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[ArjanN]

I always figured even playing on a bad team is a positive part of the experience. Multiplayer games are hugely emergent experiences. How you choose to adapt to what other people do is a life lesson that translates pretty well to a team based multiplayer game.

Pretty much. I saw this in Counter-Strike (and in actual sports/life) all the time when people who were pretty good at the actual game completely fly off the handle at teammates they perceive to be weaker players, and then completely tank their chances when being supportive very likely still could have won them the game.

"This is a competition and in a competition victory is the fun."

Not really, the fun actually is in improving, and winning is just a consequence of that.

Making your goal winning only is one of the most surefire ways to set yourself up for having a bad time.

 

[Mass Effect]

This is PRECISELY why I dislike playing MOBAs. You spend, what, 30 min to an hour+ playing in a match only to get stomped towards the end (when you're losing obviously). In the last 5 or so minutes, it usually ends with you not being able to do much, your team mates maybe stop playing in protest and it is general not fun for anyone on your team anymore (once again, this is when you're losing). And then there's those matches you're getting destroyed from the beginning. Absolutely no fun. And yeah, this happens in other games, but at least in a game like Overwatch or Gears of War the matches end relatively quickly so you can just move on, but in a MOBA you're stuck there for god knows how long.

Of course, I'm never amazing at MOBAs (well, except for Super Monday Night Combat. The only MOBA I will ever love), though I wasn't terrible most of the time either, so I can understand the frustration from both sides. It's just so frustrating when A.) you have a team that has no idea what they're doing, and on the opposite side of the coin B.) you're trying to learn a character, or the game in general (can't play against bots forever) and you're getting bitched at for not being "pro." And then you have a combination of both where you're getting chewed out by some dude who's playing poorly, fucking about around the map and can't hold a lane to save their life. And then many times, these people protest in anger by just going AFK, usually accompanied with some message in chat letting others know he's "done." And on top of that, if you have someone who quits or goes AFK, it makes your life that more difficult in a match.

This is basically just a long-winded, disjointed post to say that I've realized how much I just don't like MOBAs. I've basically tried them all at this point and it's really no different no matter which one I try. There is nothing fun about investing an hour of your gaming time (that's supposed to be fun) into a match, often times where you have a chance to win, too, only to lose it all and get stomped in the last 5-10 minutes of a game.

Ah, I so needed this thread to bitch about this topic. Fuck MOBAs and their toxic communities. Obviously it's not everyone, but I haven't met such angry, obnoxious people on power trips since playing Call of Duty online.

/rant

 

[freethoughtbubble]

Winning is important to me, but self-improvement is even more important. My competitive games of choice, Splatoon and Street Fighter, have taught me to accept my losses and to learn from them.

Specifically regarding team-based games, Splatoon has taught me to stop blaming my teammates for my losses. Random matchmaking means that if I am consistently on the losing team, I'm doing something wrong. So I reflect, make the necessary adjustments and win.

I deeply enjoy that entire process, so no, I can't really relate anymore, OP.

Spoiler

I also work a full-time professional job and have lots of adult obligations.

More than once in a team game, I have witnessed a good player rally their team and turn the tide. So far that effect is particularly prevalent in Overwatch. I've seen a single good counterpick at the right moment in a match turn a group that was being steamrolled into a cohesive force that stops the other team cold.

That doesn't happen when a player who could save the game is busy looking down on their teammates and just raging that everybody else isn't carrying them to earn a win point on their personal record.

Exactly. We've all been there, but the important part is to realize when you're being a baby and cut that shit out. Can't win if you're bitching and moaning (especially on mic).

 

[Interfectum]

Is it sometimes frustrating when people won't play the objectives? Yes. Does it spoil my fun? No. Does it make me want to harass people online or fight them? Seek therapy.

This is where I'm at. If I know I'm in a game where the people are goofing off or not doing what they are supposed to, I'll practice a hero I rarely play or goof off too.

 

[clockworkinyou]

I agree. I want the days of old COD where I could go 27-1 on Hurtgen with my Springfield and laugh at the Axis team. Not have to rely on this dumb Mei who keeps walling off dumb, useless points on the map.

I don't see Overwatch staying in my rotation, especially with Ranked not coming out until July at the earliest. I'll be happier when things start to trend back to less team required focus.

 

[espher]

I am hyper-competitive and tend to place at an above average level (but not elite) in any game I play. It's not a good combination.

I'm not good enough consistently enough to hang with the people who would play at a level I want, and I don't have the patience for people repeatedly making mistakes and not learning from them, which hurts my ability to play with pubbies or with a clan/guild/outfit with a large percentage of members who just don't "care" enough. It's a big reason I hated randomized instanced PvP in MMOs for a long time and refused to queue in them solo (I would play with at least ONE friend, so we could coordinate heals/peels).

It's one of the reasons I have gone back and forth over and over on buying Overwatch, heh.

I now pretty much play games where I can do stupid gimmick builds and/or can still have some sense of progression (either from a personal stats improvement perspective or a character progression perspective) even in defeat. In Planetside 2, for instance, if our faction is getting crushed or the people in my outfit that are online aren't interested in doing any coordinated play, I can go do stupid things like unlocking medals for the enemy factions' anti-infantry mines by running around in stealth and trying to blow them up as they get placed, or being world #2/faction #1 for unlocking the top tier kill medal for a worthless gun nobody uses and making a music video about it. That sort of stupid thing helps mitigate my rage/frustration by giving me something else to do that can be fun -- and challenging.

 

[Owensboro]

In response to the guy writing the article: You sound like the kind of person that wanders into a beer league sport or a random pickup game at the gym and screams at people for missing a single layup or dropping a popup. If you're that invested in winning then you need to take the initiative, stop joining random pickup games, and take the time to search out for a real "league" full of other people like you. That's on you, not the game. Join the right forum, send messages to other players you think are good and ask to group up, look for clan tags and check out their websites, etc.. There are a hundred different ways to do that! If you don't want to take the time to find good teammates then you probably just need to find another game. The next "lone-wolf" shooter is probably coming out soon and it's right up your alley.

 

[Matrix XII]

I guess I'm a bit fortunate with Overwatch because I play 95% with a full group of friends from my WoW guild.

I don't really get to see the horrors of randos as much as others do. I haven't noticed really the terrible players either. Maybe that's part of playing this on PC? Not sure, but the teams we play against are tough and well coordinated too.

But honestly, there's not thaaat much teamwork that goes into place. I mean, it's fun playing a team based game.

A game like CoD just doesn't live up to this kind of teamwork and fun.

 

[J_Viper]

The first thing I did when I launched Overwatch was mute all voice chat, and I'm still having a great time with it.

The teamwork aspect of it really isn't that complicated.

 

[Ducktail]

Is it sometimes frustrating when people won't play the objectives? Yes. Does it spoil my fun? No. Does it make me want to harass people online or fight them? Seek therapy.

Pretty much how I feel. No way I'm getting mad about a game, not to the point of wanting to harass people or punch them. I do go to therapy, though.

I'm having fun even with the potato heads- at least I get lot's of gold medals when my team sucks bad.

 

[robertlebrone]

I'm really enjoying this game even though most of my time playing it had been solo. I don't mind losing, at all. But when we lose because people are dead set on playing classes that do not work in certain game modes and will not switch it really pisses me off.

This is a team game. You don't have to be God's gift to this game, but I would hope you would at least play it as a team. As opposed to 3 damn Hanzo sitting back while the other team caps our point.

 

[Kinsei]

I don't care about winning at all so long as I don;t end up being the worst person in the match. That being said I don;t play many multiplayer based games because of stuff like this

If I’m tailing my teammate, ducking projectiles to heal him back to 100%, and he continues to aimlessly wander into enemy fire, I have a hard time containing my suite of expletives. I play single-player campaigns for the journey — multiplayer is about results and I come from the Herm Edwards School of Hard Knocks.

It's the reason I haven;t tried Overwatch yet (not even the open beta.) There are better things I could be doing with my time instead of being yelled at by some asshole over video games.

 

[Azoor]

Why Mercy?

Why not? She is awesome.

 

[Suzushiiro]

Honestly, I think this is kind of the reason why team-based multiplayer games tend to be more popular than 1v1-based games like Starcraft and fighting games. Lose a 1v1 game and you have nobody to blame but yourself, lose a 5v5 game and you can shift at least part of the blame to your team. Overwatch even does its best to hide how bad you may or may not be doing from everyone else, unlike a MOBA where I can it tab and see how much that scrub on my side has fed the other team.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Not really, the fun actually is in improving, and winning is just a consequence of that.

Naaaaaaaa, that's backwards as fuck.

The fun is in performing well on a moment to moment basis. It's not in 'improving', and there's certainly more fun inherent to winning than 'improving'. It's like, I love doubles matches in fighters where I lose but learn something new about my character - but losing is still the shittiest part of that whole ordeal, and implementing what I've learned in the future is only 'fun' insofar that it lets me expand my skillset and win more.

 

[borghe]

The first thing I did when I launched Overwatch was mute all voice chat, and I'm still having a great time with it.

The teamwork aspect of it really isn't that complicated.

I agree. In pub games voice chat is not required at all. It helps, but nothing is so complicated as to warrant people getting pissed.

In competitive matches.. the team without voice chat will lose. period.

 

[Psamtik. Death's Demise]

A bad team provides a great opportunity to get four (or five!) gold medals, so it's not all doom and gloom.

 

[Tyraniboah]

The degree of teamwork required for Overwatch really, really, really is not that high.

I mean, teamwork helps in (almost) any game where teams exist, but frankly anyone who tells you they aren't having fun in Overwatch because they keep getting "bad teammates" probably needs to dial back their narcissism a bit. This isn't Rocket League or even DOTA. That guy picking Reaper instead of Bastion did not render the game unplayable for you and waste an hour of your life.

Pretty much where I'm at. I play alone and when I can. I don't have time to coordinate. I'm pretty good at gauging the needs of the team and objective and adjusting accordingly, so I don't feel as though I'm losing often because of being on a bad team. It helps that the game isn't friendly to COD types (camp, snipe, and go for the K/D ratio) and that the hero screen tells you what your team lacks. I don't interact much but I feel like I contribute in a meaningful way no matter how I play. I don't think that many people are losing because of bad teammates.

Overwatch does a really, really good job of giving everyone an opportunity to contribute.

 

[freethoughtbubble]

Naaaaaaaa, that's backwards as fuck.

The fun is in performing well on a moment to moment basis. It's not in 'improving', and there's certainly more fun inherent to winning than 'improving'. It's like, I love doubles matches in fighters where I lose but learn something new about my character - but losing is still the shittiest part of that whole ordeal, and implementing what I've learned in the future is only 'fun' insofar that it lets me play better and win more.

Think you're going to have to agree to disagree on that one. People are motivated by different things.

For what it's worth, I'd be willing to bet that the people that enjoy the process of improving and not just winning win more than those that just like winning.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Think you're going to have to agree to disagree on that one. People are motivated by different things.

For what it's worth, I'd be willing to bet that the people that enjoy the process of improving and not just winning win more than those that just like winning.

Those aren't mutually exclusive crowds, I'd say. I'd be willing to bet that the people who tend to enjoy winning are also the people who tend to enjoy improving the most, for that exact reason.

 

[Bastos]

One of the reasons that keeps me from buying Overwatch is that I don't have patience for bad players anymore. I have fun when I win, if winning doesn't matter to you then I won't play with you.

I have friends with the same objectives when they play, but there are not enough friends with Overwatch.

 

[The Lamonster]

Overwatch is one of those games where losing doesn't hurt very much. It's fun as hell either way.

 

[pur]

Haven't picked up Overwatch yet, but am planning on doing so in the next couple weeks. I have a couple thousand hours in Leage (mostly solo ranked) and have found that it's a mixed bag but I have a good time regardless. The only communication I generally need is accomplished through the radial ping system.

Does Overwatch have a similar mechanic?

 

[qcf x2]

Not really, the fun actually is in improving, and winning is just a consequence of that.

Making your goal winning only is one of the most surefire ways to set yourself up for having a bad time.

Exactly, what an utterly shit attitude to have. The thrill is in the competition itself. If Kobe (who he laughably compared himself to) only cared about winning he'd take a minimum contract and be a bench player for the Warriors to collect more rings, but that's not all there is to it. Also, this dude is admitting to frequently raging in videogames like they're not ...videogames. Time to pick a new hobby, preferably something where he can maintain some semblance of perspective.

Also, it was 7 seconds or less for the Suns, not 10 seconds or less...

 

[Ryde3]

I think Overwatch makes solo play viable by letting you all see who's choosing what character, and giving you excellent quick team call outs to map to keys, and an excellent chat box.

I do understand though, I usually only get on if my other buddies can get on, luckily our schedules cooperate and we all can get going pretty quickly - but man do I lose track of time! I've been in bed late every single night since it's release! *sigh*

 

[JimJamJones]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like a ton of people have jumped on the Overwatch-bashing bandwagon in the last week.

 

[Version 3.0]

Why buy a team-based game if you don't want to be a team-player?

Exactly. That's why I didn't buy it. I was tempted because it looks good, but I knew I'd never be able to coordinate with a team. So I passed.

Anyone who bought it knowing the same thing should've realized what they were getting into: playing with random people and losing to coordinated teams.

 

[Easy_D]

Being on the losing team is more fun because somehow, your teammates just get desperate for a win and start pulling their shit together and a last ditch attempt at capping a point actually succeeds and then we proceed to stomp the other team for the remaining rounds. It's beautiful.

Wait that's basically being on the winning team.

 

[randomengine]

I would be happy if every map ended in a 99/99 split or I lost in the last 5 seconds of a payload map. Winning isn't everything, but good competition is.

What I am not happy with are blow-out victories, spawn camping, and uneven teams.

 

[Interfectum]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like a ton of people have jumped on the Overwatch-bashing bandwagon in the last week.

People concerned it's getting a "free pass" are starting to get louder and louder.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Naaaaaaaa, that's backwards as fuck.

The fun is in performing well on a moment to moment basis. It's not in 'improving', and there's certainly more fun inherent to winning than 'improving'. It's like, I love doubles matches in fighters where I lose but learn something new about my character - but losing is still the shittiest part of that whole ordeal, and implementing what I've learned in the future is only 'fun' insofar that it lets me expand my skillset and win more.

That sounds like you just defined improvement as being enjoyable.

I agree with the view that truly playing to win paradoxically means not caring, in the abstract sense, about losing. No matter how much you want to win, being obsessed with winning inevitably makes you afraid to learn or experiment. And in team games, being focused too much on just your win can actually take a player out of the game and keep them from working with their own team. I suspect this is the cause of so many players who aren't actually as awesome as they believe they are, screaming at their teammates for being so bad.

Sometimes losing is frustrating, but other times when I lose a single match in whatever game I don't feel bad at all. The specific events that happened in the game were more rewarding especially if it was a really close game that obviously could have gone either way due to a single, random read by either player.

 

[markwaters]

A game of Overwatch game lasts like 10 minutes. It's not a 60-minute game of Dota/LoL that your team throws, or a 30-round game of Counter-Strike that you lose 14-16. It's 10 minutes or less -- sometimes way less if you're losing badly. And it still pats you on the back and gives you 2k+ experience for getting destroyed. It's not a big deal to lose at all.

 

[freethoughtbubble]

Those aren't mutually exclusive crowds, I'd say. I'd be willing to bet that the people who tend to enjoy winning are also the people who tend to enjoy improving the most, for that exact reason.

We really are talking about the same crowd then. You can't deny that there are people who only enjoy winning, but can't stand the getting good part. That's a salty combination right there.

 

[KojiKnight]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like a ton of people have jumped on the Overwatch-bashing bandwagon in the last week.

Here's the thing, popular games create more vocal people against it. It's not even a greater %, it's still the same amount of the player base... they are just straight up more and so you see them more often.

 

[bizzarewars]

I’ve long stopped playing multiplayer games solo with the headset connected. I don’t want to be the internet thug who ruins your fun, but I can’t prevent myself from getting invested in the mission. Your cries to me saying, “Chill out, dude it’s just a game!” fill me with rage so palpable that I often dream about teleporting to your house to give you these hands. I need you to understand that I hate this part of me. I don’t want to be the headset harasser. I don’t want to ruin your gaming experience with my delusions of E-Sports grandeur, but your ineptitude greatly diminishes my level of fun.
If I’m tailing my teammate, ducking projectiles to heal him back to 100%, and he continues to aimlessly wander into enemy fire, I have a hard time containing my suite of expletives. I play single-player campaigns for the journey — multiplayer is about results and I come from the Herm Edwards School of Hard Knocks.

I identify so hard with this.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

I envy people who can devote themselves to a game like this. There's no way I could come close to doing what I would have to do to be decent at it, much less organize with others and play on their terms.

 

[The Lamonster]

I identify so hard with this.

Same. As Lucio with that passive aura healing, it's frustrating when I see someone wander off from the group trying to be a hero and them falling into critical health and eventually dying.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Joined a team with one other gaffer. The other 4 went all junkrat. Our defeat was inevitable.

 

[Imperfected]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like a ton of people have jumped on the Overwatch-bashing bandwagon in the last week.

Because it's a very popular Blizzard game, it's the first introduction a lot of people have to what are basically "known" concepts in existing genres those people didn't previously play in: microtransactions, objective-based teamplay, hero team compositions, etc.

These threads have basically all existed for some other game at some point between 2011 and now, you're just seeing them all happen in a time-lapse as the people who skipped TF2/DOTA/LOL/etc. get caught up to speed.

 

[Woo-Fu]

The first thing I did when I launched Overwatch was mute all voice chat, and I'm still having a great time with it.

Probably a waste of your time, at least on PC. Two weekend betas with ~60 levels of experience, another 50 in release and I've not once heard somebody in a pub game speak.

Maybe that is off by default?

I will say that solo queuing in this game requires the ability to have fun without winning the game because you're not going to win more than half of them on average and you're going to have painful losing streaks.

 

[randomengine]

What this game needs is a way to queue with someone on your friends list, to join them in their existing game/queue without explicitly grouping up. Sometimes I just want to jump in and out without feeling obligated to stick around more than one match.

Additionally, about half the time I get sucked into a losing team because one of their dudes bailed on them while they were get trounced. Nobody ever leaves a match when they are winning and so a lot of single players get roped into a losing match. Again, this happens at least 50% of the time. Not good matchmaking design. Needs to be fixed somehow.

Edit: I would be happier if highly skilled players were the ones more likely to be thrown into a losing game, that way their contribution will be more meaningful.

 

[markwaters]

We really are talking about the same crowd then. You can't deny that there are people who only enjoy winning, but can't stand the getting good part. That's a salty combination right there.

Yep:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

 

[DoublePayje]

Haven't picked up Overwatch yet, but am planning on doing so in the next couple weeks. I have a couple thousand hours in Leage (mostly solo ranked) and have found that it's a mixed bag but I have a good time regardless. The only communication I generally need is accomplished through the radial ping system.

Does Overwatch have a similar mechanic?

Yes, exactly such a radial menu is in the game. Though it is limited yet, you cannot ping positions or enemies. Just stuff like "thank you" and "my ultimate is XY% charged"

 

[ShutterMunster]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like a ton of people have jumped on the Overwatch-bashing bandwagon in the last week.

Who's bashing Overwatch?

 

[Heigic]

Good matchmaking should prevent the issues described.

 

[Vol5]

What level is he at? I'd wager most people at lvl 30 or above are completely switched on with the team mechanic. Feels like Geoff is feeling entitled for other players to do what he wants.

 

[AndrewPL]

I like how splatoon handled it. Default mode was random team mates and designed that everyone can help out even if they don't get kills.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Overwatch goes out of its way to not make it obvious which person on the team is letting down the side.

Outside of bad team composition you don't really have a lot of data to start point fingers with. In fact I've found most of the bad play callouts to come from the other team.

 

[Imperfected]

Good matchmaking should prevent the issues described.

I mean, it will, but it won't prevent people from convincing themselves the problems exist.

"I'm only a Bronze player because I keep getting stuck with bad teammates."

 

[wheeplash]

I agree. I want the days of old COD where I could go 27-1 on Hurtgen with my Springfield and laugh at the Axis team. Not have to rely on this dumb Mei who keeps walling off dumb, useless points on the map.

I don't see Overwatch staying in my rotation, especially with Ranked not coming out until July at the earliest. I'll be happier when things start to trend back to less team required focus.

You can still do that on Counter Strike.
It's fun going 30-5, you absolutely wreck place AND win the game.