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Suicide Squad or Batman v. Superman?

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MattKeil said:
That's not really a counter to what you quoted. The pearls in Miller's portrayal (and subsequent derivative portrayals) are a closeup of the necklace breaking and coming apart. In BvS, it's like some kind of celebration of pearls the way they fly all over the place. It's classic Snyderization. The man cannot do anything without Xtreme-ifying it. He makes '90s Image Comics as films, whether he intends to or not. Frankly I'd legitimately like to see him tackle Spawn, which seems like it would be much more his kind of thing.
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BvS has flaws but I will forever defend the opening credits. It's the GOAT superhero title sequence together with Watchmen. Perfect example of show, don't tell. GAF has an unhealthy bias against Snyder, but you can't deny the man can make cool as fuck title sequences.
 
XAL said:
Yeup, thankfully that's not the only way to portray that scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtpxEmInvfg

And Pearl necklaces are knotted around each pearl for the specific intent of if it ever breaks you at worst lose 1 pearl.

If it breaks and all the pearls go flying you bought a knockoff or super cheap pearl necklace.

So I guess Thomas Wayne is a cheap bastard.

TDKReturns_Pearls_550_54245728008c02.12594167.jpg
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There are multiple breaks in the panel, but I'm not going to bother arguing further about pearl necklace physics on account of how petty it is as a complaint to begin with. That's only half of what you discuss in the quoted paragraph. Thomas Wayne clearly appears to be making a move in those panels, and Joe shoots him in response. It's not Snyder's invention.
 
MattKeil said:
One of the biggest flaws of the film as I saw it was how utterly derivative the Batman and Superman portrayals are. What did you see as being unique? While Affleck gets my nod for the best live action Batman in terms of faithfulness to the comics (minus the constant murdering thing), I'd say every aspect of those two characters has been done better in other media.
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We're talking about 80 year old pop culture icons, so sure, I'll agree that every aspect we see in BvS has been done better in other media. But not in films or television. Many writers have explored Batman and Superman on a mythical level and how people view them as gods among men. But we haven't seen this take in a movie. It's about time someone did it. Snyder might not have the finesse, but he has the heart.
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
There are multiple breaks in the panel, but I'm not going to bother arguing further about pearl necklace physics on account of how petty it is as a complaint to begin with. That's only half of what you discuss in the quoted paragraph. Thomas Wayne clearly appears to be making a move in those panels, and Joe shoots him in response. It's not Snyder's invention.
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He CHOSE to have Thomas Wayne provoking the mugger.

The murder is not always depicted in that way. In fact I'd argue it's more often depicted as a completely senseless murder, with Thomas Wayne being shot first or stepping in front of Martha or that part of the killing not even deemed important enough to show.

Given his Zack's sensibilities it would make sense that he would choose Thomas provoking the attacker for his depiction of the mugging because he deemed that was important for him to show.

Pearls exploding all over the place = cheap necklace = Thomas Wayne bought his wife a cheap pearl necklace? It's just a conclusion drawn from a fact. I guess it's petty? But the movie/Zack Snyder has much bigger problems and I touched on some of those which is why I said more stuff other than the pearls.
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Batman vs Superman feels like it was a movie that somebody actually wanted to make, and has a lot of salvageable elements. Jeremy Irons killed it as possibly the best cinematic Alfred. Afleck is a really good Batman, questionable kills aside. It has imo the best fight scene ever put into a superhero movie. It's gorgeous to look at most of the time. Wonder Woman is pretty good. Good soundtrack, even if it's not Junkie XL or Zimmer's best work ever. People complain that this movie is dark / sad / brooding. It is, but at least it's tonally consistent.
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Agree with all of this except the bolded - the Smallville fight in MoS is better IMO, especially the scene where Faora takes on the platoon. Something about her movement made the completely unreal real for me.

Not to take away from Batfleck's warehouse fight tho - by far and away the best bat-scrap in film or TV.
 
Enjoyed Suicide Squad. Didn't get involved in the hype before release.

Barely enjoyed BvS. As usual, got involved in the hype before release.

Suicide Squad.
 
Suicide Squad was only two hours long, I liked the characters, and there was plenty of levity to make up for the bad parts.

I still think it's overall a bad film but if you're gonna hold it up next to the three hours of gray garbage that is BvS than SS will win every time.
 
BvS feels like an actual movie. Bloated, with its fair share of stupid elements, but there's a competent film buried in there, with a discernible structure intact. Plus Batfleck is pretty much in his own parallel and legit good Batman film for most of his screentime. Also, Wonder Woman is good, the cinematography is competent, and the action (as far as Bats and WW are concerned) is actually dynamic and well choreographed, in stark contrast to SS's embarrassingly bland and static "action" scenes.

SS is a grab bag of disparate parts cobbled together into something that barely resembles a proper movie. Sloppy structure, a totally barebones plot, a schizophrenic style and tone, and a villain that the team is ill suited to take out. The only element that feels even close to fully baked is the characterization of a few Squad members—namely Deadshot, Harley, and El Diablo.
 
easily BvS. (even the theatrical version with the chopped up editing)

ss is the most unfortunate theater experience of the year. watch the deadshot intro and shooting range scene on youtube tho. it's dope.
 
Batman v Superman, no contest.

BvS is a deeply flawed, badly edited, pretentious, overly long slog of a film. Suicide Squad's not even a movie.

BvS is better by definition.
 
BvS easily.

Watched the Ultimate Cut yesterday for the first time, and it helped with some problems of the movie, while introducing some others, mainly related to Batman. Overall preffered that version though.

Suicide Squad is one of the worst movies I've seen in a decade.
 
sarcastor said:
Whoever wins, ww lose.
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True but BvS was so horrible and not just because it was a terrible awful crap movie but because it was the first movie with Batman and Superman and because of the director it was crap.

Suicide squad wasnt as reprehensible as BvS. The whole Martha scene, horrible lex Luther, pacing issues, dialogue heck the whole movie was bad.
 
I'd say neither is a good film. But if I had to choose one, Suicide Squad wins by a big margin. At least that movie is fun thanks to Deadshot and Harley Quinn interactions.

BvS felt incredibly dark without any real reason. It's the second film in DCCU, I know nothing about the new Batman, why haven't they released a standalone movie first? Why does everything feel like an advertisement for Justice League? Why do I need to sit for an hour just so I can understand how Batman gets some kryptonite?

BvS should have happened in a few years IMO. That way people would feel more attached to the characters and the whole film would have felt more meaningful. They could have built the conflict through a few films until the whole thing explodes.
 
I prefer Suicide Squad for sure. Both movies have significant flaws, but Batman V Superman is built on the train wreck of a film Man of Steel. As a result, it inherits many of the character and plot disasters of that movie on top of its own flaws. Suicide Squad has many problems, but at least it's starting from the ground floor. BvS is underground from the beginning and keeps on digging.
 
XAL said:
He CHOSE to have Thomas Wayne provoking the mugger.

The murder is not always depicted in that way. In fact I'd argue it's more often depicted as a completely senseless murder, with Thomas Wayne being shot first or stepping in front of Martha or that part of the killing not even deemed important enough to show.

Given his Zack's sensibilities it would make sense that he would choose Thomas provoking the attacker for his depiction of the mugging because he deemed that was important for him to show.

Pearls exploding all over the place = cheap necklace = Thomas Wayne bought his wife a cheap pearl necklace? It's just a conclusion drawn from a fact. I guess it's petty? But the movie/Zack Snyder has much bigger problems and I touched on some of those which is why I said more stuff other than the pearls.
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It's almost as if you are ignoring a lot of Batman's portayal in BvS is based on TDKR. Using TDKR's version of the mugging is consistent with the rest of what was being presented. You have a really weak argument here. It's fine if you didn't like it but what Snyder did wasn't some abstract concept he pulled out of thin air.

And harping on the pearls is such a small petty thing. Like in what way does that even matter?
 
BvS by far.
While it is a bad movie it's far from the train wreck that is SS. That movie is just a couple of disjointed pictures put together. It's easily the worst big budget movie of this decade.
 
Easily Suicide Squad, I thought it was a lot of fun but fairly forgettable (felt the same about Deadpool earlier this year). It also had a fantastic soundtrack. Didn't really like the Joker though.

BvS just makes me tired. Boring in just about every way.
 
Batman v Superman UE is far better than the shit that was Suicide Squad.

Saying that Suicide Squad is still better than Batman v Superman TC. But dear God, both are terrible.
 
Both movies were cut to bits in the edit. I hope SS gets and extended cut like BvS did, as that improved the movie quite a lot, even if it didn't fix all of the problems with it..

I hope cutting bits out doesn't become the norm with DC movies, just to get the run time down, because its clearly not working or they need some better editors because they made a mess of both movies.
 
BvS for sure for me. At least it tries to do something. There is some ambition there and a couple of good moments. Suicide Squad feels lazy all the way through from the montage intros to lets throw music at everything to the nothing plot to the dialogue. Neither are good though.
 
I won't feel like I've actually seen Suicide Squad until I see a director's cut. So far I've only seen one of six or seven versions of the film, which was a bizarre mess edited together by people that usually cut trailers.
 
Is it no OK to feel sorry for Superman? No one ever praises Cavill's performance even though he acts the hell out of his scenes.

Is it not Lex Luthor's Job as Superman's Arch Nemesis to serve Superman Shit Sandwiches on a daily basis?

Is it not Lex Luthor JOB as one of the greatest criminal masterminds in the DCU to plot to turn the US government against Superman? To be able to use The Batman as his unwitting PAWN in that master scheme?

These people are doing are being true to who they are just without the trappings of Saturday morning holding them back. What's the problem?

People bitch about Superman not smiling in this Movie but what the fuck does he have to smile ABOUT other then when saving the girl in Mexico and when he's with Lois?

People praise Batman in this movie even though he's clearly gone off the deep end. Batman is one of the villains in BvS but he thinks he's the hero, it's Fucked up that many Batman fans think so too that's why they Mock the MARTHA scene.

That scene is Batman realizing he's BECOME the weak and cowardly lot. He's Become Joe Chill.
 
BvS by a wee bit. BvS could have been a God tier CBM had Snyder and the writing team not complete fuck up a few key moments in the movie (along with the editing team, I haven't seen the UC)
 
Incidentally, BvS has fostered a strong ssense of hostility towards "fix cuts" of movies and the way people use them to discredit criticism based off the theatrical release. Batman V Superman was a burning wreck masquerading as a movie when I saw it in the cinema, why should I give it a second chance? I'm not going to stop tearing into what I saw because "they fixed it now, I swear!" either.
 
Wiseblade said:
Incidentally, BvS has fostered a strong ssense of hostility towards "fix cuts" of movies and the way people use them to discredit criticism based off the theatrical release. Batman V Superman was a burning wreck masquerading as a movie when I saw it in the cinema, why should I give it a second chance? I'm not going to stop tearing into what I saw because "they fixed it now, I swear!" either.
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It's just a movie, homie. Get a grip.
 
This is a hard one. Overall BvS is a little better but if It's so fucking long that I don't feel like rewatching.
Hell I have yet to see the Ultimate Cut because the teathrical one was already long as fuck. Atleast SS is rather short...
 
I'd say the the ultimate cut is a decent film up until Doomsday. And it recovers directly after it. I feel we would have had a more positive reaction if it had released theatrically. Pretty solid. Luthor is all over the shop. Some scenes I get it and others I'm like why?

I like Deadshot, Waller, Enchantress and Boomerang in Suicide Squad. Everything else was a massive misfire. Robbie was a great Harley but Harley is shit character to begin with. They fast forward the only meat in her character in a flashback. I don't know how we are supposed to feel about Joker/Harley. Are we rooting for them. I don't think so. I don't know.
 
Messofanego said:
Suicide Squad, even though I wouldn't recommend either.

I like that one fight in Batman vs Superman where Batman wrecks shop. I just saw it on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyVPh3Usrho

Didn't have to pay to see the best scene! :D
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I know it's been said before but this scene belongs in a captain America flick instead. In theatres it was a shock after trying to piece together wtf was going on in the movie up to that point, but now after seeing it again it holds up even worse.
 
Suicide Squad isn't a movie, its a bunch of youtube clips slammed together. The opening introduction of the characters feels like it takes forever and feels tonally out of place with what comes after, mainly because the horrific score and constantly rotating camera around the table, adds to the tempo. The worst part about the intros is that they are redundant, as the characters have individual moments throughout the movie that tell almost the exact same thing that the flashy beginning was trying to get across.

If I was Leto, I'd be pissed, because they took his obvious low key moments out of the movie and left him with a high strung super intense character that doesn't realize they're more poser than terror. What the gutting of the joker also does is rob Harley Quinn of having actual moments of growth. For instance, allegedly in the original cut, Leto sweet talks Harley about how he's not abusive to get her from the group and then after fighting him, shoves her out of the helicopter. In the theatrical release, she goes without a fuss, and then only because the helicopter gets dropped, she rejoins the group. It makes no sense for the group to want her back, after leaving them to die, yet el Fuego talks about not wanting to lose another family.

The rest of the characters are pretty much bullet points, with Killer croc given the pity role of taking the sewers. Deadshot is surprisingly gross and they do nothing with it, other than say he has a heart of gold(his child). Capt Boom with the most improbable power of having a boomerang that spins but can still take a straight camera shot, oh and he kind of swipes at a couple people. Which is the main problem with the film. Why are the people who are mainly hand to hand and projectile base taking on literal magic creatures, something Supes would have a problem with. Harley tossing Deadshot a gun was so laughably bad.

Even if you don't like the characters, arguably you're not supposed to in some cases, BvS is a movie that's tonally consistent, has a script that isn't put together with crazy glue, shot beautifully, and attempts to bring another dynamic to comic book movies, whether or not its appreciated.
 
BvS: Ultimate Cut

If you had asked me right after I watched Suicide Squad, I would have answered that, but the more I thought about the movie, the less I liked it. The characters made it more "entertaining", but overall BvS:UC is a better movie. SS is barely a movie at all.
 
I think I preferred Suicide Squad, but I don't really remember why anymore. I suppose that I preferred bad characters that do good things for no reason than good characters doing bad things for no reason.
 
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