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[Wreav]

So many words for 2 things whose success or failure depend on neither.

 

[serversurfer]

You all are missing the point. Read my posts and respond tomorrow after you have some time to think about it.

What the fuck, Jeff? Try not to be so condescending. If nobody knows what you're on about, the failing is probably yours. Maybe you should take a day to figure out how to make yourself understood, and then come back and try again.

 

[On Demand]

Physical media is outdated? Since when?

Why must everything be one or the other instead of having a choice.

 

[jeff_rigby]

What the fuck, Jeff? Try not to be so condescending. If nobody knows what you're on about, the failing is probably yours. Maybe you should take a day to figure out how to make yourself understood, and then come back and try again.

There is that but I'm not smart enough to make it simpler. One either does the homework to understand or takes the authors word. Obviously the latter is not going to happen so readers need to do the former. If they don't then it's my fault?

I keep saying there is going to be a revolution in how media is delivered and that requires reading about whats coming. That is the first step but it's in technical papers and understanding is difficult. Buzz phrases like media delivered anywhere anytime on any device are accurate. How they do this and comply with DRM and the multiple resolutions, Frame rates, 10 vs 8 bit color palette and Dynamic range are what I am discussing. The hardware to do the converting can also support browser VR and all UHD blu-ray players with digital bridge will have browsers and HTML5 W3C extensions support game controllers, TV tuners, Gesture and voice control and more.

The media that is coming will be designed to use Javascript/browser as the UI and the PS4, XB1 and PCs now have WebGL browser UIs. I recognized this was coming early 2011.

 

[serversurfer]

There is that but I'm not smart enough to make it simpler. One either does the homework to understand or takes the authors word. Obviously the latter is not going to happen so readers need to do the former. If they don't then it's my fault?

Yes. If your students have no interest in learning, then you have failed them as an instructor. If you can't assist in translating the source material, then what purpose do you serve? How does your advice of, "Read it yourself, idiot," actually aid anyone at all?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Jeff at least backs up his posts and doesn't respond with half assed passive ignorance.

I don't know why the hate pile is on him for doing his homework.

What's the difference between this and "It's December, who had the best games lineup of 2015?" thread? Nothing. This is a forum of discussion. Let him talk and contribute but don't pass judgement. It's OK to speculate even if a lot of us don't invest the same energy as a Jeff.

I don't think his ideas sound like something extraordinarily out of the question.

 

[Tumle]

They say, whatever the porn industry chooses for format is what will be industry standard.

They chose the Internet a long time ago

 

[jeff_rigby]

Yes. If your students have no interest in learning, then you have failed them as an instructor. If you can't assist in translating the source material, then what purpose do you serve? How does your advice of, "Read it yourself, idiot," actually aid anyone at all?

First you need the students to do homework so they can have intelligent questions. There have been almost no questions, what needs explaining?

Most assumed I meant Gaming VR would be supported by UHD blu-ray players. I specifically mentioned browser VR and pointed to Facebook buying into Oculus Rift.

Why Facebook’s $2 Billion Bet on Oculus Rift Might One Day Connect Everyone on Earth

What comes after the smartphone? Zuckerberg believed that the answer was headsets that provide “immersive 3-D experiences”—movies and television, naturally, but also games, lectures, and business meetings.

The first call between Zuckerberg and Iribe lasted 10 minutes. Zuckerberg sang the praises of Andreessen, and then he turned the discussion to Oculus. “What do you see as the biggest market for this?” Zuckerberg asked. “Is it just about gaming?”

When Iribe said, Yeah, it’s pretty much just about gaming, at least for now, Zuckerberg seemed to lose interest. Facebook was not a video-game company and over the years had moved to make games a smaller part of what users saw when they logged on. But a few weeks after the Andreessen investment closed, Iribe wrote Zuckerberg an e-mail suggesting that the Facebook founder see Luckey’s headset for himself.

Zuckerberg may not have cared much about Oculus’s video-game ambitions, but his company’s recent billion-user milestone had put him in a reflective mood. “A billion people,” Zuckerberg mused to me. “That’s crazy. But then, when you get there, you realize a billion is sort of an arbitrary number. Our mission isn’t to connect a billion people, it’s to connect everyone in the world.” Facebook had missed out on the chance to control mobile phones, which went mainstream at about the same time Zuckerberg was hacking away in his Harvard dorm. V.R., he decided, was about to have a similar moment. “These big computing platforms come around every 10 years,” he says. “I think it’s time to start working on the next one.” He invited Iribe to show him a prototype at Facebook’s headquarters.

AMD will have a one interposer/chip PC about 2018 that will have PS4 performance and with HBM can support Low power Media which means UHD blu-ray with Digital Bridge, UHD TV and VR both browser and gaming. Every upscale home should have a PC, XB1 or PS4 to serve media and VR. The VR glasses do not need to be connected to or used in the same room as the PC. Game consoles and Blu-ray players should eventually be replaced by the PC in the living room. This is why Sony has said they are moving to services and eventually the game console will die.

In the short term, the same VR glasses will work with blu-ray players for the non-gamers or with PCs. It's in the Xbox 720 roadmap.

Upper right picture glasses connected to phone and in the text below Glasses

The following is multi-stream where UHD TV supplies multiple views of a sporting event. This can be supported by a UHD TV or a 1080P TV with a attached XB1, PS4, PC or UHD blu-ray player . The stream will likely be served via HEVC compression as a ATSC 3.0 standard or via multiple IPTV streams using the same multi-view codecs that S3D or UHD uses.

 

[Insane Metal]

I like messing with those 360º 4k YouTube videos they have now.

What? The only one I've seen is the Star Wars one. Can you provide us some links?

 

[Zaptruder]

Jeff at least backs up his posts and doesn't respond with half assed passive ignorance.

I don't know why the hate pile is on him for doing his homework.

What's the difference between this and "It's December, who had the best games lineup of 2015?" thread? Nothing. This is a forum of discussion. Let him talk and contribute but don't pass judgement. It's OK to speculate even if a lot of us don't invest the same energy as a Jeff.

I don't think his ideas sound like something extraordinarily out of the question.

It's probably because he doesn't write very well - dude throws down the jargon fast and thick and lets you make the connections that he's already made.

Ok, credit in that he doesn't treat us like idiots... but maybe you should when you're trying to make esoteric points?

and in so far as I can tell, Jeff is trying to say that 4k Bluray will work well with VR... because esoteric reasons filled with jargon.

Ok - I think most people can agree that there's some potential for VR media to be distributed on BDs...

But honestly, it just doesn't jive with the conception of VR that most people here know about - Gaming VR and application based VR.

Like... that shit's distributed via the internet, and requires fairly beefy machines and specialized developers.

The idea that a 4K BD player could be used for anything outside of simple 360 stereo media is pretty ludicrous to most users.

But... interpreting Rigby's rambling charitably - I guess the point he's trying to make is that basic media is a big and important part of our VR future. Which isn't an unreasonable point - it's much easier to make and distribute video based content then gaming apps, especially at this time.

Problem is, this isn't what he's saying - he's just rambling full bore about various standards and conventions as if it has as much meaning to us as it does to him. It doesn't - spell out the implications, and we'll discuss that.

Otherwise it really looks like ramblings from someone with aspergers...

 

[jeff_rigby]

It's probably because he doesn't write very well - dude throws down the jargon fast and thick and lets you make the connections that he's already made.

Ok, credit in that he doesn't treat us like idiots... but maybe you should when you're trying to make esoteric points?

and in so far as I can tell, Jeff is trying to say that 4k Bluray will work well with VR... because esoteric reasons filled with jargon.

Ok - I think most people can agree that there's some potential for VR media to be distributed on BDs...

But honestly, it just doesn't jive with the conception of VR that most people here know about - Gaming VR and application based VR.

Like... that shit's distributed via the internet, and requires fairly beefy machines and specialized developers.

The idea that a 4K BD player could be used for anything outside of simple 360 stereo media is pretty ludicrous to most users.

But... interpreting Rigby's rambling charitably - I guess the point he's trying to make is that basic media is a big and important part of our VR future. Which isn't an unreasonable point - it's much easier to make and distribute video based content then gaming apps, especially at this time.

Problem is, this isn't what he's saying - he's just rambling full bore about various standards and conventions as if it has as much meaning to us as it does to him. It doesn't - spell out the implications, and we'll discuss that.

Otherwise it really looks like ramblings from someone with aspergers...

I'll make it simpler. Besides the HFR (High Frame Rate) HDMI 2 can support, that is needed by VR, reading the Panasonic UHD Blu-ray digital bridge proposal gives you the hardware has to be able to handle DRM and HEVC and h.264 codecs then upconvert and downconvert video resolution that may be in 10 bit to 8 bit color palette or frame rates of 120 HZ to 30 Hz and HDR (High Dynamic range) to what can be accepted by a standard 1080P TV.

The hardware to do the above should be able to combine 5 incoming 30 Hz 720P S3D streams into one 1080P or 4K stream for display on a HD or UHD TV. This is in the Xbox 720 powerpoint and mentioned by the Sony VP as a design criteria for the PS4 (300 FPS). 5 S3D @ 30 Hz or 5 @ 60 Hz = 300 FPS. Reverse speculating gives us the PS4 & XB1 were designed to support the UHD Blu-ray digital bridge.

Ok, now...what is the CE industry going to do with this video processing power sitting there in a UHD blu-ray player with digital bridge? Will it only be used when a 1080P TV is connected to the home network and requests a movie?

OK some other givens to allow you to see the whole picture:

1) It will support a browser and the browser will support W3C extensions needed for TV, games, Gesture & voice recognition and DLNA.
2) It will have Playready 3 and Playready ND
3) It will be a Vidipath STB and Media server/Hub with all that implies
4) The FCC has some requirements for Vidipath that require control forwarding over the home network.
5) HDMI 2 has this neat feature where HDMI can be multi-streamed over the home network and any display device on the home network can receive that HDMI signal and treats it as if it's connected via the HDMI port.
6) ATSC 3.0 is browser based as is UHD blu-ray. It no longer requires Java, it can use Javascript and for older 1080P blu-ray Disks Java via RUI.

Phones:

New phones will/do support 4K and eventually ATSC 3.0 mobile
New phones, essentially any device that has secure DRM can support HDMI 2 via wifi as well as Miracast.
Phones have a browser and in 2013 Microsoft released Playready ND porting kits for Android and iOS phones
Phones will support Vidipath
Almost all phones have gesture and voice support built in

Speculated uses: (In the leaked 2010 Xbox 720 powerpoint)

1) Browser VR directly connected to the UHD Blu-ray player HDMI port using the camera for head tracking (in the Xbox 720 powerpoint this was 2014 and came first >> delayed till 2016 for the PS4)
2) HDMI 2 remote Browser VR over wifi using a phone with Positional tracking support in the glasses connected via bluetooth, video to the glasses via micro HDMI port. HDMI is needed for DRM content. Gesture tracking of hands via the built in camera in the phone.(In the Xbox 720 powerpoint this was 2015 and came last >> delayed till? Sony said there will not be a upgraded version of the VR glasses for the PS4. Microsoft?)
3) Remote game play is browser based = which the PS4 and XB1 support and Browser VR is essentially the same.

I believe the XB1 and PS4 are Vidipath Media hubs and UHD blu-ray players with digital bridge which will also support UHD TV (ATSC 3.0). In addition they can support local and remote game play. I've been saying this for two years, once you understand the leaked 2010 Xbox 720 powerpoint...it's obvious and you can tick off the points one by one over the last year. Sony officially got on board June 2011 when they announced Playready support for their products which is when Microsoft filed the domain names: Microsoft-Sony.com and Sony-Microsoft.com.

 

[spineduke]

I

OK some other givens to allow you to see the whole picture:

1) It will support a browser and the browser will support W3C extensions needed for TV, games, Gesture & voice recognition and DLNA.
2) It will have Playready 3 and Playready ND
3) It will be a Vidipath STB and Media server/Hub with all that implies
4) The FCC has some requirements for Vidipath that require control forwarding over the home network.
5) HDMI 2 has this neat feature where HDMI can be multi-streamed over the home network and any display device on the home network can receive that HDMI signal and treats it as if it's connected via the HDMI port.
6) ATSC 3.0 is browser based as is UHD blu-ray. It no longer requires Java, it can use Javascript and for older 1080P blu-ray Disks Java via RUI.

Phones:

New phones will/do support 4K and eventually ATSC 3.0 mobile
New phones, essentially any device that has secure DRM can support HDMI 2 via wifi as well as Miracast.
Phones have a browser and in 2013 Microsoft released Playready ND porting kits for Android and iOS phones
Phones will support Vidipath
Almost all phones have gesture and voice support built in

Speculated uses: (In the leaked 2010 Xbox 720 powerpoint)

1) Browser VR directly connected to the UHD Blu-ray player HDMI port using the camera for head tracking (in the Xbox 720 powerpoint this was 2014 and came first >> delayed till 2016 for the PS4)
2) HDMI 2 remote Browser VR over wifi using a phone with Positional tracking support in the glasses connected via bluetooth, video to the glasses via micro HDMI port. HDMI is needed for DRM content. Gesture tracking of hands via the built in camera in the phone.(In the Xbox 720 powerpoint this was 2015 and came last >> delayed till? Sony said there will not be a ungraded version of the VR glasses for the PS4. Microsoft?)
3) Remote game play is browser based = which the PS4 and XB1 support and Browser VR is essentially the same.

I believe the XB1 and PS4 are Vidipath Media hubs and UHD blu-ray players with digital bridge which will also support UHD TV (ATSC 3.0). In addition they can support local and remote game play. I've been saying this for two years, once you understand the leaked 2010 Xbox 720 powerpoint...it's obvious and you can tick off the points one by one over the last year. Sony officially got on board June 2011 when they announced Playready support for their products which is when Microsoft filed the domain names: Microsoft-Sony.com and Sony-Microsoft.com.

Browser VR isn't even commonly accepted terminology, so excuse most people here thinking you're talking about the most common implementation of VR. Secondly, everything here is based on white paper discussions. You're ignoring the real-world latencies and scale of work needed to deploy this for mass market. Finalizing such a framework and putting it to market will take a good deal while longer. See the Oculus and other dedicated solutions, some of them have been floating around for 6,7 years? And you don't even have mulitple points of potential failure in that specific case scenario - yet here you're talking of dealing with multiple integrated solutions between media hubs and other autonomous devices, of standards which have yet to be finalized. Then we have to get to implementation of actual VR content, which from what I've understood will take a different form - you'll need content makers to get on board.

Seriously, this is all vaporware for now. Try again in another 3-4 years.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Browser VR isn't even commonly accepted terminology, so excuse most people here thinking you're talking about the most common implementation of VR. Secondly, everything here is based on white paper discussions. You're ignoring the real-world latencies and scale of work needed to deploy this for mass market. Finalizing such a framework and putting it to market will take a good deal while longer. See the Oculus and other dedicated solutions, some of them have been floating around for 6,7 years? And you don't even have mulitple points of potential failure in that specific case scenario - yet here you're talking of dealing with multiple integrated solutions between media hubs and other autonomous devices, of standards which have yet to be finalized. Then we have to get to implementation of actual VR content, which from what I've understood will take a different form - you'll need content makers to get on board.

Seriously, this is all vaporware for now. Try again in another 3-4 years.

Gear VR browser immerses you in the Web With its new virtual-reality app, Samsung has created a very different way to interact with the Web.

Samsung Internet for Gear VR is an app that lets people browse the Web in a panoramic environment and immerse themselves in the Internet without actually downloading content to their phones. The app, set for release Wednesday, can play any HTML5 video file on the Web and also supports 360-degree and 3D video streaming.

But VR on the Web could get even more interesting if a Mozilla-led project called WebVR catches on. With that technology, programmers could build VR-tailored websites like virtual product tours, games and maps. And if WebVR-equipped browsers catch on (so far there are only WebVR prototypes of Mozilla's Firefox and Google's Chrome), then programmers could have an easier time bringing their virtual wares to multiple VR headsets.

WE ARE THE MOZILLA VR TEAM. OUR GOAL IS TO HELP BRING HIGH PERFORMANCE VIRTUAL REALITY TO THE OPEN WEB.

Google webVR builds

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/VRML/

Beloola is a social Web VR platform that allows people with shared passions to congregate in the same virtual place. It requires no additional plugins just a browser.