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[The Faceless Master]

The US Supreme Court sided Tuesday with a former Thai student who made $90,000 reselling text books bought abroad and sparked a copyright row with a publisher.

Supap Kirtsaeng, who arrived in the United States in 1997 to study math at the University of Southern California on a scholarship, had asked his friends and family to buy the books, published by John Wiley & Sons, which were cheaper back home.

After receiving them in the mail, he resold hundreds in the United States on eBay, reimbursing his suppliers and pocketing the profit, estimated at $90,000.

John Wiley & Sons filed a complaint in 2008 alleging illegal importation and resale without the payment of exclusive distribution rights protected by copyright.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/...plies-to-lawful-copies-of-a-copyrighted-work/

The 6-3 opinion was authored by Justice Steven Breyer, perhaps the justice most skeptical of intellectual property rights. The dissent was authored by Justice Ruth Ginsburg, who has long favored powerful copyright privileges. Justices Antonin Scalia and Anthony Kennedy also joined the dissent.

...

If the publishers' argument had been accepted, some of the results would have been dramatic. The first sale doctrine would basically stop existing for goods made outside the US, which would actually give corporations a strong incentive to move manufacturing abroad—surely not a result that Congress intended.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/thai-student-protected-by-first-sale-supreme-court-rules/

glad they got this one right.

 

[monchi-kun]

was the rest of your thread title copyrighted?

damnit ... edited!

 

[The Faceless Master]

was the rest of your thread title copyrighted?

damnit ... edited!

sorry, best edits in the business at work here.

 

[Moral Panic]

Any way to get the full document stuff? Not American but I always love reading the Supreme Court docs, very interesting and entertaining.

 

[nckillthegrimace]

Any way to get the full document stuff? Not American but I always love reading the Supreme Court docs, very interesting and entertaining.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/

On the right, Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

 

[Gattsu25]

Any way to get the full document stuff? Not American but I always love reading the Supreme Court docs, very interesting and entertaining.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/11-697_d1o2.pdf

 

[Blu10]

Any way to get the full document stuff? Not American but I always love reading the Supreme Court docs, very interesting and entertaining.

I generally find a good place to get that is the scotus blog. If you haven't been. Worth checking out.

 

[knitoe]

So, it's legal now to buy stuff cheaper overseas and sale them locally making a huge profit? Couldn't this apply to software cd keys?

 

[Guevara]

So, it's legal now to buy stuff cheaper overseas and sale them locally making a huge profit? Couldn't this apply to software cd keys?

And well it should. In this case though, specifically text books.

 

[jayhawker]

So, it's legal now to buy stuff cheaper overseas and sale them locally making a huge profit? Couldn't this apply to software cd keys?

First sale doesn't cover licenses.

 

[devilhawk]

Any guesses on reasoning behind the 6-3 breakdown? Isn't that an odd group of 3 dissenters?

 

[jayhawker]

Any guesses on reasoning behind the 6-3 breakdown? Isn't that an odd group of 3 dissenters?

There are two different code sections that contradict: Section 109 (first sale) and Section 602 (a) (found here). By saying first sale applies, the Court all but gutted 602(a), which says you can't import without permission, or something like that. There are very few cases where that is meaningful at all now. So there's legitimate textual support for either decision. I don't know if that explains the odd split or not.

 

[Jintor]

Interesting. Gotta catch up after the videogame wrassling finishes.

 

[Piecake]

Interesting to see a major decision not basically following the conservative/liberal divide

And glad they got this right. Now if they can go back and redo citizens united...

So, it's legal now to buy stuff cheaper overseas and sale them locally making a huge profit? Couldn't this apply to software cd keys?

Hasnt that been legal since the dawn of time? That basically describes a merchant

 

[QuicheFontaine]

First sale doesn't cover licenses.

That's not yet been decided one way or the other actually.

 

[jayhawker]

That's not yet been decided one way or the other actually.

It's definitely been decided in the 9th Circuit (Vernor v. Autodesk). I don't know if the Supremes have said anything about it or not. I'd be shocked if it went the other way, Europe notwithstanding.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Never understood why "international" versions of textbooks were so much cheaper when they were exactly the same as the US versions.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

It's definitely been decided in the 9th Circuit (Vernor v. Autodesk). I don't know if the Supremes have said anything about it or not. I'd be shocked if it went the other way, Europe notwithstanding.

Bah, you got me. I'm in Europe (well, the UK anyway), where we've had a decision in Usedsoft by the CJEU which says you can resell licences to software. I'll happily defer to you on US law though.

 

[DiscoJer]

Never understood why "international" versions of textbooks were so much cheaper when they were exactly the same as the US versions.

Because they can gouge students in the US.

When a teacher says you have to have a book, you pretty much have to pay for it, regardless of the cost.

The college industry in the US is really awful. Prices were insane when I went 20 years ago and they've gone up and up far beyond inflation.

 

[jayhawker]

Because they can gouge students in the US.

When a teacher says you have to have a book, you pretty much have to pay for it, regardless of the cost.

The college industry in the US is really awful. Prices were insane when I went 20 years ago and they've gone up and up far beyond inflation.

Exactly. It's all about willingness to pay. Textbooks in American universities tend to be the anchor of the class—knowing the contents of the book is the presumptive goal of the average class, or at least the best method of preparing for exams. I'm not sure that's the case overseas. My silly notion of a European university class has an elderly professor smelling of pipe tobacco teaching from his own collection of musty notes.


Edit: This brings up the potential downside to this decision. Publishers may find that the smaller profits they earn in developing markets aren't worth the cost of being undercut by arbitrageurs like Kirtsaeng. If so, those cheaper markets may become under-served. That would be a shame.

 

[Mindlog]

I'll be digging around for more info, but that's a relief to hear. I have no doubt the book publishers are going to get together and find some really stupid way to differentiate their international offerings. Probably just step up the associated software and online 'offerings' in order to fall under the licensing provisions.

 

[Gareth Bale]

My Wiley textbooks have a "Not for sale in the US" sign on the spine.

Why do people want new anyway? Just buy them second hand. You don't need the online code stuff.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Exactly. It's all about willingness to pay. Textbooks in American universities tend to be the anchor of the class—knowing the contents of the book is the presumptive goal of the average class, or at least the best method of preparing for exams. I'm not sure that's the case overseas. My silly notion of a European university class has an elderly professor smelling of pipe tobacco teaching from his own collection of musty notes.


Edit: This brings up the potential downside to this decision. Publishers may find that the smaller profits they earn in developing markets aren't worth the cost of being undercut by arbitrageurs like Kirtsaeng. If so, those cheaper markets may become under-served. That would be a shame.

then someone else will have an opportunity to serve those markets.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

My Wiley textbooks have a "Not for sale in the US" sign on the spine.

Why do people want new anyway? Just buy them second hand. You don't need the online code stuff.

Sometimes you do. Course homework for instance with foreign languages are frequently done this way. Or I know math courses now have an online component that you don't have a choice but to purchase.

And have a copy of the book? Great! Instead of $150 that we were going to charge you, you're going to charge you $125 just for the code instead!.

But yeah otherwise if there is no mandatory code component, used is the way to go. Even if they change editions - usually that just entails chapters in different orders or minor useless info added. Amazon textbooks and other venues saved me quite a bit.

 

[malfcn]

My Wiley textbooks have a "Not for sale in the US" sign on the spine.

Why do people want new anyway? Just buy them second hand. You don't need the online code stuff.

Some classes put all the homework, the ability to turn in work and schedule tests behind the online code. Essentially it's a paywall that forces you to buy the text new, or as said below...a minimal discount (if any).

 

[Coffee Dog]

Holy fuck, genuinely surprised at the decision here. Great news.