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[OctoMan]

Due to certain events in my life, I've taken an interest in and been trying to read up on a topic that I've never held a strong opinion on before: gun control. It's certainly a hot button topic, so hopefully it stays civil. It's a topic that always seemed to me that was made into a bigger problem than it really is.

Anyways, I was just curious about people's thoughts on Switzerland. It has the 4th highest gun ownership rate in the world. Yet it has the lowest violent crime of any country in the world. The two stats would certainly seem to be at odds with each other.

Their gun laws seem relaxed. Owning semi-automatics doesn't even seem to be controversial in the least bit. They recently made it so that military ammo has to remain on military bases.

I'm American so it's all literally foreign to me. It's a true gun culture that exists with basically no problems and not a lot of opposition to it. Information I looked up makes the lack of gun violence a product of a culture of patriotism, civic duty, and history to protect the homeland. That's funny because that's in line with what the gun people in America will use to defends the right to bear arms, although these same people aren't likely to be the ones commiting gun crimes I guess. If guns are here to stay, and it seems to me they are no matter what you think, it'd be great to hear how we could get closer to a culture like they have.


More info:
http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/

http://www.elist10.com/top-10-countries-lowest-recorded-crime-rate/

 

[entremet]

Homogenous culture, low population, low poverty rates, minimal to little gang activity would be my bets.

 

[CitizenVectron]

They have a less violent and more socially-conscious culture than the United States.

 

[halfbeast]

they use knives more.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Homogenous culture, low population, low poverty rates, minimal to little gang activity would be my bets.

ding ding ding

Conscription is also a fairly important factor. Everyone is fully taught about firearm operation and safety.

 

[Sendou]

If guns are here to stay, and it seems to me they are no matter what you think, it'd be great to hear how we could get closer to a culture like they have.

Conscription system.

 

[Platy]

Social equality ... no need to steal if the goverment give you

 

[pantsmith]

ding ding ding

Conscription is also a fairly important factor. Everyone is fully taught about firearm operation and safety.

This is a huge part. The population is both armed and trained. You are less likely to misuse a weapon when you have been taught to use it properly, and less likely to turn your gun on someone else when everyone is trained and packing too.

"Shortly before World War I, the German Kaiser was the guest of the Swiss government to observe military maneuvers. The Kaiser asked a Swiss militiaman: 'You are 500,000 and you shoot well, but if we attack with 1,000,000 men what will you do?' The soldier replied: 'We will shoot twice and go home.'"

 

[Trokil]

Homogenous culture, low population, low poverty rates, minimal to little gang activity would be my bets.

Well, homogenous not so much. 20% of the population are foreigners, we have 4 different official languages and there also a very high suicide rate with guns.

It's not that easy. Low polulation is also not true, we are moving towards 9 Million which is a lot for such a small country.

But we do still have a working social system, of course the right is trying to get rid of of, so they can lower the taxes, but at the moment it is still working.

 

[danwarb]

Well, homogenous not so much. 20% of the population are foreigners, we have 4 different official languages and there also a very high suicide rate with guns.

It's not that easy. Low polulation is also not true, we are moving towards 9 Million which is a lot for such a small country.

But we do still have a working social system, of course the right is trying to get rid of of, so they can lower the taxes, but at the moment it is still working.

The right everywhere, always trying to make the world worse for everyone without realizing it.

 

[IISANDERII]

The education systems are galaxies apart.

 

[Sylver]

 

[danthefan]

Well, homogenous not so much. 20% of the population are foreigners, we have 4 different official languages and there also a very high suicide rate with guns.

It's not that easy. Low polulation is also not true, we are moving towards 9 Million which is a lot for such a small country.

But we do still have a working social system, of course the right is trying to get rid of of, so they can lower the taxes, but at the moment it is still working.

Is it fair to say most of those foreigners would be in fairly well paid jobs?

 

[Ferrio]

Coincidentally saw this on imgur today.

 

[Plinko]

The lack of handgun permits is the key. If we got rid of handguns in the U.S. but still allowed other things, it would go a LONG way in reducing gun violence.

 

[Apt101]

The Swedes just don't have the same kind of gumption and thirst for freedom that Americans do, which is why we shoot our guns so much.

But seriously, it's obvious that social and economic equities are the reasons why.

 

[Link]

Coincidentally saw this on imgur today.

Pack it up, folks. We're done here.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Coincidentally saw this on imgur today.

And done. Please american gun nuts, grasp at some other straw. Who know, you may die of heartbreak as the government literally STEAL ur guns, but maybe hundred of others lives will be saved, but yeah, we don't want that.

 

[Gurgelhals]

This is a pretty distorted / misleading description (from one of the articles linked by the OP):

Even though Switzerland has not been involved in an armed conflict since a standoff between Catholics and Protestants in 1847, the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public. Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder.

I'm Swiss and I would find it pretty weird if not disconcerting to see a civilian openly carrying a gun or rifle in public. To be honest, I can't remember having ever seen somebody in plain civilian clothes carrying a firearm here. What you see a lot in public are army recruits carrying their rifles (military service is still mandatory for every male citizen here), but these people are in uniform, of course. And maybe you'll meet one or the other hunter when you're out hiking in the Alps, but that's about it. What I'm trying to say is that Swiss gun culture is not comparable to US gun culture simply because it's no really that visible as the article might suggest.

 

[Deku Tree]

Switzerland is a very homogenous society compared to the USA. Yes they have different languages and different cultures in different locations. But still very homogeneous compared to USA. They also have low poverty.

They have the ETH which is a top world university and citizens can go there for free paid by taxes. They have a good social system. They care about their fellow citizens in a way that people in the USA find unfamiliar I think. I have many Swiss friends. There is also no real immigration in Switzerland compared to the USA. You can really only be born into citizenship. Or become a citizen if your parents or grandparents were born Swiss.

 

[Kathian]

The lack of handgun permits is the key. If we got rid of handguns in the U.S. but still allowed other things, it would go a LONG way in reducing gun violence.

This is what happened in the UK following Dunblane.

 

[helloresolven]

This is a huge part. The population is both armed and trained. You are less likely to misuse a weapon when you have been taught to use it properly, and less likely to turn your gun on someone else when everyone is trained and packing too.

"trained and packing too." Yeah, I'm sure the Swiss are constantly walking around with loaded guns as a deterrent to violence against them...

 

[timetokill]

Are you telling me that guns don't kill people? But that a myriad of social and economic variables influence violence?

 

[Piggus]

And done. Please american gun nuts, grasp at some other straw. Who know, you may die of heartbreak as the government literally STEAL ur guns, but maybe hundred of others lives will be saved, but yeah, we don't want that.

So much for keeping things civil. Absolutely pathetic.

 

[Raistlin]

The fact that you have to mandatory military training and can't just keep bullets at home probably has a lot to do with it as well.

 

[Trojita]

This is a pretty distorted / misleading description (from one of the articles linked by the OP):



I'm Swiss and I would find it pretty weird if not disconcerting to see a civilian openly carrying a gun or rifle in public. To be honest, I can't remember having ever seen somebody in plain civilian clothes carrying a firearm here. What you see a lot in public are army recruits carrying their rifles (military service is still mandatory for every male citizen here), but these people are in uniform, of course. And maybe you'll meet one or the other hunter when you're out hiking in the Alps, but that's about it. What I'm trying to say is that Swiss gun culture is not comparable to US gun culture simply because it's no really that visible as the article might suggest.

Yeah, the swiss gun ownership is more akin to unused weapons like antique guns or displayed Japanese swords. You get one when you are conscripted in the military and keep it when you leave, but most of the time it is left at home without ammo.

Also I couldn't imagine having a conscripted service over here. The Military heavely leans on a warped religious right point of view that gets drilled into all recruits.

 

[PantherLotus]

Isn't Sweden where all ammunition is required to be stored at gun ranges?

 

[Funky Papa]

Their gun laws seem extremely relaxed.

Quoting myself from another thread, since my ass is tired from going over the same topic over and over again.

Swiss citizens own plenty of guns, but they are also subject to some regulations that would make American conservatives shit their pants. For starters, all firearms must be stored in a safe, owners must pass stringent evaluation checks, endure proper firearms training and renew their licenses. Weapons are also registered to their owners, who cannot sell them as they please, as transactions are thoroughly documented. You also need to identify yourself when purchasing ammunition. Also, you need a firearms permit in order to purchase ammunition.

All of these policies closely mirror those of the rest of Europe and ensure that it's extremely difficult for criminals and unstable people to get a firearm. They also nip straw sellers at the bud, which are the main source of the firearms used by criminals in the United States.

Furthermore, in the case of state-issued firearms (read: army guns), you are not even allowed to open one of your ammunition tins without approval. Do that and you'll find yourself in deep shit.

Oh, gee. I wonder why the Switzerland's gun crime rates are so low. Maybe it's because THEY HAVE FUCKING SENSIBLE FIREARMS REGULATIONS.

TLDR version: Switzerland has plenty of guns, but also gun control policies that would give the NRA a massive heart attack followed by a stroke.

 

[Trokil]

Is it fair to say most of those foreigners would be in fairly well paid jobs?

Well, not all of them. Yes some, but also a lot of foreigners are here for the jobs the Swiss don't want to do anymore.

About the picture and the comments. You can have ammunition at home, today they check more often, but it's not like you get shot, if you forget a few bullets in your jacket and take it home. Happened to me during my Jungschützenkurs I took them back to the shooting range the following week.

But he is right about the social net, but as I said, the try to reduce it. Also as an historian I have to add. A lot of the social changes we did in the 20the century was not, because we were such good people, but because we were afraid the Russians may show up and if we screw our workers too hard, it may end bad for us. After the end of the UDSSR the right in Switzerland started to attack a lot of those programs. Of course they can get not too far, because of the direct democracy.

 

[Amalthea]

This is a huge part. The population is both armed and trained. You are less likely to misuse a weapon when you have been taught to use it properly, and less likely to turn your gun on someone else when everyone is trained and packing too.

Uh or maybe we just respect each other with the necessary decency and distance for each ones right to live and be.

 

[entremet]

Switzerland is a very homogenous society compared to the USA. Yes they have different languages and different cultures in different locations. But still very homogeneous compared to USA. They also have low poverty.

They have the ETH which is a top world university and citizens can go there for free paid by taxes. They have a good social system. They care about their fellow citizens in a way that people in the USA find unfamiliar I think. I have many Swiss friends. There is also no real immigration in Switzerland compared to the USA. You can really only be born into citizenship. Or become a citizen if your parents or grandparents were born Swiss.

Yep.

I would say poverty is the biggest issue with US violence.

It's also the reason for lack of educational rigor. All studies show that poorer people do worse academically in the US.

Books have be written on the subject, but the most concise summary is that poverty has a huge affect on educational outcomes.

 

[Tugatrix]

Coincidentally saw this on imgur today.

Well gun nuts can't argue with this

 

[PantherLotus]

Quoting myself from another thread, since my ass is tired from going over the same topic over and over again.


TLDR version: Switzerland has plenty of guns, but also gun control policies that would give the NRA a massive heart attack followed by a stroke.

So basically they have A TON of gun control. Nice job, OP.

 

[Delta Assault]

Well, they still put plenty of holes in things.

They just sell it as cheese.

 

[ohyouagain]

Switzerland is a very homogenous society compared to the USA. Yes they have different languages and different cultures in different locations. But still very homogeneous compared to USA. They also have low poverty.

They have the ETH which is a top world university and citizens can go there for free paid by taxes. They have a good social system. They care about their fellow citizens in a way that people in the USA find unfamiliar I think. I have many Swiss friends. There is also no real immigration in Switzerland compared to the USA. You can really only be born into citizenship. Or become a citizen if your parents or grandparents were born Swiss.

Just... don't speak about what you don't know.
Geneva has pretty much 50% foreigners in the town. Every 4th Swiss has foreign roots. 200'000 Germans emigrated to Switzerland in the last years or so.

What the hell are you talking about.
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.

 

[Trokil]

There is also no real immigration in Switzerland compared to the USA. You can really only be born into citizenship. Or become a citizen if your parents or grandparents were born Swiss.

That's not really true. You can become Swiss, if you want to. Tina Turner for example is Swiss now. It is hard, you have to know the language and the country, but after a 10-20 years you can try to become Swiss.

 

[helloresolven]

So much for keeping things civil. Absolutely pathetic.

I don't know... if I were Swiss I'd be deeply offended by the American gun rights advocates incorrectly using them as a benchmark for their beliefs.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Homogenous culture, low population, low poverty rates, minimal to little gang activity would be my bets.

Don't you bring that socialist nonsense in here!

Spoiler

You're completely right

 

[Nivash]

The lack of handgun permits is the key. If we got rid of handguns in the U.S. but still allowed other things, it would go a LONG way in reducing gun violence.

Was just about to post this: not all guns are equal. Handguns are the "killer" guns even if you look at US statistics, rifles and carbines always trail way behind. It's the same reason Sweden and Norway is ranked 9th and 10th in gun ownership per capita in the world but do not even break into the top 50 in gun killings. The vast majority of those guns are hunting rifles, everything else is tightly regulated and most illegal weapons are as a result brought in from outside.

 

[raindoc]

OBJECTIVE:
Firearms are the most common method of suicide among young men in Switzerland. From March 2003 through February 2004, the number of Swiss soldiers was halved as a result of an army reform (Army XXI), leading to a decrease in the availability of guns nationwide. The authors investigated the patterns of the overall suicide rate and the firearm suicide rate before and after the reform.
METHOD:
Using a naturalistic study design, the authors compared suicide rates before (1995–2003) and after the intervention (2004–2008) in the affected population (men ages 18–43) and in two comparison groups (women ages 18–44 and men ages 44–53). Data were received from the Swiss Federal Statistical Office. Interrupted time series analysis was used to control for preexisting temporal trends. Alternative methods (Poisson regression, autocorrelation analysis, and surrogate data tests) were used to check validity.
RESULTS:
The authors found a reduction in both the overall suicide rate and the firearm suicide rate after the Army XXI reform. No significant increases were found for other suicide methods overall. An increase in railway suicides was observed. It was estimated that 22% of the reduction in firearm suicides was substituted by other suicide methods. The attenuation of the suicide rate was not compensated for during the follow-up years. Neither of the comparison groups showed statistically significant changes in firearm suicide rate and overall suicide rate.
CONCLUSIONS:
The restriction of firearm availability in Switzerland resulting from the Army XXI reform was followed by an enduring decrease in the general suicide rate.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23897090

EDIT: battery died on me: on my phone now: check wiki for gun crimes in switzerland - it's higher than in any other neighboiring country at 40 out of 53 reported incidents.

 

[takriel]

Homogenous culture, low population, low poverty rates, minimal to little gang activity would be my bets.

LOL no, we take pride in having multi-cultural big cities.

 

[TekGryphon]

I don't know... if I were Swiss I'd be deeply offended by the American gun rights advocates incorrectly using them as a benchmark for their beliefs.

Yep. Same with Jesus. That dude is gonna be piiiiiiiiiised when he comes back.

 

[OctoMan]

And done. Please american gun nuts, grasp at some other straw. Who know, you may die of heartbreak as the government literally STEAL ur guns, but maybe hundred of others lives will be saved, but yeah, we don't want that.

Thank you.

Pack it up, folks. We're done here.

Coincidentally saw this on imgur today.

That's not true though. That same topic is even addressed if you guys read the op.

 

[Deku Tree]

Just... don't speak about what you don't know.
Geneva has pretty much 50% foreigners in the town. Every 4th Swiss has foreign roots. 200'000 Germans came to our country in the last years or so.

What the hell are you talking about.
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.

Don't mean to offend you. I was comparing my observations to the USA.

That's not really true. You can become Swiss, if you want to. Tina Turner for example is Swiss now. It is hard, you have to know the language and the country, but after a 10-20 years you can try to become Swiss.

These two statements seem to me to be exactly what I was trying to say. "After 10-20 years" seems like a really long time compared to USA.

 

[Gurgelhals]

They have the ETH which is a top world university and citizens can go there for free paid by taxes. They have a good social system. They care about their fellow citizens in a way that people in the USA find unfamiliar I think. I have many Swiss friends. There is also no real immigration in Switzerland compared to the USA. You can really only be born into citizenship. Or become a citizen if your parents or grandparents were born Swiss.

Some incorrect information here: Universities aren't free in Switzerland, you have to pay tuition fees. They're very low though (compared to what you you pay for universities in the US) and, most importantly, universities are not private institutions, but state sponsored schools.

Second, immigration is a big issue in Switzerland. Some would even say that it is *the* big and controversial political issue of the day here. We've got one of the fastest growing populations in Europe largely because of immigration and some people don't like that (mostly the political right, but they're not the only ones). And you can certainly become a Swiss citizen even if you're not born as one. You have to have lived for 10 years in Switzerland, however, before you can apply for citizenship; and there's a "fast track" option if you're married to a Swiss citizen, for example.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Fair working conditions, proper training and gun laws that mean people actually have to be responsible with their weapons?

How could that possibly benefit anyone?

I can't see a single benefit.

 

[Idba]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Switzerland#Population_of_immigrant_background

Homogenous my ass.

 

[FyreWulff]

Switzerland has a massive social program and safety net. Wanna know why gangs are popular in the US? Because gangs provide better social support than our actual government.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Switzerland has gun laws that would be considered onerous and unconstitutional by most in the United States, and which would be shot on sight by the NRA.

 

[Funky Papa]

That's not true though. That same topic is even addressed if you guys read the op.

You are awfully wrong about their "relaxed" gun laws, however. Swiss' ones are pretty much in line with those from other European countries. Their gun appreciation stems mostly from the fact that their army is largely an actual well regulated militia.