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Super Mario Maker: Jose's Terrifying Ghost Mansion

Kouriozan said:
Oh man, this game has so much trolling potential.
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Just wait till I make my springboard level that has bouncing bullet bill cannons that fire thwomps with wings. Dont jump under those flying bad boys. Oh and...watchout for cannons that fire springboards into you in order to bounce you back into spike walls and boos ;)
 
Not bad, Altano. Imo hidden blocks for the purpose of challenge isn't that great of a mechanic, but these hidden blocks seem to be consistent, as in every jump has them at just about the same place, so it does makes sense and, after the first one, isn't random.

I like how Jose randomly flips the Peach amiboo and is then instantly putting it back nicely, lol.
 
Brian, I really liked your level

loved the invisible troll blocks. you placed them in such a way that if Jose hit one it meant his jump was going to be short anyway.
 
LonelyGreyWolf said:
Not bad, Altano. Imo hidden blocks for the purpose of challenge isn't that great of a mechanic, but these hidden blocks seem to be consistent, as in every jump has them at just about the same place, so it does makes sense and, after the first one, isn't random.

I like how Jose randomly flips the Peach amiboo and is then instantly putting it back nicely, lol.
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Yeah, I specifically put them in the exact same spot on every jump to maintain a rhythm and frequency of your jumps rather than go for cheap deaths. I think placing them randomly is pretty crappy design. The doughnut blocks also worked as context sensitive pads: every time one lights up, that's the moment you need to jump. All of that means that if you hit an invisible block, that's your fault and not the level's :)
 
I guess I don't get why it's an auto-scroller, because you're dictating to the player how fast you should be going. If it weren't, it'd be up to the player to dictate the pace, allowing for more mistakes/deaths to occur because they'd have to figure out the level's rhythm for themselves.
 
BrianAltano said:
Yeah, I specifically put them in the exact same spot on every jump to maintain a rhythm and frequency of your jumps rather than go for cheap deaths. I think placing them randomly is pretty crappy design. The doughnut blocks also worked as context sensitive pads: every time one lights up, that's the moment you need to jump. All of that means that if you hit an invisible block, that's your fault and not the level's :)
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Ah yeah, good thinking with the doughnut blocks. Very cool stuff, nicely done.
 
ErrorMacro said:
There is potential for some interesting competitions. For example, you have a set of custom levels designed, and speedrunners compete to run them in the fastest time possible with limited training time.

Or custom levels specifically designed with speedrunning in mind.
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I think a big issue with that idea is that everyone who speed runs the game would need to have this exact set of custom levels. Granted it wouldn't be hard to get them, but it's definitely iffier than a typical speed run.
 
BrianAltano said:
Thanks guys! Lots of people have been complaining that most SMM levels have been more about overwhelming the player with giant enemies and such and I wanted to make a more "pure" level that was based on pure platforming skill. That turned out to be really fun because I kept testing every inch of it based on momentum to place blocks as far as Mario could jump.

Fun anecdote: the end of the level was kind of rushed because we were short on time constraints for our studio session coming next, so I had to "ship" the level before making it as tight as it could possibly be SO HEY, NOW I UNDERSTAND RUSHED GAMES.
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That was awesome.
How long did it take you to make the level?
 
BrianAltano said:
Yeah, I specifically put them in the exact same spot on every jump to maintain a rhythm and frequency of your jumps rather than go for cheap deaths. I think placing them randomly is pretty crappy design. The doughnut blocks also worked as context sensitive pads: every time one lights up, that's the moment you need to jump. All of that means that if you hit an invisible block, that's your fault and not the level's :)
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I love the video and listen to NVC every week. About how long did it take for you to design and test this level?
 
KingBroly said:
I guess I don't get why it's an auto-scroller, because you're dictating to the player how fast you should be going. If it weren't, it'd be up to the player to dictate the pace, allowing for more mistakes/deaths to occur because they'd have to figure out the level's rhythm for themselves.
Click to expand...

I actually set it to that auto-scroll speed (Cheetah, the fastest of three possible auto-scrolls) to dictate the pace from the start, and also because I believe I was hitting a point where the "camera" wasn't catching up to the player as quickly as I was forcing them to get through the stage.

This stage took me like 80 minutes to make and I easily could've spent another 80 minutes tweaking little things like that and getting it perfect, but I'm happy with what I made in that time.
 
RagnarokX said:
This is what I'm talking about. You're trying to compare the first couple of worlds to the entirety of games you already played for over a decade and a half. All Mario games build up the complexity and challenge as they go. The first levels usually aren't going to stack up when you're remembering stuff from late in the other games.

When does NSMBWii and NSMBU get good? Well, if we're comparing to the older Mario games, immediately. As far as 2D Mario goes, NSMBWii and NSMBU have some of the best opening worlds. Here is every level in SMW: http://www.mariomayhem.com/downloads/mario_game_maps/super_mario_world_levels.php. Look at the first few worlds. The levels there are pretty plain and empty. None of that is better than what NSMBU does. NSMBU's levels are huge yet densely packed and brimming with ideas at every turn. When does SMW get good if NSMBU's levels are boring?

There unfortunately are not maps for NSMBWii or NSMBU, except for this one I made myself of 1-1 in NSMBU for another thread: http://i.imgur.com/PJCZDo2.jpg for a comparison of level lengths across games: http://i.imgur.com/cW7LbdP.jpg. I can describe the levels though for the sake of comparison:

1-1 Acorn Plains Way: A plain level (pun intended) to introduce the super acorn. Designed with speedrunning non-stop in mind.
1-2 Tilted Tunnel: An underground level featuring giant crystal platforms that move when you interact with them. Contains a secret exit that takes you to 1-Blooper and World 5.
1-Tower: Crushing-Cogs Tower: First tower of the game. Have to navigate giant spinning cogs.
1-3: Yoshi Hill: Yoshi introduction level. Monty moles on spinning hills and cliffs.
1-4: Mushroom Heights: Simple mushroom level to introduce balloon baby yoshi.
1-5: Rise of the Piranha Plants: Level filled with tons of piranha plants of various sizes on moving platforms.
1-Castle: Lemmy's Swingback Castle: Most of the floor is lava and most of the platforms are swinging like pendulums.
1-Blooper: Blooper's Secret Lair: An underwater level set in a cave filled with pipes shooting current that move and bloopers.

2-1: Stone-eye Zone: Moai-like stone heads move up and down and fall in various ways in a desert level with quicksand and sand geysers. Designed for speedruns.
2-2: Perilous Pokey Cave: Cave level filled with pokeys all over the place with quicksand and sand geysers. Second part of the level is pitch black and filled with pokeys and swoopers.
2-3: Fire Snake Cavern: A pitch black cave filled with fire bros and fire snakes that makes good use of dynamic lighting. Features glowing baby yoshi to light your way and stun enemies.
2-Tower: Stoneslide Tower: You have to spin on top of cranks to move stone platforms and other elements.
2-4: Spike's Spouting Sands: Spikes (the enemy) roll spiked balls along the ground. They travel up and down hills and are pushed into the air by sand geysers and are affected by gravity. Secret exit to Piranha Plants on Ice and World 5.
2-5: Dry Desert Mushrooms: Spikes (the enemy) toss their spiked balls straight down from above as you ride moving platforms and navigate shrinking/expanding mushrooms.
2-6: Blooming Lakitus: Lakitu tosses seeds that grow into piranha plants wherever they land. Most of the ground is moving so the piranha plants move along with it.
2-Castle: Morton's Compactor Castle: Lava-filled castle where most of the platforms are giant blocks that move in and out to crush you.
2-Ice: Piranha Plants on Ice: An ice level featuring a ton of venus fire traps and small ice platforms that melt when hit by fire, causing giant ice blocks they support to fall.

I made screen caps for every level for a previous thread:

World 1:
gcJaRtU.png


World 2:
2oQLZYy.png


World 3:
3MPeqBT.png


World 4:
f65Aqle.png


World 5:
ZwB0omh.png


World 6:
sDxazFp.png


World 7:
oXCEg2x.png


World 8:
JU7QkcC.png


One of the things I love about NSMB in general is that every level has a very unique identity that sets it apart from every other level. It keeps things fresh and makes the levels more memorable. SMB3 was like that, too. Just looking at the images above there are so many levels I have very fond memories of. It's the pinnacle of EAD's 2D Mario creativity and craftsmanship.

Anyway, I'm very much looking forward to this. Easily my most anticipated title this year. I can't wait to make levels.
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TLDR;

I didn't compare them to games I played a decade ago. I judge them by my expectations of games today. The early worlds in NSMB are boring. It's silly to me that anyone would defend putting players to sleep with designs like these. Clearly, we just respectfully disagree on this one. I do appreciate your passion for those games. But I can't agree with you here.
 
lordy88 said:
Meh, I guess I'm spoiled by Asshole Mario.

If you have the time, this one is my favorite. Brilliant level design.
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Fuck this shit. I saw it all the way to the end. The very last room with the big goal post is the biggest troll ever. You stand there looking like a dumbass wondering how to get through to the big goal post. Then this red shell comes out of nowhere, opens the path up for you only to kill it immediately afterward. Guy has to have the patience of a saint to finish this level. If I didn't rage quit before reaching that last goal post room, I'd rage quit right there. Probably break my computer/TV/console all at the same time too, haha.
 
That's an pretty good level. I generally don't enjoy mario levels where all you have to do is hold right and jump at every edge. It's not very engaging. It's like playing on auto pilot.

However, Brian mixed things up enough that Jose couldn't go on autopilot. Different timing for different jumps and all that.

You guys should put your heads together and make a level. Jose's was a little more interesting, but Brian's was a little more challenging. Get a third person in there and have them play a level you both worked on.
 
joseotero said:
TLDR;

I didn't compare them to games I played a decade ago. I judge them by my expectations of games today. The early worlds in NSMB are boring. It's silly to me that anyone would defend putting players to sleep with designs like these. Clearly, we just respectfully disagree on this one. I do appreciate your passion for those games. But I can't agree with you here.
Click to expand...

Poor Jose. Fun fact: After I played Mario Maker at one of the Best Buy events back in June, I posted my simple gameplay impressions on what the jumping physics felt like and RagnarokX jumped in and told me I didn't know what I was talking about because even though he's never played the game, he has the correct understanding of the game's "true physics" because he is a psychology major and "even people who are witnesses in criminal trials are often unreliable" so why should my first hand impressions of the game be trusted? No I'm not making this up.

Also, I think viewing the game from the canonical "variety of worlds" perspective isn't the right way to approach it due the game's very nature. I think of Mario Maker more of "Here's this amazing tool which let's you make sweet 'Special Zone' stages any time you want!"

Edit: BTW Jose it'd be awesome if you guys had a rematch! You need revenge on Brian! :p
 
I hope in addition to the super-hard levels, people will be interested in making "Nintendo"-style Mario levels for the lack of a better term. Good levels don't have to be extremely challenging.
 
I really hope you guys make this a series. Even the idea discussed on NVC where each week you will playtest a new level submission every week. It's gonna be tough to filter out trolling levels to actual intellectual level design. Possibilities are endless which is a double edged sword. You don't know what you're gonna get and at the same time, you don't know what you are going to get.

There's so much potential with this game that it caught me off guard. Being a game dev myself, this can only be inspiring to future game devs.

But seriously Brian, I'm impressed with the speed run side scroller design. Like you said, placing those hidden troll blocks actually took thought rather than just placing it before a jump.

Jose, you're up. ;)
 
Agent Unknown said:
Poor Jose. Fun fact: After I played Mario Maker at one of the Best Buy events back in June, I posted my simple gameplay impressions on what the jumping physics felt like and RagnarokX jumped in and told me I didn't know what I was talking about because even though he's never played the game, he has the correct understanding of the game's "true physics" because he is a psychology major and "even people who are witnesses in criminal trials are often unreliable" so why should my first hand impressions of the game be trusted? No I'm not making this up.

Also, I think viewing the game from the canonical "variety of worlds" perspective isn't the right way to approach it due the game's very nature. I think of Mario Maker more of "Here's this amazing tool which let's you make sweet 'Special Zone' stages any time you want!"

Edit: BTW Jose it'd be awesome if you guys had a rematch! You need revenge on Brian! :p
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That...could've been a window for asking him how he felt the physics reacted between styles compared to the originals. Unless they mentioned that in one of these videos and I missed it.
 
joseotero said:
The next video doesn't have me or Brian in it, but you guys should totally watch it. Look for it this Friday!
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Jose, question per my reply above if you have time: When I played the game at Best Buy I used the editor in one of the sample levels (Airship Jr.) to switch it from SMW style to SMB 3 and when I did that it definitely felt like the jumping physics for the SMB 3 tile set
were authentic to the NES game when replaying the stage in SMB 3 style versus when I played the same level as a SMW stage. From what you have seen, do the different tile sets seem to emulate the jumping physics from their respective original titles or do all four tile sets seem to share the same physics set?
 
RagnarokX said:
World 1:
gcJaRtU.png


World 2:
2oQLZYy.png


World 3:
3MPeqBT.png


World 4:
f65Aqle.png


World 5:
ZwB0omh.png


World 6:
sDxazFp.png


World 7:
oXCEg2x.png


World 8:
JU7QkcC.png


One of the things I love about NSMB in general is that every level has a very unique identity that sets it apart from every other level. It keeps things fresh and makes the levels more memorable. SMB3 was like that, too. Just looking at the images above there are so many levels I have very fond memories of. It's the pinnacle of EAD's 2D Mario creativity and craftsmanship.

Anyway, I'm very much looking forward to this. Easily my most anticipated title this year. I can't wait to make levels.
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That all looks amazing.
 
These videos were awesome :) I can't wait to try these levels myself, and to see the other levels you make in the future. Thanks for doing this!

Out of curiosity, is the Hammer Bros Suit not in the game? I haven't seen it anywhere in any videos of SMM so far, so I'm thinking the answer is no, but a definite answer would be great.
 
joseotero said:
TLDR;

I didn't compare them to games I played a decade ago. I judge them by my expectations of games today. The early worlds in NSMB are boring. It's silly to me that anyone would defend putting players to sleep with designs like these. Clearly, we just respectfully disagree on this one. I do appreciate your passion for those games. But I can't agree with you here.
Click to expand...
TL;DR is poor etiquette.

What you said was "I make master-level Mario skill platformers; what do you play? New Super Mario Bros?" Sounded like you were comparing to other Mario games to me. In terms of Mario games, those levels aren't boring and are very well-designed, especially compared to SMW's opening worlds. You might think they look boring or are boring compared to other games, but as far as Mario level design goes NSMBU is great. Give NSMBU another shot. Try to get all of the star coins and give challenge mode a twirl. Challenge mode has some crazy stuff like levels were you aren't allowed to touch the ground, levels were you can't touch coins, etc.

Agent Unknown said:
Poor Jose. Fun fact: After I played Mario Maker at one of the Best Buy events back in June, I posted my simple gameplay impressions on what the jumping physics felt like and RagnarokX jumped in and told me I didn't know what I was talking about because even though he's never played the game, he has the correct understanding of the game's "true physics" because he is a psychology major and "even people who are witnesses in criminal trials are often unreliable" so why should my first hand impressions of the game be trusted? No I'm not making this up.

Also, I think viewing the game from the canonical "variety of worlds" perspective isn't the right way to approach it due the game's very nature. I think of Mario Maker more of "Here's this amazing tool which let's you make sweet 'Special Zone' stages any time you want!"

Edit: BTW Jose it'd be awesome if you guys had a rematch! You need revenge on Brian! :p
Click to expand...
No. You said that I seemed silly and obsessed. The insult made me feel bad, but I assumed that I sounded that way because I mentioned psychology stuff, so I explained that the reason I mentioned that stuff is because I have a degree in psychology and that information interests me. I was not saying that my degree made me more perceptive. In fact, I said "I wouldn't even trust my own personal experience." You read half of my first sentence and took the complete opposite meaning of what I said. It was a misunderstanding.

The reason I disagreed with you that the jumping physics are very authentic to the original games is because I measured them and found that they are not:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=174727689&postcount=682

This is a comparison of the jump physics from the actual games Super Mario Maker uses:
XC38rcX.jpg

SMB3 actually surprised me.

And here is what the jumps look like in Super Mario Maker:
9LudMZM.jpg


2ko3H4r.jpg


BYJmcSW.jpg


They're all the same.
 
There are three things that frustrated me about New Super Mario Bros. U:

1. Samey music (I'm REALLY into game music in terms of it in conjunction with play), especially the castle theme. There's simply no excuse for recycling the theme for both the 3DS and Wii U games!

2. The Dessert Land level just feels like... desert. I thought it was going to be a little more imaginative. :/

3. That even though the final world takes place in Peach's castle, the designers decided to make it a lava world (which frustrates me because Bowser used to be more than just lava worlds!). I was really hoping that they'd have a final world that looked a lot like the first world theme-wise, but ridiculously hard (but also unique). They could even have the second-to-last level be a ridiculously difficult rendition of 1-1 from SMB! And then Peach's Castle could have just been a regular castle filled with Bowser baddies and obstacles. No lava pits, no giant cogs, no nothing.

The challenge mode sounds interesting though. In general I just kind of can't get into the New SMB games because even though they all have a lot of stuff that differentiates them from one another, in a lot of ways it just feels like they're doing new things with old things instead of really trying to do something surprising. Like what if the final Bowser world was a moon base?
 
NSMB is aesthetically boring. I won't disagree with that.

But the gameplay is top notch. Mario has the widest moveset in any 2d mario game, and the amount of cool things you can do is off the charts.

Surely you've all seen the super play videos right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3MH3fADMU8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGZ7cILBG4w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHDlJTIYaD0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeoCfeerKIw&index=2&list=PL09w_clXh0S7GxFSqeu7yUqOH8IQU56BN

Everyone in here should watch the entire playlist. Not only to see how amazing NSMBU is, but also to get ideas for Mario Maker. : p

Between Mario's moveset, the level design, the interactions of various level elements, multiplayer, and boost mode, the possibilities are endless. And that doesn't even take into account challenge mode, which is another level of amazing all on its own.

Yes, it's a shame that they decided to go with the boring aesthetic 4 times in a row, but I'd say it's more of a shame that people aren't willing to look past it and engage with one of the most playful and expertly crafted Mario games ever.
 
Gsnap said:
NSMB is aesthetically boring. I won't disagree with that.

But the gameplay is top notch. Mario has the widest moveset in any 2d mario game, and the amount of cool things you can do is off the charts.

Surely you've all seen the super play videos right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3MH3fADMU8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGZ7cILBG4w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHDlJTIYaD0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeoCfeerKIw&index=2&list=PL09w_clXh0S7GxFSqeu7yUqOH8IQU56BN

Everyone in here should watch the entire playlist. Not only to see how amazing NSMBU is, but also to get ideas for Mario Maker. : p

Between Mario's moveset, the level design, the interactions of various level elements, multiplayer, and boost mode, the possibilities are endless. And that doesn't even take into account challenge mode, which is another level of amazing all on its own.

Yes, it's a shame that they decided to go with the boring aesthetic 4 times in a row, but I'd say it's more of a shame that people aren't willing to look past it and engage with one of the most playful and expertly crafted Mario games ever.
Click to expand...

They should do a New Super Mario Bros. collection, where every game has a 2D option.
 
Don't care much for the NSMB series, but NSMBU was the first one in that series I completed 100% (challenges are a different beast).

At times it felt like playing SMW in a new skin and some pah pah pahs. Hell remake a NSMB level and put it in a SMW skin and who would notice.

I look forward to the next vid :)
 
A Link to the Snitch said:
Huh, I never thought about that. What if Fire Flowers can become Ice Flowers? That'd be fucking rad.

(with our luck they'll be Golden Flowers lolololol)
Click to expand...

Or it does absolutely nothing....
i think I tried with the e3 demo and some shaking really didn't do anything at all.

e: There's actually people who hates on NSMBW/U level designs? And they praise boring shit like SMW?
SMW is versatile and can be great but the package known as SMW as it was released on SNES is not exactly impressive. It's a supercharged downgrade of SMB3 that can be abused like no tomorrow. It even has the worst alternate powerups this side of SMB3.
It's kinda too bad that the NSMB game SMM takes after is NSMBW and not NSMBU or we would have gotten the acorn instead of the propeller :/
 
New IGN video: Clown Car Antics

Zack Ryan challenges Mario superfan Sam Claiborn to his level.

"Why did you add the clown at the beginning if you were just going to make a bunch of easy sky to fly through for the rest of the level?"

Luckily they edit the course to remove the clown car and try it again.

Interesting thing I don't think we've seen before is that Bowser can shoot fireballs into the air and have them rain straight down SMW/NSMB style.
 
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