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Surgery-age: in two weeks I will be a cyborg

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pirahna1 said:
I'm not saying this will work, but try something for me, and I'm serious here.

Drink 2 full glasses of water, then place a pinch of salt on your tongue - let it dissolve.

Don't call me crazy, but your pain could be caused by severe dehydration. Most doctors don't look for / don't understand the signs of dehydration. Be sure to drink 8+ glasses of water a day and supplement that with a couple pinches of salt - to replace what you'll be urinating away.

Let me know how you feel after a day of this.
I'm calling you crazy. Most doctors (i.e., 99.99999% of them) know how to order a chem panel and understand hypernatremia when they see it, which he most certainly was tested for. And higher concentrations of body salt causes lethargy and swelling far before it can cause pain severe enough to warrant fentanyl.
 

kozmo7

Truly deserves to shoot laserbeams from his eyes
Welcome to the fray man. Right now I am just a low-tech wanna-be cyborg but hopefully in the future I'll get some better tech installed. [Prosthetic with some other modifications :\]

All my problems are from my eyes and I've had many surgeries so I can relate in a way. I can't see that great but hey, I am not blind. Right now I have a band around my right eye [visible if I look to the sides] and the eye itself is filled with a type of ocular oil to keep my tattered retina in place. My other eye, well not much till I get an upgrade.

Crazy stories.. I have a few. I've hyperventilated and had to breath through a lunch bag someone stole from an Intern walking by after my eye hemorrhaged. (Worst pain I've ever felt so far). It smelled like a ham sandwich. Post-op I had my socket tissue pro-lapse down onto my cheek due to an allergic reaction. I looked like a freaking zombie. :lol

I've got more but I don't want to tell them all in one day. Hey, on the bright side you and I will never run out of stuff to tell our Grand kids eh?

I wish you the best, I really do.
 
Well kozmo I'd say your (new? I think it's new) tag is a good fit then. :lol That sounds awful, I wish you the best with it.

As to what this is called, my pain doc uses the term "chronic peripheral neuropathy" for things like insurance forms and other legal documents, but he says that doesn't describe it exactly. My problem is much more severe than it usually is and the presentation of the pain - location, type of pain - is very unusual for neuropathy.

And no it's not dehydration, but I got a kick out of that post (my wife less so).
 

Metalic Sand

who is Emo-Beas?
Wish you the best of luck, Sounds very cool. Being able to control pain and all. Not so much the whole needing surgery for it though.
 

White Man

Member
If it's rude, ignore the question, but roughly what percentage of this is insurance covering?

Good luck, and I hope this brings you some relief.
 

Danielsan

Member
I must say I kinda cringed reading the op, best of luck Echoshifting.

I have been through some surgery of my own. Not to pleasant.
My sternum was basically growing crooked so I decided to have it corrected. In order to do so they had to saw open my chest and break the cartilage surrounding it. Luckily everything went well.
 
White Man said:
If it's rude, ignore the question, but roughly what percentage of this is insurance covering?

Good luck, and I hope this brings you some relief.

Not a rude question at all. My insurance should cover everything as I have already hit my deductible max for the year. I have a plan that requires you to pay all of your expenses until you hit a certain dollar amount, at which point they pay everything. It's a plan that is both a blessing and a curse; I hit my deductible in late March but I'm still paying those bills.

We might pay a small percentage; it's my wife's insurance and she handles it with relatively little input from me. I'll have to ask her in the morning and get back to you.
 

wolfmat

Confirmed Asshole
In the future I foresee, you will rescue mankind to an awesome 80s metal soundtrack live on television.

All the best to you.
 

White Man

Member
echoshifting said:
Not a rude question at all. My insurance should cover everything as I have already hit my deductible max for the year. I have a plan that requires you to pay all of your expenses until you hit a certain dollar amount, at which point they pay everything. It's a plan that is both a blessing and a curse; I hit my deductible in late March but I'm still paying those bills.

We might pay a small percentage; it's my wife's insurance and she handles it with relatively little input from me. I'll have to ask her in the morning and get back to you.

That's promising to hear. I was wondering because this sounds like the sort of procedure that would cost a zillion dollars if insurance scoffed at it. Always nice to know that the system works. . .sometimes :p

I see a psychiatrist tomorrow for the first time in almost a decade. I'm trying to see if I meet the criteria for ADHD. Small potatoes in comparison to you, but I'm nervous, heh.
 
Botolf said:
Transhumanism: It Begins.

I'm curious, will this device affect pains not related to your condition?

I'm not sure, but fentanyl does! :D

Anyway, it would have to be in the particular area, since the leads affect nerves leading to a specific place. But I imagine it would since all pain is caused by the nervous system. That's guesswork though; haven't done any reading on the subject.

White Man said:
That's promising to hear. I was wondering because this sounds like the sort of procedure that would cost a zillion dollars if insurance scoffed at it. Always nice to know that the system works. . .sometimes :p

I see a psychiatrist tomorrow for the first time in almost a decade. I'm trying to see if I meet the criteria for ADHD. Small potatoes in comparison to you, but I'm nervous, heh.

Yeah I'm not even sure how expensive it is but my understanding is "very." I'll have to post the dollar figure when I get the bill.

And hey I'm due for a win with insurance. :p My insurance has had so much control over my treatment it's disgusting. My doctor has wanted to perform this procedure for several months but he knew he wouldn't stand a chance with the insurance until I had "failed" a number of other procedures and pharmaceutical options. They control the number of painkillers I get every month (if I end up needing more than my prescription calls for I have to pay for it out of pocket) and even the number of sleeping pills I can take in a month.

I wasn't even able to have this scheduled until they gave the okay, and when the permanent unit goes in they may reject the higher-end stimulators in favor of a cheaper option, even if it means more frequent surgery for me to get the battery replaced. I'm hoping for Medtronic or Boston Acoustics; they produce the best stimulators. Medtronic is the company that is providing/programming my test unit tomorrow.

Good luck with your psych exam tomorrow, WM.
 
echoshifting said:
Medtronic is the company that is providing/programming my test unit tomorrow.

When you talk to the programmer, slip him a 50 and tell em to program it to convert pain to quick orgasm. :D

Grr, I've never had surgery but came really close. I have ITP and if medications and blood transfusions dont work too well, they usually have to perform a splenectomy to bring up the platelet counts. I was THIS *makes small size with fingers* close to getting the surgery done, but prednisone helped considerably.

Good luck with your surgery echoshifting, aka RoboGAF. :)
 
I, for one, welcome our new robot overlord.

Good luck! The condition sounds terrible, I hope the procedure goes well. When you take these powerful opiates, are you overly-affected by them, or is the pain so severe that it just makes you feel normal or disassociated from it? I've had [something I can't remember] prescribed, and (when I was taking it for pain, not recreationally) it didn't seem to alleviate the pain so much as just make it feel like it was happening to someone else.
 

Boozeroony

Member
Good luck to you, man.

These kind of things almost made me study medicine. I really like the implementation of infomatics into surgery.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Good luck with this, really. I hope they put some induction-rechargeable battery into you. How expensive can something like that be when electric toothbrushes use it?
 
Good luck Echo, my diabetes is nothing compared to your challenges. I hope you feel much better without having to use Fetanyl, that stuff kills people that try it recreationally.


maybe you can get your remote hooked up to your WiiPS360 for some truly next gen rumble!

:D
 
Well I just got home about an hour and a half ago. have two electrodes running out of my spine to a generator and a remote to control the power and "nature" of the sensation. The robocop reference in my tag is pretty amusing since I am not supposed to bend or twist my spine at all...so I kinda have to move like robocop!

The programmer said I would probably electrocute myself once while figuring this out and I've already done it twice. :lol

I know a lot of people are interested in this so I will write up a full report later when I'm feeling a little better...really insanely tired right now so I just kinda want to lay here. I will also try to post a couple of pictures of the wires coming out and the remote if there is anyone who'd like to see it.
 

AlexMogil

Member
You're one of the strongest people I know. And I don't even know you. Wow I hope this helps.

Will you *ever* be able to bend and twist your spine, or is more because the surgery was so recent?
 

Pterion

Member
PM me the name of your condition. I'm a surgeon-in-training, if that helps. I'm simply puzzled by this procedure, as it is quite rare (and I thought it was limited to scoliosis patients).
 

SpacLock

Member
I have never heard of anything like this before so I find it pretty cool that we have the technology to do it. I really hope it works out and your pain reduces after the procedure.
 

kozmo7

Truly deserves to shoot laserbeams from his eyes
echoshifting said:
Well kozmo I'd say your (new? I think it's new) tag is a good fit then. :lol That sounds awful, I wish you the best with it.

:lol I just noticed, neat :p

Ugh man, I know your pain with the insurance companies. It truly is disgusting the things they try to pull to save their butts money. I've had to fight with mine and am still in the process. They were paying for my prosthetic treatment but now they consider it ancillary [akin to a acupuncture or a massage] which is absolutely ridiculous. I'll show them once I get my bionic eyes that shoot laser though.

echoshifting said:
Well I just got home about an hour and a half ago. have two electrodes running out of my spine to a generator and a remote to control the power and "nature" of the sensation. The robocop reference in my tag is pretty amusing since I am not supposed to bend or twist my spine at all...so I kinda have to move like robocop!

The programmer said I would probably electrocute myself once while figuring this out and I've already done it twice. :lol

I know a lot of people are interested in this so I will write up a full report later when I'm feeling a little better...really insanely tired right now so I just kinda want to lay here. I will also try to post a couple of pictures of the wires coming out and the remote if there is anyone who'd like to see it.

Count me in, this is all very interesting to me but get your rest man. That reminds me, my Mother is still a Nurse and has a patient that got a very similar procedure done. Is it called an Interstem? Apparently its helped her quite a bit and has stopped a lot of her pain so it sounds great.
 

Barrage

Member
Best of luck man. I know i couldn't face such a painful condition with as much heart as you have. Hope everything works out.
 
All right, here is the more detailed update as promised.

The procedure itself was not that big of a deal. I was on some pretty slick painkillers that kept me fully aware and able to converse without worrying too much about them shoving wires around in my back. In addition to the usual staff of nurses, techs and residents (not to mention the doctor), I had a Medtronic representative there to program the device.

The doctor would position the electrodes on my spine and the Medtronic guy would then hook it up to his equipment and turn it on. I would then experience the normal "parasthesia" despite the painkillers, which I thought was interesting. We had to do this several times before everyone was happy with the position of the electrodes. The doctor and the Medtronic tech both informed me that they had to skip a vertebra to get them in a good spot, which is apparently unusual; the tech guy in particular was interested in this detail.

I then spent about 30-45 minutes with the Medtronic tech designing some programs to try. These represented different types of sensation in different areas. I was sent home with the hope that I would test them out as much as possible performing activities I could not normally do, to see how much it helped and which settings worked the best.

When I left I had the two sets of electrodes protruding from my back attached by a wire to a handheld generator, which I kept rubber-banded to the remote (no antenna yet so they had to be together to work). They gave me a fanny pack to keep everything in. I'm sure everyone thought I was a terrorist with a wire going out of a bulky fanny pack leading up my back (you could clearly see the wire at my side if you looked at me).

It is hard to describe what it's like to have these things in your back sending a constant electrical current through your body. If you have ever used a TENS unit, you have some idea of what it is like, as the sensation of the current is very similar, but much stronger with the spinal cord stimulator than the TENS unit. For those that haven't, the best way I can describe it is as an intense tingling. Like when you put your leg to sleep and you start getting that tingling feeling...like that but, ya know. Pleasant. :p

Today I went back thinking that we were just going to be realigning them (the electrodes often slip as people don't obey the "straight spine" rule). I met with another tech guy who looked at my remote and was able to see which programs I used the most. He then filled in the slots with some new programs for me to try. A couple of these programs were AMAZING. One of them sent a sensation down my legs that seriously felt like sex. You know how you get that incredible muscle tension release through your whole body after a good orgasm, right down to your toes? It felt EXACTLY like that.

I thought I was going to get to go home with these lovely programs to play around with them for a few more days, but, alas, my doctor came in and told me that if I had already decided to go forward with the permanent unit, the temporary electrodes should be removed to avoid unnecessary infection risks. :( :( :( So now I am back to my old in-pain self, bleh, with a bit of surgery site pain to boot. Ah well. I did tell him that I wanted to have the "sex" program when I get my permanent unit. I made him WRITE IT DOWN. I got to walk down the street to lunch before they took it out and wow, what a feeling. He told me they would try, and that since I am pretty tech-savvy he would be open to setting my remote so I can design my own custom programs! :D

In short, the stimulator works great. After spending a full day with it yesterday I am confident I will be able to resume most of my normal activities to some degree. I don't think I'll be able to drop the fentanyl or the pregabalin, but I expect to achieve at least 80% functioning with a combination of these three painkillers. I am counting the days to Implant Day. It can't come soon enough.

I am going to answer the couple of questions that came up over the past couple of days later this evening...wife and daughter just walked in so I gotta go! Sorry if grammar/spelling is a mess, didn't get a chance to re-read this before posting.

edit: Sorry, no pics. =/ Thought for sure I would have the thing in a bit longer than that.
 

kozmo7

Truly deserves to shoot laserbeams from his eyes
Wow amazing, very glad to hear it worked out for you. You of all people deserve walking around with a 'sex' feeling in your legs. :lol

I like how you'd be able to design your own programs but I am confused a bit by that. Do you change the type of stimulation that goes on? I'd be afraid I do something that set off my bladder or something; although I don't think that's the slightest bit realistic. :lol

Once it's finally in, do you have any restrictions on movement? No lying on back or twisting a certain way etc. I only ask because you reminded me of myself when you said you had to stay straight for the day. I ended up being stuck in a face down position several times while my eye was healing. Even though it's all healed [again] I am not able to lay on my back at all.

Anywho, very happy to hear this worked out for you. Imagine sex WITH the sex leg sensation turned on. Although that might cause a short-out or something. :lol
 
The stimulator :lol I wonder if my insurance company will pay for me to have one of these installed.

Anyway, good to hear everything has gone well.
 

Metalic Sand

who is Emo-Beas?
So with a permenent unit you wont/will have wires coming out your back? Good to hear it went well. Pics sometime if you can.
 
Can't sleep because I'm thinking about all this stuff and going over the literature again and again. :p

kozmo7 said:
I like how you'd be able to design your own programs but I am confused a bit by that. Do you change the type of stimulation that goes on? I'd be afraid I do something that set off my bladder or something; although I don't think that's the slightest bit realistic. :lol

Hmmmm I hadn't thought of that. :lol I doubt it's possible but I'm sure I could cause some weird stuff. The range of available stimulation is obviously pretty wide as far as the way it feels and the area it affects goes, though. The programs I received yesterday were quite different from the programs I received the first day. Furthermore, some of them worked better for sitting, standing, walking, etc. but none were quite perfect. I imagine that over time I could come up with some cool stuff, or at least fine tune the programs they give me to be more precise.

There were definitely a few weird moments - no loss of bladder control - mostly with my legs even with the programs the first tech guy set up. I had it set too high for walking at one point and my right leg started to go out with every step as though I had been hit with a taser or something. I thought it was pretty funny...my mom, who was with me at the time, not so much.

When they pulled out the leads - thinking it was already off and unplugged - I got a huge rush of sensation in my legs...thought I was going to start dancing or something.

Once it's finally in, do you have any restrictions on movement? No lying on back or twisting a certain way etc. I only ask because you reminded me of myself when you said you had to stay straight for the day. I ended up being stuck in a face down position several times while my eye was healing. Even though it's all healed [again] I am not able to lay on my back at all.

Bleh that sounds awful. I'd hate to have to do that.

The recovery period is 8 weeks; I am supposed to keep my spine straight during that period. After that I just have to be careful...the more physical activity the greater the risk. No Thanksgiving football.

One that really bums me out is scuba diving. I am not supposed to go below 33ft. If you have ever scuba dived before you know that's not that deep at all. Scuba diving is one of my favorite things and it's a little soul-crushing to know I may never do it again. A bit weird, I know, since there's no way I could have done it safely with my untreated condition. But with the condition you can always say maybe it will be better someday, with the device it's permanent. /livejournal

I would not be surprised if the day comes years from now when I say to hell with the risks and just go for it. My doctor said the literature suggesting diving would actually damage the device isn't terribly convincing.

Overall, though, I'm fortunate enough that I'll basically have the entire range of motion available to me, and I'll be able to decide for myself when a risk is worth taking. One of the booklets they gave me warns that if you sit in a sauna or a hot tub you should immediately get out if you start to feel it heating up...yeah those would be good examples of risks I probably won't take, heh.

Anywho, very happy to hear this worked out for you. Imagine sex WITH the sex leg sensation turned on. Although that might cause a short-out or something. :lol

Thanks! It's hard to believe it worked out so well, even though I always kind of expected it to.

Some questions I missed:

Pterion said:
PM me the name of your condition. I'm a surgeon-in-training, if that helps. I'm simply puzzled by this procedure, as it is quite rare (and I thought it was limited to scoliosis patients).

As I said a few posts up, my doctor describes this as "chronic neuropathy" or "chronic peripheral neuropathy" for the purpose of legal forms, but beyond that he hasn't really assigned a name to it (and he says those terms don't exactly describe my condition). No one ever has.

And these sorts of devices are used for all kinds of things, I've come to find out, to treat pain and other conditions all over the body. Maybe you are thinking of a different procedure? If you go to Medtronic's website you can see the wide range of conditions they treat with this device or similar devices.

Darkman M said:
Good Luck with the operation man, out of curiosity how much does a surgery like that cost?

Good question. I think the test is $6,000-$7,000 all by itself, and I don't think that factors in anesthesiology and all the other charges they tack on for any procedure like this. I know the big one is easily a five figure sum...my doctor half-joked about it being $100,000 but I wouldn't be surprised about it being about that much when all is said and done. I'm really not sure, I am totally naive to the cost of the procedure. My wife is pretty awesome about handling that so I don't have to worry about it, and at this point the insurance pays most everything.

That reminds me, earlier in the thread in a reply to White Man I claimed that after my high deductible was paid I didn't owe anything, but it turns out we are still paying 20%; we continue to do so until we hit $100K. In addition, her employer matches up to $2500 put into a health savings account (constantly drained for us), so that helps too.

AlexMogil said:
Will you *ever* be able to bend and twist your spine, or is more because the surgery was so recent?

Covered this in my reply to Kozmo above, I think, but to be clear, I should have a full range of motion after an 8 week recovery period with the implant, but there will always be certain risks associated with heavy activity. No more bar fights, damn. :(

I think that's it, if you asked a question and I missed it I scanned over it, slap me and I will respond.
 
Metalic Sand said:
So with a permenent unit you wont/will have wires coming out your back? Good to hear it went well. Pics sometime if you can.

No, no wires, thank God. I have to wear a recharge belt for a little while (not sure how long) every two weeks to recharge it. It's a regular lithium ion battery so the time between recharges will get shorter and shorter until the 9 year mark when it needs to be replaced.

I would be happy to take pics of the implant site but I don't think they'd be too interesting. I'm bummed I didn't get pictures of the trial unit since you could see the electrodes coming out. I'll put up a pic of the remote eventually.
 
So are there any secondary effects? If you use it too much will it cause damage to your body or will the effect wear out? Or can you "sex" it anytime you want lol?

Best of luck mate! I usually suffer from migraines so i know what it is to have constant pain, altough not in the same extend as yours!
 
ChackanKun said:
So are there any secondary effects? If you use it too much will it cause damage to your body or will the effect wear out? Or can you "sex" it anytime you want lol?

Best of luck mate! I usually suffer from migraines so i know what it is to have constant pain, altough not in the same extend as yours!

None that I'm aware of...which is interesting, since with a TENS unit you grow accustomed to the effect if you use it too much and the benefit gradually wears down over time. My totally uneducated assumption on this would be that the TENS unit contracts your muscles whereas the SCS directly affects your nerves, and nerves can't be "toughened up" to a sensation the way muscles can. Makes sense, since that's the same principle that has caused my pain to be so resilient to treatment over the past three years. :p
 

bh7812

Banned
Best of luck to you with everything :) I'll admit I also had a tough time reading the OP just due to how involved it is. I know if that were me I wouldn't have been able to sleep at all the night before a surgery like that.

Although not as complicated, or my condition anywhere NEAR that severe, I have had several surgeries on my eyes. When I was born I had cataracts so I spent most of the first couple months of my life in the hospital recovering from the surgeries I had to have for that. Then, about 10 years ago I went to be tested to see if I would be a candidate for lens implant surgery so I would no longer need contact lenses. My left eye was a perfect candidate for the procedure but my right eye was a little less so but they left the decision to me. Before I go any further I'll say I found out that day too I have glaucoma in my right eye. I had been experiencing blurriness and halos shortly before I found that out. I have eye drops for the Glaucoma so no worries there. Anyway, I went ahead with the lens implant surgeries. When they did my left eye I was completely awake and alert and it was really neat to watch them do that surgery. It was amazing one minute I could see nothing but blurriness out of that eye and a matter of seconds later once they got the implant in I could see perfectly, 20/20 vision. I finally was able to see all this stuff that was there for years but I missed because I couldn't see it well. The surgery on my right eye was a LOT more difficult. I had to be knocked out that time. I woke up toward the end of that surgery not being able to see at all out of my right eye. They had to do something extra to get the implant into my right eye. As a result of that, it caused severe trauma on my right eye that caused temporary blindness in my right eye. I got my eyesight in that eye back completely within 24 hours. I now can see pretty much 20/20 perfect vision out of both eyes so the gamble to do the surgeries was well worth it for me :) But I swear, after the surgery on my right eye I have NEVER EVER made fun of blind people. Now I know exactly what blind people who will never be able to see go through every day :( It's not fun and I cannot imagine how much bravery they must have to go through all of life like that.

Anyway I wanted to wish you luck :) And let you know I've been down the surgery street before too so I can relate somewhat.
 

mike23

Member
echoshifting said:
No, no wires, thank God. I have to wear a recharge belt for a little while (not sure how long) every two weeks to recharge it. It's a regular [bold]lithium ion battery[/bold] so the time between recharges will get shorter and shorter until the 9 year mark when it needs to be replaced.

I would be happy to take pics of the implant site but I don't think they'd be too interesting. I'm bummed I didn't get pictures of the trial unit since you could see the electrodes coming out. I'll put up a pic of the remote eventually.

Let's hope that the battery isn't made by the same people who made the ones that Dell recalled.

But seriously, this device sounds pretty awesome, hopefully it fixes your condition
 

usea

Member
Thanks for keeping up with the replies and being detailed. It's not often enough that people do that.

I'm surprised you could be sent home the same day as the surgery. I imagined you lying there on your stomach on a massage-like table, with your back open to such a degree that you spine is exposed and the nurses, doctors etc rubbing their chins looking interested.
 

BobsRevenge

I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
I hope it all goes well man. Be sure to update us on what happens.

edit: well, now that I've read more of the thread...

technology is awesome. Good luck with everything.
 
One week to go before Implant Day. I am excited and apprehensive at the same time. This is going to be a very long week.

My mom asked me on the phone yesterday if I knew this was something I really wanted and at first I didn't know what to say. After considering the question for a moment I realized it's not something I WANT so much as something I need. I feel like I've exhausted my other options and this is something that could make a huge difference, but I would not describe it as something I WANT. The magnitude of this change has finally sunk in, and although I have accepted it, when I find myself looking over the edge of it I have to catch my breath. It is awesome and terrifying at once.

Up all night in pain last night, was in so much pain yesterday I could hardly shift on the couch. I can't count the number of times I've done this, and I find it hard to believe this could finally be changing soon. I slept like a rock the two nights the trial device was in.

/blog. hmmmm maybe I should just start a blog.
 
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