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[Totobeni]

Yeah... the Brazil setting, the bald look, and all the talk I heard about Max being a burnt out shitbag drunken asshole who complains constantly really turned me off on even checking the game out.

Also I guess dropping Remedy might turned many fans of the series off the game too.

 

[UrbanRats]

I hope not. I don't want any more silly GTA games.

But I do think that the GTA name has a evergreen quality to it when it comes to brand recognition and prestige in the overall media perception. A GTA release is a landmark release similar to a Blizzard launch.

Yeah it has prestige so far, but you know, you can lose that shit fast in this day and age, with so many stimuli from all directions, people attention span can only load so much, so if you don't stay relevant, it doesn't really matter who you are.
I'm not even saying that if GTA5 is shit or boring, people will turn on the series, but it would lose some of its steam and from there it's easy to fall victim of the competition, especially if you have to wait 5 or 6 years for another shot at it, while other people scratch that itch for you.

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

Also I guess dropping Remedy might turned many fans of the series off the game too.

I bet remedy would have developed it cheaper than 3-4 rockstart studios as well.

 

[wazoo]

It is impossible to know without the budget. I highly doubt they did not reach a profit with 3 million+ sales. The game would have to have had a 100 million dollar budget otherwise, and that just isn't possible.

GTA4 was 100M budget, and the MS exclusivity deal was necessaty for Take Two, so now anything is possible.

 

[Saty]

We already knew MP3 shipped 3M a week after release, so an entire month past and they didn't ship more. I assume there's not-a-small number of copies sitting in some places so the sell-through isn't too good.

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/05/22/max-payne-3-ships-3-million-units-pc-launch-pushed-worldwide-ju/

 

[Hindle]

Great news for the industry is MP 3 Underperforming, maybe they will focus on the gameplay in future. having the player fail the game if he doesn't move along fast enough was a joke.

 

[AOC83]

Great news for the industry is MP 3 Underperforming, maybe they will focus on the gameplay in future.

MP3 had the best TPS gameplay this generation, by far.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Great news for the industry is MP 3 Underperforming, maybe they will focus on the gameplay in future. having the player fail the game if he doesn't move along fast enough was a joke.

What? Max Payne 3 is some of the best pure shooter gameplay I've played in years. If a character tells you "Hurry up Max, ________ is going to happen if you stand around too long" and "blank" happens because you've stood around too long, that's your fault. There are tons of areas where you can move as slowly as you want to. In NO WAY were the issues with the game mechanics related.

The issue here is that Rockstar dropped probably 80-100 million on a linear 10 hour shooter with multiplayer in a franchise that was never a smash hit. 3 million shipped for a franchise that was on hiatus for 9 YEARS and wasn't a big seller should be a win. Game budgets are out of control, period.

 

[milanbaros]

Why didn't they release Red Dead on PC? That would've got a good return on investment.

 

[Fjordson]

Great news for the industry is MP 3 Underperforming, maybe they will focus on the gameplay in future. having the player fail the game if he doesn't move along fast enough was a joke.

I said wow.

 

[BlackArrow]

It's a shame when excellent titles such as Max Payne and Spec Ops don't get the sales they deserve.

 

[UrbanRats]

Why didn't they release Red Dead on PC? That would've got a good return on investment.

The question of our generation, really; i trust the president of the world to address the issue as soon as he/she takes seat.

 

[Hindle]

The game had way too many cut scenes, an obscene amount. Which you couldn't skip, most people are put off by things like that.

 

[michaelius]

I bet remedy would have developed it cheaper than 3-4 rockstart studios as well.

IIRC Alan Wake was profitable for them after pc version release so real Max Payne 3 would probably do much better.

Also that reminds me i need to borrow Red Dead from a friend for PS3. First rockstar game in ages i actually wanted and then they show me middle finger by not releasing it on PC.

 

[Celine]

What was Take 2 profitability in the last few years (this generation)?

 

[Cave Johnson]

Aren't R* games released this generation fall in the $100 million budget range? If so, I can see why even MP3 sales would count as a loss. After finishing the game recently, I could hardly find any reason why that game would cost so much. It felt more like a cover-shooter with bullet time mechanics which was really disappointing to me. And let's not get started on the final part.

 

[danmaku]

The game had way too many cut scenes, an obscene amount. Which you couldn't skip, most people are put off by things like that.

Bullshit. People love cutscenes, they make the game look like a movie, and movies are great! MP3 simply had an excessive budget.

 

[Aaron]

Bullshit. People love cutscenes, they make the game look like a movie, and movies are great! MP3 simply had an excessive budget.

Kojima said games shouldn't try to be movies, and he should know.

 

[Shtof]

That's what they got for thinking Max Payne 3 was a good idea. Reviving old franchises is usually not a good idea unless you have a gigantic fanbase like Mario.

 

[AOC83]

The game had way too many cut scenes, an obscene amount. Which you couldn't skip, most people are put off by things like that.

Too many cut scenes ? Debatable and most people (me included) don´t have a problem with cut scenes anyway. You´re right with the unskipable thing though, biggest flaw of the whole game imo.

 

[patapuf]

That's what they got for thinking Max Payne 3 was a good idea. Reviving old franchises is usually not a good idea unless you have a gigantic fanbase like Mario.

reviving franchises works great at times, look as DEUS Ex or Ninja Gaiden and sometimes it doesn't. Also: 3 million is not a bad number, it only is because the game cost too much to make.

 

[danmaku]

Kojima said games shouldn't try to be movies, and he should know.

And I agree with him, but the mass market doesn't seem to have any problem with cutscenes. MP3 didn't sell less than expected for his cutscenes, it sold a reasonable amount of copies for the kind of game it is and for the current market state, but not enough for its gigantic budget. That's the problem.

 

[Kouriozan]

The sad truth of HD gaming, sellings a few millions games is not enough anymore.

 

[Shiggy]

The sad truth of HD gaming, sellings a few millions games is not enough anymore.

Especially not if you have to restart the project and shift it to different developers.

 

[SolidSnakex]

The game had way too many cut scenes, an obscene amount. Which you couldn't skip, most people are put off by things like that.

I really don't think the amount of cutscenes that it had played a role in its performance. I'm pretty sure that MP3 is already the best selling game in the series. The series has never been a strong seller. And Take-Two even put the blame on MP2 when they went through a poor performance quarter

The company reforecasted sales due to "a number of factors." It cited "the shift of Mafia for Xbox and the majority of the European shipments of Mafia for PlayStation 2 from the first fiscal quarter to the second fiscal quarter; unanticipated weakness in the Company's North American publishing business during the holiday season and extending into January," and surprisingly, "continued disappointing sales of Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne."

http://www.gamespot.com/news/take-t...-south-blames-max-paynes-poor-showing-6087292

I thought it'd do well because it's Rockstar. And it really has sold well as far as being a third person shooter goes. The problem for them is that it seems like they wanted it to sell like their open world games, and that just wasn't going to happen.

 

[AOC83]

The sad truth of HD gaming, sellings a few millions games is not enough anymore.

Has nothing to do with HD gaming, you just need AAA sales if you have a AAA budget.
There are plenty of games out there that are profitable with sales between 1 and 3 million.

 

[Derrick01]

Too many cut scenes ? Debatable

Not really. You lose the debatable argument when almost half of the game is nothing but cutscenes and there's plenty of instances in the game where you'll enter a room via cutscene, gain control to walk across the room to a door, and then another cutscene starts.

Game is trash.

 

[AOC83]

Not really. You lose the debatable argument when almost half of the game is nothing but cutscenes and there's plenty of instances in the game where you'll enter a room via cutscene, gain control to walk across the room to a door, and then another cutscene starts.

Game is trash.

Well, that´s your opinion, i love the cut scenes (also a big fan of MGS) and the awesome gunplay. The only thing that bothers me is that you can´t interrupt them so the games loses a lot of single player replay value.

I don´t say that every game should be like that, but this type of design definitely has it´s place in the gaming world. If you don´t like it fine doesn´t change the fact that this game is of very high quality and has the best (debatable) TPS gameplay of this generation.

 

[Yamibito]

Not really. You lose the debatable argument when almost half of the game is nothing but cutscenes and there's plenty of instances in the game where you'll enter a room via cutscene, gain control to walk across the room to a door, and then another cutscene starts.

Game is trash.

So you're saying the game is trash because of the cutscenes and nothing else? Pretty shitty argument when the cutscenes are pretty great- even if there are a tad too many- the gameplay might be a little slower but I'd say it's just as great and story wise it honestly seemed like the place to go as far as Max being all burnt out after what he's been through, he's not going to just skip off into the sunset. It's just a different experience- a game being short doesn't really matter if it's good, Ico and Portal are proof of that, easily two of the best games of all time yet they could be completed in under 4 hours.

Also the soundtrack is fantastic, just putting that out there.

 

[Ushojax]

It seemed like everything was set up for Max Payne 3 to sell huge numbers. Popular genre, popular IP, popular developer, perfect window of release, very good reviews, massive marketing push. What went wrong?

Popular IP? It was a PC franchise that had been in stasis for 10 years. It was never going to sell well on consoles.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Also I guess dropping Remedy might turned many fans of the series off the game too.

I'm pretty sure it's already the best-selling game of the series. I don't actually think Max Payne lost money, but 3 million isn't enough as a tentpole release for a company that burns through cash like Take Two.

So it's like
"How much money did Max Payne make?"
"75 million"
"Great! How much did we spend on developing GTA, Bioshock, NBA 2k, Mafia, and Borderlands this quarter? On top of administrative costs and executive salaries and marketing Max during the NBA playoffs?"
"300 million."
"...oh."

 

[UrbanRats]

I wasn't bothered by the cutscenes on the first run, a bit excessive but nothing unbearable for me, also the gunplay felt amazing and the graphics were stellar, too.
The second run was rather dreadful though, due to the constant interruptions, definitely a problem with the game, imo.
Far from trash though.

 

[patapuf]

Popular IP? It was a PC franchise that had been in stasis for 10 years. It was never going to sell well on consoles.

especially as it wasn't exactly selling gangbusters on PC also.

anyway, budgeting a new ip/a revival in a way that it has to sell 5 million to be worth the investment doesn't sound like a good business strategy.

 

[mocoworm]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-01-take-two-sales-were-lower-than-anticipated-for-max-payne-and-spec-ops

"Despite this blow, Zelnick remained optimistic. "The outlook for our slate of upcoming releases is stronger than ever," he noted. "Early consumer enthusiasm suggests robust demand for our extraordinary lineup of upcoming releases, particularly Borderlands 2, NBA 2K13 and BioShock Infinite."

Notably, Grand Theft Auto 5 remained absent from this list, though during an investors' call it was confirmed to be "in full development and making substantial progress.""

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

It's not greed, by the way. It's an attempt to maximize shareholder return. We've discussed this before.

aka


Greed

 

[Shiggy]

I'm pretty sure it's already the best-selling game of the series. I don't actually think Max Payne lost money, but 3 million isn't enough as a tentpole release for a company that burns through cash like Take Two.

So it's like
"How much money did Max Payne make?"
"75 million"
"Great! How much did we spend on developing GTA, Bioshock, NBA 2k, Mafia, and Borderlands this quarter? On top of administrative costs and executive salaries and marketing Max during the NBA playoffs?"
"300 million."
"...oh."

I doubt that it was not losing money. After all, they had a HUGE team working on it for five years. Marketing surely wasn't cheap either.

 

[Zampano]

Real shame. MP3 is fantastic apart from unskippable cut scenes and soft lock splitting the multiplayer community. Remedy could not have made a MP3 this good. Alan Wake is proof of that.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Sure, their tactics are just unsuccessful. There's no reason to have $60 PC games, ever. And now all of a sudden Borderlands 2 and X-Com are $60. Shit Max Payne was $60 too. I guess they had to pay for nearly 50% of the game being cutscenes.

I have no idea why you think you're in a place to make such a broad and unsourced claim.

I don't get the 'greed' comments. The only reason the company exists is because of its shareholders. Do you expect shareholders to pump money into a company and not expect a return? That's not greed at all.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

What? Max Payne 3 is some of the best pure shooter gameplay I've played in years. If a character tells you "Hurry up Max, ________ is going to happen if you stand around too long" and "blank" happens because you've stood around too long, that's your fault. There are tons of areas where you can move as slowly as you want to. In NO WAY were the issues with the game mechanics related.

The issue here is that Rockstar dropped probably 80-100 million on a linear 10 hour shooter with multiplayer in a franchise that was never a smash hit. 3 million shipped for a franchise that was on hiatus for 9 YEARS and wasn't a big seller should be a win. Game budgets are out of control, period.

Thank you. People saying MP3 is a bad game don't know the extents of the mechanics. It's brilliant in that regard. The amount of cutscenes isn't the same deal as with MGS4 since MP3's mostly consist of traversal actions the player could've done used to cover up load times (mostly). And there are time limits only where it makes sense (

Spoiler

girls kidnapped? building's collapsing?

move and don't hide behind cover).

And the takeaway from this topic should be the game budget issue. 3 million sold should be great and enough to at least break even.

 

[Petrae]

I thought it'd do well because it's Rockstar.

I think that's the mistake that most people made, including TTWO brass.

 

[Hey You]

I really enjoyed Max Payne 3 and the multiplayer is enjoyable. Tried too much to be like CoD IMO.

It's too bad we probably won't see another Max Payne game. In addition to the huge dev & marketing budget, didn't Take Two spend millions to buy the IP?

 

[mephixto]

I still think that Castlevania Lord of shadows and Max Payne 3 at ealry stages of development were new IP's, but the publisher forced the name of a know franchise to avoid a possible fail.

 

[Hey You]

I still think that Castlevania Lord of shadows and Max Payne 3 at ealry stages of development were new IP's, but the publisher forced the name of a know franchise to avoid a possible fail.

I don't think that's the case since TT bought the Max Payne IP from Remedy.

 

[ctrayne]

.

 

[Hindle]

Not really. You lose the debatable argument when almost half of the game is nothing but cutscenes and there's plenty of instances in the game where you'll enter a room via cutscene, gain control to walk across the room to a door, and then another cutscene starts.

Game is trash.

Yep this, seems people love to watch games instead of play them, afterall cinema ticket costs £6 in the UK. If I want to watch a story I can get it for far less the price of what Rockstar charged for this.

 

[Hindle]

Too many cut scenes ? Debatable and most people (me included) don´t have a problem with cut scenes anyway. You´re right with the unskipable thing though, biggest flaw of the whole game imo.

I think people will have a problem with narrative driven games going forward tbh, I expect them to start underperforming more often.

 

[GitarooMan]

I think Max Payne 3 is fantastic. I think the franchise is probably over for now, but I'm glad we got this game. One of the best of the year for me so far.

 

[MormaPope]

Not really. You lose the debatable argument when almost half of the game is nothing but cutscenes and there's plenty of instances in the game where you'll enter a room via cutscene, gain control to walk across the room to a door, and then another cutscene starts.

Game is trash.

You can't argue that there is a lot of cut scenes, but your point is sorta misguided. There isn't a single loading screen during the Single player, it really is completely seamless in that aspect, and abundant loading screens irks me much more than a seamless cutscene.

Your constant complaints about MP3's cutscenes will be overlooked by some people that played the game. If loading screens were included in the game, would there be more open levels and less cutscenes? would be a much better discussion than your borderline troll comment "Game is Trash".

 

[Bizazedo]

I think people will have a problem with narrative driven games going forward tbh, I expect them to start underperforming more often.

I dunno. I know I was turned off by balding, loser Max Payne. It wasn't as severe, but I did have a reaction similar to those annoyed by the new Dante in DmC.

 

[mephixto]

I don't have problems with the cutscenes, is that or loading screens. The gameplay is great, multiplayer is good but he story seems so off with the first Max Payne games, it's just another character with drink problems that like to shoot people in slow motion.