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[McLovin]

I was on paleo for a year and had a bunch of health benefits, but i eventually stalled out at 263. I switched to keto and am now 233. I think its been like 5 months? After I adapted and broke my carb addiction it became really easy. Plus now carbs dont faze me in the slightest. I do take a day every few weeks and eat mostly carbs to refeed, but if i didnt have to I would bother. I go to the gym 6 days a week and dont take protein. I wouldnt recommend the diet for like forever, but paleo was the shit. I never felt that good before, and you can get carbs from stuff like sweet potatoes.
The benefit to going low carb is that if you stick with it and break the sugar addiction then your less likely to pig out on icecream when you take a break. Going low carb completely stopped my roller coasting.

 

[Opiate]

Calories are most important, but there's no denying that you will loose weight a lot faster if those calories you consume will come from high protein/fat and low car diet.

That is not what this study is concluding. Apparently there is denying that.

Also..that study seems to be pretty suspect. Because what that "starvation mode" they describe is ketogenic diet and that's actually been proven again and again as healthy for brain, enough that it's often prescribed to people with brain diseases.

This isn't the only study to show this. Are you a dietitian? What is your expertise? Honest question.

 

[FyreWulff]

No one's eating 4000 calories without trying to. Really, REALLY trying.

People actually eat far less than they think they do, not the other way around.

McDonalds Breakfast:
Big Breakfast Platter 740 cal
Orange Juice 150 cal

Snickers bar for a snack: 250cal

Lunch
2 Burritos , 600 cal
can of pepsi w/ real sugar: 150cal

someone brought cookies to work as a treat. 300 cals for 3 cookies

drive home, someone needs a ride, stop at the gas station and get a 44oz of Coca Cola for the road: 560 cals

get home

Homemade burger 1/4 beef burger: 450 cal (meat, bread, sauces and toppings)
side of tater tots: 100 cal
salad: 20 cal

and that's a restrained day in the ol us of a. You can hit 4000 easily and cheaply. It's the reason I had to start cal counting, a friend made me do the math and I was doing 4500-5000 cals a day.

 

[McLovin]

McDonalds Breakfast:
Big Breakfast Platter 740 cal
Orange Juice 150 cal

Snickers bar for a snack: 250cal

Lunch
2 Burritos , 600 cal
can of pepsi w/ real sugar: 150cal

someone brought cookies to work as a treat. 300 cals for 3 cookies

drive home, someone needs a ride, stop at the gas station and get a 44oz of Coca Cola for the road: 560 cals

get home

Homemade burger 1/4 beef burger: 450 cal (meat, bread, sauces and toppings)
side of tater tots: 100 cal
salad: 20 cal

and that's a restrained day in the ol us of a. You can hit 4000 easily and cheaply. It's the reason I had to start cal counting, a friend made me do the math and I was doing 4500-5000 cals a day.

Sounds like your trying to kill yourself. Thats a crazy amount food man. At my biggest I was 350 aaand I dont think I coud eat like that back then.

 

[FyreWulff]

Sounds like your trying to kill yourself. Thats a crazy amount food man.

That's an example / amalgam of other people I know in my life and how they eat. I don't eat like that anymore.

I used to eat the entire package of these as lunch. And eat whole meals for breakfast and dinner in addition to that.

 

[McLovin]

That's an example / amalgam of other people I know in my life and how they eat. I don't eat like that anymore.

I used to eat the entire package of these as lunch. And eat whole meals for breakfast and dinner in addition to that.

Yeah I followed the conversation back . My bad.

 

[Alchemy]

Sounds like your trying to kill yourself. Thats a crazy amount food man. At my biggest I was 350 aaand I dont think I coud eat like that back then.

Uh... what? Thats three meals and two snacks (small in contents) and one drink for a snack, hardly insane (the US at least). I mean, I know lots of people that snack between each meal and top off dinner with dessert. Hell I know a couple of people that put away a 2 liter of soda a day, thats like 850 calories in drink alone.

It is suuuuuuper easy in the US to pack on the calories.

 

[Chris R]

I never had any issues with brain function after the first few days of "Keto Flu" when I was using the diet (to great success).

 

[kamspy]

Low carb was an insanely good kick start for my weight loss. Been back to just being more conscious of carbs.

 

[SnakeSlashRO]

I don't buy that it's all down to calories alone based off the time I spent doing in-depth journaling of what I ate/drank as well as exercise. Either that, or all the simple online methods of estimating BMR were very inaccurate.

I think this lightly breaks it down - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GUIBNKnT1M

Some people are more intolerant of carbs than others, and not all carbs are the same. Most of our carbs come from sucrose or fructose, not actual glucose which is much lower on the scale of spiking insulin.

The more insulin release you have, the more fat you will store. It isn't just about calories in vs calories out.

That's like assuming all body types are the same, and all body chemistry is the same, its just some people are fatter than others by choice.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

The best thing about diets is just teaches people about calories and nutrition. Diet education in America is horribly fucked, just general food awareness helps a ton.



Large coke: 310 calories
Large fries: ~500 calories
Fast food burger: ~700 calories
Large milkshake instead of a soda? ~950 calories

With American portions and food, its super easy for people to pack on 1500 calories per meal.

Yeah, but more often than not someone who indulges like that during one meal has skipped breakfast, or probably won't eat a big lunch or dinner and will only snack on something a bit before going to bed.

Seriously, ask some of your friends (those who are bigger than they'd like to be) what they eat in a typical day, or better yet, to record everything they eat for you for one day, and then do a calorie total. I bet the majority won't even get to 3000, let alone 4000.

 

[tokkun]

I think this lightly breaks it down - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GUIBNKnT1M

Some people are more intolerant of carbs than others, and not all carbs are the same. Most of our carbs come from sucrose or fructose, not actual glucose which is much lower on the scale of spiking insulin.

The more insulin release you have, the more fat you will store. It isn't just about calories in vs calories out.

That's like assuming all body types are the same, and all body chemistry is the same, its just some people are fatter than others by choice.

Where's the data showing that it changes body composition in clinical trials?

The problem with these theories focused on hypothetical mechanisms is that you don't know how much of an effect they will have until they are tested. Another poster showed research earlier that high protein lowers testosterone levels. But wait, higher testosterone also promotes greater muscle mass and lower body fat. Which has a more powerful effect, the insulin or the testosterone?

This is why it's all about data focused on outcomes, not on mechanisms.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Proteins and fats also tend to make you feel full longer, making you less likely to snack or overfill your stomach with empty calories.

If you end up eating less calories as a result, this is not surprising. That's the point.

 

[Koki]

Isn't low carb = Keto?

It's been popular.

 

[thesoapster]

I think this lightly breaks it down - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GUIBNKnT1M

Some people are more intolerant of carbs than others, and not all carbs are the same. Most of our carbs come from sucrose or fructose, not actual glucose which is much lower on the scale of spiking insulin.

The more insulin release you have, the more fat you will store. It isn't just about calories in vs calories out.

That's like assuming all body types are the same, and all body chemistry is the same, its just some people are fatter than others by choice.

Most carbs I do take in are complex. I just seem to have the metabolism of a sedentary grandpa, despite walking 3-7+ miles per day at work (5 days/week), and running and lifting for exercise. I swear if I step out of line for a couple days and take in too many calories, it takes a long ass time for my weight to ever make it back to where I was, despite said working out. Thyroid normal. According to my doctors it may be a medication I'm on, but whatever it is, it's frustrating as hell. Once I've finished school this spring I'm going to cook even more meals and really limit my intake. I usually consume 1900-2300 calories per day, but like I said I'm also pretty active. I seem to only start losing if I drop down to around 1500-1600 per day while staying active, and then I go to bed hungry (stomach growling). I really hate it, and I hate my appearance.

 

[entremet]

Isn't low carb = Keto?

It's been popular.

Keto is low carb, but not all low carb diets are ketogenic.

 

[old]

A lot of people in here we saying all calories are equal and yet this Princeton study says otherwise.

http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S26/91/22K07/

Accounting for the same caloric intake, the weight of the rats depended on their source of calories. Though the study was about replacing carb calories with other different carb calories, it still found that not all calories are equal in regards to weight gain.

Then we also have growing studies showing diet affects gut bacteria richness (Semova, North Carolina) and other studies showing transplanting gut bacteria from obese rats into lean rats causes the lean rats to become obese even when controlling for calories (DeBaise, Frank, Mathur).

This creates the picture that different calories come from different diets, those different calories affect our gut bacteria differently, which in turn can affect weight gain differently.

 

[God Dayumm]

a) In this study, the researchers divided their subjects into 2 groups. One group ate a high-carb low-protein diet, whereas the other group ate a high-protein low-carb diet. Fat intake and calories were identical. Ten days into the study, the results showed that the high protein group had significantly lower free testosterone levels (-36%), higher SHBG levels, and higher cortisol levels.

b) In this study which had 1552 men as test subjects (aged 40-70), Longcope et al. found out that when men eat less protein, their levels of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) decrease significantly. This occurrence leads to significant increases in free testosterone levels (SHBG is a protein which binds to free testosterone molecules in blood, making them ‘unavailable’ for direct use of the body).

c) In this study, the researchers found out that diets high in protein, lower testosterone levels in men who practice strength training.

d) In this Finnish study, Hulmi et al. found out that consuming a drink with 25 grams protein (whey and casein) right before a strength training workout, significantly lowered testosterone and growth hormone levels in human subjects.

Those are very good findings. Makes me rethink part of my diet, now I understand why they say it is important to not reduce fats when eating a lot of protein. But at the same time, when you are at a calorie deficit you need to increase protein or you can lose a lot of muscle, having to maintain a good fat/carb/protein ratio on top of that is very difficult.

 

[mr stroke]

5000k a day low carb

-vs-



5000k a day high carb-

 

[Skeyser]

5000k a day low carbs


5000k a day high carb-

Bro must have been drinking olive oil straight off the bottle to get than many cals on a low carbs diet

 

[jamesinclair]

No one's eating 4000 calories without trying to. Really, REALLY trying.

People actually eat far less than they think they do, not the other way around.

You can order a salad, smoothie and dessert at the cheesecake factory and blow past 4000 calories, and that's one meal

 

[entremet]

5000k a day low carb

-vs-



5000k a day high carb-

Link? I'm curious about the research. N=1?

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

You can order a salad, smoothie and dessert at the cheesecake factory and blow past 4000 calories, and that's one meal

I've never been to the Cheesecake Factory, but I'm looking at this online nutritional database, and yeah, using the biggest dishes in each category, you'd still be short of 4000.

Caesar Salad with Chicken: 1510
Tropical Smoothie: 330
Chocolate Tower Truffle Cake: 1680

Total: 3520

Which is still an absurd amount. Having never been there, would anyone even eat those three items in one sitting? How huge are the portions?

 

[jamesinclair]

I've never been to the Cheesecake Factory, but I'm looking at this online nutritional database, and yeah, using the biggest dishes in each category, you'd still be short of 4000.

Caesar Salad with Chicken: 1510
Tropical Smoothie: 330
Chocolate Tower Truffle Cake: 1680

Total: 3520

Which is still an absurd amount. Having never been there, would anyone even eat those three items in one sitting? How huge are the portions?

You fly past 4000 thanks to the delicious unlimited bread and butter.

Switch out the smoothie for five refills of coke and you have yourself a party.

Portions are big naturally, but plenty of people wipe the plate clean, never mind those that split a 2000 calories appetizer

Everybody knows you're eating a lot of calories at the cheesecake factory, but I'm sure if you polled diners they'd guess 1,000 for their meal, not 4,000

 

[Sakura]

McDonalds Breakfast:
Big Breakfast Platter 740 cal
Orange Juice 150 cal

Snickers bar for a snack: 250cal

Lunch
2 Burritos , 600 cal
can of pepsi w/ real sugar: 150cal

someone brought cookies to work as a treat. 300 cals for 3 cookies

drive home, someone needs a ride, stop at the gas station and get a 44oz of Coca Cola for the road: 560 cals

get home

Homemade burger 1/4 beef burger: 450 cal (meat, bread, sauces and toppings)
side of tater tots: 100 cal
salad: 20 cal

and that's a restrained day in the ol us of a. You can hit 4000 easily and cheaply. It's the reason I had to start cal counting, a friend made me do the math and I was doing 4500-5000 cals a day.

I don't... what?
You just ate a McDonald's breakfast and now you need some chocolate? A 44oz Coke for the road? Why!? That's more pop than you had with your lunch! Does driving dehydrate you so much?
Breakfast Mcdonalds. Lunch Burritos. Dinner Burgers... chocolate bars, cookies, and pop littered throughout the day. It's like an American stereotype.

Either way though, even that still doesn't add up to 4000 calories.
If someone is hitting 4500 to 5000 calories a day without even realising then I don't know what to say. At the very least they shouldn't be at all surprised by the fact that they are putting on weight even if they don't know how many calories they are consuming.

 

[mr stroke]

Link? I'm curious about the research. N=1?

Sam Feltham
http://live.smashthefat.com/why-i-didnt-get-fat/

 

[ILoveBish]

I've never been to the Cheesecake Factory, but I'm looking at this online nutritional database, and yeah, using the biggest dishes in each category, you'd still be short of 4000.

Caesar Salad with Chicken: 1510
Tropical Smoothie: 330
Chocolate Tower Truffle Cake: 1680

Total: 3520

Which is still an absurd amount. Having never been there, would anyone even eat those three items in one sitting? How huge are the portions?

You are seriously underestimating how much the average American eats a day. There isn't a obese epidemic because people are having trouble eating enough calories.

You being on GAF, having access to fitgaf and various threads here, are way ahead of the game when it here comes to how much you know about nutrition.

I ask some of the truck divers at work if they know how many calories are in the food they eat at lunch and they don't know how to multiply the servings per meal it comes in. They just think it's 200 when they eat the whole thing which is 3 servings of 200 of each serving for 600 total.

You should see the shock when they find out how many calories are in their huge rock star energy drinks.

 

[elrechazado]

I don't think this is correct. In terms of weight loss, the only significant difference between high carb/low carb/etc is that for some people, low carb makes it easier to consume less calories while not feeling hungry.

Insulin exists. Hormones- how do they work????

 

[BlueTsunami]

5000k a day low carb

-vs-



5000k a day high carb-

Possible water weight? You can expect a good 5lb+ weight gain when you introduce carbs again, even more when you start slamming them.

 

[huxley00]

You are seriously underestimating how much the average American eats a day. There isn't a obese epidemic because people are having trouble eating enough calories.

You being on GAF, having access to fitgaf and various threads here, are way ahead of the game when it here comes to how much you know about nutrition.

I ask some of the truck divers at work if they know how many calories are in the food they eat at lunch and they don't know how to multiply the servings per meal it comes in. They just think it's 200 when they eat the whole thing which is 3 servings of 200 of each serving for 600 total.

You should see the shock when they find out how many calories are in their huge rock star energy drinks.

Every now and again, I treat myself to some McDonalds (like twice a year). I notice when I get a #2 super sized with a coke, I'm hungry within 2 hours again. It would be extremely easy to eat that amount of calories, especially if you're eating fast food for a few meals.

 

[FyreWulff]

It's like an American stereotype.

There's a reason there's a stereotype about fat americans.. all the high density high cal easy to eat food is super cheap. All the healthy food either takes too long for GOTTAGOFAST americans to prepare or is expensive. We have a messed up culture about food.

Like, you go to the gas station.. a 32oz pop will cost you 60 cents, or you can get a 44oz for $0.99 or a 64 oz for 1.20$.

In my really bad days I'd walk to the gas station and buy a 64 oz mt dew refill because I could get it for 50 cents. Because it hit the spot and I could sip on it all day, and made me feel good. It's cheap as hell because corn syrup and corn subsidies.

Nowadays Mt Dew will make me feel queasy even after a single can, heh

 

[Jay Sosa]

5000k a day low carb


http://i.imgur.com/rtLkTks.jpg




-vs-



5000k a day high carb-


[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/GYxwA63.png[/QUOTE]

Am I supposed to see a difference?

And what happened to getting clogged arteries by all that saturated fat and bowel cancer from all that read meat?

Nutrional Science is still more like Witchcraft than anything. Every other month there's a new study stating the exact opposite of what was told before.

 

[huxley00]

Am I supposed to see a difference?

And what happened to getting clogged arteries by all that saturated fat and bowel cancer from all that read meat?

Nutrional Science is still more like Witchcraft than anything. Every other month there's a new study stating the exact opposite of what was told before.

Indeed there is, evidently there is research these days stating saturated fats don't really matter either. Who knows, all I can go off of is the results I get and the results I see in others. Even if a low carb diet is anecdotal, it seems to work.

 

[entremet]

Am I supposed to see a difference?

And what happened to getting clogged arteries by all that saturated fat and bowel cancer from all that read meat?

Nutrional Science is still more like Witchcraft than anything. Every other month there's a new study stating the exact opposite of what was told before.

Recent nutritional guidelines have been bearish on cholesterol. Many researchers have been very critical of the cholesterol hypothesis.

In terms of researched data, trans fats are the ones that have been shown repeatedly to be very bad for your arteries.

Saturated fats, amongst healthy individuals, doesn't seem to be as harmful.

However, if you have heart disease, reducing all fats including saturated fats dramatically has been shown to lower cholesterol and clear up heart plaques.

The cause of heart disease seems to be compounded by many factors including stress, inflammation, smoking or drug use, and lifestyle on top of diet.

But the jury is still out if saturated fat should be feared by healthy people.

 

[Jay Sosa]

^thanks guys.

 

[tokkun]

Possible water weight? You can expect a good 5lb+ weight gain when you introduce carbs again, even more when you start slamming them.

Yeah, if I decide to do low carb for a while I always look way skinnier after a week or two due to shedding water from tissue.

 

[Oppo]

Sorry for the dumb question...

can someone break down for me the key differences between "Keto" and "Paleo"?

 

[Princess Carl]

Can someone link data on "starvation mode", because every diet or study that references this usually has zero claim. At t=? is the body entering starvation mode? How do they prove this is from low carbs and not low calories?

 

[entremet]

Sorry for the dumb question...

can someone break down for me the key differences between "Keto" and "Paleo"?

Keto is short for ketogenic diet. These diets are very old and have been used to treat other issues as well, including epilepsy.

Basically, you restrict carbs and protein and your body enters a state of ketosis, using ketones, which are molecules derived from fat as a primary energy source.

The diet is high in fat, low in carbohydrates, and moderate in protein. Too much protein and your will start coverting excess protein to sugar via glucaneogenesis. This is common mistake that laymen make when trying out these diets. You cannot have a lot protein or you will never enter a ketogenic state.

The most popular proponent of this diet was Dr. Atkins.

Paleo is macro nutrient agnostic. It emphasizes meat, poultry, fish, vegetables and eschews wheat, corn, soy, legumes and, in some variations, dairy. Paleo has been evolving (pun intended) of late and has started to include white potatoes and white rice as OK foods.

Paleo however, is not a catch all. There are various paleo type diets amongst different gurus or authors. But the the most popular variations are high in protein, low to moderate carbs, and low to moderate to high in fat.

While, I''m critical of both diets in their insistence to vilify carbs and legumes, they do get people eating whole foods and off processed crap.

Processed foods are extremely dangerous in that they're calorie dense and cause more hunger, causing more calorie consumption. They're also addictive, so it's a dangerous cycle.

 

[The Lamp]

Calories are the most important.

However, low carb diets help with hunger control, which is the biggest issue with cutting calories.

Low calorie diets are not sustainable due to discomfort caused by hunger.

Scientifically, it's not so much the low carbs but higher protein. Protein had a greater satieting effect.

Apparently there is denying that... by highly trained experts in the field.

Caloric deficiency,doesn't really matter how you get there.

This video series gets posted on NeoGAF occasionally, but apparently it doesn't get posted enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceFyF9px20Y

It's NOT just calorie count and it DOES matter where you get your calories from.

 

[entremet]

This video series gets posted on NeoGAF occasionally, but apparently it doesn't get posted enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceFyF9px20Y

It's NOT just calorie count and it DOES matter where you get your calories from.

I'm familiar with Dr. Lustig's findings. But he's a doctor and not a researcher. Some call him a quack. I don't.

I just need more rigorous research for me to accept that calories don't matter.

All the research shows that calories matter heavily.

 

[Thornton Reed]

I did the south beach diet for about 6 weeks and although the weight did drop off I felt horrific. I suffered from head aches, tiredness, mood swings and constipation. All this from cutting out carbs it's not worth it. I have found it better just to cut back and workout. Currently doing t25 at the moment I highly recommend it

 

[ILoveBish]

I did the south beach diet for about 6 weeks and although the weight did drop off I felt horrific. I suffered from head aches, tiredness, mood swings and constipation. All this from cutting out carbs it's not worth it. I have found it better just to cut back and workout. Currently doing t25 at the moment I highly recommend it

I eat 17-27g of carbs a day and have none of those problems you listed. I am fully adapted and have 10x the energy at age 36 then I did at age 18. As they say, you were doing it wrong.

 

[MikeyB]

I eat loaves of bread, bagels, rice cake, and all sorts of noodles. Always have. I feel fantastic. My iron content is great, blood pressure is low, low bodyfat, and a resting heart rate of 52.

All this crap about diets get people to discipline their eating, which is great, but the content of protein to carbs and all that strikes me as utter horseshit.

 

[The Lamp]

I'm familiar with Dr. Lustig's findings. But he's a doctor and not a researcher. Some call him a quack. I don't.

I just need more rigorous research for me to accept that calories don't matter.

All the research shows that calories matter heavily.

Lustig doesn't say calories don't matter. They absolutely do. What you're saying implies you misunderstand. Thermodynamics dictate that they do. But it's basic biochemistry to understand that your body doesn't take 100 calories and do the same thing with them for every type of biomolecule. Your gut flora eat some of those calories. Your liver handles those molecules differently.

And yeah, he's a researcher. He's an endocrinologist at one of the largest research-focused medical schools in the USA (UCSF).

You can work out the metabolic pathways yourself if you want. He goes over them in the video, and if you've taken some organic chemistry and biochemistry courses like I have, it's pretty simple to follow. I have friends in med school that worked them out themselves too and also acknowledge it is genuine.

 

[Psychotext]

I eat 17-27g of carbs a day and have none of those problems you listed. I am fully adapted and have 10x the energy at age 36 then I did at age 18. As they say, you were doing it wrong.

With respect (and I know you're a massive fan), it doesn't work for everyone. My wife became severely depressed, and trust me, she was doing it right down to the gram as I was preparing all of her meals. After three months (and returning to a normal carb diet) the change was almost immediate. Still lost the same amount of weight too, because at the end of the day, for most people it's really just the calories that count.

So yeah, everyone is different. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Especially when it comes to Keto.

 

[ILoveBish]

With respect (and I know you're a massive fan), it doesn't work for everyone. My wife became severely depressed, and trust me, she was doing it right down to the gram as I was preparing all of her meals. After three months (and returning to a normal carb diet) the change was almost immediate. Still lost the same amount of weight too, because at the end of the day, for most people it's really just the calories that count.

So yeah, everyone is different. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Especially when it comes to Keto.

That I agree with, but most of the time they have those issues due to deficiencies elsewhere in their diet, like electrolytes.

But absolutely keto is not a one size fits all, but it's not just for the elite genetic people either.

 

[Cooter]

That I agree with, but most of the time they have those issues due to deficiencies elsewhere in their diet, like electrolytes.

But absolutely keto is not a one size fits all, but it's not just for the elite genetic people either.

Nonsense. You have the fantastically rare keto-gene Bish! Deal with it.

 

[Psychotext]

He doesn't have the Cooter gene though, but who can consider themselves that lucky?

 

[ILoveBish]

Nonsense. You have the fantastically rare keto-gene Bish! Deal with it.

Look who is talking, broseph.