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[afternoon delight]

I love it when we get new people on GAF because there's always that phase where religious people still post and discuss in threads about homosexuality and evolution. I spend way too much time reading the arguments/reasoning behind their opinions, and it only reinforces my nonbelief. I imagine it's why we see so many married Republicans in the news with homosexual callboys - they just want to see how the other side thinks.

 

[JGS]

Whether homosexuality is a sin is irrelevant since it shouldn't relate to the laws of the land which routinely allow freedom to engage in any number of sins (After all, fornication of all types is a sin per Christian Doctrine- heterosexual or homosexual)- even encouraging some of them wholeheartedly.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

LOL wow nice


Well please show me where there have been any substantial findings that prove a biological link to homosexuality. They have never been able to prove it is biological.

Is heterosexuality also a choice? When did you decided to not be gay?

 

[SteveWinwood]

Not to get off topic here, but to engage my viewpoint I would like to first prove the existence of a higher being.

Therefore I will start with a question. Anybody feel free to answer.

Where did the universe come from?

Out of your ass possibly.

 

[Sent]

LOL God does not make homosexuals. He created all people with a free will. When we are born we have choices.

I could do any number of things in my life with my choices.

God did give them the ability to choose a homosexual lifestyle. But that is their choice not God's

 

[Dunk#7]

Odin made it out of a dead frost giant.

Where did Odin come from?

 

[Tenks]

Odin made it out of a dead frost giant.

Real talk but I got a bad ass axe for my dwarf from a frost giant in BGark Alliance.

 

[Patryn]

Where did any of that come from in the first place? Something had to create something

So why not Zeus? Or Odin? Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Or the Spectre infusing Damage with large amounts of energy?

 

[Escape Goat]

Where did Odin come from?

Where did God come from? Do you honestly not see what is going on here?

 

[spiderman123]

Where did Odin come from?

From Thor in theaters May 6th

 

[Suite Pee]

I believe the main point of this thread is the potential harm this will cause in the development of young children with same-sex parents. You know, like reinforcing the negative attitudes some of the other kids at school have toward people not like them.

Teaching children that their and/or their parents' lifestyle is not appropriate for public discussion is not something that should be happening in the 21st Century.

(but damn, Dunk, did you even read the OT before you started posting here?)

 

[gerg]

Your essential problem is that you're arguing as though God's existence has already been conceded. It hasn't.

I don't see why it matters whether or not God's existence has or hasn't been proven. That God exists doesn't necessarily support the proposition that "Homosexuality is wrong.", and any good theological argument will not use such a metaphysical proposition alone to support a moral conclusion. Dunk#7's logic is equally faulty whether or not it turns out that a God created the universe.

In any case, I doubt that Dunk#7 would be willing to concede that an epistemology with a universe that must always exist is simpler than one with a universe and a sentient God that must always exist, and that per Occam's Razor the former should be preferred to the latter.

 

[Zeke]

O I agree we need sex ed just not in elementary lol or at least when they in 4th grade or older lol I was thinking bout 2nd graders lol.
Ya we live in the ghetto so I know what u mean, a lil to much :/ I have a SIS in 8th grade now that I worry bout.

Truth is its just hard for ppl to understand that the way life grow up now is so much different then before that they may need sex ed at a much earlier age.

Edit; gaf is now blocked at work so I'm sorry for typos I'm on my phone.

thats how I feel too let a kid be a dumb kid a little longer no real need to rush. Just remember if she ever introduces you to a guy ask if he wants to see you're gun collection lol My exes dad pulled that on me he kept showing me his 40 cal kinda had the opposite effect since I'm a bit of a gun nut lol He was a cool guy tho real conservative but never in anyone's face about it.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

Where did God come from? Do you honestly not see what is going on here?

Seriously.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

It is a sin (or "wrong") according to .... who exactly? The bearded dude in the sky? The guy who "made" (lol I actually laughed writing that) imperfect beings and requires perfection to enter his country club?

heaven has a heated pool, A HEATED FUCKING POOL!

how many country clubs do you know that has one of those?

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

tolerance = I tolerate your sinful life but I don't agree with it
acceptance = I don't care you're gay we can still be friends

I know what these words mean, but the Bill says this

He clarified this past September that he supports promoting tolerance, but not acceptance

If one tolerates people, one accepts people.

 

[Patryn]

I don't see why it matters whether or not God's existence has or hasn't been proven. That God exists doesn't necessarily support the proposition that "Homosexuality is wrong.", and any good theological argument will not use such a metaphysical proposition alone to support a moral conclusion. Dunk#7's logic is equally faulty whether or not it turns out that a God created the universe.

That's part of where I was going to go. Even if the existence of a creator was conceded, there is literally no proof that it is the God that Dunk believes it to be.

For the religious, this doesn't matter. Faith in the face of a lack of facts is important.

What's messed up is that a bill like this enforces the morality of those religious upon other people without a factual basis to prop it up. They instead deride the lack of scientific proof of homosexuality being biological, despite copious amount of evidence (such as homosexuality being observed in wild animals) that would point to a connection. In many ways, it's hypocritical.

 

[Dunk#7]

Where did God come from? Do you honestly not see what is going on here?

Yes, I see exactly what is going on here.

Something had to exist prior to the universe being created. At this point I am not saying it was God.

To me it seems very hard to believe that the Universe is a spinning cluster or randomness. How can you seriously look at the world around you and the complex working of the human body and really feel like it all just came to be out of random chance? There has to be a knowledgeable creator that built what you see today.

 

[Dude Abides]

If one tolerates people, one accepts people.

When conservatives say they will tolerate people, they mean they will continue to hate them, but will refrain from trying to kill or imprison them.

The Confederate states will always lag behind the more civilized states, but they'll come around eventually.

 

[jaxword]

LOL God does not make homosexuals. He created all people with a free will. When we are born we have choices.

I could do any number of things in my life with my choices.

God did give them the ability to choose a homosexual lifestyle. But that is their choice not God's

What would be the way to show the homosexuals how to choose the right sexuality (which is heterosexuality)?

Perhaps we should have some sort of schools or camps for homosexuals to be re-educated?

 

[spiderman123]

Yes, I see exactly what is going on here.

Something had to exist prior to the universe being created. At this point I am not saying it was God.

Ahh the old energy cannot be created nor destroyed theory ehh! popcorn.gif

 

[Escape Goat]

Yes, I see exactly what is going on here.

Something had to exist prior to the universe being created. At this point I am not saying it was God.

To me it seems very hard to believe that the Universe is a spinning cluster or randomness. How can you seriously look at the world around you and the complex working of the human body and really feel like it all just came to be out of random chance? There has to be a knowledgeable creator that built what you see today.

So you maintain homosexuality is a sin when you concede the point God may not exist? Alright. I'm out.

 

[Koomaster]

Please stop responding to Drunk#7 and just add him to your ignore list. You aren't going to change his opinions and this debate is pointless because we've heard it all before.

 

[Matt]

Yes, I see exactly what is going on here.

Something had to exist prior to the universe being created. At this point I am not saying it was God.

To me it seems very hard to believe that the Universe is a spinning cluster or randomness. How can you seriously look at the world around you and the complex working of the human body and really feel like it all just came to be out of random chance? There has to be a knowledgeable creator that built what you see today.

You didn't answer the question. Where did that "creator" come from?

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

God made us with free will. Why would a creator create robots that simply follow his every command and have no ability to disobey?

Worship by people who have no choice would not mean anything to a creator.

back when I was a Christian, the one thing I could never reconcile in my mind is the concept of hell. why would God create humanity, just to condemn 99% of them to eternal punishment? Going over the course of human history, that means 10s, possibly hundreds of billions of people burning eternally?

that God sounds like the ultimate asshole and troll.

 

[Patryn]

Yes, I see exactly what is going on here.

Something had to exist prior to the universe being created. At this point I am not saying it was God.

To me it seems very hard to believe that the Universe is a spinning cluster or randomness. How can you seriously look at the world around you and the complex working of the human body and really feel like it all just came to be out of random chance? There has to be a knowledgeable creator that built what you see today.

I see one world out of trillions. Simple odds, and the nature of chemistry, would seem to indicate that chance would create something like us eventually.

So, no, I do not concede a creator. I concede that we as of yet do not have a full explanation for the origins of the universe.

Immediately jumping to the explanation "a mysterious entity of which we have no proof did it!" seems lazy.

 

[spiderman123]

Please stop responding to Drunk#7 and just add him to your ignore list. You aren't going to change his opinions and this debate is pointless because we've heard it all before.

I second this motion but not on the ignore lists. I want to see future posts in different threads.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

It isn't that big of a deal, but it is a sin.

It is no more of a sin than the ones everybody commits on a daily basis, including me. No sin is any worse than another.

We all sin regularly and thus need atonement because we fall miserably short of the perfection needed to attain Heaven. Nobody is worthy on their own merits

Love thy neighbor especially because they are sinful. That what Jesus said right. I wish you religious people stop hand pick which parts of the Bible you want to follow, and just follow love thy neighbor rule.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

Something had to exist prior to the universe being created.

Really? Wouldn't that have been "the universe" as well?

 

[gerg]

For the religious, this doesn't matter. Faith in the face of a lack of facts is important.

I don't think that the latter is necessarily true. The type of faith you might talk about when regarding the matter of God's existence is "choosing a more complicated epistemology than necessary when all other factors are the same" - a religious person needn't deny the Big Bang to believe in God, so I don't find belief in God especially damning, and certainly not especially likely to create the type of illogic you see here. For that you simply need illogic itself.

They instead deride the lack of scientific proof of homosexuality being biological, despite copious amount of evidence (such as homosexuality being observed in wild animals) that would point to a connection. In many ways, it's hypocritical.

As much as it is may be the case that there is a biological basis in homosexuality, the naturalistic fallacy swings both ways - there is a biological basis in murder, too, after all. As was written at the end of a NewScientist article a while ago - and this was, in fact, an article about homosexuality in other animals (inasmuch as sexuality as a whole can exist outside of humanity - there should be arguments towards the ethical nature of homosexuality other than "It's natural, after all."

 

[jaxword]

Please stop responding to Drunk#7 and just add him to your ignore list. You aren't going to change his opinions and this debate is pointless because we've heard it all before.

I think we should listen to Dunk#7. I'd like to hear his solution on how to make homosexuals choose to be straight.

 

[Zoibie]

You said that it's pointless for a creator to create something without free-will, I'd say it's just as pointless for a creator to create man with an intrinsic sense of inquisitiveness and then just straight up give him all the answers.

 

[Zeke]

When conservatives say they will tolerate people, they mean they will continue to hate them, but will refrain from trying to kill or imprison them.

The Confederate states will always lag behind the more civilized states, but they'll come around eventually.

sigh had to come sooner or later which means its time for me to bail on this thread

 

[Dunk#7]

Haha

Why is everybody getting so angry about my opinions?

Is it not allowed to have a civil debate without people adding you to ignore lists...etc

I could be ranting and raving about everybody elses opinions as well, but I am not.

We can simply agree to disagree and move along. I have no problem ending the argument.

 

[Y2Kev]

So in 8th grade we definitely had real sex ed. Like diagrams of vaginas and penises and the like.

We also learned about the "nuclear family" and that crap.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

Yes, I see exactly what is going on here.

Something had to exist prior to the universe being created. At this point I am not saying it was God.

To me it seems very hard to believe that the Universe is a spinning cluster or randomness. How can you seriously look at the world around you and the complex working of the human body and really feel like it all just came to be out of random chance? There has to be a knowledgeable creator that built what you see today.

I'd recommend you take a course on biology. there are so many books written explaining how the human body works and the path from one point to the next. Even a quick wikipedia read can give one a fundamental understanding of the issue. I used to believe the same thing until I actually read about evolution instead of listening to the nonsense the preacher/sunday school teachers taught.

 

[spiderman123]

Haha

Why is everybody getting so angry about my opinions?

Is it not allowed to have a civil debate without people adding you to ignore lists...etc

I could be ranting and raving about everybody elses opinions as well, but I am not.

We can simply agree to disagree and move along. I have no problem ending the argument.

no one is angry, It's share disbelief, your certainly allowed to have your opinions but here on GAF we have a rule. If you make a claim. back it up with factual, tangible evidence please

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Love thy neighbor especially because they are sinful. That what Jesus said right. I wish you religious people stop hand pick which parts of the Bible you want to follow, and just follow love thy neighbor rule.

Bible also tells you to stone people.

 

[jaxword]

Haha

Why is everybody getting so angry about my opinions?

Is it not allowed to have a civil debate without people adding you to ignore lists...etc

I could be ranting and raving about everybody elses opinions as well, but I am not.

We can simply agree to disagree and move along. I have no problem ending the argument.

I'm not angry. I'd like to hear a proposal on how we can make homosexuals choose to be straight again.

I think if you posted one, everyone would listen to you.

 

[Dude Abides]

sigh had to come sooner or later which means its time for me to bail on this thread

You shouldn't take it personally. There are plenty of fine people living in those states, just not the majority.

 

[Patryn]

I don't think that the latter is necessarily true. The type of faith you might talk about when regarding the matter of God's existence is "choosing a more complicated epistemology than necessary when all other factors are the same" - a religious person needn't deny the Big Bang to believe in God, so I don't find belief in God especially damning, and certainly not especially likely to create the type of illogic you see here. For that you simply need illogic itself.



As much as it is may be the case that there is a biological basis in homosexuality, the naturalistic fallacy swings both ways - there is a biological basis in murder, too, after all. As was written at the end of a NewScientist article a while ago - and this was, in fact, an article about homosexuality in other animals (inasmuch as sexuality as a whole can exist outside of humanity - there should be arguments towards the ethical nature of homosexuality other than "It's natural, after all."

Yes, but one could argue that murder, by its very nature, harms another person, thus it should be discouraged (and I'll grant that some people are biologically predisposed to murder, such as sociopaths). How does homosexuality harm other people? A bunch of people being gay doesn't weaken my relationship with my girlfriend.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

I think we should listen to Dunk#7. I'd like to hear his solution on how to make homosexuals choose to be straight.

let them watch straight porn. i know whenever i watch it it makes me want to get with a chick.

 

[Dunk#7]

Love thy neighbor especially because they are sinful. That what Jesus said right. I wish you religious people stop hand pick which parts of the Bible you want to follow, and just follow love thy neighbor rule.

How am I hating anybody? I have not once hated anybody who chose a homosexual lifestyle. I have had several homosexual friends that have even stayed in my place.

This does not mean I agree with their lifestyle.

You can disagree with somebody without hating them.

 

[Matt]

As much as it is may be the case that there is a biological basis in homosexuality, the naturalistic fallacy swings both ways - there is a biological basis in murder, too, after all. As was written at the end of a NewScientist article a while ago - and this was, in fact, an article about homosexuality in other animals (inasmuch as sexuality as a whole can exist outside of humanity - there should be arguments towards the ethical nature of homosexuality other than "It's natural, after all."

It's an argument about choice, not ethics. Whether or not homosexuality is a choice or not has nothing to do with an ethical debate, because either way it is.

 

[richiek]

How am I hating anybody? I have not once hated anybody who chose a homosexual lifestyle. I have had several homosexual friends that have even stayed in my place.

This does not mean I agree with their lifestyle.

You can disagree with somebody without hating them.

LOL. The "I have gay friends but..." arguement.

 

[Funky Papa]

How am I hating anybody? I have not once hated anybody who chose a homosexual lifestyle. I have had several homosexual friends that have even stayed in my place.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Edit: I love my vaginas dearly, but what I wouldn't give to know what it feels reading posts such as Dunk's from a gay perspective.

 

[Escape Goat]

Haha

Why is everybody getting so angry about my opinions?

Is it not allowed to have a civil debate without people adding you to ignore lists...etc

I could be ranting and raving about everybody elses opinions as well, but I am not.

We can simply agree to disagree and move along. I have no problem ending the argument.

Angry? Not in the least. Confused? Sure. I feel sorry for you actually.

And nobody is ranting and raving. Get off your high horse.

 

[Dunk#7]

I'm not angry. I'd like to hear a proposal on how we can make homosexuals choose to be straight again.

I think if you posted one, everyone would listen to you.

I would like to see you make anybody choose anything.

You can't force choices on people. They are their choices

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

How am I hating anybody? I have not once hated anybody who chose a homosexual lifestyle. I have had several homosexual friends that have even stayed in my place.

This does not mean I agree with their lifestyle.

You can disagree with somebody without hating them.

But you should not condemn people because of their life style.

 

[Matt]

How am I hating anybody? I have not once hated anybody who chose a homosexual lifestyle. I have had several homosexual friends that have even stayed in my place.

This does not mean I agree with their lifestyle.

You can disagree with somebody without hating them.

lol, "I don't hate them, I even let them sleep near me!"

Anytime you have to start hiding your bigotry with quaint anecdotes from your life, you have already exposed yourself.

BTW, third time now. Where did god come from?