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Survivor: Worlds Apart |OT| Season 30, 15 years of blindsides

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Lots of nonsense about SJDS being awesome/season rankings

...so what you're saying is Survivor Sucks collectively has terrible taste? I mean, I'm sure there are worse seasonal rankings, but no way can I take anywhere seriously that lists Nicaragua as being just outside the Top 10.

Welcome to the thread though! Always good to have new people joining us for new seasons.

Question for everyone: What's the deal with Max Dawson? I saw somewhere that said he's going to be great for this season because he'll fill that narrator role, but I don't know much else about him.
 
That is the most boringly typical suckster post I have seen in a long time.

Jaclyn was kinda pathetic and it's so typical for Sucks to back someone like her to the death and say things like "I don't care what y'all think". Sucks is the Kanye West of Survivor fandom.

Looking forward to World's Apart though! Cast seems interesting.
 

llehuty

Member
Question for everyone: What's the deal with Max Dawson? I saw somewhere that said he's going to be great for this season because he'll fill that narrator role, but I don't know much else about him.

It's in the OP and in his short interview:
Max is a former college professor who used to run lectures on Survivor.

Looking forward for his
over
analysis inside of the show. He is going to have an interesting journey for sure.
 

Joeys_Rattata

Neo Member
You guys just need to be shown the light of good Survivor (fyi Nicaragua was a great season full of amazing characters like Brenda, Marty, Jane, Na Onka, Holly, and Chase. I'd include Purple Kelly and Dan too but I don't think you guys are at the point where you can accept them yet).

But don't worry, I'll infuse this thread with opinions that are good and right as the season progresses. Think of today as the first day of the rest of your lives.

Max I'm worried about to be honest. I think he could be fun, but I'm worried that he'll turn into a Spencer from Cagayan. (I strongly dislike Spencer if you guys didn't know.)
 
Okay, now it's clear you're just trolling us. No one likes No'Onka, Purple Kelly or Dan. I back you 100% in your dislike of Spencer, though I'll assume that's just a reverse-troll on your part.

It's in the OP and in his short interview:

Looking forward for his
over
analysis inside of the show. He is going to have an interesting journey for sure.

Huh...watched the video on EW. He lacks the Alan Alda-esque gravitas of Penner.
 
You guys just need to be shown the light of good Survivor (fyi Nicaragua was a great season full of amazing characters like Brenda, Marty, Jane, Na Onka, Holly, and Chase. I'd include Purple Kelly and Dan too but I don't think you guys are at the point where you can accept them yet).
What the fuck am I reading
 

Joeys_Rattata

Neo Member
Not trolling. I honest to God love Purple Kelly and NaOnka. Dan is more of an ironic appreciation for his constant sour attitude and little random funny moments he had throughout the season.

PK's upbeat "^____^" attitude throughout Nicaragua (despite being relegated to the background 99% of the time, it still shone through if you paid attention to her) and Nay's wild emotional swings made them a joy to watch.
 

Grexeno

Member
Not trolling. I honest to God love Purple Kelly and NaOnka.
i44jLTM3Tb9IS.gif
 
I think I might be in again. Last season I saw was the one with Yao Man? and Earl.

You've missed so many good seasons! Ignore that terrible list posted above, you can get much better suggestions from other people here. My recommendations: Cagayan (Brains vs Beauty vs Brawn) and Philippines are must-sees. Skip Venezuela and South Pacific and probably Samoa; only watch Redemption Island and One World if you want to see one person dominate a terrible cast.
 

kirblar

Member
Reddit's poll ended up with SDJS in the top half as well- it's just a season that didn't have a ton of overtly likeable people, but Natalie/Jaclyn were fantastic on the back half, and Jon was hilariously dumb. (It was like a real-life sitcom marriage in action.) Would actually be curious how Jaclyn would do on a future season by herself, but I suspect it won't ever happen.

S21-24 are just bad. 25,28,29 are the best 3 recent ones by a mile. If you stopped at Fiji (which was the previous S24-esque low point) then I would catch up on 15,16,17,19 and 20.
 

belushy

Banned
I posted this on the Survivor Subreddit and thought I'd post it here just for opinions since I'm bored. An idea for a 3-Tribe season.

I was messing with the BrantSteele Survivor Simulator thing (it is strangely addicting... not sure why) and as I was making a custom 3-tribe season (using the Philippines one as a base) and wondered how the game would play if 3 players were brought back from six different season each, all placed on one of the three different tribes.

For example, Hayden, Vytas, and Ciera all brought back from BvW1, all split between the three tribes. Then you'd take RC, Abi, Jeff Kent from Philippines, and so on and so forth. I'd say it is sort of an evolution of BvW, as you can get 3 groups that really like each other (Hayden, Vytas, Ciera) or a group that don't like each other (Abi, RC, Jeff)

(Did a simulation off that BrantSteele thing... just pulled some people I liked from the most recent seasons. No winners or 2+ returnees + the 3 people I like going into Worlds Apart. It kinda shows how powerful a BvW1-Alliance would be lol : http://i.imgur.com/tIKW5hD.png the tribes : http://i.imgur.com/fZQtYHd.png )
 

Memles

Member
Question for everyone: What's the deal with Max Dawson? I saw somewhere that said he's going to be great for this season because he'll fill that narrator role, but I don't know much else about him.

So, might as well say this now: Max is actually a friend of mine, and I visited his Survivor class back in 2013. I have no doubt that he will prove a divisive figure, but he understands the game, and he's also someone that is very aware of the various roles the game demands.

On a personal level, I'm obviously going to be interested to see how the Max I know is filtered through the lens of the show. The bigger question, I think, is how his willingness/ability to narrate the game—provided he sticks around—shifts the deeper he gets in. More than any other player I can think of, Max has played armchair Survivor very publicly—what is his Come To Probst moment, if there is one?

I've watched at least part of every season, but this is going to be a highlight for sure.
 

BowieZ

Banned
I think I might be in again. Last season I saw was the one with Yao Man? and Earl.
What to watch since Fiji:

15. China (pretty much the perfect season, although a missed opportunity halfway through the game makes me scratch my head to this day...)

*16. Micronesia (brings back 2 from China, 1 from Fiji, 3 from Cook Islands, 1 from Panama, 2 from Vanuatu and 1 from Pearl Islands)

18. Tocantins (lots of memorable characters, a unique inland locale, and a satisfying outcome -- rather underrated imho)

19. Samoa (a great case study)

*20. Heroes vs Villains (brings back 1 from Samoa, 3 from Tocantins, 2 from Gabon, 3 from China, 2 from Cook Islands, 2 from Panama, 2 from Palau, 2 from Pearl Islands, 1 from Marquesas and 2 from Australia)

**23. South Pacific (brings back 1 from Tocantins and 1 from Cook Islands)

25. Philippines (brings back 1 from Australia, 1 from Cook Islands/Micronesia and 1 from

28. Cagayan (the best season since China)


*I would only watch these all-star type seasons if you do know the majority of the players from the earlier seasons. Note that, while Gabon is entertaining while it lasts, it is a rather ineffectual season, outputting two 'all-stars' in Heroes vs Villains who don't perform well enough to make Gabon essential viewing.

**I am in the minority who actually enjoyed South Pacific and its winner, and the Redemption Island twist is worth experiencing the once (better here than in the prior namesake season)
 

Macka

Member
**I am in the minority who actually enjoyed South Pacific and its winner, and the Redemption Island twist is worth experiencing the once (better here than in the prior namesake season)
I would say if you really wanted to watch a Redemption Island season that it should be Blood vs. Water. Having the loved ones on the island made it far more interesting.
 
It'd be so strange to watch someone you know on Survivor -- especially if that someone may be the voice of a season.

I posted this on the Survivor Subreddit and thought I'd post it here just for opinions since I'm bored. An idea for a 3-Tribe season.

What's the hook, though? Just three random people who like each other, and three who don't? I think there'd have to be a more clearly defined twist than that. Some of that previous alliance stuff would be remembered by viewers, but I can't imagine the show's producers would want to rely on people remembering not just individual personalities, but also how they interacted with each other.

I like the South Pacific winner a lot but the season?

I've always thought Sophie was a bit overrated as a winner. She was by far the most acceptable person out of that bunch, but most of her time on the show was her and Albert talking a big game in confessionals, but never actually following through. I wouldn't have wanted anyone else to win, but I get the sense people like her more because she wasn't Coach or Lil Hantz than anything else.
 

belushy

Banned
What's the hook, though? Just three random people who like each other, and three who don't? I think there'd have to be a more clearly defined twist than that. Some of that previous alliance stuff would be remembered by viewers, but I can't imagine the show's producers would want to rely on people remembering not just individual personalities, but also how they interacted with each other.

That is kind what I was going for, didn't really have a hook in mind. I just think it would lead to a neat season. Betraying your season because you don't like another player from it, or breaking off your entire old alliance to team with your season since you're more familiar with those players.

Good point, though... can't really expect people to remember (or even care about some) relationships or lack of one between some players from old seasons.
 

llehuty

Member
That is kind what I was going for, didn't really have a hook in mind. I just think it would lead to a neat season. Betraying your season because you don't like another player from it, or breaking off your entire old alliance to team with your season since you're more familiar with those players.

Good point, though... can't really expect people to remember (or even care about some) relationships or lack of one between some players from old seasons.

I think that would work better with a 2 tribes season and bringing duos. There are probably more memorable duos than trios and that way is easier to avoid strong alliances of 3 members. I would like a Rivals season as an antithesis to Blood vs Water and its predictable duo alliances.
 

belushy

Banned
I think that would work better with a 2 tribes season and bringing duos. There are probably more memorable duos than trios and that way is easier to avoid strong alliances of 3 members. I would like a Rivals season as an antithesis to Blood vs Water and its predictable duo alliances.

For sure, I think 2 tribes and duos would work better. A Rivals season would be really sweet. I just had the idea because I was trying to think of a different way to do 3 tribes.
 

Joeys_Rattata

Neo Member
Sophie is an interesting case because she was obviously editted down to make her more likeable to the viewers (plus Coach eating up a lot of time every episode meant she was shafted in the edit). It's pretty clear that she was as bratty and snarky on the island as she is on Twitter. Hence everyone calling her out at the Final Tribal council for her attitude.

I wish Coach would have gotten half the screen time he got in SoPa and a good chunk of that was given to Sophie. Ever since Jenna Morasca, it feels like the producers are scared to show unlikable winners how they really are. (Tyson is another example where a few random scenes showed he was the same person as he was in Tocantins and HvV, but in BvW he became a strategy bot like 90% of the time. Denise too. We could get an idea of how condescending she could be with Abi, but she probably had that attitude with everyone, which is why pretty much everyone called her a bitch at FTC.)

Edit: I feel like that's a failing of modern Survivor. If Hatch, Brian Heidik, or Jenna Morasca played for the first time today, their edit would be a lot more toned down compared to Borneo/Thailand/Amazon to try to avoid upsetting the viewers. Jenna was probably the catalyst to the change because she was so disliked at the time of her win. (even though I love Jenna. Wanting to quit at the final 5 with like three days left only to get a new sense of self after Heidi got voted out and going on to win the last two immunity challenges despite being completely and utterly pathetic for all 36 days prior that and then winning because four people on the jury thought Matt was creepy and Christy got confused. <33333)
 
I haven't watched Survivor since the All-Stars one where Rupert returned, I think. It's been a while.

That said, I may give this one a shot and see if it hooks me. The premise is always interesting.

Great OT, by the way.
 

Joeys_Rattata

Neo Member
Also, since I'm new here (well not new new, my account is like 5 years old, but still), I figured I should let you guys know what I appreciate in a season of Survivor going into this one.

When I watch Survivor, I want to be entertained, not listen to someone analyze numbers and talk about predicting people's actions for thirty to forty minutes. I want to watch a season where the majority of people playing don't care about Survivor, and therefore, don't give a shit about playing strategicly at all. They vote each other out based on how they feel about each other that day.

The perfect example of this is the Pearl Islands -> All Stars back to back seasons. In Pearl Islands, the majority of the cast didn't care about playing amazing strategic games. They all played extremely personally, including Sandra. (I think Sandra plays a flawless game btw, but the reason she plays a flawless game is because she doesn't care about the strategy part of Survivor. She's started multiple times that her strategy is just "As long as it's not me.") When the best player from PI is a woman who gets in other people's faces and shouts "I CAN GET LOUD TOO, WHAT THE FUCK?", rolls her eyes and says "His grandma probably sucked anyway" while everyone else was crying about someone dying, dumps a good portion of her tribe's food supplies because they annoyned her (and then sat back and let her closest ally take the blame for it), you know you have a season full of crazies who don't take the strategic part of the game seriously at all.

Contrast that with All Stars. Everyone came to play and win a million dollars (with maybe the exception of Alicia, but she sucks). It was probably the best game Boston Rob played out of all four of his. But god damn was it a bore to watch. Everything they talked about revolved around strategy, even the emotional parts. When Jenna quit to be with her dying mother, everyone talked about how it was a bad strategic move for them and how they wouldn't do what Jenna was doing because this is SURVIVOR. The only person who was a joy to watch in All Stars was Shii Ann, and that's because she realized at the merge she wasn't going to win and basically said fuck it. (coincidentally, Shii Ann was the only one to give a decent jury speech that season because she was the only one who wasn't upset at the outcome since she stopped caring halfway through.)

Also, my favorite tribal council in the history of Survivor is one dominated by emotion, not strategy. Final 8 of Gabon, everyone knows Randy's getting voted out. There's no reason to do anything. But then Sugar learns Bob made a fake idol and convinces Bob to give to Randy because she thought it'd be funny. The only thing she's doing is getting Randy and Corrine's hopes up only to immediately squash them in the most embarrassing way possible. And even after that initial embarrassment, Sugar and her entire alliance obnoxiously laughs in Randy's face as he's voted out.

No strategy behind it all, but god damn was it amazing to watch. (also, the entirety of Gabon was amazing because the Fang alliance and Sugar played with their emotions rather than strategy.)

It's also why I'll always prefer Cagayan's pre merge over its post merge. J'Tia being J'Tia around camp, Morgan targetting Alexis and her reasoning being "She's, like, really proud she can twerk. :/", Trish being such an obnoxious force that Lindsey can't stand it and quits. It was amazing to watch. Seeing Cagayan turn into the strategy idol fest of Tony and Spencer featuring background characters Tasha and Trish with random outbursts from Kass was disappointing because the pre merge was such a trainwreck.

That doesn't mean every season dominated by emotion is great though. Fiji was dominated by emotion, but it got personal for all the wrong reasons and it just got uncomfortable to watch. Likewise, strategy focused seasons aren't all horrible. Micro was dominated by strategy, but it was a joy to watch. Mainly because despite everyone being focused on strategy, they were still emotional trainwrecks for the most part. ("IT'S A FUCKING STICK.", Natalie finally becoming the demon she always wanted to be, and Amanda's semi breakdown at the Final Tribal stand out the most.)

It's also why I love SJDS. After Josh was gone, we were left with 9 extremely emotional people who really didn't talk about strategy all that much and Reed. Even Natalie got caught up in the emotions and, while she played smart, targetting Jon for WEEKS was strictly an emotional move. It was Sandra esque in a way. Sandra's "strategic" parts of her games were only because she got pissed at Jon in PI and Russell in HvV and wouldn't be satisfied until they got voted out.

If Worlds Apart is full of people who play with emotion rather than strategy, I'll love it. If it's idol this and numbers here alliances within alliances, then I'll hate it. I'm hoping with people like Rodney, Vince, Joaquin, Shirin, and Carolyn, it's dominated by emotions and not strategy and we another PI/Gabon/Nicaragua/Cagayan pre merge/SJDS.
 
eek



while I do prefer the old editing style to the new one - which some fans erroneously consider more focused on "strategy" - it's often more about the cast and what they give the editors than what the editors want to show. Thailand certainly wasn't a season with strategy at its center but it was awkward and frustrating and dreary because the cast was.

They've shown a willingness to cast some interesting people in the last few seasons and I think (or at least I hope) they realize that it's paid off both in ratings and fan appreciation.
 

Joeys_Rattata

Neo Member
Like you said, it is mostly the cast. With a few exceptions, it's not the edits that bother me. (Cagayan post merge and all of Samoa are really the only edits that bother me because they both could have been better with good editting.)

The casting is what bothers me. You mention old school and Thailand. What made a lot of the first few years of Survivor great was that Survivor was still new. No one went in thinking "I'm going to make big moves and play hard!" Rob Cesternino and John Carrol are probably the only people from the era who probably thought something close to that, but they didn't go in specifically to make big moves. No one did because it was still new and no one really knew what to do. Because of that, the people who played back then weren't strategy focused, but instead played a lot more emotionally.

Yes there were duds. Thailand and Africa weren't the best seasons and got uncomfortable at parts. But Thailand and Africa are better seasons than Redemption Island, One World, and Caramoan, where people came in with the sole intent of making big moves and playing hard.

Part of the issue with today's Survivor is they show new castaways seasons like Microensia, Heroes vs. Villains, and Redemption Island while in sequester. People who would normally go in not caring as much suddenly go in saying they're going to play like Parvati! or Boston Rob! or Russell! Or they cast super fans like Kim Spradlin, Cochran, and Spencer who aren't great personalities and sit there and talk strategy in their confessionals every episode, and they get cast because they promise to make big moves and to play to win.

Just cast people. Don't show them seasons before hand. If they get recruited to Survivor and they don't know what it is, let them do their own research. And don't cast people based on them being huge fans who promise great strategic games. Just cast a good group of people and let them play the way it comes naturally to them. If you want to cast a fan, cast fans like Denise or Kass who aren't out to play huge strategic games. I'd rather watch Denise or Kass play again than Kim or Cochran.

Like, the thing that bothers me is people want to play like BR or Parvati their first time playing and they over compensate with the strategy talk. Boston Rob and Parvati weren't all stars because they played amazing balls the wall games the first time out. Boston Rob probably stood no chance of ever winning Marquesas no matter what. Parvati probably could have won Cook Islands if Yul didn't have the super idol, but she didn't play a game that set the world on fire. It was only when they came back their second time did they think "I already did the starving thing once and it wasn't fun. If I'm coming out here again, I'm playing to win."

If Boston Rob and Parvati played balls the wall their first time they probably would have won, but it wouldn't have been nearly as fun watching them.

edit: Again, that's why I enjoy seasons like PI, Panama, Gabon, Nicaragua, and SJDS a lot. If they were shown previous seasons while sequestered, no one seemed to care. No one wanted to play big games and be the next huge strategist. They just played what came naturally to them, and that meant emotional games without a lot of strategic reasoning behind it for the vast majority of the cast. Not every season like that is going to be good though, like you said. Thailand and Fiji were like that but weren't fun to watch.

But the track record for seasons where people don't care nearly as much is a lot better (imo) than seasons where people do go in with the mind set of "I need to be the next Parvati/Boston Rob and make big moves." Those are the Redemption Islands, South Pacifics, Cagayan post merges, and Caramoans of the world. We have to sit through endless confessionals about finding idols, potential alliances, how stupid the other players are, etc. in those seasons and it's not fun.


edit 2: That's also my biggest fear about this season with Max and, to an extent, So. I like So based off of her video, but her bio saying something like "I want to be the girl who makes big moves!" worries me. My main fear is Max and So taking control of their tribe and Max, being a super fan, has confessional after confessional about "So is my main ally, but I have others. If these people were smart, they'd vote me or So out!" and then So having a confessional every other episode saying "Max and I are close, but when the time comes, I'm ready to make a big move!"

And I can already see Facebook and other Survivor sites eating it up. "Wow Max is such a great player!!!! So's a pathetic coat tail rider. Hope Max wins!!!"

I know I'm jumping to conclusions with them, but Russell, Natalie T, David Murphy, Jim Rice, Spencer, Kim Spradlin, Chelsea, Alicia Rosa, Troyzan, Cochran, etc. burned me and now I'm weary of pretty much every super fan and person who says they want to make a big move.
 
I honestly can't tell if you're still trolling us or not. The show is at its worst when the editing focuses on personalities over strategy. Ideally, you have interesting people who are thinking strategically, but I think that if you have people talking about strategy, it almost automatically makes them more fun to watch. Think of the seasons people generally hate:
- One World: until he got medevac-ed, they focused largely on Colton, and the show was became borderline unwatchable. Even after he left, they really only showed Kim strategizing, which meant we got to see people like Troyzan, Tarzan and Leif interacting.
- Redemption Island: Boston Rob strategizing, with everything else focused on what a crazy person Philip was.
- Samoa: Russell is evil! Isn't he so evil? Oh, and we have other people too.
- South Pacific: basically nothing but personalities, apart from Albert occasionally coming up with ideas, then backing away from them before they could go anywhere.

If you want the difference really illustrated, though, just look at FvF2: the first half, focusing largely on Shamar, Brendan and Philip, was terrible. As soon as they're all gone, strategy takes over, and you get a pretty great second half, as far as I'm concerned.

Ideally, though, you have a mix of strategy and interesting people (see: Cagayan). That's when the show becomes great. But I'll take strategy over personalities any day.
 

Joeys_Rattata

Neo Member
One World was almost completely strategy focused. Leif got airtime and was shown interacting with people? What season were you watching? Every episode in one world was focused on Kim talking strategy, Troyzan talking strategy and about how stupid the women were because they weren't play smart games, and Alicia talking strategy about overthrowing Kim but then never doing it.

btw, I don't know if you guys follow or know what edgic is. It's a sucks thing where we analyze the edits to compare seasons and just analyze in general. There are five ratings.

INV is invisible. They never spoke in the episode and no one mentioned them.
UTR is Under the Radar. Pretty self explanatory.
MOR is Middle of the Road. Basically narration and explanation without delving too deep into someone's thoughts.
CP is Complex Personality. We know what the person is thinking and why they're making decisions.
OTT is Over the Top. Think Nay, Phillip, etc.

Then there are numbers 1-5 to represent their visibility. Official edgic is calculated. How many sentences that person spoke per episode, how many confessional they got that episode, how many questions did they get at Tribal, how often were they mentioned by other players. 5 is the most visible and 1 is the least visible.

Here's Leif's edgic chart:

UTRP1 - UTR1 - INV - OTT4 - UTRM1 - MOR2 - UTR1 - UTR2 - UTR1 - UTR1

His official confessional count:

1/0/0/1/0/1/0/1/0/0

Leif was the most irrelevent and ignored person in One World, so I'm confused as to why you even brought him up, and one of the most irrelevent and ignored people in the entire show. Purple Kelly had more confessionals in Nicaragua than Leif did in One World.

Samoa wasn't really Russell as a character. That was Heroes vs. Villains. Samoa was Russell talking strategy left and right. Idol this idol that. These people are stupid, they should vote me out. I'm the greatest player the show has ever seen.

And Samoa could have been a great character driven season. It's one of the few seasons where I completely blame the edit. Laura, Erik, Natalie, Dave, Monica, Brett, and Jaison were all great whenever they came on screen, but the producers were so focused on shoving Russell down our throats and trying to convince us that he was a great player that they all got ignored in the edit. They focused on gameplay Russell so much that people still, to this day, say Russell should have beaten Natalie despite Natalie playing a game one milion times better than his. She just wan't focused on blindsides and alliances and idols. She was focused on the social and personal part of the game. There was no reason for Russell to get 108 confessionals about how great his game was, when Natalie, the winner, only got 15 confessionals all season long.

No one complains about Russell losing Heroes vs. Villains despite being the same exact person because HvV Russell was the character people remember, not the apparently brilliant strategist from Samoa.

Redemption Island did have some character in it and Phillip was unbearable, but it wasn't made any better by listening to David talk about how great he was at the game or Boston Rob's constant strategy confessionals about the buddy system or how stupid the other players were.

And Caramoan was a bad season through and through. It may have had a more character focused pre merge, but it's post merge was just as bad. Caramoan never once get interesting except for maybe the Andrea blindside. Again, I point to Cagayan as the perfect example of Character and emotion vs. strategy. Pre merge was completely character driven with little to no strategy talk at all and it was amazing. Then Sarah got voted out and Spencer started complaining and talking about forming alliances with these people and those people and how he needed to find the idol, while Tony was idol this, idol that, what if those people form an alliance and then vote this person out oh no I can't have that. The LJ/Jeremiah/Jefra string of episodes were painfully boring because all those episodes were, were Tony and Spencer talking strategy.

South Pacific I'll admit did have a lot of emotion and character, and that's really what prevents it from being the bottom tier of my personal ranking (Which consists of seasons like Redemption Island, One World, Caramoan, Fiji, and All Stars). Brandon was actually one of the bright spots of One World (and Caramoan by the way). I HATED him the first time I watched it, but after reflecting on it, Brandon was actually a complete mess of a person who had great opinions on everything. Him calling out Phillip on his bullshit and voicing what everyone else wanted to say was one of the few great moments of Caramoan.

South Pacific was bad in spite of people like Brandon, Whitney, Dawn, and Sophie, not because of them. It was bad because it was focused on Cochran's BIG MOVE and Coach controlling his alliance and Jim being such a super strategist and Ozzy predicably winning every duel and then coming back and everyone talking about what a big threat he was.

Edit: I think part of the reason I love emotion and social games more than strategic games is because Survivor, at its core, isn't a game about strategy or alliances or idols. It's purely an emotional and social game. It was a social experiment, and still is. It's not about who can form the biggest and best alliance, it's who can form the best relationships with the people on the jury. Parvati didn't beat Amanda because people admired her game, she beat Amanda because Amanda annoyed everyone. Boston Rob didn't win because of his amazing game. Had Ashley won the last immunity challenge in Redemption Island, and it had been her, Rob, and Phillip in the F3, she would have won. Rob won by default because no one liked Natalie T or Phillip, and Rob was their only option.
 
I'm not sure why I brought up Leif either, but the more I think about it, the more I think he was everything wrong with that season in a nutshell: zero personality, no strategic thinking (wasn't it implied by Probst that he was one of two contestants so bad they almost broke the game?), and basically nothing interesting about him at all, apart from the fact he slept in a box and he got thrown through the air during one of the physical challenges.

You could substitute almost anyone else for him, though, since nearly everyone that season was so bad. Troyzan gets a lot of hate, and deservedly so, but him complaining about no one being able to think strategically was still pretty accurate.

As for the other seasons, I still think you must be trolling. I mean, if those are your honest opinions, then you're totally entitled to them, but we also have diametrically opposed ideas of what makes the show good. Like, Cagayan: I'll admit there were way too many HIIs, but otherwise it was an awesome season, and I think that's because everyone there apart from Woo was playing so hard (and it didn't hurt that they were all horrifically bad at thinking things through). Pre-merge was okay, but it only became one of the best seasons ever after everyone started scrambling to keep alliances and make new ones.
 

noshten

Member
Anything is going to be better than last season. I find the three tribe seasons to overall have better post merge dynamics.

I don't know what the consensus around these parts are but I found BVW 2 to be the worst thing to happen to the show in a long time. I've personally think it was the worst pre-merge since Survivor Palau
 
Yep, those are white people. Hopefully this season is better than the last. Any potential spoilers yet?

I don't think there are any spoilers for this season so it should be safe, but constant vigilance!

Also to anyone who hasn't read it yet, Jenn's amazing interview:

http://xfinity.comcast.net/blogs/tv/2015/01/27/survivor-no-collar-jenn-i’m-super-not-honest/

My favourite bit:
Brown: People have used the word “saintly” to describe me many times. I’m like a perfect, straight-laced, straight arrow angel. I’ve never gotten in trouble. I’m really a do-gooder in my community.
Holmes: I feel like you’re lying.
Brown: I’ve never lied in my life.
Holmes: Now I know you’re lying.
Brown: (Laughs)
Holmes: People end up with nicknames on this show; “Boston” Rob, “Fabio,” “Purple” Kelly. Are you hoping to end up as “Saintly”?
Brown: I’d go for “Saint” Jenn. Or maybe “J-Breezy” which is my pimp name.
Holmes: Pimp name? It doesn’t say “pimp” on your bio. I was under the impression that you were a sailing instructor.
Brown: Technically pimping is not always legal in the country.
Holmes: My understanding is that it’s a tough occupation. I think the saying goes, “Pimping is difficult.”
Brown: The correct saying is, “Pimping is most difficult.” But I don’t think I’m going to have that hard of a time pimping, because I listen to a lot of Snoop Dogg and I do own some fur.
Holmes: We’re way off topic.

Holmes: You’ve watched “Survivor” since the 3rd grade. That makes me feel like the oldest man alive.
Brown: Well, you are the oldest man alive.
Holmes: That’s untrue. Jeff Probst is much older than I am.
Brown: I know you’re old because you’re unfamiliar with how hard it is to pimp.
 

BowieZ

Banned
What are people's thoughts on a separate thread to talk about Survivor generally, and to get "non-SurvivorGAF" people interested in Season 30 and perhaps catching up in the next 2 weeks by watching a season or two here or here?

A thread like "GAF, what are your thoughts on Survivor? What seasons have you watched?" or would that be frowned upon?
 

kirblar

Member
I think just using the season threads would be better to keep it in one place.

If it's a show, it's TAR. He has no reason to do Survivor again, and production has no need for a 5th visit.
 
3 tribes of 6 or 2 tribes of 8 for all regular seasons.

2 tribes of 10 for All Stars seasons, BvW and FvF

I agree with this. I'd still like to see them try some variation of One World/One tribe or something along those lines. Obviously it'd be complicated to figure out how to make it work, but I think it has potential of being interesting.
 

Grexeno

Member
I think the next All-Stars season should be one tribe. Maybe it's completely individual everything from the start, maybe teams are picked randomly before each challenge and a random group of people go to Tribal Council every week.

They're All-Stars. Throw all sorts of shit at them.
 
3 tribes is one of the changes I don't really mind, honestly. Just like some of the stated reasons for having a final 3 instead of a final 2 I don't actually think it actually solves many of the supposed problems with a 2 tribe setup, but I definitely agree that it's easier to pick out individuals if they aren't lost in a bigger group.

Given some of the feedback they've received over the last few seasons, they *might* be (re)learning what makes the show good.
 
I think the next All-Stars season should be one tribe. Maybe it's completely individual everything from the start, maybe teams are picked randomly before each challenge and a random group of people go to Tribal Council every week.

They're All-Stars. Throw all sorts of shit at them.

Yeah, I agree. I think All-Stars is the one time it makes sense to really try to shake shit up. They know the old game, let them know what helped them before while trying to learn new aspects of the game. I think it'd be hard to do changing teams for immunity and tribal council, but there has to be some way to mix up the more vital parts of the game without changing what the game is at its core.
 
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