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[Kintaro]

It isn't. Exploit =/= Cheat

Exploit = discovering an aspect of the game that is advantageous to the player, and using it. No codes/cheating devices/hack/outside programs required. In other words, not the player's fault the developer left the door wide open.

Yeah, it doesn't work like that. Never has, never will.

The thousands of people that exploited the pre-patch slicing didn't get a warning or got banned.
(I assume this is true, as nobody in the TOR OT has said anything nor have I received one.)

So maybe there is a difference between exploiting a game mechanic like slicing and purposefully flipping zones to generate money which is only possible by not attacking members of the opposite faction.

You're blind if you can't see the difference. Slicing was just set too high. Players weren't exploiting anything because they were just pushing a button. This is like saying players are using an exploit because a developer made a class too powerful or something.

 

[TheNatural]

LOL @ MMO games. "Hay no fair, we fucked up how we developed the game and you're taking advantage! Banned!"

 

[shintoki]

I think they just ban Gold farmers to get them to buy more copies of the game and get more months paid out of them. >_>

 

[RurouniZel]

Doesn't this rather depend on how 'legitimate' is defined? I mean, I find your argument perfectly valid - but I don't define the rules.

Anyone recall the silo bug from the original Command & Conquer? You were meant to have to build silos to increase the cap on the amount of Tiberium you could stockpile at any given time, but there was an exploit which meant you could get by with just one silo.

It's not the player's fault that the door was left open, no. But it's clearly *wrong*, and still unfair to make use of it in a multiplayer match with an opponent who doesn't make use of it.

A valid concern, but I would counter with "It's not my fault the other player isn't using/doesn't know about this exploit,". Knowledge is power, no one would call me a cheater for having every map memorized or every mechanic memorized down to reload times, lag, etc. I would just be a player who knows how to properly take advantage of what the game has to offer, intentional or otherwise.

 

[Des0lar]

So yeah. It's fake.

Nothing to see here, EA haters.

Gotta remember your name. EA apologists are the most funny people ever.

 

[DangerousDave]

Not really. It's like a 101-year-old walking into a store with a "your age off the price" offer and getting money from buying something. Against the original intent, but would you call the 101-year-old evil or clever?

I'm get sure that this old man will get banned of the store inmediatly. Or else the old guy could simply say "I buy all your stock of everything" and bankrupt the shop.

 

[JWong]

So they were banned for gold farming.

No issue heres. Move along.

 

[Darklord]

LOL @ MMO games. "Hay no fair, we fucked up how we developed the game and you're taking advantage! Banned!"

Umm, that's like every game? Go on to Halo or CoD or any online and try and use exploits and you'll get your arse banned.

 

[Neuromancer]

So they were banned for gold farming.

No issue heres. Move along.

Well...

Second, a smaller number of accounts were warned or temporarily suspended for exploiting loot containers on Ilum. To be completely clear, while players may choose to travel to Ilum earlier than the recommended level (40+) and may loot containers if they can get to them, in the cases of those customers that were warned or temporarily suspended, they were systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=120099

 

[mclem]

A valid concern, but I would counter with "It's not my fault the other player isn't using/doesn't know about this exploit,". Knowledge is power, no one would call me a cheater for having every map memorized or every mechanic memorized down to reload times, lag, etc. I would just be a player who knows how to properly take advantage of what the game has to offer, intentional or otherwise.

Queensberry rules, old chap! It's not in the *spirit* of the game, eh what?

It's an option that's available. But I don't regard it as fair play despite that. There's a key difference here between the *game* - what was intended - and the *implementation* of the game - what was actually created. 'Win at all costs' just isn't *me*. Admittedly, that might be why I lose a lot.

After all, I could win a chess match against the finest (human!) grandmasters in the world with a little bit of light kidnapping.

 

[DOA]

It isn't good players being good. It's a PVP zone. There are no enemies. It's higher level then the playerbase so it's completely empty.

Player skill has absolutely nothing to do with it.

it's up to the developers to figure up a way to prevent users from arriving to the point, where they shouldn't enter. "co-ordinates not calculated correctly" is an example (I'm not playing the game, so I don't know how they enter the Ilum system)

if you haven't figured out a way, then don't punish the ppl who get there.

in the real world, ppl put on a fence and walls, so other won't enter their property. you won't get charged in braking and entering, if you crossed an invisible line in the field.

So they were banned for gold farming.

No issue heres. Move along.

from what it says, he wasn't banned because of gold farming. he was banned because he entered a place, where they haven't found a way to prevent him from entering, so they've said "Do no enter", which we all know, doesn't do nothing but making ppl do the opposite.

i remember places, where if you've entered, while you're in a level too low, you'd be creamed in an instant by "Guardians" and such.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

Rat banned from maze for finding the wrong cheese.

Nailed it.

 

[Htown]

You people defending this are disgusting. No wonder the games industry is going down the toilet, you'll take any BS from a company and smile as they screw players over.

 

[TheNatural]

Umm, that's like every game? Go on to Halo or CoD or any online and try and use exploits and you'll get your arse banned.

Good, so it just confirms they're all fucking stupid then. Thanks for backing me up.

 

[scy]

A valid concern, but I would counter with "It's not my fault the other player isn't using/doesn't know about this exploit,". Knowledge is power, no one would call me a cheater for having every map memorized or every mechanic memorized down to reload times, lag, etc. I would just be a player who knows how to properly take advantage of what the game has to offer, intentional or otherwise.

Depends, I suppose. It's really interesting when these kinds of exploits or loopholes pop up and to see how divided the reactions are. As I said earlier, I'd have been all over doing this if I played, though I wouldn't be all that miffed if I was asked to stop.

You people defending this are disgusting. No wonder the games industry is going down the toilet, you'll take any BS from a company and smile as they screw players over.

Yup, that's exactly what I'm doing.

 

[CAW]

I was in a level 20 area and saw a level 9 standing behind a treasure chest. I was still able to run up and open it, which I thought was funny so I don't think it was an actual bot. Anyway, he was still there a few hours later and then I saw him there the next day, in the same spot.

 

[markatisu]

I actually though about going to Ilum at Level 22 just to get some increased exp and money but I figured I would get my ass handed to me so I decided against it

 

[XiaNaphryz]

from what it says, he wasn't banned because of gold farming. he was banned because he entered a place, where they haven't found a way to prevent him from entering, so they've said "Do no enter", which we all know, doesn't do nothing but making ppl do the opposite.

i remember places, where if you've entered, while you're in a level too low, you'd be creamed in an instant by "Guardians" and such.

The banning was for looting those containers in such a high quantity that it affected the player economy and kept doing it after being warned to stop.

Doing it to a much lesser degree likely wouldn't have resulted in the same action.

 

[DOA]

The banning was for looting those containers in such a high quantity that it affected the player economy and kept doing it after being warned to stop.

Doing it to a much lesser degree likely wouldn't have resulted in the same action.

then why didn't they fix the exploit earlier? like with the daily/weekly patch? or even just suspend his account until it'll all be fixed, or correct the player's economy? there can be several things, which could be done, which wouldn't involve banning.

 

[Venfayth]

People getting outraged at this are silly: exploits are exploits. Some servers' economies are fucked up enough as-is, we don't need people doing this kind of shit.

then why didn't they fix the exploit earlier? like with the daily/weekly patch? or even just suspend his account until it'll all be fixed, or correct the player's economy? there can be several things, which could be done, which wouldn't involve banning.

People who exploit this inherently understand that they're doing something clever to manipulate game mechanics to their advantage. It's abusing a loophole. Who gives a fuck if they're banned?

 

[syllogism]

There's a fine line between "acceptable exploiting" and something like duping. In both situations players know they are exploiting and both harm the economy; just saying it's up to the developers to make sure this can't happen is completely unrealistic and the burden shouldn't be solely on them. Sure the developer messed up, but in the end allowing this kind of exploiting affects everyone and not just the players involved. It appears that they handled the situation poorly, but a warning seems fine as long as it is properly worded and explains the issue clearly.

 

[Darklord]

Good, so it just confirms they're all fucking stupid then. Thanks for backing me up.

So someone fucks with the game in a way it wasn't meant to and that's fine? Ruin peoples run, screw the economy up, it's all up for grabs because they didn't iron that one exploit at launch?

 

[scy]

then why didn't they fix the exploit earlier? like with the daily/weekly patch? or even just suspend his account until it'll all be fixed, or correct the player's economy? there can be several things, which could be done, which wouldn't involve banning.

As far as I can tell, there was no knee-jerk ban; any ban done was after they were warned that repeated use would lead to it. Can't really fault them after that kind of warning. One can argue if the (temp) ban is even a proper response but that's another matter.

Also, it has been fixed, though in a rather overly simple solution: the chests have been removed. And by "correct the player's economy" I guess you mean for them remove all the money they've made from it? I suppose that's likely but people would complain just as much, really; hell, possibly more.

 

[Valnen]

You people defending this are disgusting. No wonder the games industry is going down the toilet, you'll take any BS from a company and smile as they screw players over.

When players exploit, they hurt the game as a whole and don't belong there.

 

[grap3fruitman]

So someone fucks with the game in a way it wasn't meant to and that's fine? Ruin peoples run, screw the economy up, it's all up for grabs because they didn't iron that one exploit at launch?

Playing to Win

 

[Wthermans]

then why didn't they fix the exploit earlier? like with the daily/weekly patch? or even just suspend his account until it'll all be fixed, or correct the player's economy? there can be several things, which could be done, which wouldn't involve banning.

I think that's exactly what they did. The email did not appear to be a perma-ban email.

 

[Sethos]

When players exploit, they hurt the game as a whole and don't belong there.

It clearly says in the CM response that the case mentioned in OP is real. Looting a lot of high level stuff is not a god damn exploit and it's entirely the developers fault if they can kill / loot / get credits from these mobs if unintended.

I'm definitely stopping payment on my account, not going to pay for this joker game.

 

[Interfectum]

It clearly says in the CM response that the case mentioned in OP is real. Looting a lot of high level stuff is not a god damn exploit and it's entirely the developers fault if they can kill / loot / get credits from these mobs while unintended.

I'm definitely stopping payment on my account, not going to pay for this joker game.

lol

Knee jerk reactions are hilarious.

Can I have your stuff?

 

[syllogism]

It clearly says in the CM response that the case mentioned in OP is real. Looting a lot of high level stuff is not a god damn exploit and it's entirely the developers fault if they can kill / loot / get credits from these mobs if unintended.

I'm definitely stopping payment on my account, not going to pay for this joker game.

They weren't warned/suspended for looting high level stuff, but rather for abusing an exploit that allows them to repeatedly loot the same chest over and over again by abusing a PvP mechanic

 

[Wthermans]

It clearly says in the CM response that the case mentioned in OP is real. Looting a lot of high level stuff is not a god damn exploit and it's entirely the developers fault if they can kill / loot / get credits from these mobs if unintended.

I'm definitely stopping payment on my account, not going to pay for this joker game.

Let's say you're approached by a GM while playing, they tell you what you're doing is against TOS and to stop or get banned. What is your next action? Do you A) stop doing what you were doing before the GM approached you or B) continue your actions despite the warning?

 

[TheNatural]

So someone fucks with the game in a way it wasn't meant to and that's fine? Ruin peoples run, screw the economy up, it's all up for grabs because they didn't iron that one exploit at launch?

Here's a thought: don't release a game that can be broken to pieces by something like that. If you can't do that, then don't release it, or patch it immediately. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[StuBurns]

I'm stunned this story is true, the explanation is pitiful too.

 

[syllogism]

Here's a thought: don't release a game that can be broken to pieces by something like that. If you can't do that, then don't release it, or patch it immediately. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Ahaha then the MMORPG genre wouldn't exist.

 

[PnCIa]

I don´t think i get this: Someone went to a planet that wasn´t "recommended" for him. He did some stuff there and survived (?) whatever was thrown at him even though his character was weaker than the designers expected? I dont play MMOs, but in the RPGs i know it´s a good thing to beat the odds.

 

[scy]

It clearly says in the CM response that the case mentioned in OP is real. Looting a lot of high level stuff is not a god damn exploit and it's entirely the developers fault if they can kill / loot / get credits from these mobs if unintended.

I'm definitely stopping payment on my account, not going to pay for this joker game.

Except it wasn't any of that.

So ...

I don´t think i get this: Someone went to a planet that wasn´t "recommended" for him. He did some stuff there and survived (?) whatever was thrown at him even though his character was weaker than the designers expected? I dont play MMOs, but in the RPGs i know it´s a good thing to beat the odds.

Essentially, went to a PvP-based zone that spawned chests when your side has it. Proceeded to dual box (or switch characters, have a friend, whatever) so they can switch the zone at will and respawn the chests infinitely. Since this is a high level zone, actual occupants aren't there so they're free to just abuse this system at their leisure. My understanding is there's also no PvE content there so it's not even a "good for them on surviving the zone!" situation.

 

[Wthermans]

Here's a thought: don't release a game that can be broken to pieces by something like that. If you can't do that, then don't release it, or patch it immediately. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

This was something that was discovered after launch, the game was already released. Who knows why it might have been overlooked in development (that's not what is being discussed here). It appears to me they were working to patch it after learning of the exploit (by removing the chests providing the rewards until something better can be implemented), but they had some players that were continuing to exploit this overlooked design decision. Bioware approached the players, told them to stop what they're doing, the players didn't so they temporarily banned them until the chest removal could be put in place to prevent the game's economy from being damaged.

 

[Interfectum]

I don´t think i get this: Someone went to a planet that wasn´t "recommended" for him. He did some stuff there and survived (?) whatever was thrown at him even though his character was weaker than the designers expected? I dont play MMOs, but in the RPGs i know it´s a good thing to beat the odds.

That's not why people were getting banned.

 

[Kintaro]

I'm definitely stopping payment on my account, not going to pay for this joker game.

<waves goodbye>

 

[Sethos]

Let's say you're approached by a GM while playing, they tell you what you're doing is against TOS and to stop or get banned. What is your next action? Do you A) stop doing what you were doing before the GM approached you or B) continue your actions despite the warning?

Depends on the 'exploit' - If this was a severe exploit that could put everything out of whack, economy wise I'd probably say "Okay", move on and be happy with what I had. If what I was doing truly felt legit and part of the game experience ( Going to a high level area and going nuts with a friend ) I'd tell them to shove it, take a ban and rant about it.

I've received exploited duplicated items back in vanilla WoW, sold them for a ton of gold, GM knew it and didn't do anything - They fixed the issue instead.

What's even funnier is, the excuse the action by saying it's the keep the economy balanced - Their shitty Slicing oversight didn't do that already? Some people have more money than they know what to do with it. Barely even seems like
there's any real player economy in this game.

 

[Sober]

Essentially, went to a PvP-based zone that spawned chests when your side has it. Proceeded to dual box (or switch characters, have a friend, whatever) so they can switch the zone at will and respawn the chests infinitely. Since this is a high level zone, actual occupants aren't there so they're free to just abuse this system at their leisure. My understanding is there's also no PvE content there so it's not even a "good for them on surviving the zone!" situation.

So why didn't they just copy Wintergrasp? I mean it wasn't that great of a concept but it wouldn't have resulted in this happening.

 

[Interfectum]

Depends on the 'exploit' - If this was a severe exploit that could put everything out of whack, economy wise I'd probably say "Okay", move on and be happy with what I had. If what I was doing truly felt legit and part of the game experience ( Going to a high level area and going nuts with a friend ) I'd tell them to shove it, take a ban and rant about it.

I've received exploited duplicated items back in vanilla WoW, sold them for a ton of gold, GM knew it and didn't do anything - They fixed the issue instead.

Point one: That's not why people were being banned.

Point two: Bullshit.

 

[BattleMonkey]

What's even funnier is, the excuse the action by saying it's the keep the economy balanced - Their shitty Slicing oversight didn't do that already? Some people have more money than they know what to do with it. Barely even seems like
there's any real player economy in this game.

Not true, since the nerf to slicing there was a huge shift in the economy. People no longer had infinite money wells and the price of many objects like mats tanked. A week of people abusing slicing was not going to ruin the economy long term, as usual the markets in MMOs shift.

 

[Sethos]

Point one: That's not why people were being banned.

Point two: Bullshit.

No he got banned for having two accounts on opposite factions and spawning a chest, woo big fucking exploit, that's a verbal warning at the max.

And it's not, you probably don't even know of the exploit. For a period of a few weeks, tons of duplicate items could be found in the game, people raffled these out, gave them away etc. and I got a hold of some of these duplicates. Sold them, was approached by a GM to hear where I got them from, character names, what time of day etc. but no action was ever taken against me nor the gold I acquired from selling them.

 

[Wthermans]

Depends on the 'exploit' - If this was a severe exploit that could put everything out of whack, economy wise I'd probably say "Okay", move on and be happy with what I had. If what I was doing truly felt legit and part of the game experience ( Going to a high level area and going nuts with a friend ) I'd tell them to shove it, take a ban and rant about it.

I've received exploited duplicated items back in vanilla WoW, sold them for a ton of gold, GM knew it and didn't do anything - They fixed the issue instead.

What's even funnier is, the excuse the action by saying it's the keep the economy balanced - Their shitty Slicing oversight didn't do that already? Some people have more money than they know what to do with it. Barely even seems like
there's any real player economy in this game.

That's all you needed to say. It's simple. If a GM says to stop something, listen to them or you're gonna take a ban. If you feel it's unfair, screencap the conversation (video if you got FRAPS going) and take it to the boards.

 

[Interfectum]

No he got banned for having two accounts on opposite factions and spawning a chest, woo big fucking exploit, that's a verbal warning at the max.

And it's not, you probably don't even know of the exploit. For a period of a few weeks, tons of duplicate items could be found in the game, people raffled these out, gave them away etc. and I got a hold of some of these duplicates. Sold them, was approached by a GM to hear where I got them from, character names, what time of day etc. but no action was ever taken against me.

If you were the one doing the exploiting you would've been banned. You act as if Blizzard doesn't ban people for loot exploits. LFR anyone?

Also, it doesn't matter how simple the exploit is... the dude knew what he was doing, was told to stop, he continued doing it and got a temp ban. How is that worthy of your rage?

 

[Wthermans]

No he got banned for having two accounts on opposite factions and spawning a chest, woo big fucking exploit, that's a verbal warning at the max.

And it's not, you probably don't even know of the exploit. For a period of a few weeks, tons of duplicate items could be found in the game, people raffled these out, gave them away etc. and I got a hold of some of these duplicates. Sold them, was approached by a GM to hear where I got them from, character names, what time of day etc. but no action was ever taken against me nor the gold I acquired from selling them.

Bioware gave them a verbal warning....

 

[Sethos]

That's all you needed to say. It's simple. If a GM says to stop something, listen to them or you're gonna take a ban. If you feel it's unfair, screencap the conversation (video if you got FRAPS going) and take it to the boards.

And that doesn't mean it isn't a fucking joke decision that I won't bend over to.

Bioware gave them a verbal warning....

Yeah and then they should have fixed it, not sat back and waited.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Whew, I can imagine what you guys would have thought of the Salvage bans in FFXI a few winters ago. This is nothing new and a very tame example of shit that happens in MMOs all over the place, all the time. Exploitation of a bug is explicitly forbidden in the TOS that you agree to every time you sign in.

 

[Wthermans]

And that doesn't mean it isn't a fucking joke decision that I won't bend over to.

You can disagree with their decision, but complaining about being banned after being warned is laughable and will garner little sympathy to your cause. Like I said, if you feel they're wrong, take screenshots/video and ask the devs about it on their forums.

Yeah and then they should have fixed it, not sat back and waited.

I'd say Bioware was working on a hotfix, but these players chose to continue their actions despite the warning.

 

[Rollo Lawson]

You people defending this are disgusting. No wonder the games industry is going down the toilet, you'll take any BS from a company and smile as they screw players over.

your sense of entitlement is whats disgusting. im sure there are at least dozens, maybe hundreds of things to do in the game that do not violate the TOS.