Noo, being an absent, worthless ass PARENT that sticks their child in front of a TV/iPad/games console all damn day while the parents go and "have a break" will make your kids more violent. Stop trying to blame shit on everything but the obvious. The kid can't afford the console so who bought it for them? If you gonna complain about it then be a fucking parent and DON'T BUY the shit or better yet, pay attention to what the hell your kids are playing/doing...maybe even spend some time with them. Geez. Articles like these piss me off
LookAtMeGo
Member
I found when I was a kid that difficult videogames made me more aggressive than violent ones.
Would be interesting to see the control group for this study, and also the data on what they're classifying for their normative baseline.
Still, no real surprise - kids exposed to violence of any kind over an extended period exhibit more aggressive behaviours. The point is to not let little kids play M/18 rated games in the first place.
Still, no real surprise - kids exposed to violence of any kind over an extended period exhibit more aggressive behaviours. The point is to not let little kids play M/18 rated games in the first place.
Jules Coast
Member
It probably does.
Football probably does.
Violent movies probably do.
Action movies probably do.
And so on...
Football probably does.
Violent movies probably do.
Action movies probably do.
And so on...
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