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[simtmb]

Forbidden Siren 2 completely owns. Definitely one of my favorite survival horror titles. The very first one, aside from general poor game design, controls etc down to the hilarious dubbing, was a pretty solid title itself (actually, it was amazing but incredibly flawed), the sequel however completely blows that game away, plus despite my gripes with New Translation/Blood Curse (i loved how the plot developed with the old titles, and the incredible breadth of characters), with these Siren games, simply give yourself to the story and take as much as you can of it in, and what you have there are proper and powerful survival horror titles.

Also, just reading another posters...posts, Fady K, is pretty much spot on with everything. Kudos.

 

[brandonh83]

Ok, im here ;D Brandon, i'm not trying to convince you that Siren is scary. Remember, up there i mentioned how scary Siren was to me, i said it scared me as much as the Silent Hill games, which did not scare me much at all - meaning none of them scared me much, so the scare factor isn't the point im tryin to drive in.

Then I'm just going to assume that Silent Hill's methods of being terrified just didn't work their way into your mind. That's fine. It doesn't have the same effect on everyone. Here's an example of what makes Silent Hill frightening to me. And just to be a bit different, I'm going to focus on an installment that isn't even the best one: Silent Hill 3. I could use Silent Hill 2 but that would be an easy trump card. It's by far the most brilliant and disturbing and psychological game ever made, so to be fair and help illustrate further how the entire Silent Hill franchise, not just one or two but all of them, are superior works of horror, in my opinion, than everything else I've touched in the genre.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0al1Ifys_1k

So, she goes into a room. In the back is a mannequin. Okay. She explores further back into the room. A scream, a thud on the floor. She returns back to the mannequin. Its head is on the floor and there's blood coming from the neck. This is the sort of creative and mindful scare tactics that Silent Hill is widely known for. It doesn't just stop at a random scream. There's a point to the scream. Games like Siren and Dead Space stop at the scream. Silent Hill keeps delivering. It's scares aren't randomly-generated noises with no meaning. What cut the head off the mannequin? Why is it bleeding? Is whatever cut the head off still around somewhere? You don't know. You just have to guess. Siren doesn't let me guess about anything. It just flat out tells me. The "scares" in Siren are reduced down to how creepy the enemies look, how creepy the location is, how creepy the music is, and nothing more. That scene in Silent Hill doesn't really happen in a creepy location because it's smarter and doesn't have to rely on its own atmosphere to be creepy and frightening. It just naturally is. Siren never threw anything at me like that. It was the same stuff over and over again, none of it scary or interesting, whereas every single Silent Hill game I've played doesn't treat me like a run of the mill horror fan and is constantly shaking things up.

Another example, from Silent Hill 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAoDU9pyv7A

Again, I would love to know where, at any point in games like Siren or Dead Space, does anything like this. This might be boring to some people. "It's just her reflection in the mirror bleeding, I want gameplay!" But thankfully Silent Hill doesn't treat me like that. It treats me like someone who is bizarrely interested in everything going on, and the weirder and more unexplainable, the better. It's a simple matter of locking you in a room and then proceeding to mess with your brain for a few minutes. You can't do anything. You can't open the door. You don't know why everything in the reflection is bleeding. And then the real Heather starts to bleed. The real walls start to bleed. Are you supposed to be doing something? Is there a key somewhere in the room? If so, where? What the hell are you supposed to be doing?

And then, the door unlocks and you are more than happy to be out of that room. In one small yet effective sequence, there was nothing, then build-up, then a realization that you're locked in there, then a massive sense of panic, and the game just sits there and lets you freak out until it decides to let you out. I haven't come across anything like this, whatsoever, in any other horror series. This is a famous sequence, but it's not the only one. See, I don't have to rely on one or two scenes to prove how skillful and varied Silent Hill is in its scare tactics. It is always doing stuff like this.

Yet again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTT-2xYAKyE

You're in Silent Hill. You're in an amusement park in Silent Hill. You're in the dark world, of an amusement park, in Silent Hill. But it gets worse: you go into the dark Silent Hill version of a theme park haunted house. When I first went in, words cannot express how terrified I was, and I was just barely through the door. Then you go further in. You're greeted by a creepy announcer. He walks you through. You see things that any other haunted house would have, except, since you're in dark Silent Hill, you're not totally sure what you're seeing, and you're not sure if those are real bodies around the kitchen table, not sure who that person is sitting in the chair in the next room, if they're dead, alive, a dummy, whatever, and so on. The game gets you to focus on the person-thing sitting in the chair, and then it drops a dead body right in front of you, causing you to drop a load. Yeah, it's a jump scare, but it was earned. There was build-up to it, and it was effective. Other horror products are fine with you walking down a hall and then something suddenly comes out of the wall! It's cheap, boring, and redundant. Silent Hill is not about that.

So now that we're past showing cool scenes on Youtube, let me discuss something else: Silent Hill's ability to make you feel like you're connected to its world. By that, I mean the games consistently have you doing things that tap into your character's psyche, providing deeper looks into their thoughts, feelings, and choices. And sometimes you make the choices. Near the end of 3, you go into a confessional booth. A lady confesses and you must either grant her peace or make her think that "god," whatever that god might be, has decided that, no, whatever you did, you must live with it for eternity. You are faced with this decision. And there's more to it. You don't see the person on the other side, you just hear "her." You have no idea what it is. Could be a human. Could be a monster of some type. Could be a figment of your imagination. It could even be lying, just there to have fun and mess with you. This is how Silent Hill works. It hates you. It's there to screw with your mind and screw with it, it does. So what do you choose? It depends on what you think is on the other side of that booth. If you grant "her" forgiveness, she deeply thanks you. And congrats, you may have just given something forgiveness that doesn't deserve it. Not only that, story-wise, you're religiously symbolized and you do have power within the spirituality of Silent Hill, so whatever decision you make may have weight to it. It's amazing how this one scene, with a couple of lines of dialogue, can be discussed in this manner. There are so many possible implications, as the majority of everything that happens in these games.

I'm sorry, but I have yet to run across anything like this. In anything. Not even film. And if you read that and scoff, please point me in the direction of a movie you have in mind, because I sure as hell haven't seen it.

The problem is that you did not beat Siren yet and you play it at irregular intervals, im telling you as a horror fan - especially when a plot is integral to the game - not focusing on the game with a big plot can take away from its narrative power. If you do give it a shot, start over, and another thing - keep your eyes out (heck, use an FAQ/guide) to pick up all the archive items, some are extremely trivial (but cool nonetheless) and some add to the understanding of the plot.

I may sound as if I don't think Siren has any merit as an artistic horror piece. It most certainly does. It's an atmospheric game with cool characters and some chapters, such as the hospital, are very effective. What I'm trying to express is that I don't think horror is effective unless there's more to it. Siren has all the outside filling of a good horror product, but what lies under its skin? No, I haven't beaten it. But I did play 3/4ths of the way through successively. I started it when it came out, dropped it, but then restarted it and played through the majority of the game. And during the entire time, it felt very static as far as creative horror is concerned. The game is utterly fantastic at making you panic and run for your life, but that's not really my thing. I explained that the mirror scene in SH3 makes you panic, but it's not a simple matter of hiding from something. The mirror scene is psychologically terrifying and, believe it or not, character development.

Hold it buddy Siren and Dead Space do not belong in the same sentence - even though I really enjoyed Dead Space - Siren is a different beast with different intentions. It does not use spooky locales and weird enemies as a reliance for a scary false impression at all. They are all part of the plot - no two ways about it. Again, ask any fan who actually knows the Siren mythos and completed the game and they will tell you that the enemies/locations in Siren are integral to the plot in the very same way that the psychological enemies/locations are integral to Silent Hill's mythos. There is absolutely nothing in Siren that it does to create a false cheap impression - it all serves a purpose, and like the better Silent Hill games, some require some theoretical assumptions in order to reach a conclusion to a certain plot point.

I'm sure. Again, Siren isn't stupid, or simple. It does have a good story. It's not a pointless endeavor. However, I would argue that it fails at getting me, personally, into it to the point that I care about it. I didn't care about any of the characters, and while the story is good, it didn't interest me much. I plan on finishing it soon, possibly after Rule of Rose, but I stopped playing Siren for a reason, and it's simply because I didn't care and the game hadn't scared me one time during my time with it nor did it do anything remotely creative or inventive. If I wrote an analysis of Siren, it would be positive. But I wouldn't have too much to say. If I wrote an analysis of any given Silent Hill game, I'd be maddened at the fact that I wouldn't know where to begin, where to end. I wouldn't be able to pick a focal point of discussion because there are so many great ones to choose from and pick through. That's why I think Silent Hill is ultimately vastly superior and potentially untouchable. Not to mention the music, sound effects, overall sound work, art direction, new, visually disturbing things around every corner which aren't just reduced to the same creatures stalking the halls like in everything else, and the fact that every single one of these things caters to the story being told and more often than not relates in some messed up way to the story, character psychology, or what have you, really drives home the fact that Silent Hill is indeed the epitome of horror.

 

[Erebus]

Fady K, do you happen to know of any good in-depth plot analysis of Siren? I found this on GameFaqs but for the most part it is describing the facts that occurred in the game rather than analyzing them.

As for myself, though I had a blast playing through Siren Blood Curse last summer, I must admit that I barely remember anything story-related from the game now. On the contrary, this hasn't happened with Silent Hill 2 and 3 even though it's been more than 3 years since I last played any of them. Guess I have to agree more with Brandon on several points about Siren, with the only exception that Siren Blood Curse did scare me while I was playing. However, after the closing credits I don't think I ever found myself thinking about the game's deeper meanings in the same way I used to do with Team Silent's SH games.

 

[brandonh83]

You know what, I'm not done. Here we go. Still just on Silent Hill 3.

Here I am, back in Alchemilla. Same ol' hospital. Again. This is what, the third time I've been here? You'd think Team Silent wouldn't succumb to the same location this many times. But this time was different. This time, the hospital was playing host to not just killer nurses and doctors and rusty halls.

"Heather, my most sacred lover. I'm always watching you.
No matter where you are or what you may be doing,
I have never lost sight of you."

It was also carrying a new patient: Stanley Coleman. I'm just minding my own business, looking for keys and numeric codes and what have you, and here's this note written to me by this Stanley Coleman character. What's so scary about a note? Well, how about the fact that there's multiple notes, seemingly placed not long before you find them. It implies that there's a psychopath wandering the halls of Alchemilla with you. And if that wasn't enough, he seems to be in love with you. Obsessed. Hellbent on you loving him back. You keep going about the hospital, wondering when or even if this maniac is going to leap around a corner and slit your throat and then engage in necrophilia. Thankfully Silent Hill isn't that in-your-face, but that's what makes it great. It sets up the very idea that you're in a hospital with a maniac who is following your every move while leaving love letters everywhere along with the same doll beside it every time. And at the end of his charade, you get a final note (this time with the doll broken into pieces) and it implies that Stanley has given up trying to get you to love him, and the broken doll may signify that he's potentially turned violent and the rest of the time you're in the hospital is miserable, not just because of how dark and twisted it already is,

but now you've got a pissed off psycho stalking you.

Where's stuff like this in other horror titles?

Another thing that makes Silent Hill stand apart from the rest: environments. Or, at least, the execution of the most chilling, bizarre, macabre, artistically violent and cruel ever imagined. See above image, for example. But let's do even better. Silent Hill 3's church is a prime example of this. More specificially, under it. The art direction is amazing. There's a hall under the church and where a wall should be, there's a lookout to a red-orange horizon. It stretches out indefinitely. Endless sky. Yet, you're under a church. This sort of thing really bothers me. Also, at the end of a nearby hallway, there is a creature turning valves with pipes running from them seemingly connected to two children, and you can only see their legs dangling. None of this is right. It's disturbing and mentally challenging. But it fascinates me at the same time. What is Team Silent trying to convey with this? Is there a deeper meaning? Probably. Maybe not. Is the endless horizon supposed to symbolize an eternal afterlife? I don't know. But the things that seem to be the most random usually have more to them than meets the eye. I'd love some theories on the valve-turning creature known as Valtiel, the endless horizon, and so on. This series gives me stuff like this to consider every time I turn a corner.

More bizarreness:

A something holding a baby's hand. If that's a baby. I don't know. Maybe the "mother" killed the child and this is her punishment: in a state of limbo, attached to the child she murdered. Not your speculation? Am I way off? That's the point.

Silent Hill 3's very own Big Bad Wolf. A mythical creature that you can only defeat by solving a fairy tale driven puzzle. You finish the puzzle, and read that the beat has been slain, and from somewhere you hear something die. You go back to that spot, and it's gone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suFY2g8O7F4

Before this cutscene, you read an article in a newspaper in the subway about a man who was shoved into the traintracks and was killed by an oncoming subway train.

I could really go on with this, but I think I've said enough. For now. I'm just left sitting here wondering about some of this stuff, even though I've wondered about it a million times before, and also wondering where stuff like this is in other horror games.

And now, I shall play Rule of Rose.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Awesome post.

I totally agree, I think the atmosphere and art direction of SH3 it's the best of the series and that makes it the most scary and creepy SH by far, maybe SH3 plot it isn't as deep and left so much stuff to people own's interpretation, it's looks most your typical horror stuff, but who cares, at the end you have an awesome game, excellent art direction, music and some nifty puzzles.

And the creature turning the valves was one of the most creepy things I saw on a videogame, it wasn't that scary looking as creepy and disturbing, I was like trying not to get close to those things, althought I know they weren't to harm me, a game that put you in a psychological status were you avoid things even if you know it's not gonna harm your character, that'sfucking great... :lol

 

[Prime Blue]

"I'm always watching you."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfa3EBvjbA0#t=0m32s

 

[brandonh83]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfa3EBvjbA0#t=0m32s

*shrug* there you go.

 

[Y2Kev]

Amma gonna buy shh I think

 

[Solo]

I'm sorry, but I have yet to run across anything like this. In anything. Not even film. And if you read that and scoff, please point me in the direction of a movie you have in mind, because I sure as hell haven't seen it.

Great post aside from this - come on, man. You cant compare interactive vs non-interactive media like that.

 

[brandonh83]

Great post aside from this - come on, man. You cant compare interactive vs non-interactive media like that.

Believe me, I understand the restrictions of both interactive and non-interactive. And there are certainly great horror films out there, and films that are mentally engaging. Books as well. I'm just saying that I've never run across a work of horror like a Silent Hill game with its level of intrigue and creativity. It's a more personal opinion I realize. I just wish there were more things like it, is all I'm saying. What I'm getting at isn't necessarily one or the other's ability to get someone into something from an immersion standpoint, but rather the ability to intrigue one's mind. There are plenty of films and books that do this, just not really much in the horror genre.

So it's not really a matter of competition, or comparing different kinds of media, though I may have come off that way. I just wish there were more horror films, for example, as both richly terrifying and engaging from an artistic and narrative point of view, that does both, like Silent Hill does. In my experience with horror, it's either going for straight-up fear, or going for depth. I haven't seen much that executes both as well.

 

[Fady K]

I personally think the first two Siren games were better than Blood Curse. I've always been a huge fan of the originals and only got a PS3 and played Blood Curse recently, maybe I set my expectations too high. Still liked it though, hopefully there'll be another. I'd rather it be a full retail game and have the same stage advancement as the first two.

I personally felt Blood Curse was a retail release in its contents (my copy was actually the Asian English retail release), what did you mean by having the same stage advancement as the first two?

By the way, your avatar, it's from that game Ku-on, right? Can you give me some impressions? Seems a bit like Fatal Frame and i'm a big fan of that series.

Forbidden Siren 2 completely owns. Definitely one of my favorite survival horror titles. The very first one, aside from general poor game design, controls etc down to the hilarious dubbing, was a pretty solid title itself (actually, it was amazing but incredibly flawed), the sequel however completely blows that game away, plus despite my gripes with New Translation/Blood Curse (i loved how the plot developed with the old titles, and the incredible breadth of characters), with these Siren games, simply give yourself to the story and take as much as you can of it in, and what you have there are proper and powerful survival horror titles.

Also, just reading another posters...posts, Fady K, is pretty much spot on with everything. Kudos.

Thanks, man. I, too, felt that Siren could have been amazing were it not for some flaws, mainly i felt that there was an imbalance to its difficulty, and the map was a bit difficult to get to grips with - two things that were thankfully fixed for the remake. Another thing that you mentioned, the hilarious dubbing - so true, i was very glad they fixed this up in Blood Curse to add to the authenticity of the plot. Unlike the majority of horror titles, it really is cool to get to play as a wide variety of characters. Different perspectives is something i'd much appreciate in other horror games.

Then I'm just going to assume that Silent Hill's methods of being terrified just didn't work their way into your mind. That's fine. It doesn't have the same effect on everyone. Here's an example of what makes Silent Hill frightening to me. And just to be a bit different, I'm going to focus on an installment that isn't even the best one: Silent Hill 3. I could use Silent Hill 2 but that would be an easy trump card. It's by far the most brilliant and disturbing and psychological game ever made, so to be fair and help illustrate further how the entire Silent Hill franchise, not just one or two but all of them, are superior works of horror, in my opinion, than everything else I've touched in the genre.

So, she goes into a room. In the back is a mannequin. Okay. She explores further back into the room. A scream, a thud on the floor. She returns back to the mannequin. Its head is on the floor and there's blood coming from the neck. This is the sort of creative and mindful scare tactics that Silent Hill is widely known for. It doesn't just stop at a random scream. There's a point to the scream. Games like Siren and Dead Space stop at the scream. Silent Hill keeps delivering. It's scares aren't randomly-generated noises with no meaning. What cut the head off the mannequin? Why is it bleeding? Is whatever cut the head off still around somewhere? You don't know. You just have to guess.

First off, it was good reading your comments, thanks for taking the time to reply to a lot of what i've said, makes for an interesting discussion. First thing is, honestly, i don't get scared easily, so its not that Silent Hill's methods didn't really work on me - the thing is, i personally feel that Silent Hill's method is less about scaring you and more about disturbing you with terrifying psychological thoughts, what do you think? I mean, on the other hand, i did say that Resident Evil the remake downright scared the shit out of me, but once i finished the game, the scares are finished too. That's where the power of Silent Hill comes in, that it gets you thinking much further beyond the credits - and any piece of entertainment that does that is powerful in my opinion.

The clip of the mannequin is a brilliant example of Silent Hill 3's scare moments - however one thing you said - as a person who beat the Sirens and loves them - i have to respectfully disagree with and it is where you say that "Games like Siren and Dead Space stop at the scream. Silent Hill keeps delivering. It's scares aren't randomly-generated noises with no meaning." Trust me, man, if you allowed yourself to get into Siren more - as a game and as a story - you will realize that Siren is not random in what it gives at all . In fact, the 'random' scares in Siren are all there for a reason. The only scares that you may think are there for no reason - such as when the Shibito shriek or scream after seeing you - is because that is their reaction to seeing you - its a gameplay element, much in the same way that a guard says "who's that?!" in the Metal Gear Solid games upon seeing you. Dead Space, yes, i agree - much of its scares are random and cheap, but Siren is another story.

Siren doesn't let me guess about anything. It just flat out tells me. The "scares" in Siren are reduced down to how creepy the enemies look, how creepy the location is, how creepy the music is, and nothing more. That scene in Silent Hill doesn't really happen in a creepy location because it's smarter and doesn't have to rely on its own atmosphere to be creepy and frightening. It just naturally is. Siren never threw anything at me like that. It was the same stuff over and over again, none of it scary or interesting, whereas every single Silent Hill game I've played doesn't treat me like a run of the mill horror fan and is constantly shaking things up.

You know, Siren is actually more subtle in its plot than the Silent Hill games? You may think you know everything there is about the plot - hence when you say it doesn't let you guess about anything - until you get further and start compiling the plot points and you realize the occurences in Siren are way out there - a lot bigger than what you imagined - and certainly unlike any horror game ever created. Siren may have been inspired by other horror games "on the surface" - but once you discover everything - you realize how big the play truly is.

As for what you say about the locations of the game - Silent Hill, being the psychological game that warps between the normal state of mind and the darker state of mind - the Hell Descent, for example - allows for that range between a normal home (as in with Alex's place in Homecoming) and a place from the other world (as in the alternate version of Alex's Home). That doesn't work in Siren not because it is less smart - but simply because the plot cannot allow for a normal peaceful little part of town. The whole area around you is messed up - you are less safe than you ever are in Silent Hill - danger is all around you.

When you say, about Siren, "the same stuff over and over again", what are you referring to? Because the locations, when they are revisited, are all for a purpose and really add to the plot - as you see the same event from a completely different perspective. The reason why you feel its repetitive is probably because you haven't been caught up with the story well enough to feel immersed - that is why i tell you to start over and allow yourself to grasp as much of the plot, world, and characters, in order to enjoy Siren the way it is intended. Once you do that, you'll be surprised how much Siren will shake things up for you - not only from a plot perspective, but from a gameplay one too

Again, I would love to know where, at any point in games like Siren or Dead Space, does anything like this. This might be boring to some people. "It's just her reflection in the mirror bleeding, I want gameplay!" But thankfully Silent Hill doesn't treat me like that. It treats me like someone who is bizarrely interested in everything going on, and the weirder and more unexplainable, the better. It's a simple matter of locking you in a room and then proceeding to mess with your brain for a few minutes. You can't do anything. You can't open the door. You don't know why everything in the reflection is bleeding. And then the real Heather starts to bleed. The real walls start to bleed. Are you supposed to be doing something? Is there a key somewhere in the room? If so, where? What the hell are you supposed to be doing?

Like you, i love when a horror game is weird and unexplainable. That is one of the biggest reasons why i truly cherish the Silent Hill games. Would you believe me if i told you that this reason is just as big for me to cherish the Siren games? They are so bizarre and weird, in some ways more than Silent Hill (it can be more complicated with the story by the way). However, if you are going to go in to the game with the negative feelings you have towards it, even if you have any chance of being interested in it, you will kill those chances if you dive in without being more welcoming to the game And you know me - im the kind of gamer who welcomes story even more than gameplay - i am the kind of guy who cheered when i found out the length of the overall cutscenes in Xenosaga III and Metal Gear Solid 4 - the more story, the merrier - that is how i like most of my games. I say this to let you know that when I praise Siren, i'm not simply talking about the gameplay Out of curiousity - what episode did you reach in Siren? Be honest

I love the scare tactics example you brought up about Silent Hill 3- one of my favorite things about the series. Let me just tell you however that just because Silent Hill does something unique in the horror gaming genre, doesn't mean Siren doesn't, and vice versa. They each have unique strengths. I'll leave Siren's for you to discover

Also, do note that Siren is a different kind of horror game than Silent Hill. Silent Hill is definitely more about the psychological aspect of horror, whereas Siren is more about being faced with a real physical threat that has a mind of its own, and a messed up plan of its own. This isn't about zombies wanting your flesh as you might have guessed from one of the scenes early in the game showcasing a Shibito infected a Japanese man, this is much more than that. Im starting to see that you went into Siren comparing it to Silent Hill and that's where it, expectedly, falls short - you see, its not meant to be a Silent Hill-like game, even if it comes from the man who directed the original Silent Hill. Your expectations [/I] do change everything [/I] you see. If i went in expecting The Dark Knight to be the big-screen take on the comics and the animated series, i would have been disappointed, for example.

So now that we're past showing cool scenes on Youtube, let me discuss something else: Silent Hill's ability to make you feel like you're connected to its world. By that, I mean the games consistently have you doing things that tap into your character's psyche, providing deeper looks into their thoughts, feelings, and choices. And sometimes you make the choices. Near the end of 3, you go into a confessional booth. A lady confesses and you must either grant her peace or make her think that "god," whatever that god might be, has decided that, no, whatever you did, you must live with it for eternity. You are faced with this decision. And there's more to it. You don't see the person on the other side, you just hear "her." You have no idea what it is. Could be a human. Could be a monster of some type. Could be a figment of your imagination. It could even be lying, just there to have fun and mess with you. This is how Silent Hill works. It hates you. It's there to screw with your mind and screw with it, it does. So what do you choose? It depends on what you think is on the other side of that booth. If you grant "her" forgiveness, she deeply thanks you. And congrats, you may have just given something forgiveness that doesn't deserve it. Not only that, story-wise, you're religiously symbolized and you do have power within the spirituality of Silent Hill, so whatever decision you make may have weight to it. It's amazing how this one scene, with a couple of lines of dialogue, can be discussed in this manner. There are so many possible implications, as the majority of everything that happens in these games.

On the topic of choices in the game that you make for your characters in the Silent Hill series - to be fair, this is minimal, and is barely done. For instance, in Homecoming you get to make three choices, which will affect the ending you get. And honestly - the Silent Hill characters aren't that deep much. Not even James - we barely learn about James as a character beyond his sin, what we do learn, is so interesting, but its nothing with crazy depths. Alex, too, is not too deep of a character. What makes Heather deep is her being based on another character from the series. Harry wasn't too deep either, and especially Henry - he was the least character with the least depth. Does that make it a flaw of the series? Not really, i still enjoyed the Silent Hill characters overall more than Siren's. But Siren gives you a good number of playable characters - each with their reason in the plot, all with believable circumstances. Siren gives you variety - around at least 8 characters that you learn more about, the more you pay attention to the Siren world. I'm not saying Siren's characters are deeper, im saying they can be just as deep and interesting as Silent Hill's.

Also, when you play through more of Siren, you will realize it mostly hates you too - you'll see, it barely gives its "characters" any breathing space.

I'm sorry, but I have yet to run across anything like this. In anything. Not even film. And if you read that and scoff, please point me in the direction of a movie you have in mind, because I sure as hell haven't seen it.

Im not scoffing when i read this, cause you must remember that im on the same boat with you when it comes to loving Silent Hill. I take the Silent Hill horror over the horror presented to me through any other medium too.

I may sound as if I don't think Siren has any merit as an artistic horror piece. It most certainly does. It's an atmospheric game with cool characters and some chapters, such as the hospital, are very effective. What I'm trying to express is that I don't think horror is effective unless there's more to it. Siren has all the outside filling of a good horror product, but what lies under its skin? No, I haven't beaten it. But I did play 3/4ths of the way through successively. I started it when it came out, dropped it, but then restarted it and played through the majority of the game. And during the entire time, it felt very static as far as creative horror is concerned. The game is utterly fantastic at making you panic and run for your life, but that's not really my thing. I explained that the mirror scene in SH3 makes you panic, but it's not a simple matter of hiding from something. The mirror scene is psychologically terrifying and, believe it or not, character development.

Yeah, see, Siren isn't much of a psychological experience, of course. But it still has its psychological moments, and some in-your-face moments that are truly threatening. The game is truly more about survival and finding out what the hell is going on. Its a stealth (in most parts) horror game where you don't know what the hell is going on. In many ways, that is one thing we love about our Silent Hill games (save for the stealth part, which isnt there much). There is some character development, but its not as psychological as Silent Hill's, yet just as interesting in many ways. In Silent Hill, your protagonist has a big HUGE reason for being where they are, and punished for a big sin. In Siren, you play as these normal people caught up in extraordinary situations, its realistic, fun, and different (not that Silent Hill isn't, it definitely is).

I'm sure. Again, Siren isn't stupid, or simple. It does have a good story. It's not a pointless endeavor. However, I would argue that it fails at getting me, personally, into it to the point that I care about it. I didn't care about any of the characters, and while the story is good, it didn't interest me much. I plan on finishing it soon, possibly after Rule of Rose, but I stopped playing Siren for a reason, and it's simply because I didn't care and the game hadn't scared me one time during my time with it nor did it do anything remotely creative or inventive. If I wrote an analysis of Siren, it would be positive. But I wouldn't have too much to say. If I wrote an analysis of any given Silent Hill game, I'd be maddened at the fact that I wouldn't know where to begin, where to end. I wouldn't be able to pick a focal point of discussion because there are so many great ones to choose from and pick through. That's why I think Silent Hill is ultimately vastly superior and potentially untouchable. Not to mention the music, sound effects, overall sound work, art direction, new, visually disturbing things around every corner which aren't just reduced to the same creatures stalking the halls like in everything else, and the fact that every single one of these things caters to the story being told and more often than not relates in some messed up way to the story, character psychology, or what have you, really drives home the fact that Silent Hill is indeed the epitome of horror.

Hmm..if you did try to immerse yourself into the game and play it with a change in expectations yet you still wouldn't feel care about it then i guess it just wouldn't be your kind of horror game, which is unfortunate as i feel theres a lot you can love in this series that you'll look back to and remember fondly. Try this, sometime, when you don't have another game on your mind much, give Siren another shot from the beginning, and expect nothing from it, and make sure you don't make any comparisons to Silent Hill, go through it - pick up archive items, many are rewarding to get - and once you finish it, if you do, ask yourself - did i enjoy this as a game? When you finish Siren, if you enjoyed it, you will also be maddened by the fact that you would not know where to begin. The final act of Siren is not what one would expect. Silent Hill to me is still the epitome of horror. Silent Hill also has at least 7 entries (excluding the film, and including Shattered Memories), it is an established franchise. Siren is young, but if its going to grow, then i can only expect big things from Silent Hill's good friend

I will look into the rest of your comments about Silent Hill 3 soon, and respond

In the end my friend, you are a winner, because you have a chance to experience Siren (which i wish i could re-experience) and we have another Silent Hill biggie to play soon

Fady K, do you happen to know of any good in-depth plot analysis of Siren? I found this on GameFaqs but for the most part it is describing the facts that occurred in the game rather than analyzing them.

As for myself, though I had a blast playing through Siren Blood Curse last summer, I must admit that I barely remember anything story-related from the game now. On the contrary, this hasn't happened with Silent Hill 2 and 3 even though it's been more than 3 years since I last played any of them. Guess I have to agree more with Brandon on several points about Siren, with the only exception that Siren Blood Curse did scare me while I was playing. However, after the closing credits I don't think I ever found myself thinking about the game's deeper meanings in the same way I used to do with Team Silent's SH games.

Actually, just to make myself clear, i'm not arguing that Siren's story has more staying power than Silent Hills. Silent Hill definitely does, so there is no disagreement to begin with. Im just saying that Siren is almost just as good (and better than some of the Silent Hills) for a variety of reasons. I recall reading a plot analysis that actually did make Siren: Blood Curse a far more interesting experience plot-wise, i will try to find the link for you, i believe Kuran would have it.

 

[Fady K]

In my experience with horror, it's either going for straight-up fear, or going for depth. I haven't seen much that executes both as well.

I'm hoping that Shutter Island will do the trick for us.

 

[Teknoman]

One thing that ticked me off in Homecoming was that every loading screen had advice...like a normal action game. Really killed the atmosphere.

Also listen to White Noiz from SH2 while reading Brandon's analysis of SH3 scenes for maximum effect.

 

[Baloonatic]

I personally felt Blood Curse was a retail release in its contents (my copy was actually the Asian English retail release), what did you mean by having the same stage advancement as the first two?

By the way, your avatar, it's from that game Ku-on, right? Can you give me some impressions? Seems a bit like Fatal Frame and i'm a big fan of that series.

I have the PAL boxed version of Blood Curse, so I understand what you mean. I just didn't feel like it was as "big" as the original. Obviously it being shorter overall contributes to that, but also there being only 50 archive items (I'm not including weapons) was disappointing to me. By stage advancement, I was referring to the timeline-like screen where you select levels and cutscenes. The way you could go back to old levels and do secondary objectives to unlock more of the story was great.

Kuon is a difficult game for me to recommend. I really love it, but it does have quite a few flaws that a lot of other people might not be able to get over. I'll get to those after explaining the basic premise of the game.

You have two characters to choose from at the start of the game, referred to as the Yin and Yang phases. You unlock a third (the Kuon phase) after finishing the first two. The way the story is told is probably most comparable to Resident Evil 2. The Yin and Yang phases are roughly the same story told from two different character's perspective. Maybe it's up to interpretation, but I believe they don't actually happen side by side. It's more like you either think of Yin as canon, or Yang as canon. It doesn't really matter either way though, the end result is the same. The Kuon phase is the climax of the story.

One of the things I love about this game is how slow paced it is. I adore the atmosphere. You can run if you want, but you are encouraged not to. I never do. I like taking my time. Running quickens your character's heart rate and weakens them. There are also certain areas of concentrated evil in the game called tempests. If you encounter one of these while running you will instantly enter a state of vertigo and be unable to use magic, leaving you very open to attack. You can meditate at any time to lower your heart rate and there are also healing items available for in the middle of a fight.

Now, the combat. I imagine this will be most people's main problem with the game. It is very slow and clunky. Moreso for the Yin and Yang phases than in the Kuon phase, but there is reason for this. You aren't playing as combat specialists in Yin and Yang. The square and triangle buttons are used for melee attacks, unless you have a magic card assigned to one (or both) of them. Whichever button isn't used for a card will be used for melee. If you are switching between melee and cards in the middle of a battle, prepare for a delay as your character will spend around 2 seconds physically puttting one away to use the other. This can be troublesome in a tight spot. Magic cards are limited and have varying effects. You can use some for throwing elemental projectiles at your enemy, some for summoning demons to fight for you and some to weaken or restrict your enemy.

You advance in a similar way to a lot of survival horror game. You collect items, solve puzzles and complete objectives. There are books and notes scattered about to give you an insight into what's happening and who is really responsible. I think the story is really interesting, but others might not agree. I'm not going to go into it because I really enjoyed how everything unfolded, so I wouldn't want to ruin it for someone else.

I don't really know what else to say, if you have any other questions then ask. I probably haven't told you much that you didn't know but I'm not very good at explaining. Again, it's a difficult game to recommend. I don't think the critics liked it and it seems like most people haven't even heard of it. I don't know if I can even pinpoint why I like it so much, but it's probably the slow pacing and environments. I would so love another Japanese horror game with a similar setting but it seems unlikely. Maybe more people on here might be interested if I told them that From Software developed it, but maybe not. Anyway, I'm surprised to even meet anyone who has heard of the game. If you do decide to pick it up, let me know.

 

[RagnarokX]

You know what, I'm not done. Here we go. Still just on Silent Hill 3.

Here I am, back in Alchemilla. Same ol' hospital. Again. This is what, the third time I've been here? You'd think Team Silent wouldn't succumb to the same location this many times. But this time was different. This time, the hospital was playing host to not just killer nurses and doctors and rusty halls.

Silent Hill 2 and 3 feature Brookhaven Hospital, not Alchemilla. Silent Hill 2 Brookhaven Hospital had Maria scaring the crap out of you in the cramped dark rooms, Pyramid Head chasing you on the roof and the basement, and a creepy radio contest in the elevator.

Unlike Silent Hill 2, most of the locations you visit in Silent Hill 3 felt very forced to me. Heather decides to take the subway after the mall incident, and the only thing keeping her from going back outside and hailing a cab is that she doesn't want to. When you finally get to Silent Hill, Douglas is like "I'll check out a house, you check the hospital." It was a good game, it just didn't flow as well as the previous ones to me.

 

[brandonh83]

Silent Hill 2 and 3 feature Brookhaven Hospital, not Alchemilla. Silent Hill 2 Brookhaven Hospital had Maria scaring the crap out of you in the cramped dark rooms, Pyramid Head chasing you on the roof and the basement, and a creepy radio contest in the elevator.

Yeah, you're right, I was more caught up in my thoughts, but yes it was Brookhaven in both games.

 

[goldsoundz]

One thing that ticked me off in Homecoming was that every loading screen had advice...like a normal action game. Really killed the atmosphere.

Also listen to White Noiz from SH2 while reading Brandon's analysis of SH3 scenes for maximum effect.

White Noiz rules. Every time I begin SH2 I hang out in the bathroom until the song ends. I also do that because it's the only place I feel safe at.

 

[brandonh83]

One thing that ticked me off in Homecoming was that every loading screen had advice...like a normal action game. Really killed the atmosphere.

Also listen to White Noiz from SH2 while reading Brandon's analysis of SH3 scenes for maximum effect.

Yeah I'm a huge Homecoming supporter and even I hated the STRING TOGETHER UPPERCUT AND BICYCLE KICK FOR MAXIMUM DAMAGE TO THE NEEDLER screens.

White Noiz is awesome. But my favorite "scary" track in the entire franchise is Silent Heaven. I loop it while writing. So awesome.

 

[Y2Kev]

okay i bought shh again for some reason

who wants to play with me

 

[Zoc]

I liked Siren better than Silent Hill precisely because it wasn't psychological.

Horror is only effective because fear is the simplest and most powerful emotion there is. The more directly a game can provoke that emotion, the better it is. The youtube videos that were linked - the mannequin with its head cut off, the room with the mirror and the blood, and the rest - are full of clunky, overdrawn symbols and metaphors. You said those added a depth of meaning, but to me, they're just distractions. Horror is good when it has the clarity and directness of a dream - you're hiding from something, but it's getting closer. You want to run, but you can't. Siren and the Resident Evil games had that clarity, which I thought Silent Hill lacked.

 

[KAOz]

Unlike Silent Hill 2, most of the locations you visit in Silent Hill 3 felt very forced to me. Heather decides to take the subway after the mall incident, and the only thing keeping her from going back outside and hailing a cab is that she doesn't want to. When you finally get to Silent Hill, Douglas is like "I'll check out a house, you check the hospital." It was a good game, it just didn't flow as well as the previous ones to me.

Had to stop myself from tag-quoting you acctually.

But that it a very fair, and good point. Some of the locales in Silent Hill 3 felt so utterly disjointed. Like going from the subway to sewer, to construction building, to home. Then all of a sudden and for no reason, to Brookhaven, to Lakeside only to end up in a hidden underground church.

I think they should've skipped Brookhaven for Silent Hill 3, since it's a sequel to the original it would've made so much more sense to go back to Alchemilla really. Specially with the bits of revelations coming up.

But otherwise, Silent Hill 3 is a great game.

 

[Y2Kev]

That's why I'm saying heather is dumb. I think her motivation for doing what she does is weak. Not overall-- I mean, I would want to get out too, I guess. But I will never ever buy that people want to split up from other people when shit happens.

 

[Fady K]

okay i bought shh again for some reason

who wants to play with me

Co-op. Let's do this.

 

[Teknoman]

okay i bought shh again for some reason

who wants to play with me

Actually I was planning on restarting it and trying to get through before Shattered Memories hits.

I need to rebuy SH2 and 3 as well...

 

[Melchiah]

What movie is that?

 

[Y2Kev]

This game has really great music, but man judge holloway is fugly :lol

 

[PetriP-TNT]

It's no secret that I hold the works of Team Silent high on my "best gameseries ever" chart. Easily top 5 material, I could mention 100 moments in SH series that are stuck with me forever, but its hard to name another series with 25 of those. Amazing.

 

[Teknoman]

About Silent Hill 2 Restless Memories:

Its backwards compatible on the 360 right? Would that be the best way to replay SH2, or should I search for the PC or PS2 versions?

 

[Fady K]

This game has really great music, but man judge holloway is fugly :lol

Not only does Homecoming's OST nearly tie with part 2's music, but its one of the best game OSTs ever. Check out this amazing track for instance (which you only hear a fragment of in the game unfortunately):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kND1GuEC1dM

 

[Fady K]

About Silent Hill 2 Restless Memories:

Its backwards compatible on the 360 right? Would that be the best way to replay SH2, or should I search for the PC or PS2 versions?

I think the PS2 version is the same as the 360 version. If you buy the greatest hits version of the PS2, that is, you'll find the Restless Memories additions.

Edit: Wait, i just looked it up - if you have the choice, go with the PS2 version. Apparently the Xbox version has texture issues, especially on the BC.

 

[Teknoman]

I think the PS2 version is the same as the 360 version. If you buy the greatest hits version of the PS2, that is, you'll find the Restless Memories additions.

Edit: Wait, i just looked it up - if you have the choice, go with the PS2 version. Apparently the Xbox version has texture issues, especially on the BC.

Gotcha, thanks. PS2 version it is.

 

[brandonh83]

Horror is only effective because fear is the simplest and most powerful emotion there is. The more directly a game can provoke that emotion, the better it is. The youtube videos that were linked - the mannequin with its head cut off, the room with the mirror and the blood, and the rest - are full of clunky, overdrawn symbols and metaphors. You said those added a depth of meaning, but to me, they're just distractions. Horror is good when it has the clarity and directness of a dream - you're hiding from something, but it's getting closer. You want to run, but you can't. Siren and the Resident Evil games had that clarity, which I thought Silent Hill lacked.

I mean sure, I disagree with this paragraph more than abortion, but when you say that the symbols and metaphors are overdrawn and distractions, wow. That's where it crosses the line for me. You're basically saying that depth is bad. That's what it translates to in my mind. You're saying that horror shouldn't have more to it than shitty jump scares. Hell, if you ask me, jump scares isn't horror. They're just cheap scare tactics. Any jackass with a camera and sound editing equipment can shoot an asshole in a mask jumping out from behind a tree with a loud BANG-CRASH on the soundtrack and it would scare a theater full of high schoolers. But that doesn't mean any thought went into it. This is why we get so many crappy horror movies-- people respond well to the worst shit ever made. Like The Grudge remake. Holy fuck it made like ten billion dollars in the American box office and it's a shitstain on celluloid.

No wonder why the horror genre is frequently frowned upon. In film, studios pretty much tell directors to shoot high school targeted mindless slashers. The new Exorcist prequel that came out was actually shot twice by two different directors. Why? The first time, Paul Schrader, a favored film director shot the Exorcist prequel and it was full of atmosphere and abstract horror. But a test screening went bad because people complained that it wasn't "scary" enough. By that I suppose they really mean "I didn't jump any." Well honky tonk, maybe some of us desire the kind of horror that gets under your skin and lets you think about it long after its over, instead of mindless jump scare after jump scare. Then Renny Harlin, one of the biggest wankers in Hollywood was put onto the project because the studio felt like he could cater better to the high school Friday night crowd who don't give two fucks about cinema, they're just there to text bitches and laugh at things throughout the movie. That's like John Carpenter's Halloween receiving a bad test screening and then hiring Uwe Boll to take over. He then shot his version, which was critically panned and ripped to shreds. And then Schrader's version of the film is finally released, and while it's not the most amazing thing ever, Ebert praised it and gave it four stars and it was indeed much better than Harlin's douchebaggery on film.

I'm just saying, horror shouldn't ever be treated "simply" because what drives horror is the mind and the mind is not simple. Horror isn't just something chasing you or you hiding from something. To me nothing can be frightening until I'm immersed and legitimately freaked the fuck out, and this has never happened to me in a game series outside Silent Hill. What I'm trying to say is, your opinion is your opinion, and I respect that, but if everything was handled that way, we'd have nothing but shit.

 

[Y2Kev]

Horror used to be a big deal. Now it's full of bombas.

I'm in the cemetary already. It's interesting playing it again knowing what the plot is. You can see all the foreshadowing.

 

[Lime]

Some really interesting and in-depth discussion by brandonh83 and Fady K. It's great to read, so many compliments to you two.

But I can't see how anyone could possibly disagree with brandonh83: He's right on all accounts. The best (and I think most respected) horror is not the direct, in-your face scares, but the atmospheric, abstract and object-less anxiety.

 

[Teknoman]

Seriously...jump scares arent based on actual fear. Thats just being surprised. Fear is something that actually builds up over time, making you feel anxious and hesitant to proceed any further down that hallway, street, or through whatever door you may be standing in front of.

It sticks with you even after you've stopped playing the game or watching the movie. Not that I have anything against jump scares when done right (Oven Man), its just that when a game or movie pairs the soundtrack and environment together to create that perfect atmosphere, it's hard to top it. Thats why SH2 and 3 will always remain as top recommendations for people who want to experience true survival horror.

Of course I still need to play Siren: Blood Curse.

EDIT: WTF. Seriously off-topic, but I was thinking about Siren Blood curse, with White noiz playing in the background...and my PS3 just came on by itself. Seriously. Both my controllers were/are off, and unless Firmware 3.0 turns something that auto turns on your PS3, im at a loss.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Some really interesting and in-depth discussion by brandonh83 and Fady K. It's great to read, so many compliments to you two.

But I can't see how anyone could possibly disagree with brandonh83: He's right on all accounts. The best (and I think most respected) horror is not the direct, in-your face scares, but the atmospheric, abstract and object-less anxiety.

I think the best thing should be a combination of both, that's why Clock Tower it's one of my favorite horror games.

 

[Erebus]

Not only does Homecoming's OST nearly tie with part 2's music, but its one of the best game OSTs ever. Check out this amazing track for instance (which you only hear a fragment of in the game unfortunately):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kND1GuEC1dM

Amazing indeed! Even people who didn't like SHH, they have to concede that Akira Yamaoka did a great job on the soundtrack at least.

Some of my favorites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BDgTOYigwY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx2LsPrD_y4

 

[Fady K]

Some really interesting and in-depth discussion by brandonh83 and Fady K. It's great to read, so many compliments to you two.

But I can't see how anyone could possibly disagree with brandonh83: He's right on all accounts. The best (and I think most respected) horror is not the direct, in-your face scares, but the atmospheric, abstract and object-less anxiety.

Thanks for the kind words, but note that i never said that Siren's horror is the best. I stated mutliple times that Silent Hill's psychological horror is best. Thats why i prefer films like Jacob's ladder, The Ring, etc. My discussion is directed at one point really - that Siren is in many ways as worthy a horror game as the Silent Hill gems, and they are different beasts, and shouldn't be compared in the types of horror that they depict.

 

[How About No]

It was also carrying a new patient: Stanley Coleman. I'm just minding my own business, looking for keys and numeric codes and what have you, and here's this note written to me by this Stanley Coleman character. What's so scary about a note? Well, how about the fact that there's multiple notes, seemingly placed not long before you find them. It implies that there's a psychopath wandering the halls of Alchemilla with you. And if that wasn't enough, he seems to be in love with you. Obsessed. Hellbent on you loving him back. You keep going about the hospital, wondering when or even if this maniac is going to leap around a corner and slit your throat and then engage in necrophilia. Thankfully Silent Hill isn't that in-your-face, but that's what makes it great. It sets up the very idea that you're in a hospital with a maniac who is following your every move while leaving love letters everywhere along with the same doll beside it every time. And at the end of his charade, you get a final note (this time with the doll broken into pieces) and it implies that Stanley has given up trying to get you to love him, and the broken doll may signify that he's potentially turned violent and the rest of the time you're in the hospital is miserable, not just because of how dark and twisted it already is,

That's not where it ends, either.

Spoiler

In the Nightmare Hospital, the psycho on the phone says that he's been taken underground and called "Number Seven" now. In the morgue floor, when you approach stretcher 7, you can hear the EXTREMELY faint whisper that sounds something like "H-h-he-heatherr...."

 

[Y2Kev]

Thanks for the kind words, but note that i never said that Siren's horror is the best. I stated mutliple times that Silent Hill's psychological horror is best. Thats why i prefer films like Jacob's ladder, The Ring, etc. My discussion is directed at one point really - that Siren is in many ways as worthy a horror game as the Silent Hill gems, and they are different beasts, and shouldn't be compared in the types of horror that they depict.

But Siren has both. I mean, it has boo scares in the daylight, and it also has creepy lightning flashes and girl wandering around the hospital with no protection.

Sh2 and 3 in particular have very few boo scares. SH1 has the spring loaded cat. and SHH is loaded with it because it's made by white people

 

[Fady K]

But Siren has both. I mean, it has boo scares in the daylight, and it also has creepy lightning flashes and girl wandering around the hospital with no protection.

Sh2 and 3 in particular have very few boo scares. SH1 has the spring loaded cat. and SHH is loaded with it because it's made by white people

Yeah Siren does have both, i just stated that Silent Hill pushes it further on the psychological side. Btw the hospital stuff with the girl was pretty freaky now that you reminded me of it.

 

[Zoc]

snip

I never said Silent Hill never should have been made, just that I didn't like it. I can't stand psychological horror, and I don't have to like it or watch it. Psychological horror amounts to gratuitous mental suffering inflicted on an audience, in my opinion.

Granted, symbolism and metaphor can add depth to any kind of art, horror not excluded. But you can't just say that "depth" is something good in itself. Depth means that the work in question is no longer a simple entertainment, but actually has something to say about things. Just saying something isn't enough, though. What, exactly, is it saying? Is it something insightful about the nature of humanity, or is it simply someone's sick fantasy?

I, for one, didn't find that Silent Hill 2 was a very enlightening experience. Maybe you found something in it I couldn't see. Siren, on the other hand, knew its limits as a work of art, and excelled within them.

 

[Jostifer]

New SCEJ games will be shown at TGS. Cross everything for Siren 2.

http://goonlinegames.net/2009/09/05/scej-boss-there-will-be-new-games-at-tgs/

 

[fuzzyreactor]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Siren is no good. The Silent Hill games were never great, you know, games, but they at least had something resembling satisfying controls and combat. Siren: Blood Whatever does not.

lol, Siren blood curse is better than any silent hill since 3

 

[Fady K]

Wow, its cool to see that there are Siren lovers here

Amazing indeed! Even people who didn't like SSH, they have to concede that Akira Yamaoka did a great job on the soundtrack at least.

Some of my favorites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BDgTOYigwY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx2LsPrD_y4

You have good taste in music DarkUSS I love both the tracks you linked, Elle's theme is one of the best silent hill vocal songs. And Witchcraft is one of the best tracks in Homecoming. Some are haunting yet original, like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRvcsoTxExU

And this is an amazing vocal song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p64INR03LE

 

[ArjanN]

Had to stop myself from tag-quoting you acctually.

But that it a very fair, and good point. Some of the locales in Silent Hill 3 felt so utterly disjointed. Like going from the subway to sewer, to construction building, to home. Then all of a sudden and for no reason, to Brookhaven, to Lakeside only to end up in a hidden underground church.

I think they should've skipped Brookhaven for Silent Hill 3, since it's a sequel to the original it would've made so much more sense to go back to Alchemilla really. Specially with the bits of revelations coming up.

But otherwise, Silent Hill 3 is a great game.

Silent Hill 3 is where the series started to become a little stale for me.
For one thing I think it could have used a little less combat, I mean right off the bat you're machinegunning down giant monsters...
Also, I felt using a hospital again was a lot like having pyramid head in SH Homecoming; i.e. fanservice.

 

[Teknoman]

Silent Hill 3 is where the series started to become a little stale for me.
For one thing I think it could have used a little less combat, I mean right off the bat you're machinegunning down giant monsters...
Also, I felt using a hospital again was a lot like having pyramid head in SH Homecoming; i.e. fanservice.

I dunno if it could be called fan service since SH3 was a direct continuation from SH1. SH2 was its own story.

Though Shattered Memories seems like it might be nicely done, focusing on true survival horror again.

 

[theinfinityissue]

brandohn, you may or may not be aware that in that screenshot of Heather pointing the gun at the wall of meat, if you return to that spot after the wall of meat vanishes (it's the exit) you can sometimes lodge Heather up against the fence to her left, and with a fairly obscure and mostly luck based thrust of trying to force the camera up then pitch all the way down, you can see a really freaky thing down there that's just on the edge of seeing. love that stuff. the easter eggs in the Silent Hill games are just the best; invisible but killable "prisoner" in the prison of SH 2 anyone?

I'm a Silent Hill fanatic, I'm going to build a life size replica of the town after I win a 250 mil jackpot, and I have pretty definite views on Team Silent. Honestly, I'm ok with them never making another SH game again. I think that they did the perfect job, and I wouldn't change a thing about it. They laid a perfect framework for others to come and tell stories in the town, and honestly I hope people continue to do so forever. Even if SH:H and SH0 weren't stellar entries in the series, they were very solid, and told the stories that their creators wanted to tell. I can't eloquently express using words my frothing demand for Shattered Memories; if I tried I'd quickly dissolve into a series of grunts, strangled screams and wild hand gestures. Thus far, the only real requirement I have for someone other than Team Silent to come in and make a SH game is that they care about it half as much as I do and that Akira Yamaoka does the music, and if he ever says that he really has no music left to make in that vein then I could respectfully drop that requirement as well. I hope for Silent Hill beyond Shattered Memories, and I'll always show up day one until the day someone pisses all over my dreams and releases one that doesn't tell a story.

I'm hoping for Silent Hill 6 (well, 7 if SM counts as 6) they'll pick up my Silent Hill story which I'll probably be writing for the rest of my 20's.

 

[brandonh83]

brandohn, you may or may not be aware that in that screenshot of Heather pointing the gun at the wall of meat, if you return to that spot after the wall of meat vanishes (it's the exit) you can sometimes lodge Heather up against the fence to her left, and with a fairly obscure and mostly luck based thrust of trying to force the camera up then pitch all the way down, you can see a really freaky thing down there that's just on the edge of seeing.

Yeah I'll definitely have to try that out sometime.

 

[abstract alien]

My fav song has to be Letter from the Lost Days. I love Silent Hill 3 for so many reasons, as it is easily the best in the series for me from both a gameplay and "experience" standpoint. This is just one of the many reasons its still remembered by me, when I usually forget about everything that happens in most games.

Check it out.