shinobi602
Member
Do you know how many civilians/rebel fighters were killed by NATO bombing?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Syrian army retakes Homs; terrorists flee
- Thread starter Solid warrior
- Start date
- Status
Do you know how many civilians/rebel fighters were killed by NATO bombing?
Solid warrior
Banned
This is more footage of the tapes seems to have been confiscated from terrorists hideouts showing them bombing oil pipelines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0wc6NWPkbs&feature=youtu.be
who would benefit from bombing oil pipelines? while it's very cold in Homs?
the regime? or the poor people who would die in the cold around Syria?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0wc6NWPkbs&feature=youtu.be
who would benefit from bombing oil pipelines? while it's very cold in Homs?
the regime? or the poor people who would die in the cold around Syria?
Dinosaur Tamer
Member
Well, that is easy. It would not stick anyway, there is already too much blood of your own people sticking there.
You do realize China and Russia only veto these kind of resolutions because they are both lead by dictatorial regimes cracking down on their own people striving for democracy just like Syria? They would be stupid to support resolutions that condemn their very own behavior.
Wow, agreeing with Manos, who would have thunk it? Anyway, different views of incidents are interesting.
That is not really needed.
Pretty much, yeah.
That is not really needed.
Pretty much, yeah.
as far as I'm aware, there are no official numbers (unless you count reports by the Lybian government under Gadaffi)
according to the news sites that I frequent, relatively few
but it seems there have been a number of friendly fire incidents
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
The economy is in shambles after this, and the only way for this government to keep any sort of stability will require a police state. So prolonged misery for most Syrians is likely. Maybe the alternative would be even worse, but its hard to imagine that in the abstract for most posters here. Interesting that some people do strongly believe that though.
Well, that is easy. It would not stick anyway, there is already too much blood of your own people sticking there.
You do realize China and Russia only veto these kind of resolutions because they are both lead by dictatorial regimes cracking down on their own people striving for democracy just like Syria? They would be stupid to support resolutions that condemn their very own behavior.
No I don't realize it. In fact I always find these ideology talking silly. "Oh they veto'd it because they crack down their own poeple".
1. Regardless what kind of crap your media feed you, Chinese society is much more stable than you think. Some Arab country goes banana and how does it affect China?
2. Since when is China actually worried about international opinion on Chinese domestic business? We have the veto power in UN so we don't have to care about intervention. So why do we have to care about what you, especially western civilians, think about us? Your company's opinion may have some sort of weight.
3. Seriously, if you think China may worry about Iran if Syria is compromised ... then it would actually make some sense.
Problem is most of these militias are not Syrians. They are foreigners carrying weapons offered by foreigners.
Solid warrior
Banned
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-12-22/...ilians-nato-partners-nato-planes?_s=PM:AFRICA
Do you know that Russia called for UNSC mandated investigation into NATO claims of no civilian casualty? Do you know that it was shot down by the US as "a cheap stunt"? Why are they scared to launch such an investigation if they were right?
Are the Libyan claims of more than 50,000 deaths due to NATO, true? Did you see the erased cities like Sirte for example, due to NATO aerial bombardment?
Nobody knows the facts about Libya yet. As they say, In war, truth is the first casualty.
Flatline
Banned
Stable != democratic
Sorry to break it to you but democracy doesn't work for every country.
phosphor112
Banned
Not all people need democracy to function?
Besides, often the US wont like the voted in leader and do some bullshit coup like they did with Mossadeq... A democratically voted in PM and put in a dictator to be their puppet. Just a short history lesson.
Alpha-Bromega
Member
no you just have the blood of your own people good job high five
they've been living in a police state
I find it odd that Solid rails against western media, yet used a CNN source in one his last post. Yet when anyone would point out the reported death-toll from those same media outlets it's always "suspect" and can't be verified. Shit son, those videos of the "terrorist" bombing pipelines should "suspect" as well.
Xenon - We get that you like China. Patriotism is cool and all, but the way you present yourself and your arguments makes you look like a zombie. You're presenting yourself no better than some redneck believing that the "good ole' US of A" is without fault (while still driving around with a Confederate flag).
Xenon - We get that you like China. Patriotism is cool and all, but the way you present yourself and your arguments makes you look like a zombie. You're presenting yourself no better than some redneck believing that the "good ole' US of A" is without fault (while still driving around with a Confederate flag).
Yes, let us, China and US, high five for killing our own people in the past.
No I didn't play this "China is on the high ground" game. Our intention of vetoing it is definitely out of middle east interest, but the result turns out to be good: preventing more blood shedding.
What I'm annoyed is the double standard attitude that western countries have been having for centuries: think they can solve all kinds of problems (problems judged by their rules) by bombing the "bad guy" without permission.
Civilians died of tyranny's hand: tragedy.
Civilians died of NATO bombing: necessary sacrifice towards freedom.
I call it "counterfeit freedom".
Especially when rulers decide to send tanks to crush anyone who does. I'm sure those people at Tiananmen Square didn't really want democracy, they were just kidding around. They love being controlled really. And it's a complete coincidence that "Tiananmen Square" and "democracy" are blocked on the net by the government firewall.
"Democracy doesn't work for us beause our one-party state will kill anyone who calls for it" isn't really an argument against the viability of democracy.
phosphor112
Banned
How come people ignore the actual crimes going on by these western backed rebels?
It's not ok for Assad to do it, but its ok for the rebels to do it and then some?
It's not ok for Assad to do it, but its ok for the rebels to do it and then some?
Alpha-Bromega
Member
ding ding ding ding
Sorry I don't take people who link tiananmen and democracy together seriously. They usually have no idea about what was going on in China politics world. 3 out of 4 student leaders are now working in the wall street and the 2nd hand of pro-student leader is now our PM. You have no idea.
BTW: since when is democracy blocked by the GFW?
Well I can tell you neither me or China will change probably for the rest of your life so how about put me on ignore and scratch "China" out of your dictionary?
You need a new schtick, this Chinese authoritarianism defence is old.
The page before you replied to Alpha Bromega that you were going to put China on a high pedestal. That seems to me like you're playing the "high ground" game.
RustyNails
Member
Civilians dying of regime's hand is deliberate, inconsiderate and intentional.
Civilians dying of NATO bombing is not deliberate, not inconsiderate and not intentional.
Get some perspective.
Alpha-Bromega
Member
your avatar may remind us why we are here in the first place. thanks, Britain and France!
oh and yes the logic here is sound
I remember this guy from 20th Century Gaf.
"Brave Bosche Boys Eject Polish Murderers from Poland"
"Confident German Forces Repel French Resistance Terrorisists."
"Japan Launches Harmless Surprise Rout of US Terrorists in Hawaii"
"Iran Captures Elusive Olympian Terrrorists"
"Brave Bosche Boys Eject Polish Murderers from Poland"
"Confident German Forces Repel French Resistance Terrorisists."
"Japan Launches Harmless Surprise Rout of US Terrorists in Hawaii"
"Iran Captures Elusive Olympian Terrrorists"
"duh-doi! Me no know own history."
Remember the Seven Demands? Sorta central to that whole Tiananmen square protest thing.
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/l/liang-tiananmen.html
Guess it's no surprise that someone who wants his own people to suffer under tyranny has no sympathy for the Syrians.
powersurge
Member
Are we sure this guy isn't Jackie Chan or something?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/arts/20arts-JACKIECHANSA_BRF.html
LOL the bottom line is some people died because of your action, regardless how you describe it. You go to tell those NATO bombed dead people "I'm sorry! I just press the wrong button!".
Your perspective is based on how you can sleep well during night, not the feeling of those who get bombed. Again, double standard counterfeit freedom.
phosphor112
Banned
Damn. Lmao.
Dinosaur Tamer
Member
Come on, he is just going to shrug that one of as coming from biased western media knowing nothing about Chinese politics and/or trying to harm the Chinese people by spreading lies.
Keep acting like intentions don't matter. They still do. Mass murdering your own people just to stay in power is not the same as accidentally injuring or killing innocents during a war. Your NATO bombing example is particularly warped because Gaddafi forces intentionally used civilians as human shields and actually transported corpses to bombing spots in order to make the bombings look a lot worse.
Saddam Hussein was supported by the Christian minority in Iraq as well for the same reason being given here. And Saddam era Iraq was VERY similar to Syria. A brutal leader supported by a minority powerbase and in full control of security forces enforcing law and order with an iron hand.
This setup is horrible as it involves the elites of the nation (the minority powerbase of the leaders) holding some incredibly ugly views of the impoverished majority and hoarding the wealth of the nation for themselves. These are not healthy societies and with the wide spread of the internet they are also no longer stable. Do the Syrian apologists here really think for one second that things will go back to the way they were? That people will forget that they got shelled by Syrian security forces in the name of rooting out 'terrorists'? That this won't exaggerate the divisions in what was always a fractured society?
And honestly Solid Warrior you have not responded to the parallels with Bahrain.
This setup is horrible as it involves the elites of the nation (the minority powerbase of the leaders) holding some incredibly ugly views of the impoverished majority and hoarding the wealth of the nation for themselves. These are not healthy societies and with the wide spread of the internet they are also no longer stable. Do the Syrian apologists here really think for one second that things will go back to the way they were? That people will forget that they got shelled by Syrian security forces in the name of rooting out 'terrorists'? That this won't exaggerate the divisions in what was always a fractured society?
And honestly Solid Warrior you have not responded to the parallels with Bahrain.
You can't shrug off 50k+ civilians killed during the lybian campaign or the 300k+ during the iraki war as "collateral damage for the greater good" while at the same time beeing so outraged at Syria's actions to fight off a MB led sunni uprising which has been incredibly deadly to the minorities (but I guess it's easier to feign outrage and to pose as a freedom and justice champion when there's nothing at stake for you).
What is the difference between deliberate and intentional? Also, how is bombing civilians not inconsiderate? Hrm.
shinobi602
Member
What parallels are those?
Yes, let's do what we have done to Iraq, let's turn Syria into what Iraq has become today: a peaceful, prosperous place where people live their lives happily everyday.
On a serious note: nobody here is "Syrian apologist". It's a fucked up country led by a fucked up person. But the solution to it is "bombing the bad guy"? I'm just glad all you warmongers can't do jack outside the internet otherwise I can't image how fucked up this world will become.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Assad Defense Force is becoming one of the most hillarious things I've seen on this board for awhile. It's like the staff of Russia Today has a bunch of Neogaf accounts.
el retorno
Member
Is there a North Korea defense force?
Or we could start digging through your Israel defense tirades whenever they kill the shit out of palestinians (or aid fleets, but then they truly are terrorists am I right?)
"Are Jewish folk obligated to disclose that information to potential mates?"
Hey, this is fun anyone got a link to that thread?
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Nah, it's not going to come close to what you're doing now. Seriously you people are doing gods work providing us with such great laughter.
Oh man that is some gold there. This could be fun.
"NKVD clears out Polish Forrest to Protect Against Environmental Damage"
"Indonesia treated with open arms after freeing East Timor from Terrorism"
"Nazi's liberate Warsaw from Terrorists"
Regime with a minority power base and full control of security forces crushes an uprising that consists mainly of the disenfranchised majority with the justification that they are terrorists.
Vivalaraza
Member
Interesting thread title. I know quite a few people who defend the massacre taking place in Syria. They are outraged about Bahrain though. Does not compute.
shinobi602
Member
When people start reading into things more objectively instead of drinking media kool-aid, they're automatically dismissed as a defense force to diminish their argument.
Golden ^_^
Golden ^_^
Dodging my response or did I just prove you wrong, again.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
It would be hilarious if it wasn't so disgusting.
Reminds me of the Historical Fox News pics.
Iraq was a horrible place if you were a Kurd or Shia.
Point taken, the drive by mockery that Gaf is indulging in is disheartening.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked