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[Swass]

Millions of people are currently affected by the evacuation of Florida as Hurricane Irma starts reaching the state and creates some difficult traffic situation when escaping north. There are reports of traffic jams and gas stations running out gas.

There are a lot Tesla owners in Florida and they are also escaping north using the Supercharger network.

Now Tesla has even facilitated travels for some of them as the automaker remotely unlocked the full battery pack capacity of Model S/X 60/60D vehicles with 75 kWh battery packs.

That’s due to Tesla using an unforeseen feature of their over-the-air software update system.

Tesla used to offer the option to buy a Model S or Model X with a 75 kWh battery pack software-locked at a capacity of 60 kWh. The option would result in a less expensive vehicle with a shorter range, but the option to pay to remotely enable the longer range at a later stage.

Some of those owners reported this morning having more range than usual in their vehicles.

A Tesla Model S 60 owner in Florida reached out to us with almost 40 more miles than in his usual full charge and a new ’75’ badge in his car software.

https://electrek.co/2017/09/09/tesl...es-for-free-in-florida-escape-hurricane-irma/

This is a great gesture and all but it brought to light that Tesla is basically offering on disk DLC for cars. Being a fan of Tesla, this is quite shocking and really sours me on their brand knowing that they are doing this.

 

[Zombie James]

Tesla used to offer the option to buy a Model S or Model X with a 75 kWh battery pack software-locked at a capacity of 60 kWh. The option would result in a less expensive vehicle with a shorter range, but the option to pay to remotely enable the longer range at a later stage.

What the fuck...

 

[GameAddict411]

It's fucked up they did this to begin with. Just wow.

 

[JABEE]

I'm not ready for this kind of shit.

 

[MarionCB]

I had no idea they did this. Yeah, that's outrageous to artificially limit installed hardware; it really sours me on them as well.

Also, it kind of sounds like they give no notifications or choice in updating the firmware.

 

[oldmario]

i don't think it's just tesla doing "car dlc", a relative bought a newish car (renault or vauxhall car) a while ago and i think they had the option of paying extra to get bluetooth connectivity in their car or it could've been something else on the touchscreen that they had to pay to unlock if they wanted to use it but i can't actually remember exactly what

 

[Demoskinos]

can't wait for car feature loot boxes.

 

[Jebusman]

What the fuck...

Don't ignore the "less expensive vehicle" part.

It was essentially Tesla selling you the battery at a lower price than usual, at the cost of not being allowed to use the battery's max capacity.

It's not like they were ONLY selling the 60kHW model and then later informed everyone "Hey, you can actually pay to upgrade this right now!" as if it was never there in the first place.

It was more "Hey, you can't afford the 75kHW model? How about we cut you a deal with 60kHW, and if you feel like you wanna go up to 75, you can pay later"

That's the rational behind it.

 

[Mike M]

https://electrek.co/2017/09/09/tesl...es-for-free-in-florida-escape-hurricane-irma/

This is a great gesture and all but it brought to light that Tesla is basically offering on disk DLC for cars. Being a fan of Tesla, this is quite shocking and really sours me on their brand knowing that they are doing this.

"On disc DLC for cars" doesn't even fully encompass what a dick move this is. DLC at least has the fig leaf of an argument that the content took additional resources above and beyond the main game.

 

[GreenMonkey]

The software unlock thing has been known for a while. It's cheaper for them to manufacture all the same battery than to ship with different versions.

 

[Volimar]

I mean would you be happier if they had just used smaller batteries? They bought it for cheaper than it would have been otherwise. They knew they were getting a deal that they could upgrade later. It seems kind of weird, but I'm not going to fault Tesla for giving a money saving option, especially when they've temporarily unlocked it for free to help people in this catastrophe.

 

[Giolon]

IIRC, Tesla found it ended up being cheaper to just manufacture the 75kwh battery and software limit it rather than manufacture a 60kwh and 75kwh separately.

IMO, if you can manufacture the 75kwh battery that cheaply, just make it the minimum option. Why bother faking a lower capacity?

I remember people trying to compare it to Intel where i3 chips are just i5 chips w/ some of the cores disabled, but the difference there is those disabled cores are purportedly defective. 1 manufacturing process, multiple resulting products depending on how each copy turns out.

None of this "we software capped your battery, yo, but you can upgrade and remove the cap for a fee"

 

[captive]

How is it like on disc dlc?

1 anyone who bought a 60kw car knows exactly what they were buying.

2 the cost is more or less the same whether you bought a 60 and then upgraded, than just buying a 75. The difference being you can wait till you have the money to upgrade.


Iirc they've already made the 75 the lowest option and thr 60 of longer exists.

 

[Swass]

The software unlock thing has been known for a while. It's cheaper for them to manufacture all the same battery than to ship with different versions.

So why not just make it a standard feature rather than gate it off?

How is it like on disc dlc?

1 anyone who bought a 60kw car knows exactly what they were buying.

2 the cost is more or less the same whether you bought a 60 and then upgraded, than just buying a 75. The difference being you can wait till you have the money to upgrade.

Because the resources and materials have already been invested.. so either the person buying the longer range is getting gouged or Tesla is taking a loss on the lower range version. I wonder which one is accurate....

 

[KojiKnight]

They are selling the car at a discount and allowing you to get the full price feature if you change your mind down the road.

 

[epmode]

The software unlock thing has been known for a while. It's cheaper for them to manufacture all the same battery than to ship with different versions.

Then perhaps they shouldn't monetize different ranges. This is crazy.

 

[DarkestHour]

DLC for cars. Wow.

 

[neshcom]

So why not just make it a standard feature rather than gate it off?

To make a version of the car that's more affordable?

 

[Jebusman]

So why not just make it a standard feature rather than gate it off?

Because it lets them offer the cars at the cheaper price to those who might be on the fence, and need that push of a couple thousand down to take the jump.

Like you (and a whole lot others) seem to be ignoring that the 60kHW was actually cheaper to buy.

It's not like I bought a $60 game and then "oh hey want to pay $20 to unlock this shit we totally didn't tell you about?"

It's "Hey, I know $60 is rough for you. How about you buy part of the game for only $40, and if you want the rest of the content later you can pay up the $20"

Your on-disc DLC comparison is honestly just going to derail everyone.

 

[I_D]

I'm going to assume limiting the range was to preserve the longevity of the batteries.

That's why they did it, right? Right?

 

[tbm24]

Sounds a lot like car manufacturers locking away power in their cars that require an ECU flash to unlock.

 

[East Lake]

There's nothing to be mad about. If you want 75kwh, pay for it.

 

[Windam]

Can I get DLC for my car that'll turn it into Stoya?

 

[NeOak]

So why not just make it a standard feature rather than gate it off?

They are selling the car at a discount and allowing you to get the full price feature if you change your mind down the road.

.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

This brand of price discrimination really isn't that uncommon when you're trying to recoup enormous R&D costs.

 

[giancarlo123x]

DLC for cars. Wow.

What a time to be alive.

 

[D4Danger]

can't wait for car feature loot boxes.

you're driving a loot box

 

[killer rin]

I dont get what you are all complaining about. People got a literal cheaper vehicle upfront. If under normal circumstances they didn't actually need the full range, it makes complete sense to take the discount and save on the extra range. Then if you decided you needed a better range at a later date you would still be able to unlock said range by essentially paying the top off value that you would have initially paid upfront.

 

[kswiston]

To make a version of the car that's more affordable?

They aren't doing that though. If they put a 75 kwh battery into a cheaper car, then it's already factored into the price of the cheaper car. They are putting the full capacity behind a paywall as an incentive to pay more.

EDIT: It looks like the 60kwh model came out/was planned after the 75 kwh model, so what I said above doesn't apply.

 

[Kuroi Gogeta]

https://electrek.co/2017/09/09/tesl...es-for-free-in-florida-escape-hurricane-irma/

This is a great gesture and all but it brought to light that Tesla is basically offering on disk DLC for cars. Being a fan of Tesla, this is quite shocking and really sours me on their brand knowing that they are doing this.

 

[Jebusman]

They aren't doing that though. If they put a 75 kwh battery into a cheaper car, then it's already factored into the price of the cheaper car. They are putting the full capacity behind a paywall as an incentive to pay more.

That's not how this works.

You start with the full model car, let's use $50000 as an example price. This is the 75kwh model.

How about I sell you this car, for only $45000, but we softlock it to 60. If you really want the 75khw in the future, you can pay up the rest of the $5000.

That's how it worked. Rather than eat the cost of manufacturing two separate classes of batteries, they just made the one, and softlocked some to sell at a lower margin. Tesla eats into their own profit doing it this way.

If you, the customer, can live with the 60khw, Tesla actually made less money selling you a car than they would have selling someone that same car but unlocked to 75khw.

And if you eventually do decide to upgrade to the 75khw, you are just making up what remained of the original cost of the 75khw car.

 

[NeOak]

They aren't doing that though. If they put a 75 kwh battery into a cheaper car, then it's already factored into the price of the cheaper car. They are putting the full capacity behind a paywall as an incentive to pay more.

Uh, those came a full month later after the 75D which had the full battery unlocked.

So it was basically a "cheaper" model that came out a month later.

So no, they offered the full capacity version first, then introduced a cheaper version.

 

[Ty4on]

So why not just make it a standard feature rather than gate it off?

Market segmentation

Intel AMD Nvidia and the like kinda do the same thing with their chips. You can buy plenty of Intel CPUs without hyperthreading and I'm pretty sure there's nothing technically stopping them from having it apart from Intel disabling that piece. Cores and stuff are also disabled and sometimes there are ways of unlocking them, but it's a little more complicated. It's cheaper than building a specific part for that price segment and profits are high enough.

They can also run the battery more efficiently with a higher reserve capacity.

 

[collige]

I dont get what you are all complaining about. People got a literal cheaper vehicle upfront. If under normal circumstances they didn't actually need the full range, it makes complete sense to take the discount and save on the extra range. Then if you decided you needed a better range at a later date you would still be able to unlock said range by essentially paying the top off value that you would have initially paid upfront.

Cheaper is relative. If you look at this from the perspective of buyers of the 75 kWh version, they're paying more for the exact same hardware as 60 kWh owners

 

[Volimar]

I dont get what you are all complaining about. People got a literal cheaper vehicle upfront. If under normal circumstances they didn't actually need the full range, it makes complete sense to take the discount and save on the extra range. Then if you decided you needed a better range at a later date you would still be able to unlock said range by essentially paying the top off value that you would have initially paid upfront.

Exactly.

 

[Ether_Snake]

They aren't doing that though. If they put a 75 kwh battery into a cheaper car, then it's already factored into the price of the cheaper car. They are putting the full capacity behind a paywall as an incentive to pay more.

So? People who pay more are subsidizing those who don't. Progressive.

 

[killer rin]

They aren't doing that though. If they put a 75 kwh battery into a cheaper car, then it's already factored into the price of the cheaper car. They are putting the full capacity behind a paywall as an incentive to pay more.

No, what happened was Tesla wanted multiple versions of the vehicle in order to offer a cheaper variant. But the math ultimately worked out to both versions costing about the same amount. So they decided to save the cost of holding two different production lines for the same vehicle in favour of having one and instead using cheaper software to get the performance they wanted out of two lines at once.

You buy a 60kWh software limited car for $20k with a $5k unlock option
You buy a 75kWh car for $25k

Cheaper is relative. If you look at this from the perspective of buyers of the 75 kWh version, they're paying more for the exact same hardware as 60 kWh owners

Except it's not the hardware that matters here, its the performance. The car is exactly the same. The 75 kWh owner doesn't give a shit that the 60KWh person has the exact same vehicle from a hardware perspective at a cheaper price, they care that they go further than the 60kWh person because they paid the full price for it

 

[Swass]

That's not how this works.

You start with the full model car, let's use $50000 as an example price. This is the 75kwh model.

How about I sell you this car, for only $45000, but we softlock it to 60. If you really want the 75khw in the future, you can pay up the rest of the $5000.

That's how it worked. Rather than eat the cost of manufacturing two separate classes of batteries, they just made the one, and softlocked some to sell at a lower margin.

In your model the price is actually $45000 and they are gouging the people who want long range an additional $5000. No way are they taking a loss on materials because they are kind hearted and want to offer people an affordable option.

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

What was the preorder bonus?

 

[HeartlessNobody213]

Yeah it sucks but it's been known they did this for a while.

 

[Alienous]

That's weird.

Software to artificially limit the functionality of a car component, so as to match how much a person is paying for it, despite the hardware price not changing.

It's not 'wrong', just bizarre.

 

[Ether_Snake]

In your model the price is actually $45000 and they are gouging the people who want long range an additional $5000. No way are they taking a loss on materials because they are kind hearted and want to offer people an affordable option.

NO.

On what basis can you claim that Tesla COULD afford selling all the cars at the lower price and still offer the same car?

You think all the food you pay for in a restaurant, or the clothes, are all priced based on their respective production costs?

 

[NeOak]

In your model the price is actually $45000 and they are gouging the people who want long range an additional $5000. No way are they taking a loss on materials because they are kind hearted and want to offer people an affordable option.

Your idea would work had they offered the 75 kWh model later. But they offered the 60 kWh a month after as a cheaper option compared to the 75 kWh one.

 

[Bsigg12]

DLC for cars. Wow.

Ludicrous Mode and Autopilot are app purchases too. It's great.

 

[doctordoak]

That's not how this works.

You start with the full model car, let's use $50000 as an example price. This is the 75kwh model.

How about I sell you this car, for only $45000, but we softlock it to 60. If you really want the 75khw in the future, you can pay up the rest of the $5000.

That's how it worked. Rather than eat the cost of manufacturing two separate classes of batteries, they just made the one, and softlocked some to sell at a lower margin. Tesla eats into their own profit doing it this way.

If you, the customer, can live with the 60khw, Tesla actually made less money selling you a car than they would have selling someone that same car but unlocked to 75khw.

And if you eventually do decide to upgrade to the 75khw, you are just making up what remained of the original cost of the 75khw car.

Yep, this is how it works; I have one, it's great

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Software limiting a car for paid unlocks later...

I mean, I read the reasoning, and I can understand it, but fuck that shit.

That sours on me on Tesla a lot.

 

[GreenMonkey]

Market segmentation

Intel AMD Nvidia and the like kinda do the same thing with their chips. You can buy plenty of Intel CPUs without hyperthreading and I'm pretty sure there's nothing technically stopping them from having it apart from Intel disabling that piece. Cores and stuff are also disabled and sometimes there are ways of unlocking them, but it's a little more complicated. It's cheaper than building a specific part for that price segment and profits are high enough.

They can also run the battery more efficiently with a higher reserve capacity.

There's an argument that the binned / locked cores maybe didn't pass quality control tests at stock voltage (a lot of times unlocking cores means more voltage and more cooling) but that probably isn't true some of the time.

It might be warranty related also. If they sell you a certain capacity /range, they have to support replacement if they fail. By having a bunch of software disabled cells, they have more wiggle room for failure (kind of like flash memory/SSD and their extra sectors available to compensate for some gradual failure). Probably the lower capacity is a lot easier to guarantee to work, because they have more room for failure of some of the capacity.

 

[Fat4all]

so its a 60 dollar game with multiplayer and singleplayer, but if you just want the singleplayer you can pay 50 dollars and pay 10 dollars later if you want to unlock the multiplayer

 

[Earthbound64]

"On disc DLC for cars"

Seriously.

 

[Volimar]

Yeah it sucks but it's been known they did this for a while.

How does it suck? Who is losing out in this situation?

The people who pay more and get 100% of their battery?

The people who agree to pay less for less range with the option to pay the rest and get 100% of their battery?

Both are getting what they pay for. There's no trick here.