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Super Bowl XLV - Enjoy It: There Might Not Be One Next Year

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TheLegendary said:
He's setting it up so that if Ben does even halfway decent he can claim he's the greatest QB of all time.
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Lets say Ben has a great game and throws for 3 TDs and 280 yards (with 4+ sacks) behind that line, wouldn't you say that is one of the best qb performances of all time considering how bad the line is?
 
mastershake said:
Ez is trolling Packer-GAF :(
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I'm not. I've shown time and again that his numbers simply aren't any better than anyone else, so you guys point to the fact that you feel like he "always falls forward." Fine. Whatever. Point to True Believers I guess. But how does falling forward make you a good third down back?

I'm not saying he can't be a good receiver out of the backfield (he certainly was in college) or that he won't ever learn to read a blitz (I haven't heard that he is dumb) but so far he has done neither in the NFL. He does fall forward though. Bully for him.
 
Talon- said:
God damnit, Ez. Not again.
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:jakncoke

He does have a point though. I've been a huge Starks fan since he was drafted, and although I think he's definitely capable of the role (3rd down) he hasn't proven it yet.

bionic77 said:
You don't think it is a factor between starting 2 starting caliber offensive lineman (like we would with Pouncey and Kemo) versus 1 (just Kemo and surrounding him by 4 backups like we are about to do)?
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Of course any time there's an injury it's a factor, but I'm just saying I don't see it being a deciding factor because you've been dealing with a terrible O-line for a while.
 
eznark said:
I'm not. I've shown time and again that his numbers simply aren't any better than anyone else, so you guys point to the fact that you feel like he "always falls forward." Fine. Whatever. Point to True Believers I guess. But how does falling forward make you a good third down back?

I'm not saying he can't be a good receiver out of the backfield (he certainly was in college) or that he won't ever learn to read a blitz (I haven't heard that he is dumb) but so far he has done neither in the NFL. He does fall forward though. Bully for him.
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He is a better overall back because of the fact he is always falling forward. Jackson would have had us in 3rd and long all day against that bears D. Jackson doesn't find the hole as good as Starks and any kind of contact is enough to bring him down. Starks can shed tackles a run through people considerably better than jackson.

Starks has played well in 2 playoff games. I know you are pissed at him cause he ran out of bounds instead of turning it up field with 4 minutes on the clock but do you really think jackson would have played well against that bears D? That was the best the bears D we played all season. The two previous meetings, jackson ran for 12yds with a 1.7 average and 19 yards for a 2.7 average. He would have been eaten alive by that bears D.
 
bionic77 said:
Lets say Ben has a great game and throws for 3 TDs and 280 yards (with 4+ sacks) behind that line, wouldn't you say that is one of the best qb performances of all time considering how bad the line is?
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You're the one who keeps saying they're a bad line. I'm not going to say they're great or anything because I dont watch all of their games but that same horrible line somehow managed to have a huge day running against the Jets who are a great run D. And somehow despite the fact that youve claimed that any other QB but Ben would die having to go behind that line, your backups went 3-1 when he was gone.

Are they a good O-Line? No, probably not. But I think you exaggerate a fair amount. But it's hard to tell what you're being serious about.
 
mastershake said:
He is a better overall back because of the fact he is always falling forward. Jackson would have had us in 3rd and long all day against that bears D. Jackson doesn't find the hole as good as Starks and any kind of contact is enough to bring him down. Starks can shed tackles a run through people considerably better than jackson.

Starks has played well in 2 playoff games. I know you are pissed at him cause he ran out of bounds instead of turning it up field with 4 minutes on the clock but do you really think jackson would have played well against that bears D? That was the best the bears D we played all season. The two previous meetings, jackson ran for 12yds with a 1.7 average and 19 yards for a 2.7 average. He would have been eaten alive by that bears D.
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None of this has anything to do with Starks being a good third down back. Sorry. Also, Starks has played well in one playoff game. Sorry, but he was not good against the Bears no matter what your heart tells you.

I feel like I'm in a Twilight Zone episode sometimes talking about Starks with Packer fans. It boggles my mind that people are so sold on the guy already. Brandon Jackson is despised by Packers fans because he is a shitty back who apparently can't find the hole and goes down at the drop of a hat. His yards per carry this season was 3.7. James Starks is lauded and loved by Packer faithful because he hits the hole hard, breaks tackles, and falls forward! His playoffs have been phenominal! Look at his production in the playoffs, eznark! 3.7 yards per carry, hall of fame numbers!!!!!
 
TheLegendary said:
You're the one who keeps saying they're a bad line. I'm not going to say they're great or anything because I dont watch all of their games but that same horrible line somehow managed to have a huge day running against the Jets who are a great run D. And somehow despite the fact that youve claimed that any other QB but Ben would die having to go behind that line, your backups went 3-1 when he was gone.

Are they a good O-Line? No, probably not. But I think you exaggerate a fair amount.
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As a neutral third party, I can attest it's a godawful line. I mean, hell, their tackles by themselves are just a joke. Jonathan Scott is hilariously slow to react. Flozell is old and busted - though he hasn't been tripping as many folks this year.

Run block doesn't translate to good pass protection always. First of all, Rashard just had a beastly day. There were a good amount of runs that should have been stopped for short yardage, but he ran with a purpose. The fact that they were able to run early helped them in protection. As you know from last year, the biggest thing that suffers from being one dimensional is the pass protection. When your line has to step back and can't force the issue, the front 7 will wear them down.
 
eznark said:
I'm not. I've shown time and again that his numbers simply aren't any better than anyone else, so you guys point to the fact that you feel like he "always falls forward." Fine. Whatever. Point to True Believers I guess. But how does falling forward make you a good third down back?

I'm not saying he can't be a good receiver out of the backfield (he certainly was in college) or that he won't ever learn to read a blitz (I haven't heard that he is dumb) but so far he has done neither in the NFL. He does fall forward though. Bully for him.
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He's shown he can catch passes. He hasn't shown he can pick up the blitz yet. He missed a lot of practice though, so I'm being optimistic and saying he'll learn.

Numbers mean shit. At least football outsiders numbers. The offense is better with him in the game. Jackson is the better 3rd down back, but not by some huge margin that would make him a huge loss.
 
Elfforkusu said:
He's shown he can catch passes. He hasn't shown he can pick up the blitz yet. He missed a lot of practice though, so I'm being optimistic and saying he'll learn.

Numbers mean shit. At least football outsiders numbers. The offense is better with him in the game. Jackson is the better 3rd down back, but not by some huge margin that would make him a huge loss.
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5 career receptions.

5

career


receptions......................

UByWz.gif
 
eznark said:
None of this has anything to do with Starks being a good third down back. Sorry. Also, Starks has played well in one playoff game. Sorry, but he was not good against the Bears no matter what your heart tells you.

I feel like I'm in a Twilight Zone episode sometimes talking about Starks with Packer fans. It boggles my mind that people are so sold on the guy already. Brandon Jackson is despised by Packers fans because he is a shitty back who apparently can't find the hole and goes down at the drop of a hat. His yards per carry this season was 3.7. James Starks is lauded and loved by Packer faithful because he hits the hole hard, breaks tackles, and falls forward! His playoffs have been phenominal! Look at his production in the playoffs, eznark! 3.7 yards per carry, hall of fame numbers!!!!!
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He played well vs the bears, but whatever, we will have to agree to disagree. The whole damn offense was shut down in the second half. What did you seriously expect from him? Especially with briggs and Urlacher running free.

Like i said, jackson didnt do shit with his two shots at that bears D. He would have been eaten alive and you know it.

Jackson vs the bears in two games

1.9 ypc (1st game)
2.7 ypc (2nd game)
31 yards
0 TD

Starks vs a bears D playing out of their minds

3.5 ypc (4.7 ypc first half)
74 yards
1TD

Also, saying starks has played well is not me lauding him or saying hes somehow fucking amazing or a hall of famer. I am saying he is better than jackson, that is all. Why does this discussion need to be so dramatic?
 
TheLegendary said:
You're the one who keeps saying they're a bad line. I'm not going to say they're great or anything because I dont watch all of their games but that same horrible line somehow managed to have a huge day running against the Jets who are a great run D. And somehow despite the fact that youve claimed that any other QB but Ben would die having to go behind that line, your backups went 3-1 when he was gone.

Are they a good O-Line? No, probably not. But I think you exaggerate a fair amount. But it's hard to tell what you're being serious about.
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Yeah I don't think your opinion is that great on this.

I agree that their success is baffling because trust me I never predicted it and that is why I keep saying that we have the worst starting offensive line in SB history. If you actually knew anything about Scott, Legursky or Foster you wouldn't be arguing this point with me. I expect you to at least know who Flozell Adams is though and admit that he was washed up years ago.

I guess Ben winning behind the worst offensive line in SB history is not impressive to you then because you will just say that they can't be that bad if he does well, but damn if that isn't Stuart Scott levels of analysis.

edit: Also the line was only missing one player for the first 4 games and was really playing well until the injury bug just destroyed it to the point we are at now.
 
eznark said:
5 career receptions.

5

career


receptions......................

UByWz.gif
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I'm counting college. Sue me. Ball is the same size. He's played 5 games in the NFL, goddamn!

Besides, those 5 catches were sweet!

DeaconKnowledge said:
Kool-Aid for everyone!
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This is actually verfiable, insofar as balanced playcalling == better. Admittedly, playcalling is dependent on a hidden variable (Mike McCarthy), so it's entirely possible that I'm making a false equivalency.

Still, I'll trust my eyes. Grant/Starks futures!
 
TheLegendary said:
You're the one who keeps saying they're a bad line. I'm not going to say they're great or anything because I dont watch all of their games but that same horrible line somehow managed to have a huge day running against the Jets who are a great run D. And somehow despite the fact that youve claimed that any other QB but Ben would die having to go behind that line, your backups went 3-1 when he was gone.

Are they a good O-Line? No, probably not. But I think you exaggerate a fair amount. But it's hard to tell what you're being serious about.
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Watch more Steelers football and you'll understand
 
bionic77 said:
I guess Ben winning behind the worst offensive line in SB history is not impressive to you then because you will just say that they can't be that bad if he does well, but damn if that isn't Stuart Scott levels of analysis.
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Except I didnt say that. It's fine though. That's your thing.
 
I wasn't paying enough attention to James Starks to really evaluate his individual performance, but I guess you could make the argument that the Packers offense has become more balanced just by the addition of what McCarthy 'believes' to be a superior running back. Other than that I don't understand this argument at all.
 
jakncoke said:
Watch more Steelers football and you'll understand
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I'll attest to this. Steelers games are almost comical what with how people get to Ben and he uses his Hulk like strength to break free. I wish he'd start trucking people. That o-line sucks.
 
If the steelers want to play the cardinals in ireland they can go fuck themselves and take the home game. We already burned a home game playing in a different country.
 
TheLegendary said:
Since everyone is so enamored with Football Outsiders and their stats, they rank Pitts line around the middle of the road. The Packers are below it.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

My argument was never that they're good or great. Having Pouncey out doesn't all of a sudden mean they drop off significantly because of it.
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Backfire.

Losing a starting center's a huge deal, especially from Pouncey to some dude from Marshall. The line has trouble with protection anyways, now they're leaning on a 3rd year UDFA to make those calls.
 
DeaconKnowledge said:
You don't even need to watch a whole season:

just watch this video. Scott may as well have not been there.
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Scott must have lead or be close to the lead in the category of totally whiffing on blocks. Especially for a left tackle!

TheLegendary said:
My argument was never that they're good or great. Having Pouncey out doesn't all of a sudden mean they drop off significantly because of it.
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Hey you have been wrong about everything else, hopefully you are right about this one!

I will dedicate the SB victory to you if Legursky can stop Raji.
 
Take those stats with a grain of salt, anyway. Indy's ranked at the top but our line was pretty bad this year. Manning's quick release accounts for a lack of sacks more than great protection. Half the reason our passing game suffered was because he didn't have enough time in the pocket to let long plays develop.
 
Sorry but I gotta think an undersized Center playing against a mediocre Jets front 4 who had 2 fumbled snaps will have some effect on the game against one of best playing D-Lineman in the NFL.

That's just me being logical. So silly.
 
Buckethead said:
Sorry but I gotta think an undersized Center playing against a mediocre Jets front 4 who had 2 fumbled snaps will have some effect on the game against one of best playing D-Lineman in the NFL.

That's just me being logical. So silly.
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That is what I said as well, but Legendary is going to prove us all wrong and be the hero and Messiah of Pittsburgh when we get no. 7 and Legursky is named the MVP after we run for 500 yards.

My logic on Legendary is that he is wrong so often that he is really long overdue to get something right, and SB Sunday will be that day!
 
bionic77 said:
Hey you have been wrong about everything else, hopefully you are right about this one!

I will dedicate the SB victory to you if Legursky can stop Raji.
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Im just following your lead! You just told me yesterday that Raji will be too distracted eating chicken wings to beat Legursky. Now I know better than to base my decisions on your analysis!
 
TheLegendary said:
Im just following your lead! You just told me yesterday that Raji will be too distracted eating chicken wings to beat Legursky. Now I know better than to base my decisions on your analysis!
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No backsies!

You are going to be a Steelers hero who will not soon be forgotten.
 
eznark said:
Squatter.

And catching at the collegiate level does not quite equal being a proven NFL receiver. Shocking news.
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Okay, fair enough. But he's a running back.

This sort of argument is why the week off before the Super Bowl is terrible.

"He's average!"
"No, he's mediocre!"
"Average!"
"Mediocre!"
 
I haven't really gotten a chance to hear Polamalu's voice much until the past few weeks. Holeee shit. Dude needs to learn how to paint and start a PBS show after he retires.
 
DBebm5 said:
I haven't really gotten a chance to hear Polamalu's voice much until the past few weeks. Holeee shit. Dude needs to learn how to paint and start a PBS show after he retires.
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Someone should photoshop his head on Bob Ross.
 
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