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Ten Thing Japanese Hate About JRPGs
- Thread starter Darkmakaimura
- Start date
BolognaSoup
Member
Fixed #1
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
umm excuse me? That weapon saved my ass countless times through my numerous playthroughs. It was invaluable.
Trying to get the "better swords" you speak of would have been a bitch without the Zodiac.
No we can't. Apparently middle ground doesn't sell.
Give me one example of that 'middle ground'.
H_Prestige
Banned
The thing is completely overpowered when you get it. I don't know what you were doing where you felt like it was essential. The only point of getting it the secret way is if you feel like shit stomping through the first half of the game.
I remember getting tournesol and masamune on my first playthrough without ever getting the zodiac spear. I also think excalibur is more useful in the end game levels. I never regretted not having the spear.
Are you dissing FF6? Because you are making big mistake if you are, pal.
No, that game is probably my 2nd favorite ff. I account for the fact that it's over a decade old.
And even then, there are plenty of reasons to love FF6 outside of the battle system, it was just standard at the time.
No, turn-based combat is the best combat.
No way! Classic DQ/FF combat is the best. You could add 'skills' or 'summon' to that list, I suppose.
Also it wasn't strictly turn-based, and every character had a unique ability.
rainking187
Member
What does this mean?
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
Zegram Ghart is not too handsome. Not too ugly.
I'd also elect Auron from FFX as well. Not pretty by any means, but not hard to look at either.
This is the only thing on that list that I find kind of annoying. I like it so much more when an RPG that has more party members than you can have in the active party, and doesn't make the extra people wait at a hideout or whatever, lets you change characters during a battle. That, or least putting in a way to get the extras to participate in battle for a short moment. I always found it to be really silly when you have extra party members and in the story's terms they were there and participated in the fight, but when it comes to the gameplay they're off doing...something.
The rest of the list is either kind of weird but doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game, or I actually like them and don't mind seeing them in a game.
Slamtastic
Member
Spending tons on and heavily promoting the game's Theme Song sung by a popular artist and the celebrity (Idol) voice actresses.
See also anime.
Zegram Ghart is not too handsome. Not too ugly.
I'd also elect Auron from FFX as well. Not pretty by any means, but not hard to look at either.
Wait.
So Johnny Depp rip off is 'normal looking' to you? (I mean, not to mention he's not even main protagonist) If Auron looks 'middle ground' guy, then darn dude, what does your daddy look like?!
You surely have some incredibly high standard.
I was expecting more along the line of Drake from uncharted (he DOES look like regular guy)...
I've noticed in Japanese promo videos that they sometimes call an inordinate amount of attention to the voice cast and the theme song that only shows up once. Hell, didn't one of the Final Fantasy VII spinoffs have a character that was played by live-action footage of a rock star?
I don't see anything inherently bad about turn based combat. Sure come games like to spice it like Resonance of Fate or Radiant Historia and other games keep it standard like Pokemon or Dragon Quest, but as a game design choice it's fine. I find the complaints about it to be as silly as saying turn based strategy games are bad just cause they are turn based.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
FF6 is nearly two decades old at this point! Just a reminder that we're all getting old
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
I'm going by today's standards in Japanese gaming. Those two are definitely middle ground. They're not pretty by any stretch. They're also not ass ugly either. They're only "good looking" in this day and age.
I mean, Yangus from DQ8 is the only genuinely ugly prominent character I can even think of off the top of my head.
My number one complaint with JRPGs is the utterly insulting RNG/drop rates which developers use to drag their games out for another 50 hours.
I don't know how anyone can find it fun to grind the same piss easy enemy for 10 hours straight just so that it will drop a piece of crap that you can use to upgrade your weapon to max level.
Instead of making items a 1% drop from enemies why not make it so that you can get items as a 100% drop but only by fighting in more challenging ways. i.e. if you beat an enemy without using magic the drop is guaranteed. Or a monster that is massively weak to fire element but if you use fire on it then you don't get the drop and if you avoid using fire then the drop rate is 100%? Doing it this way would be more challenging and more rewarding than the farming that plagues the genre at the moment.
Finally, although I'm aware that you can simply avoid such tedium in games it definitely means spending less time with a game because of it. Two of my favourite JRPGs of this generation (Demon's Souls and Nier) were massively guilty of insultingly low drop rates and it led me to spend less time with these games than I would have, had their been another way of fighting to upgrade all your weapons.
I don't know how anyone can find it fun to grind the same piss easy enemy for 10 hours straight just so that it will drop a piece of crap that you can use to upgrade your weapon to max level.
Instead of making items a 1% drop from enemies why not make it so that you can get items as a 100% drop but only by fighting in more challenging ways. i.e. if you beat an enemy without using magic the drop is guaranteed. Or a monster that is massively weak to fire element but if you use fire on it then you don't get the drop and if you avoid using fire then the drop rate is 100%? Doing it this way would be more challenging and more rewarding than the farming that plagues the genre at the moment.
Finally, although I'm aware that you can simply avoid such tedium in games it definitely means spending less time with a game because of it. Two of my favourite JRPGs of this generation (Demon's Souls and Nier) were massively guilty of insultingly low drop rates and it led me to spend less time with these games than I would have, had their been another way of fighting to upgrade all your weapons.
Have you ever heard of...
TORNEKO.
or...
Far east of eden?
The only problem is that both game were able to sell somewhat OK just because of DQ and Far East of Eden name value. As stand-alone they would have stand no chance whatsoever.
I only actively dislike turn-based combat when it's slow. I like, quick snappy battles. Skies of Arcadia is a good example. I think it's a pretty solid RPG, but the slowness of the combat drags it down a bit for me.
My list:
1. Unlike WRPG, it's cinematic, combat, cinematic with little to no influence on story and its branching paths.
2. Stuck with one costume- Seriously, who goes for days without change of dress, lol. Of course, I understand that the dress is a part of their identity that can be easily exploited for creating merchandises.
3. Save points. DS did a great job of doing away with them; the interval system is archaic.
1. Unlike WRPG, it's cinematic, combat, cinematic with little to no influence on story and its branching paths.
2. Stuck with one costume- Seriously, who goes for days without change of dress, lol. Of course, I understand that the dress is a part of their identity that can be easily exploited for creating merchandises.
3. Save points. DS did a great job of doing away with them; the interval system is archaic.
I, for one, welcome the change. It felt more fresh to play as a gruff father (Which makes more sense that he's some kind of mercenary) that is doing everything in his might to save his daughter as opposed to playing a feminine brother guy.
I can't remember the producer's stance on the subject though. I've read conflicting info regarding whether he feels Father Nier is canon or not.
Also I hope that #1 on the list is adressed some day, it'd be fun to have both older and less handsome protagonists.
This is one thing in games thats always confused me.. you just take everything and no one ever seems to care.
If Link was running around my house breaking jars full of rubees id kick his ass.
BannedEpisode
Member
"Opening chests without permission"
I laughed out loud.
I laughed out loud.
Hmm, sure, I'll Bite.
I agree with this mostly; It's boring when a cast is made with all samey-looking people. I can understand WHY the mains are "attractive", but there could be some mix-up on the secondary cast, or we could even see "attractive" character introduced last, and more rugged, plain guys introduced first, but with stronger characterization to make them likeable.
Every media stars "Attractive" main characters, but RPGs offer a unique chance to get to know the character to great depth. This should be taken advantage of more.
This is annoying. Why not just keep it a movie? The pacing is horrid, and it;s like a tease of "hey, you might get to play agai- OOPS! NOT NOW!"
It was funny the first 10 years I'd love to see more RPGs either make it a privilage, or make it a mini moral choice. Make all the people who notice call you a pickpocket, make this belittlement stick with you, and switch it up, and make those who you deny rewards from spread news of you generosity, and have people maybe even give you better stuff late-game, for not "stealing" stuff early game.
I agree. It's an RPG, and I'm normally the "leader". Let me put whomever I want in those fights! If I want the cleaning lady of the fortress to pick up a gun and fight in my place, I should be able to make it happen! I really dislike it when there's a likeable NPC that you have around, that you can't DO anything with.
Do we ever feel that in the US? "FF XIII-2, what's that, OOO, OOO, Another interview with LAURA BAILEY!" I can perhaps understand the feeling, from seeing all the CV mentions and bonus ads that pop up in JP game announcements, though. Also, when they show a bunch of character speak, CV, Theme, etc, before showing real gameplay, or system details...
Yeah, I'd be happy if JRPGs began ads with focuses on gameplay, and let the CV and Image song stuff wait for a while. No insult to the artist themselves, as I enjoy much of their work, it's just that "the reason" I'd decide on a game or not.
Hehe, lucky you! But really, you'd think there be better organization for these things by now. But maybe it's just not readily possible?
Yeah, I don't like "Secrets" that are rewarded by an outside method, either. Make it part of the game lore. Give me a hint. Make the reward scale by how much or little attention I place on it. Make multiple rewards that each begin at different points in game. Or make a gameplay-related trial that lets me backtrack and reclaim progress I missed out on. Those kind of things would make "secrets" much more enjoyable, and engrossing.
"Dumb for the sake of advancing the story", ahhh. It's jarring in a ROLE playing game, when your avatar into the world doesn't do what you want. I'd love to see an RPG that makes you carry your decisions with you, through consequences. Not just "party member left the group", or such, but do things like give my character permanent injuries, difigurement, heroic distinction, better weapons, etc. Instead of the tired and true "these look like too many enemies... RUN!" when you know you're strong enough to take on all you see before you.
Haha. Story padding that detracts from the adventure. You know, I'd love to see an RPG where the "Sidestory" content doesn't even open up until new game plus. And then that side content changes the story, as previous events you were on time for before, you might be too late for, as you went on a different errand. Or, you might make new events, because you tampered with something that changed the course of history.
Western RPGs are called "WRPGs" too, right? If anything, I think it's something of an honor to have your own spin on a genre. It might be a little overbearing, but I never see this as truly negative.
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Japanese RPGs could really use some expansion amongst their own systems, and some growth of ideas. Or even revisiting old ones. I still want more games that play like Grandia II and X-2!
Personally, I'd be all for shorter, more feature-packed tales, that offer enough fresh content in a Normal play, plus New game +, to = 60 hours (or near it). Much like Vanguard Bandits, and it's 3 story paths.
Wouldn't that be the best way, to write memorable characters? Show us all facets of their personality, like how they'd deal with love and relationships in one path, and then, on a second playthrough, see how they'd deal with that love being killed before their time, or even what'd happen if that previous love interest now became a bitter rival, who you never had the chance to get to know?
There'd just be SO MUCH MORE to explore beyond "Kill deity-like beast, save world...BUT AT WHAT COST?!?"
I agree with this mostly; It's boring when a cast is made with all samey-looking people. I can understand WHY the mains are "attractive", but there could be some mix-up on the secondary cast, or we could even see "attractive" character introduced last, and more rugged, plain guys introduced first, but with stronger characterization to make them likeable.
Every media stars "Attractive" main characters, but RPGs offer a unique chance to get to know the character to great depth. This should be taken advantage of more.
This is annoying. Why not just keep it a movie? The pacing is horrid, and it;s like a tease of "hey, you might get to play agai- OOPS! NOT NOW!"
It was funny the first 10 years
I'd love to see more RPGs either make it a privilage, or make it a mini moral choice. Make all the people who notice call you a pickpocket, make this belittlement stick with you, and switch it up, and make those who you deny rewards from spread news of you generosity, and have people maybe even give you better stuff late-game, for not "stealing" stuff early game.I agree. It's an RPG, and I'm normally the "leader". Let me put whomever I want in those fights! If I want the cleaning lady of the fortress to pick up a gun and fight in my place, I should be able to make it happen! I really dislike it when there's a likeable NPC that you have around, that you can't DO anything with.
Do we ever feel that in the US? "FF XIII-2, what's that, OOO, OOO, Another interview with LAURA BAILEY!" I can perhaps understand the feeling, from seeing all the CV mentions and bonus ads that pop up in JP game announcements, though. Also, when they show a bunch of character speak, CV, Theme, etc, before showing real gameplay, or system details...
Yeah, I'd be happy if JRPGs began ads with focuses on gameplay, and let the CV and Image song stuff wait for a while. No insult to the artist themselves, as I enjoy much of their work, it's just that "the reason" I'd decide on a game or not.
Hehe, lucky you! But really, you'd think there be better organization for these things by now. But maybe it's just not readily possible?
Yeah, I don't like "Secrets" that are rewarded by an outside method, either. Make it part of the game lore. Give me a hint. Make the reward scale by how much or little attention I place on it. Make multiple rewards that each begin at different points in game. Or make a gameplay-related trial that lets me backtrack and reclaim progress I missed out on. Those kind of things would make "secrets" much more enjoyable, and engrossing.
"Dumb for the sake of advancing the story", ahhh. It's jarring in a ROLE playing game, when your avatar into the world doesn't do what you want. I'd love to see an RPG that makes you carry your decisions with you, through consequences. Not just "party member left the group", or such, but do things like give my character permanent injuries, difigurement, heroic distinction, better weapons, etc. Instead of the tired and true "these look like too many enemies... RUN!" when you know you're strong enough to take on all you see before you.
Haha. Story padding that detracts from the adventure. You know, I'd love to see an RPG where the "Sidestory" content doesn't even open up until new game plus. And then that side content changes the story, as previous events you were on time for before, you might be too late for, as you went on a different errand. Or, you might make new events, because you tampered with something that changed the course of history.
Western RPGs are called "WRPGs" too, right? If anything, I think it's something of an honor to have your own spin on a genre. It might be a little overbearing, but I never see this as truly negative.
-----
Japanese RPGs could really use some expansion amongst their own systems, and some growth of ideas. Or even revisiting old ones. I still want more games that play like Grandia II and X-2!
Personally, I'd be all for shorter, more feature-packed tales, that offer enough fresh content in a Normal play, plus New game +, to = 60 hours (or near it). Much like Vanguard Bandits, and it's 3 story paths.
Wouldn't that be the best way, to write memorable characters? Show us all facets of their personality, like how they'd deal with love and relationships in one path, and then, on a second playthrough, see how they'd deal with that love being killed before their time, or even what'd happen if that previous love interest now became a bitter rival, who you never had the chance to get to know?
There'd just be SO MUCH MORE to explore beyond "Kill deity-like beast, save world...BUT AT WHAT COST?!?"
MrCunningham
Member
So basically this list can be summed up as: "We're bored of getting spoon fed the same thing over and over again. Do something new."
Those all seem like pretty reasonable complaints to me, to be honest.
Actually, the first game I bought for my new PC gaming rig was Skyrim, I have been playing it off and on sporadically for the last week. It's a great game, but one complaint I've had so far was number 3 on this list. We are still playing RPG's where we can walk into anyone's house and steal all their stuff? But I guess this is just a commonly used gaming trope, that we all take it for granted now.
Though Skyrim does avoid numbers 1, 2, 5, 6 (though instead of pre-orders we all sit in download ques online), and 10 (yeah, no kidding) on that list. But some of these complains are universal across all RPG's and not just exclusive to JRPG's.
And (through Navi) he'd ask what the heck have you done lately to save your world? You'd repeat the 1 line of dialog you know and he'd leave and go bomb the King of Dodongos, risking his life for people who don't even care.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The person you quoted was incorrect. The game was developed with "Father Nier" in mind, and the "Brother Nier" was a concession made later for the tastes of the home market. Maybe it's best to say that the game was developed with both Niers in mind... But the "Father" came first in development.
I have a lot of irks about Nier, but I will say one of the best things was the Father character. Glad to see something like that.
Now we just need some 40+ year old females in fighting games.... We've barely cracked 30. (Chun li was 31 in 3rd strike)
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
In this thread, we complain about games staring characters who aren't ugly.
I'll wait in the OT for the thread complaining about movies staring actors who aren't ugly.
I'll wait in the OT for the thread complaining about movies staring actors who aren't ugly.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
That's already an old complaint with certain movies, especially movies with high profile actors that break the illusion of the scenario. Also with good looking actors or actresses that have the personality of a potato, also an issue with a good amount of JRPG.
Plenty of ugly actors out there though...
CornBurrito
Member
What's wrong with turn-based combat?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
To be fair.. There aren't a lot of older people in any real world sports, for obvious reasons.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
-Geralt does quest
-poor villager in house: "Thanks for helping us, but we are really poor so we dont really have anything, still, take this orens as a thanks!"
-Geralt (player chooses): "Dont worry, you dont have to give me anything"
-In the same house, use the medalion to see which furniture has objects, take all the shit inside the furniture you can, including 20 orens.
I dont see that as a problem though, its just funny to me, and is also really attached to the RPG lore. So I dont mind having it in games. But I also dont mind if another RPG comes and doesnt let you do that for example.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Although I should know better, seeing as this was a trope heavy JRPG she was probably 21. RIP
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
And there are plenty of JRPG characters I wouldn't exactly call pretty. My point is that I think the whole "They're so pretty ugh" argument is overblown.
KingItachi
Member
Someone actually made that list smh.
I'm guessing they don't like the fact that their RPGs are sort of stigmatized by the rest of the world as being not real RPG's but something else, which is why they're tagged with that 'J-' qualifier. (And that's an argument that some people here have made about JRPG's as well, so they wouldn't be wrong.)