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Team Silent (Update: Yamaoka joins Grasshopper)
- Thread starter SomeDude
- Start date
TheJollyCorner
Member
Shidoshi-
from what I understand, it wasn't necessarily that Tsuboyama, Imamura, and Co. ran out of ideas- it was KCEJ that continued to throw up road blocks for them... i.e. SH3 changing scenarios in a more 'marketable direction', an original IP (Room 302) being converted into a Silent Hill almost half-way through in hopes of some kind of bizarre competition with Resident Evil 4, and the original ideas they had for SH5 to kind of reinvent the series (which sounded full of potential) completely being scrapped.
Hell, Imamura came up with an idea back in 2001 that would be brilliant today with the whole PSN/XBL set-up. He thought it would be interesting to release SH games (using the SH2 engine) on a bi-monthly basis telling different bizarre, haunting tales in the town of Silent Hill. He related it to 'The Twilight Zone'. The idea was to charge about $20 or so for each unrelated 'episode'.
I guess at the time SH wasn't popular enough to warrant this... and maybe the whole operation in 2001 just seemed too unrealistic and ambitious for KCEJ?
It would be perfect now.
It's just a shame... but I predicted this not long after SH2.
Silent Hill was always an obscure alternative to the much more mainstream, popular Resident Evil series. It seemed to come out of nowhere, took people by surprise, and became a cult (no pun intended) hit. It just so happened that the stars were aligned and all was good with KCEJ (probably knowing MGS2 was coming) and the team was really able to make their masterpiece with hardly any corporate pressure and full artistic freedom with SH2.
What we saw really was that great reckless abandon by KCEJ saying "Ehh... just make your game- we don't have much to lose at this point (even if it bombs we have MGS2)"... and the result was SH2.
It all really went downhill after that.
Konami began to realize they finally had marketable potential with SH, since the fan-base was growing pretty significantly.
What really makes me sad isn't that we are missing those great, bizarre "we are Japanese trying to make a Western horror and the result is artistically surreal madness"- it's that Team Silent really had some fucking amazing technical designers. SH2-3 (and 4, when dealing with 'the room') are still some of the most graphically impressive games I've ever seen.
I couldn't even imagine what those guys could have done with PS3/360 hardware.
Maybe if the demand's high Konami might listen and try to bring even some of them back for a new game. Doubtful... but you gotta have hope.
The closest 'experience' in a game I've had like SH2 since it released was, believe it or not, Sony's Rule of Rose. Taking the shoe-horned combat gameplay out of the equation, RoR had that same tragic, desperate, depressing tone... and one of the most fascinating and disturbing 'twists' I've ever encountered in a game. Much like SH2, I was left thinking about RoR for weeks afterwords.
I recommend it to anyone that can easily forgive clunky gameplay and wants an atmospheric, well-written story like SH2.
from what I understand, it wasn't necessarily that Tsuboyama, Imamura, and Co. ran out of ideas- it was KCEJ that continued to throw up road blocks for them... i.e. SH3 changing scenarios in a more 'marketable direction', an original IP (Room 302) being converted into a Silent Hill almost half-way through in hopes of some kind of bizarre competition with Resident Evil 4, and the original ideas they had for SH5 to kind of reinvent the series (which sounded full of potential) completely being scrapped.
Hell, Imamura came up with an idea back in 2001 that would be brilliant today with the whole PSN/XBL set-up. He thought it would be interesting to release SH games (using the SH2 engine) on a bi-monthly basis telling different bizarre, haunting tales in the town of Silent Hill. He related it to 'The Twilight Zone'. The idea was to charge about $20 or so for each unrelated 'episode'.
I guess at the time SH wasn't popular enough to warrant this... and maybe the whole operation in 2001 just seemed too unrealistic and ambitious for KCEJ?
It would be perfect now.
It's just a shame... but I predicted this not long after SH2.
Silent Hill was always an obscure alternative to the much more mainstream, popular Resident Evil series. It seemed to come out of nowhere, took people by surprise, and became a cult (no pun intended) hit. It just so happened that the stars were aligned and all was good with KCEJ (probably knowing MGS2 was coming) and the team was really able to make their masterpiece with hardly any corporate pressure and full artistic freedom with SH2.
What we saw really was that great reckless abandon by KCEJ saying "Ehh... just make your game- we don't have much to lose at this point (even if it bombs we have MGS2)"... and the result was SH2.
It all really went downhill after that.
Konami began to realize they finally had marketable potential with SH, since the fan-base was growing pretty significantly.
What really makes me sad isn't that we are missing those great, bizarre "we are Japanese trying to make a Western horror and the result is artistically surreal madness"- it's that Team Silent really had some fucking amazing technical designers. SH2-3 (and 4, when dealing with 'the room') are still some of the most graphically impressive games I've ever seen.
I couldn't even imagine what those guys could have done with PS3/360 hardware.
Maybe if the demand's high Konami might listen and try to bring even some of them back for a new game. Doubtful... but you gotta have hope.
The closest 'experience' in a game I've had like SH2 since it released was, believe it or not, Sony's Rule of Rose. Taking the shoe-horned combat gameplay out of the equation, RoR had that same tragic, desperate, depressing tone... and one of the most fascinating and disturbing 'twists' I've ever encountered in a game. Much like SH2, I was left thinking about RoR for weeks afterwords.
I recommend it to anyone that can easily forgive clunky gameplay and wants an atmospheric, well-written story like SH2.
plagiarize
Banned
i've talked at length about it previously, so i'll be as brief as possible.Fady K said:How could you like Homecoming more than 2 but less than 1, 0 and 3?You're the first Silent Hill fan to place 2 in such a low position. But like you, i LOVED Homecoming. And yes, Hell Descent was awesome! I wish there was more to it, but it was one of my favorite areas in a Silent Hill game. I loved the plot too, no matter how predictable people say it was, and i felt it was sad and memorable. Great music too. Great protagonist - my favorite in a Silent Hill game, in fact. The environments were amazing, the transitions, the combat was great too, even though I felt the AI was a little wonky at times. Homecoming is a classic to me, that would have been perfect if it given the proper next-gen treatment technically.
I really look forward to Shattered Memories
the enemies were all too similar and completely unthreatening, pyramid head aside. the story was good, but i had zero empathy for James
and i didn't remotely care if he killed his dead wife for a good reason or for selfish reasons
i didn't like the style (and imho underuse) of dark silent hill, going from the awesome industrial rust of the original to a more green and decayed version.
i'm not the only one that places it so low though. pretty sure CVXfreak agrees with me, though i might be confusing him with someone else.
i know people say that it 'makes sense from a story perspective' for the enemies to be similar and unthreatening, but i'll never understand why sacrificing gameplay for story is a good idea.
also i didn't like how low the stakes were. since i didn't like James or care about his dead wife, i didn't really see the motivation for being in Fuckedupville as i did in 1, 3 and 0.
trying to find your missing daughter is a really good reason to go someplace that is really fucking scary. trying to
remember why you killed your wife
just imho.
i played 1 through 3 back to back not that long ago. despite it's PSX graphics, the original easily impressed me the most. that's actually why i had big hopes for Siren... but sadly... the difficulty curve was just too frustrating for me.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I just want someone to go back and remake the original SH for modern hardware. Mainly because I find it hard to pick which of the first two Silent Hills I like better.
Because they are in a bunch of ways quite different gameplay experiences; SH1 is a far more aggressively scary game, whereas SH2 is all about this tragic funereal mystery.
The type of "horror" is tonally different.
I think maybe this is what Yamoaka (as producer) has gotten hung up on, and why he's pushed the action angle so much under his tenure. I've always though that this was a mistake, as the longer time you spend fighting something - the less scary and intimidating it gets.
It becomes a problem you handle, not a terrifying Lovecraftian unknown.
I think though what's really been missing though is the pacing; you need a certain ratio of spook-house to action/combat and they just can't seem to find it.
They need to find a way for you to personify an ordinary "Harry Mason" without turning him into Batman without the tights, and make it fun.
Because they are in a bunch of ways quite different gameplay experiences; SH1 is a far more aggressively scary game, whereas SH2 is all about this tragic funereal mystery.
The type of "horror" is tonally different.
I think maybe this is what Yamoaka (as producer) has gotten hung up on, and why he's pushed the action angle so much under his tenure. I've always though that this was a mistake, as the longer time you spend fighting something - the less scary and intimidating it gets.
It becomes a problem you handle, not a terrifying Lovecraftian unknown.
I think though what's really been missing though is the pacing; you need a certain ratio of spook-house to action/combat and they just can't seem to find it.
They need to find a way for you to personify an ordinary "Harry Mason" without turning him into Batman without the tights, and make it fun.
plagiarize
Banned
Shattered Memories sounds like what you want.Clear said:
i know it's what i want.
have they changed too much or is it the Wii hardware that bothers you?
it certainly looks more technically impressive than SH2.
SolidSnakex
Member
John Harker said:
Nothing about it really looks all that interesting. It's also hard for me to get excited about teams continually trying to live off the original Silent Hill instead of doing something entirely original. Part of the beauty of the series is that it sets you up to do very unique things, you don't need to retool different games in the series, just make something completely unique with completely unique characters. That's why Silent Hill and Silent Hill 2 tend to stand above the rest of the series. They're their own games.
Milk Lizard
Banned
A few of them are working on PES and mgs now. Would be amzing if they got the team back together, what they did on ps2 was pure magic.
and to the guy aasking : Siren is good but not close to being as great as SH2 & SH3.
and to the guy aasking : Siren is good but not close to being as great as SH2 & SH3.
abstract alien
Member
Its certainly my favorite as well, as it is far better than SH 2, 4, and 5. I was never really moved by SH2 to begin with(I did enjoy it though), so I never understood the excessive drooling over it, expecially compared to 3.TheChillyAcademic said:
plagiarize
Banned
Jostifer said:
they do?
they look about the same to me.
but anyways, yes Team Silent excelled at making amazing looking characters. it's everything else that looks better in Shattered Memories i'd argue (on a technical level).
as I said. i'm not the only oneabstract alien said:
I don't know that I think nothing looks interesting, but I do agree overall. I'd be considerably more excited if this were Silent Hill 6. I don't understand why all these developers are constantly hitching their bandwagons to Silent Hill 1 and 2. With the degree to which they are changing things about SH1 being so drastic, I don't understand why this is a remake at all. Why even risk stirring up that nest?SolidSnakex said:
The game's going to bomb probably--just like Homecoming-- and we're not going to get another one.
TheJollyCorner said:
If only
! Their PS2 games STILL look awesome! I can't believe Silent Hill 2 is nearly a decade old and it looks that good.TheJollyCorner said:Maybe if the demand's high Konami might listen and try to bring even some of them back for a new game. Doubtful... but you gotta have hope.
You never know, with the out-of-nowhere rebirth of Castlevania (that will hopefully please) maybe Shattered Memories will herald the return of some core team members. If it sells, that is.
TheJollyCorner said:
YES, YES, YES. Rule of Rose was extremely fascinating and disturbing, had me thinking for weeks!
HORROR FANS, PICK UP RULE OF ROSE IF YOU CAN FIND IT!
plagiarize said:
Oh i see, the thing is if you don't feel much for James' story then its understandable why you wouldn't enjoy the game as much as the others, as his story and the psychological factors based on it were the main reasons as to why i loved the game.
SolidSnakex said:
I think Shattered Memories is different enough from the original (based on what we have seen so far) that I am excited to see what Climax has in store for us, in terms of new plot points, new areas, changes to the original Silent Hill plot, the psychiatrist gameplay/plot and all. However, i agree with you in one thing - you don't need to retool different games in the series. In my opinion they should have created an all new Silent Hill with unique characters/plot with the new gameplay mechanics from Shattered Memories. That way, it can be its own game.
Regarding Konami and their treatment of the lead people involved in the series, I can never seem to grasp why they sometimes choose to rehire Ito for some small, unimportant work, as seen with the SH:O soundtrack cover or the small paintings in MGS4. It's like they choose to rehire and have this incredible creative talent and not use it. At all.
lol. Alex was a much more unoriginal character than Heather. Alex' arc was basically the exact same one as James'. This fact also contributed to Homecoming's story coming across as derivative and simple-minded fanfiction. But it was a worthy attempt at trying to mimic the previous games. As Yahtzee says, SH:H would have fared better, if it hadn't been held accountable to the more subtle symbolism and storytelling than that of SH.
I wouldn't interpret the persona of Heather to be your average, typical teenage girl. She is
. So of course, she will be less reluctant to behave and react as a typical 17-year old. And even then, there are many, many, many moments where Heather responds with fear, disgust or even despair, as any normal person would do - just as Harry and James did. On top of that, Heather exhibits much more frailty and tiredness throughout the game than some of the emotions Harry or James show. In that sense, she is unique as a character in the series.
Concerning her motivations for what she does in the first half, I think Owaku or whoever, should have made her desire to go home to her dad more explicit, like in a cutscene, instead of putting it into the various text when you investigate stuff. A lot of people are off put by the fact that there isn't any explicit reason to why she is doing what she is doing in the first half of the game; it isn't like the developers tell you "this is why Heather needs to go home right now". Instead, the information is scattered around, too obscure for many players to find. Team Silent could have done a better job in the storytelling department in that regard.
I don't think you can fault the characterization of Heather not to show the mythos of Silent Hill "through completely new eyes, from a perspective that neither Harry nor James could have ever given us". Team Silent decided to continue the ideas of the
, rather than start completely anew from a different perspective. That's why everything seems to be the same to you, because
I agree, it probably would have been interesting to see the town in a new way, but the game clearly wasn't intended to convey that - as I said, it's a continuation of the concept and symbols of the first game.
I also agree that the inclusion of a larger arsenal of weaponry detracted from the more "realistic"/mature nature of the first two games.
And I really agree that the story of SH3 is the "worst"/"least best" in the first four games. There's a couple of plotholes (why suddenly turn on the bathtub?), some motivations are left unexplained, and the final climax (the last minutes or so before the final boss battle) comes across flat - this is probably due to Konami forcing Team Silent to release the game early, instead of giving them time. Nonetheless, I still find Heather to be one of the most interesting characters in video games and even Silent Hill.
shidoshi said:
lol. Alex was a much more unoriginal character than Heather. Alex' arc was basically the exact same one as James'. This fact also contributed to Homecoming's story coming across as derivative and simple-minded fanfiction. But it was a worthy attempt at trying to mimic the previous games. As Yahtzee says, SH:H would have fared better, if it hadn't been held accountable to the more subtle symbolism and storytelling than that of SH.
I wouldn't interpret the persona of Heather to be your average, typical teenage girl. She is
the somewhat mystical or obscure result of a confrontation between Harry and the Incubus
Concerning her motivations for what she does in the first half, I think Owaku or whoever, should have made her desire to go home to her dad more explicit, like in a cutscene, instead of putting it into the various text when you investigate stuff. A lot of people are off put by the fact that there isn't any explicit reason to why she is doing what she is doing in the first half of the game; it isn't like the developers tell you "this is why Heather needs to go home right now". Instead, the information is scattered around, too obscure for many players to find. Team Silent could have done a better job in the storytelling department in that regard.
I don't think you can fault the characterization of Heather not to show the mythos of Silent Hill "through completely new eyes, from a perspective that neither Harry nor James could have ever given us". Team Silent decided to continue the ideas of the
first Silent Hill
it takes SH1 further.
I agree, it probably would have been interesting to see the town in a new way, but the game clearly wasn't intended to convey that - as I said, it's a continuation of the concept and symbols of the first game.
I also agree that the inclusion of a larger arsenal of weaponry detracted from the more "realistic"/mature nature of the first two games.
And I really agree that the story of SH3 is the "worst"/"least best" in the first four games. There's a couple of plotholes (why suddenly turn on the bathtub?), some motivations are left unexplained, and the final climax (the last minutes or so before the final boss battle) comes across flat - this is probably due to Konami forcing Team Silent to release the game early, instead of giving them time. Nonetheless, I still find Heather to be one of the most interesting characters in video games and even Silent Hill.
plagiarize
Banned
is there a direct feed version of the GC09 trailer for shattered memories yet?
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-09-silent-hill/54506
^that one.
looks awesome shot off screen, but that can sometimes be misleading.
no question about how awesome the music is though
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-09-silent-hill/54506
^that one.
looks awesome shot off screen, but that can sometimes be misleading.
no question about how awesome the music is though
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Y2Kev said:
Oh! nice, it's pretty cheap maybe....
....forget it....
brandonh83
Banned
Fady K said:
I think they're all better than Siren, I haven't beaten it but it's pretty much been the same recycled episodes with a couple of different characters each time. I just don't find anything scary about Siren at all. I think it has good graphics and a cool atmosphere, but nothing has downright scared me in it. Even Homecoming had more brilliant strokes of creative horror than Siren. Just nothing interesting seems to ever happen in it. Like Dead Space, Siren is under the false impression that simply having spooky locales and weird enemies is enough. It's not. And this is why Silent Hill will always be better.
And my Halo controls comment simply meant that I don't need Silent Hill to have amazing control.
Also, SH4 has a great story, and that alone makes it better than Siren. SH4 gets shat on a lot, but other than those damned ghosts and the horrible backtracking I think it's a great game.
plagiarize
Banned
i did really like the story in SH4. that alone makes me glad they turned it into a silent hill game.brandonh83 said:
i didn't like how seperate everything felt though, and the back tracking in the second half was horrendous.
it didn't help either that they don't tell you that not protecting what's her face makes it so hard to get the good ending, cause at first i was like 'oh, nice, i don't have to baby sit her to keep her alive!' and i was pretty disappointed when it turned out not to be the case.
some of the environments were decent too but it's definitely still my least favourite.
brandonh83
Banned
I don't blame you much. It's the one I've played through the least amount of times. It's just, beyond the problems I have with it there's a lot for me to like. I think the soundtrack is one of the best in the series, the apartment room is creepy as hell (it didn't help that I played through the entire game my freshman year in college in a dorm room by myself, it was my first time living alone and I had THAT game to play and it just added to the experience), Henry was an okay character as was Eileen, and it had some truly great moments and cool storytelling, despite it getting a bit convoluted later on.
I did get Rule of Rose thanks to the following two people, JollyCorner and Fady, but have yet to complete it. I have a pretty barren weekend ahead so the time might be right. When I beat it I will make a LTTP thread full of in-depth discussion! :lol
I did get Rule of Rose thanks to the following two people, JollyCorner and Fady, but have yet to complete it. I have a pretty barren weekend ahead so the time might be right. When I beat it I will make a LTTP thread full of in-depth discussion! :lol
plagiarize
Banned
i don't argue with what you say about the soundtrack or the stuff about the room.brandonh83 said:
i'd totally play a game entirely in first person like those sections in your apartment.
i tried to play Rule of Rose, but it was a bit too... lolicon for me. if you get what i mean.
I am really crossing my fingers to see something of Forbidden Siren 2 at TGS, are there any signs that this will happen?
My uneducated guess is that sales-wise, Forbidden Siren 1 did pretty good. This thanks to its PSN release.
I hope every self proclaimed Silent Hill fan in this thread has at least played one Siren game, magnificent series.
My uneducated guess is that sales-wise, Forbidden Siren 1 did pretty good. This thanks to its PSN release.
I hope every self proclaimed Silent Hill fan in this thread has at least played one Siren game, magnificent series.
SolidusDave
Member
Fady K said:
Quoted for truth.
Though 3 had its moments, too. But I think it was the beginning of the series to be "generic" (still a very high quality product)
The Room would have been much better, if they ditched the SH part and made it separated IP like they wanted to. Also for me, the Room needed a flashlight and darker areas to be frightening. The depressing apartment parts were good though and I give them credit for the fact they did something new.
I still liked Homecoming, especially the earlier parts were good imo (you know, when the few hell versions are actually frightening). But if you imagine a generic (western) SH game/clone, it would be this (and it's sad that if they shamelessly copy SH2, it would be a far better game).
I really hope we'll get to see more of Team Sirens work in the near future (maybe an announcement at TGS?).
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Jocchan said:
I disagree, except you consider the small room, enough to give the game a good rating in atmosphere, all the backgrounds were dull compared with most of the SH games, especially the fact there wasn't a proper metallic-dust other world in most of them.
The production values of the game were top notch, there were some very nice ideas, but overall it's one of the worst horror games I played....
brandonh83
Banned
*shrug* I don't know why people consider SH3 in the lower quadrants of SH quality. I find it to be the scariest, best-looking, most deliciously macabre installment. Story-wise it's not the peak of the series, but as a horror product, it's arguably the scariest videogame ever made. It's better than Homecoming, Origins, The Room, and yes, Siren. :lol
Well, I don't think it's scary. But, aside from that, it's the least inventive and stupidest. I mean, really. It's just so stupid. Heather is so stupid.
It has a chance to be really brilliant with that crazy guy who is like, "What, those look like monsters to you?" but it pisses it away.
It has a chance to be really brilliant with that crazy guy who is like, "What, those look like monsters to you?" but it pisses it away.
brandonh83
Banned
Y2Kev said:
Time out, bitch. Over there in the corner. Pip pip.
SH6 on Wii would've been crazy from the perspective of the company. Although just watching the furious HD fanboy outrage could have been the best thing in gaming. :lolY2Kev said:
Best would've been a Shattered Memories like game on the Wii with a unique storyline and a HD 1:1 remake of the first game instead of Homecoming (haven't played this, though).
Kasumi1970
my name is Ted
The new Siren on the ps3 is as good Silent hill. The old Siren on the ps2 was not good at all. I hated how Siren on the ps2 played.Doubledex said:Yep! Siren is awesome
Even if Team Silent never comes back (and I think it's doubtful they will), is there any chance that anyone else will ever get around the fanboyism for SH2 that seems to have infected the series?
That whole "Twilight Zone" episodic idea someone said they came up with after Silent Hill 2 sounds really neat. What if another team took up that idea and stopped trying to mess with the "why" of the town?
I for one actually have my hopes for Shattered Memories. I haven't played Origins, but from what I've seen of Shattered Memories, Climax seems like they're deliberately trying to avoid ground that's already been traveled by the previous games.
Shattered Memories is going to be about Harry Mason looking for his daughter, but from what I've seen that's where the similarities are going to end. Did you see Dhalia in the trailer? It seems like they're taking that basic setup and building their own random Silent Hill story around it. You also have to give credit where it's due for improving the actual game itself.
Say what you want about Homecoming fucking up the story or whatever, but at least it had a better camera and way better controls than any of the previous games. For all their atmosphere and storytellling, the first three Silent Hill games (and to a lesser extent The Room) worked under a pretty shitty interface. At least that's one thing the Americans taking over the franchise have fixed, and I think that's a path to potentially making the games more immersive.
Oh, and I think that Homecoming actually had some pretty cool atmospheric moments once you got to the last third of the game. There were some pretty neat sound tricks played while arriving at Silent Hill, and I thought the Otherworld versions of the Shepherd house and downtown Silent Hill were genuinely creepy.
That whole "Twilight Zone" episodic idea someone said they came up with after Silent Hill 2 sounds really neat. What if another team took up that idea and stopped trying to mess with the "why" of the town?
I for one actually have my hopes for Shattered Memories. I haven't played Origins, but from what I've seen of Shattered Memories, Climax seems like they're deliberately trying to avoid ground that's already been traveled by the previous games.
Shattered Memories is going to be about Harry Mason looking for his daughter, but from what I've seen that's where the similarities are going to end. Did you see Dhalia in the trailer? It seems like they're taking that basic setup and building their own random Silent Hill story around it. You also have to give credit where it's due for improving the actual game itself.
Say what you want about Homecoming fucking up the story or whatever, but at least it had a better camera and way better controls than any of the previous games. For all their atmosphere and storytellling, the first three Silent Hill games (and to a lesser extent The Room) worked under a pretty shitty interface. At least that's one thing the Americans taking over the franchise have fixed, and I think that's a path to potentially making the games more immersive.
Oh, and I think that Homecoming actually had some pretty cool atmospheric moments once you got to the last third of the game. There were some pretty neat sound tricks played while arriving at Silent Hill, and I thought the Otherworld versions of the Shepherd house and downtown Silent Hill were genuinely creepy.
Erebus
Member
Wow, that's the first time I hear of this. Imagine the potential this project would have on PSN/XBL in the form of episodic content.TheJollyCorner said:
It's so sad that Team Silent fell off the radar so abruptly after SH4. It's still mind-boggling to me how Konami completely relinquished this team and trusted the future of the SH franchise to some random external studios. Talking about bad decisions...
KibblesBits
Member
Kasumi1970 said:
^ Yep
You found a key!
You used the key to open the car door.
You turned on the car!
You ran over the cop! Congrats!
*clock ticking*
-_-;
TheJollyCorner said:Shidoshi-
from what I understand, it wasn't necessarily that Tsuboyama, Imamura, and Co. ran out of ideas- it was KCEJ that continued to throw up road blocks for them... i.e. SH3 changing scenarios in a more 'marketable direction', an original IP (Room 302) being converted into a Silent Hill almost half-way through in hopes of some kind of bizarre competition with Resident Evil 4, and the original ideas they had for SH5 to kind of reinvent the series (which sounded full of potential) completely being scrapped.
Hell, Imamura came up with an idea back in 2001 that would be brilliant today with the whole PSN/XBL set-up. He thought it would be interesting to release SH games (using the SH2 engine) on a bi-monthly basis telling different bizarre, haunting tales in the town of Silent Hill. He related it to 'The Twilight Zone'. The idea was to charge about $20 or so for each unrelated 'episode'.
I guess at the time SH wasn't popular enough to warrant this... and maybe the whole operation in 2001 just seemed too unrealistic and ambitious for KCEJ?
It would be perfect now.
It's just a shame... but I predicted this not long after SH2.
Silent Hill was always an obscure alternative to the much more mainstream, popular Resident Evil series. It seemed to come out of nowhere, took people by surprise, and became a cult (no pun intended) hit. It just so happened that the stars were aligned and all was good with KCEJ (probably knowing MGS2 was coming) and the team was really able to make their masterpiece with hardly any corporate pressure and full artistic freedom with SH2.
What we saw really was that great reckless abandon by KCEJ saying "Ehh... just make your game- we don't have much to lose at this point (even if it bombs we have MGS2)"... and the result was SH2.
It all really went downhill after that.
Konami began to realize they finally had marketable potential with SH, since the fan-base was growing pretty significantly.
What really makes me sad isn't that we are missing those great, bizarre "we are Japanese trying to make a Western horror and the result is artistically surreal madness"- it's that Team Silent really had some fucking amazing technical designers. SH2-3 (and 4, when dealing with 'the room') are still some of the most graphically impressive games I've ever seen.
I couldn't even imagine what those guys could have done with PS3/360 hardware.
Maybe if the demand's high Konami might listen and try to bring even some of them back for a new game. Doubtful... but you gotta have hope.
The closest 'experience' in a game I've had like SH2 since it released was, believe it or not, Sony's Rule of Rose. Taking the shoe-horned combat gameplay out of the equation, RoR had that same tragic, desperate, depressing tone... and one of the most fascinating and disturbing 'twists' I've ever encountered in a game. Much like SH2, I was left thinking about RoR for weeks afterwords.
I recommend it to anyone that can easily forgive clunky gameplay and wants an atmospheric, well-written story like SH2.
What do you think of Siren?
SolidusDave
Member
to be more specific on the question of the OP:
http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation/silent-hill/credits
Siren, PES, MGS(4) are the most titles I read after their involvement in Silent Hill(1).
Hate Siren (well, the PS3 entry) all you want, but Project Siren is the only Japanese survival horror game developer team for HD consoles.
Let's just hope they ditch the remake/episodes/too much much info (mission targets, 3D map etc.) stuff and that the PS3 Siren was successful enough for a "big" budget new sequel.
Btw I don't think the demo is really good, e.g. you don't have the sight jacking ability.
If you play Siren stealthy, it is also very rewarding and adds to the atmosphere/horror. Though once you have a weapon, you can kill enemies way to easy (well ok, they can't die so maybe that balances it :lol ).
Best Parts of the game are the ones, where you are forced to be stealthy because you have no weapon or you are a little girl (and can't fight at all). That's why most shooter-type games are never as frightening, because the enemies aren't scary anymore if you can shoot their head of with the click of a button.
example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky1bChl9Vak&fmt=18
(first half of the Episode 3, so it should not really spoiler you). The later similar episodes in the house are even better. Note, that the player in the video rushes a bit and already knows where to go / what to do.
Story could have been better executed / more in a SH2 direction though I kinda wish that for every game :lol But at least you get some WTFs.
Now, would Akira do the music... ^^ Though I like what they did in Siren, you can heae some of the pieces in the trailers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wPEwoR4loc&fmt=22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD7IdXhR06g&fmt=18
I was also pleasantly surprised at the gore/finishers/stealth kills. Adds to the atmosphere in this case imo.
one of some finisher-mix-videos:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ho32_sirenynt-yyyyyyyy-samsol_videogames
/Siren Defense Force
http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation/silent-hill/credits
Siren, PES, MGS(4) are the most titles I read after their involvement in Silent Hill(1).
Hate Siren (well, the PS3 entry) all you want, but Project Siren is the only Japanese survival horror game developer team for HD consoles.
Let's just hope they ditch the remake/episodes/too much much info (mission targets, 3D map etc.) stuff and that the PS3 Siren was successful enough for a "big" budget new sequel.
Btw I don't think the demo is really good, e.g. you don't have the sight jacking ability.
If you play Siren stealthy, it is also very rewarding and adds to the atmosphere/horror. Though once you have a weapon, you can kill enemies way to easy (well ok, they can't die so maybe that balances it :lol ).
Best Parts of the game are the ones, where you are forced to be stealthy because you have no weapon or you are a little girl (and can't fight at all). That's why most shooter-type games are never as frightening, because the enemies aren't scary anymore if you can shoot their head of with the click of a button.
example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky1bChl9Vak&fmt=18
(first half of the Episode 3, so it should not really spoiler you). The later similar episodes in the house are even better. Note, that the player in the video rushes a bit and already knows where to go / what to do.
Story could have been better executed / more in a SH2 direction though I kinda wish that for every game :lol But at least you get some WTFs.
Now, would Akira do the music... ^^ Though I like what they did in Siren, you can heae some of the pieces in the trailers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wPEwoR4loc&fmt=22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD7IdXhR06g&fmt=18
I was also pleasantly surprised at the gore/finishers/stealth kills. Adds to the atmosphere in this case imo.
one of some finisher-mix-videos:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ho32_sirenynt-yyyyyyyy-samsol_videogames
/Siren Defense Force
TheJollyCorner
Member
Kuran said:
the only sign is that Toyama and his SIREN Team haven't put out shit in like 2 years (when the Siren remake came out).
I'd really prefer them do something completely new in the genre, as opposed to SIREN 2 Remake.
SolidSnakex
Member
TheJollyCorner said:
They're almost certainly working on something in the Siren series as last year they held a contest where you could create a Shibito that would appear in a new Siren game.
TheJollyCorner
Member
SomeDude said:
like most people:
hated the PS2 version, really like the PS3 version (which fixed almost all the problems of the original). The atmosphere is amazing in both versions.
I'd buy a SIREN 2 Remake the day it drops, but like I just said, I'd prefer to see Toyama do something completely different. He's essentially been stuck in 2 Siren games for the last 7 years.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
TheJollyCorner said:
Finally, some good, in depth Silent Hill talk!!
That being said, RoR is without a doubt one of the most terrifying and disturbing games to be released thus far in gaming and in atmosphere it is matched evenly with Silent Hill 2.
Im bummed I missed out on most of this discussion, if it picks back up I'll definitely be in!!
TheJollyCorner
Member
TheChillyAcademic said:
me, too.
SO HURRY THE HELL UP, brandon!
SolidSnakex
Member
Speaking of Rule of Rose, Yoshiro Kimura (he came up with the concept) is now at Marvelous. But who knows if he'll ever do something like that again as it was way different from what he's done before or since. For example, his last game was Little King's Story.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
SolidSnakex said:
I can't imagine Rule of Rose was even remotely successful, I recall it getting nothing but mediocre scores.
brandonh83
Banned
Fady, Fady, Fady, nothing you can say can possibly make me think that Siren is scary. Not in the slightest! It's a good game! I certainly have no large degree of dislike for it. I just scoff when I see people saying that it's as good as Silent Hill.
Chill bitches I'll be on it tomorrow.
Chill bitches I'll be on it tomorrow.
IrishNinja
Member
this thread makes me sad that gamefly doesnt rent imports, i wanna try the disc version of Siren.
brandonh83 said:
Ok, im here ;D Brandon, i'm not trying to convince you that Siren is scary. Remember, up there i mentioned how scary Siren was to me, i said it scared me as much as the Silent Hill games, which did not scare me much at all - meaning none of them scared me much, so the scare factor isn't the point im tryin to drive in.
The problem is that you did not beat Siren yet and you play it at irregular intervals, im telling you as a horror fan - especially when a plot is integral to the game - not focusing on the game with a big plot can take away from its narrative power. If you do give it a shot, start over, and another thing - keep your eyes out (heck, use an FAQ/guide) to pick up all the archive items, some are extremely trivial (but cool nonetheless) and some add to the understanding of the plot.
Hold it buddy
Siren and Dead Space do not belong in the same sentence - even though I really enjoyed Dead Space - Siren is a different beast with different intentions. It does not use spooky locales and weird enemies as a reliance for a scary false impression at all. They are all part of the plot - no two ways about it. Again, ask any fan who actually knows the Siren mythos and completed the game and they will tell you that the enemies/locations in Siren are integral to the plot in the very same way that the psychological enemies/locations are integral to Silent Hill's mythos. There is absolutely nothing in Siren that it does to create a false cheap impression - it all serves a purpose, and like the better Silent Hill games, some require some theoretical assumptions in order to reach a conclusion to a certain plot point.Yes, Silent Hill: The Room had a great story, but you still can't compare it to Siren: Blood Curse's plot, not only cause you have not beaten it, but because you have showed me that you are way off from getting the plot
Hey, I actually liked The Room, loved the idea of your room warping everytime you get back to it. My least favorite Silent Hill, but i still enjoyed it. As a Silent Hill nut, i'll tell you the one Silent Hill game that Siren can't touch plot-wise is the brilliant Silent Hill 2. In fact, no horror game comes close to me story-wise.Brandonh83 said:
You're welcome, i look forward to your thread. OH - and a word of warning before you begin, so you would not set the wrong expectations - there is little to no combat in the game, and the character does not move as fast as your average Silent Hill character at all. Its a slow paced game whose brilliance will slowly unravel as you get further in. Trust me.
plagiarize said:
There was a PC horror game i played that was all in first person, but its not as good as The Room. It's called Penumbra, comes in two different parts. http://www.penumbragame.com/. I think you can pick it up online for $5-10 if you ever get bored. Its not a great game by any means, but its psychological and decent for its price.
Kuran said:
Kuran
Now here's an example of a gamer who truly understands the Siren games 
I believe that Team Siren has mentioned a few times that they are in fact working on their next project right after Siren Blood Curse was released, and as SolidSnakeX said, they held a shibito design contest for their "next game".SolidusDave said:
Me too, can't wait to see what they have in store for us.
brandonh83 said:
Silent Hill 3 is right in the middle for me. Better than Origins and The Room and just under Homecoming. Had an amazing soundtrack, some amazing locations, and i love how we had an opportunity to get a Silent Hill game that heavily ties with another game in the series.
The scariest videogame I ever played though is easily the Resident Evil remake on the Gamecube. Brrrr.
Kasumi1970 said:
Yes, the old Siren was very frustrating. Most frustrating horror game I ever played possibly. So glad they remade it into what it is now.
SolidSnakex said:
Whoa, that's interesting. First time i hear of this, I wonder what he's working on next. Would love for him to develop more horror titles.
Brandonh83 said:
You better
Enjoy Baloonatic
Member
I personally think the first two Siren games were better than Blood Curse. I've always been a huge fan of the originals and only got a PS3 and played Blood Curse recently, maybe I set my expectations too high. Still liked it though, hopefully there'll be another. I'd rather it be a full retail game and have the same stage advancement as the first two.