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Taking a maglev train to low-earth orbit

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sans_pants

avec_pénis
http://www.kurzweilai.net/startram-maglev-train-to-low-earth-orbit

The present cost of inserting a kilogram (2.2 lb) of cargo by rocket into low earth orbit (LEO) is about US$10,000. A manned launch to LEO costs about $100,000 per kilogram of passenger.

Instead, imagine sitting back in a comfortable magnetic levitation (maglev) train and taking a train ride into orbit.

That’s the concept for Startram, a superconducting maglev launch system.

The system would see a spacecraft magnetically levitated to avoid friction, while the same magnetic system is used to accelerate the spacecraft to orbital velocities — just under 9 km/sec (5.6 miles/s).

Maglev passenger trains have carried passengers at nearly 600 kilometers per hour (373 mph) – spacecraft have to be some 50 times faster, but the physics and much of the engineering is the same. Like a train, the Startram track can follow the surface of the Earth for most of this length.

Sandia National Laboratories has carried out an investigation of the Startram concept. They gave Startram a clean bill of health. Estimates suggest that building a passenger-capable Startram would require 20 years and a construction budget (ignoring inflation and overoptimism) of about $60 billion.

Why take on such an enormous project? Simple — $50 per kilogram amortized launch costs, according to Startram designers. The total worldwide cost of developing and using rocket-based space travel is more than $500 billion. The Space Shuttle program cost about $170 billion. The International Space Station has cost about $150 billion to date.


As yet, we are making very little commercial use of near-Earth space beyond deployment of communication and imaging satellites. Reducing the LEO insertion costs a hundredfold should finally start our commercial exploitation of the special resources of space, according to Startram designers.


really hope the government doesnt drag their feet on this or an elevator, but you know they will
 

HyperionX

Member
I'm gonna make a wild ass guess but, it's going to cost a lot more than $60 billion.

Other than that its pretty cool. Right up there with the space elevator, but hopefully a lot more feasible.
 

Norml

Member
sounds neat.

It's easy to levitate objects electromagnetically. If you push enough current through two conductors in opposite directions, the conductors will be subject to a force pushing them apart. The more current the greater the force. With the advent of superconducting cables being developed for superconducting power grids, it is now possible to construct cables which can carry hundreds of megamps of current. These amperages are sufficient to supply a levitating force of 4 tons per meter of startram guideway, even when the conductors are separated by 20km.

One of the challenges of the Space Elevator concept is to engineer tethers that have breaking lengths (i.e. the length of tether can attain before it breaks under its own weight) of thousands of kilometers. Startram tethers, in contrast, needs tethers with breaking lengths of only tens of kilometers, which is well within the specifications of modern fibers.
http://www.startram.com/startram-technology
 

akira28

Member
like endless wars and government redundancy? or perhaps secret bank bailouts?

Without banks there is no money. Without money, there is no economy. Without wars there is no growth or expansion. Whatcha need to go go to space for? T'ain't nothin up there.


edit:
this is a joke.
 

CiSTM

Banned
We're kind of broke right now and need to spend money on things that are actually important.

That excuse won't fly until you do some trimming on defense budget. I'm not saying slash it all but without a doubt there is room for some extensive cuts.
 

jaxword

Member
The only way the government will put funding into space expansion is for military application, let's not kid ourselves here.
 

DiscoJer

Member
Without banks there is no money. Without money, there is no economy. Without wars there is no growth or expansion. Whatcha need to go go to space for? T'ain't nothin up there.

Erm, the government makes money, not banks.

The bailouts essentially took money from taxpayers, either directly, or by simply printing up more cash and thus devaluating the currency and gave it to the banks who simply made bad loans.

On the other hand, this would actually be doing something, rather than bailing out people who made foolish investments...doing things is ultimately what creates wealth, not banks.
 

akira28

Member
Erm, the government makes money, not banks.

The bailouts essentially took money from taxpayers, either directly, or by simply printing up more cash and thus devaluating the currency and gave it to the banks who simply made bad loans.

On the other hand, this would actually be doing something, rather than bailing out people who made foolish investments...doing things is ultimately what creates wealth, not banks.

The irony? Without 9/11 and the War on Terrorists, all of this might not have happened. Oil markets wouldn't have been thrown into chaos, political field would have been more stable so possibly bad economic legislation would have been challenged, or we'd have been more cognizant of what was going on and better prepared to deal with it. And of course it was all a revenge payback from extremists, for western business profiteers profiteering in the middle east/east Africa, and ignored fallout from the Cold War ops in the middle east. And all the savings? They got passed on to us, the tax payer.

But of course it all gets framed as us defending freedom, while the same shitheads who made their mints off of the backs of others, get to make 200% more money. And our space program is 30 years out of date. Plus freedom is still under attack. Yet somehow, I don't think building an astro-train will make it better. We need another war.

plus, how the fuck did he fit all of those Decepticons?
 
Neat. But while reading the excerpt I immediately had a vision of a terrorist attack on this thing, because it supposedly pokes Allah in the eye or something.

I think I even read it somewhere (Assimov or Alastair Reynolds), lol
Huge threads made of some diamond material come crushing down to earth because someone blew up the whole elevator system with a mini-nuke midway to space...
 

noah111

Still Alive
We're kind of broke right now and need to spend money on things that are actually important.
Q51kp.gif


Out with that shit. We're broke because of spending on stupid shit that is propelling us backwards, and then you call spending on a scientific advancement and technical marvel not "actually important".

This is a sweet idea, far more realistic then the space elevator idea and at the same time more simplistic. These type of tubed maglev trains are the future anyway, so applying it to space makes sense.

Only thing is that this would be somewhat pointless if we would just build a base on the moon and incredibly easily launch all of our future crafts/satellites/manned missions etc from that low gravity environment.
 

Kwhit10

Member
Without banks there is no money. Without money, there is no economy. Without wars there is no growth or expansion. Whatcha need to go go to space for? T'ain't nothin up there.

You know all the money the Gov't gave to bailout your precious banks, is more money than the ENTIRE history of NASA's budget.

1% of every dollar received for taxes over 10-12 years would pay for this. The 20 years the estimate to complete the project would take about 0.5% of every tax dollar, which is currently what NASA receives.

You underestimate the benefits of investing in projects like these. There are tons of technologies that stemmed from NASA's efforts in the 60's and 70's of leaving Earth's orbit.
 

Valnen

Member
That excuse won't fly until you do some trimming on defense budget. I'm not saying slash it all but without a doubt there is room for some extensive cuts.

Or maybe we could start taking care of people that are sick and can't afford health care. That sounds like a more worthy investment then letting rich people go into space.
 

Kwhit10

Member
Or maybe we could start taking care of people that are sick and can't afford health care. That sounds like a more worthy investment then letting rich people go into space.

You know a lot of breakthroughs in medical therapies/science came from research stemming from NASA right?
 

Valnen

Member
You know a lot of breakthroughs in medical therapies/science came from research stemming from NASA right?

I'm not sure how we'll cure cancer from making a space train that likely only people with lots of money will actually be able to use, but okay.
 
I'm not sure how we'll cure cancer from making a space train that likely only people with lots of money will actually be able to use, but okay.

Ah, nothing like the good old "Why do we spend money on A when we should be spending money on B?!" It's like there's this freaky belief that you can only spend money on one thing at a time.

"What the fuck are we sending money to Africa for when we still have poor people in America, huh?!"
 

Kwhit10

Member
I'm not sure how we'll cure cancer from making a space train that likely only people with lots of money will actually be able to use, but okay.

LASIK surgery and dialysis were stemmed from the space program. It's not that this specific project has direct impacts in medicine. But the research and technology that needs to be developed is what pushes science to come about new fields and new tech that are used in all aspects of life. For cancer the Hubble Space telescope helped with the development of cancer detection technology.

No one thought oh hey I need to heat my food up faster let me make the microwave. The microwave was the consequence of research in a totally unrelated field to heating food.
 

mclaren777

Member
How would a system like this even work? Would there just be a large ramp at the end of the track pointed into the sky?

Surely that can't be the plan, right?
 

cbox

Member
It's good to know there are still brilliant minds on this planet not incredibly intertwined with greed and thoughts of oil and old mentalities.

Magnetically lifted into space? sign me the fuck up!
 

big_z

Member
How would a system like this even work? Would there just be a large ramp at the end of the track pointed into the sky?

Surely that can't be the plan, right?

if you want peoples brains to come out their ass sure. it would have to have a tame incline to keep the G force livable. but yea it's basically a ramp pointed into the sky.
 
The cost of war in Afghanistan was roughly estimated to be $120b. Basically twice this amount. Let's just take six months off over there and buy one of these instead. And really, the Space Train is $60b over 20 years. So it's really only $3b per year. And the notion that rich people will be the only ones to use the space train? I'm sure that's what they thought about commercial flight at first, too.

So I'm all for the Space Train. BUT, in the interest of full disclosure, I have to confess I'll take my time trying it out and let someone else go first, because well... McLaren brings up a pretty good point.

And also, how does it land?
 

Polari

Member
The cost of war in Afghanistan was roughly estimated to be $120b. Basically twice this amount. Let's just take six months off over there and buy one of these instead. And really, the Space Train is $60b over 20 years. So it's really only $3b per year. And the notion that rich people will be the only ones to use the space train? I'm sure that's what they thought about commercial flight at first, too.

More like $500 billion.
 
More like $500 billion.

So the figure in the OP is wrong, and it'll actually cost twice as much as the Space Shuttle project and the ISS combined? Can I ask how you came upon that number?

Also, do you suppose that a new kind of commercial passenger/cargo transit will possibly, I dunno... make any of its money back?
 
Mass Drivers, Space Elevators and Vacuum Tunnel mag-lev trains, the day one of these becomes a real thing is the day the sci fi future we all fantasized about officially arrives.
 
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